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Old 10-22-2012, 06:53 PM   #1
Kreton

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Wraithwall- Only wards damage that would lower the target's health to below 20%.This might have sounded good when it was created, but it's ridiculously bad.  It's not often someone would go below 20%, and usually when they do it's from all those procs that bypass wards, and in which case this would be useless (and usually if someone is 20% from that, then the next hit they are gonna die regardless of how many wards they have because of the massive proc that bypasses wards).  Wards just aren't the end-all deathsaves they use to be with unwardable damage hitting people for 40% of their hitpoints at times.  The majority of the time wards dont even get used up before you can refresh them, that it makes this 20% health requirement even more useless.Dominated Restoration - Wraithwell will heal the target when the ward is activated.That would be fine if this wasn't a rare thing that this would ever be used.Wraith Howl - The first time Wraithwall absorbs damage, the target will gain an limited trigger damage proc.Really useless since, again, this wont proc as much to ever be worth it.  The damage would have to be super amazing with the rate this will trigger.Soultemper - Wraithwall will increase the target's physical mitigation.Ok I guess depending on how much mit it adds.  It likely would only benefit those low on the mit curve, though, so I don't see me getting it.  And this is assuming it's always up and not activated by the requirement that someone takes damage that would take them below 20% health (if that is the case, then definately useless).  Would rather see a damage reduction than a mit increase.Spiritual Sacrifice - When a group member dies: Clears Carrion Warding and Cannibalize reuse, Halves Carrion Warding cast time, Cannabilize is instant cast, Dispels 127 levels of hostile effects off group. Can only be triggered once every 90s.You could remove the restriction to trigger once every 90s and this would still be near worthless.  It's another one, like Wraithwall, that will rarely proc.  Requiring someone to die, and all you are doing is refreshing the recast of 2 things with already low recasts that are nearly always up.  The entire left side is expecting your group to die or be near death to even proc, which is rare, and none of it really helps all that much considering so much now just bypasses wards.  Why would I want to waste a prestige in something to help a tiny bit in the rare case someone dies?  Someone just died and there is a 90s restriction on it, you would think it would be do something at least somewhat amazing to help the group.Spiritual Dominion - Grants the group a chance to trigger disease damage over time using CA's or hostile spells.With how bad the "healing" side is, I would have hoped the dps/utility side would actually be good and maybe give the defiler actual group utility to be worth using in a group for anything but wards.  Another group damage proc, and this one is just bad.  At least Countenance of Defiled Spirits earlier in the line is a decent damage number, but this one is 400/tick with 300 potency and that's pretty pathetic (not to mention boring since we just got something nearly similiar earlier in the SAME line, only it was much better).Ethereal Souls - Improves the damage of Spiritual DominionUnless this is like improves the damage 1000%, a waste when even 100% increase to damage is too low.Spiritarmor - Spiritual Dominion grants an additional trigger that increases potency and physical mitigation. Increases up to 10 increments.The potency proc would need to be pretty amazing to make up for how horrible the damage is.  And should be crit bonus so everyone would gain some kind of benefit.Spirit Domination - Spiritual Dominion gains an additional trigger that wards the target.This is going to have to be pretty good size ward AND decent duration to make up for the horrible damage proc.Spiritwrath - Greatly reduces the resistability of Wrath and adds a second strike.Would have to see the attributes it reduces and duration.  Considering most attributes do nothing to 99% of the mobs now (wisdom debuff? lol).  Wrath is actually divine damage, so it's odd we'd get a buff to this spell considering our own nox debuffs wont increase it's damage.  It rarely ever resists to where reducing it's resistability is a "who cares" thing.Phantasmal Barrier - Applies a small ward to the defiler's two allies with the lowest percentages (10s duration).A ward on two (basically random) people and it only lasts 10s.  Again we go back to all the things that bypass wards now, that that and the other ward procs people have, this will rarely get used up.  Might sound good on paper, but the duration is too small and the effect isn't even good enough to use as an emergency for people in the raid.Hastened Channeling - Lowers Ancestral Channeling's base casting time to 0.5 seconds and base reuse time to 120 seconds.The Ancestral Channeling reset (Defiled Alacrity) is the only reason I even go down the left Prestige line currently.  This isn't all that appