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Old 10-29-2016, 07:24 AM   #31
Ashandra

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Is this it or more class changes to come ?.
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Old 10-29-2016, 08:55 AM   #32
Mark John

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'None of the class balance changes will be going in until later next week.' was posted by Caith on Friday, 14 Oct.

It is a week past the 'next week', however, beta schedules/dates should not be written in stone, so we will see.
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Old 10-29-2016, 11:27 AM   #33
Arieva

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See my thread appropriately titled for my opinion on the troub jesters cap change ><
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Old 10-29-2016, 12:46 PM   #34
Erevis Cale

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In regards to the inquisitor Deny skill change... it does less because it makes the mob itself lower the chance of bleedthru, which helps your whole raid. Templar's Reverence is one person, so obviously (to me.) it will do more. because it is less useful.

I thought about putting a ranty *****fest here about inquisitors and how they are still basically useless, but I wont, because clearly it doesn't matter anymore. Inquisitors, at this point, will always be the worst healers you can possibly invite to a group/raid.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:08 PM   #35
verdi

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.I play Inqui since years. You know, as a raider, it is very unpleasant to read that. I really hope that masquerade regarding Inqui and class balance will find an intelligent compromise.
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:49 PM   #36
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Tried making a new thread regarding assassin's prestige conversions but its not getting much attention. What kind of prestige conversions is everyone seeing? Assassin's are Left Side 24cb.->1pot (whopping 125pot at cap) and Right Side is 24pot->1cb. Right side is the ideal conversion, but the only problem is that the right side is so terribly bad for any sort of situation where even the slightest amount of lag comes into play. Concealment is just bad and impossibly to even get a half of a FF chain off during raid lag so the vast majority of assassins (the whole two or three that are decent at least) use either Left Side or a dual spec.

My suggestion in the other thread was to either make both sides give the 24pot->1cb conversion, fix concealment and make it work like In Plain Sight, or scrap the penalty for using a dual prestige.


Well, i logged in today and discovered they must've changed them overnight to be 12:1 ratios, but the desired conversion is still stuck on the right side
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Old 10-29-2016, 03:51 PM   #37
Stimps

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Hrm....mage one is awkward
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Old 10-29-2016, 05:07 PM   #38
ZUES

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I found it funny to see frozen rain and frozen detonation in there. Coupled with fiery blast I've seen wizzys doing 8 billion. Without the hammer.
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Old 10-29-2016, 05:28 PM   #39
Pitta

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yea wizards are in a really good spot right now
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Old 10-29-2016, 10:26 PM   #40
Redlight

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If you gave Swashys the ability to convert their AoE abilities to single target with increased damage that would seem a pretty easy fix.
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Old 10-30-2016, 01:45 AM   #41
alpherious_Maj'dul

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i don't think that's even 100% necessary, right not saying swash can't raid is an unfair statement, will revelations take you? probably not but they're the most elitist well rounded group of players in the game with THE most serious raid schedule and entry requirements. I know plenty of swashy's that raid regularly, one our top dps in my current raid is a swashy, saying a rank 1 guild won't take you so nobody will is a bit of an overstatement. Anything that can put swash single target dps on par with a brig would be more than sufficient, the aoe to single target conversion would likely solve that, or maybe try doing some changes to the right side prestige tree to make the damage more desireable. But a swash or a brig by design should never beat a sin, or a beastlord, swash and brig are and always will be the debuff scout, with respectable damage, yeah swash single target is less than respectable atm, the best idea out there that isn't entirely unreasonable is the aoe to single target conversion with 100% damage, to give swash their aoe dominance, and a 100% single target CA damage buff is a little bit too op SOUNDING (key word) it could work out well that way as the swash single target is miserable.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:00 AM   #42
alpherious_Maj'dul

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That being said about the swash, the paladin seems to have been kinda stuck right where it's been since zerks rose to power, I wouldn't mind seeing a few more defensive buffs to the pally as they seem to be the squishiest of the 4 plate tanks ever since their heal crits were taken away. nothing major even, the SK has a buff that adds a damage reduction to Crusaders faith, and i feel a similar effect should be added to the paladin to make up for the difference in defensive abilities between the 4 plate tanks,or maybe increase the damage reduction bonus on marrs favor by another 5% or 10%. the increased hp may play out well, but i still feel like paladins are running behind again. i really miss being able to main tank on my paladin, and it seems very few people are willing to let us do that due to our defensive inferiority.
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Old 10-30-2016, 02:14 AM   #43
Agarth

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Here a suggestion about the Inquisitor class balance :

- Remove the health threshold on Prepared Defenses.

[IMG]

This small fix would give the inquistor a way to ALWAYS trigger a ward on his groupmates following the use of Interrogation.
( recast = 22.5s )

That would not be overpowered considering shaman's current healing power and/or bleeding damages into wards.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:04 AM   #44
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But, but.. then the inquy could heal better, not just make the shaman look better.. that's just crazy talk! Tongue
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:39 AM   #45
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(cross-posting from a different thread)

From an assassin's standpoint, I would like to see the following changes:

1. Increase the duration of concealment and IPS from 7 to 10 seconds to account for raid lag.
2. Increase the replicated damage of Shadow from 30% to 40-50% w/ the same duration (the ranger version of this ability is currently superior because of ethereal onslaught + aura of immolation).
3. Allow dumbfire pets in general to automatically switch to other encounter members if the primary target is killed before the spell expires naturally.
4. Modify dexterous attacks (heroic alternate advancement) to instead increase the base damage (before other modifiers) of affected abilities by 100%.
5. Add mortal blade to the list of abilities affected by dexterous attacks - the base damage of this ability is currently too low for its recast time.
6. Add a significant amount of combat art double attack to KA equipment - if you want scouts to gear like mages, make us fight like them.
7. Improve the base damage of Exemplar's Caustic Poison / Hemotoxin / Vitality Breach -- this change would be beneficial for both rogues and predators. I want it to be one of the top 3-5 abilities in my ACT breakdown at all times.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:15 AM   #46
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mostly good suggestions, but doubt much of it will happen. #1 would be a great start without giving a direct boost, or change concealment to work just like IPS and give IPS another bonus. #7 would be nice, or allow them to cit like weapon procs
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Old 10-30-2016, 05:00 AM   #47
Ashandra

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Any thing else inbound with the class rebalancing or is this what it's going to be for the new expac ? Its a great looking expac let's not stuff it with half thought out class changes and a bad loot table / progression....
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Old 10-30-2016, 05:04 AM   #48
quisling

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I'm going to call our mt warden tomorrow and say:
"I have good news and bad news. They posted some balancing measures. The bad news: you didn't get anything. The good news: at least you don't get something to actively make yourself less relevant, like us clerics"
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:19 AM   #49
Bord

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You're always relevant Larc, you're the eye candy.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:58 AM   #50
alpherious_Maj'dul

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yeah as far as balancing goes....i think they most definitely did not do any actual balancing, more like "lets tip the scales super hard towards the wizzy and make everyone else generally dissatisfied" but who knows, they might add more down the road, this is still just beta and all is subject to change.
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:51 AM   #51
Diveris

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This made me laugh.. I'm a plate healer not a bard.
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:22 AM   #52
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I'm not sure why you think Wizards have come out on top here, because they have 5 lines of updates? Lets have a look at these changes.

For starters left side prestige is absolutely useless for a wizard, I'm yet to test these changes myself but I still think right side well be best for any Wizard. CB to pot conversion well why would you maybe later in the expac when reaching CB cap might be alot easier with new gear and infusion but if they add some kind of conversion for over capped CB then you really wouldn't go with this prestige line. If you go left side you lose the instant,casting of Eci and BoD as well as alot of AE dps. Left side for single target dps might be pretty decent but who is going to change spec's during a raid, surely not me.

This is something that was needed when you look at the total damage they did and compared it to lets say a Beastlord primal or a conjs EB the damage is less. Sure we have Fiery Blast that counts the damage but it is only 45.5% of that damage. Personally I would of liked to of seen Wizards fiery blast dmg increase to 100%. Another thing to consider is to get max potential from Frozen Rain or Detonation you need to be at max 150 increments and on single target fight this doesn't happen quickly. AE fights are going to up a fair amount but just how many AE raid fights are there, not many and the lag is just horrible with the ones we have. Summoners still have it over sorcerers on fights that require a lot of moving or have KB's etc their pets and dumbfires are not hindered from this they just keep pounding away regardless.

So for you that think Wizards are going to be in some great place I beg to differ, Yes is a boost but a much need boost
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:40 PM   #53
Daalilama

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K just sitting here trying to follow the logic path from the dev staff on their patch fix (Deny/Reverance for clerics reducing varrible % amounts of Bleedthrough) to their other poorly thought out "balance" fix aka Bleedthrough. While I am glad to finally see some class changes on beta this was in no way what was expected or needed....as Larc said comicly...your essentially giving clerics (btw where are the other non shaman healer changes with regards to bleedthrough so that they too can feel the love) an ability to reduce the poorly thoughtout Bleedthrough mechanic incoming on one or more players which in essence reduces the need for our non shaman heals...granted this example is an overly simplified description but lets be honest this xpac is bringing resolve and bleedthrough on a buckwild extent which means even less flexibility for healers, less margin for error on our part (ohh joy) and not much left to compensate. Your not really giving clerics let alone all non shaman heals much to work with.

TBH after seeing the selective buff to JCAP...I say selective because lets face it limiting it's new buff to only 4 classes on top of the pseudo fix to clerics ( though I pray other changes are coming...changes that actually had the healer community's imput) I'm not sure if the dev team believes a more open and well rounded set of class changes is warranted...which imo makes about as much sense as a screendoor on a submarine.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:55 PM   #54
ZUES

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Why was my comment deleted?
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:05 PM   #55
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Rather then treating symptoms maybe the devs could addess the source of the healer class problem, and that is the massive increase in heal output relative to tank max HP. Because a healer can take a tank from 1% to max in one cast, mob damage had to increase. Well it's given us the situation where a tank without either a ward or a healer chain-casting his heals is a dead tank. Wards were the shaman specialty, why should druids and clerics require them?

If they were to scale back the value on heals, they could then scale back the mob damage output. Maybe we could go back to the days when a healer could be stunned or stifled for 6 seconds and not cause a party wipe.

That's my view of it, I'm curious what other healers see as the root of the problem.
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:39 PM   #56
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Easier then trying some atrificial mechanic to hamstring the benifit heals get from stats (ie the MASSIVE potency we all have now), increasing hitpoint pools at the same rate as potency would mean those heals could have a useful ratio to hitpoint totals. Also, get away from the large number of frequent and unpredicatble hits that are at or above hitpoint totals.
Right now, the only healers who's heals actually benefit from the massive potency numbers are shaman.. because wards in excess of max hitpoints are useful.. reactives, hots and direct heals inexcess of max hitpoints are completely and utterly useless.
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Old 10-30-2016, 09:50 PM   #57
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#allow Jcap ferv on other DPS classes?

-Bl's & Summoners/Rogues
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Old 10-30-2016, 10:00 PM   #58
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As a shaman, I don't mind the bleed through mechanic. So far in the fights I have seen, they are using it in interesting ways tied to scripts, and it adds another element to the fight to do things to avoid the extra bleed through. Hopefully I will still feel the same once we lose the beta buffs and are on our own with it.

However, I don't think introducing bleed through has done anything to address the major class balance concerns of druids and clerics. I like the idea of increasing the hit point to damage ratio so that regular auto attack does not one shot players. One shots are fine for script fails, which shaman can't ward through either.

I don't want to return to the tov days when hit points were huge compared to wards and the wards would fail the second they were applied, but hopefully there can be a balancing point where players can survive long enough for druids and clerics to heal the damage from auto attacks, and wards still remain effective.
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Old 10-30-2016, 11:01 PM   #59
Stimps

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made a separate thread but I'll post here too

anyone else confirm ?


Some testing on a necro from new Upbeat Changes

Original Dot (no AA's /dbl cast/buffs)

4 - ticks

Original Dot + Accelerated Decay (Adds 2 ticks)

6 - ticks (correct)

Original Dot + Accelerated Decay + Upbeat Tempo (with new 3 tick tooltip)

8- Ticks (missing a tick)


Original Dot + Accelerated Decay + Upbeat + Ancient Fury (Adds 2 but Doesnt stack with UT/TC)

8 - Ticks (Correct if not stacking and overriding UT)




****Can we get a look at this? I enjoy the idea that we are getting another dot tick out of UT but it needs to stack correctly. Also I think it is time we remove or bring that dragon tree in line with the new UT changes so we aren't effectively gimping an AA tree due to having a class present. It was equal, let's keep it that way or change the ability.
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Old 10-31-2016, 02:02 AM   #60
Orthogonal

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UT and ancient Fury never stacked. Allowing them to stack now with the new UT buff would probably make the dot classes a lil bit OP.
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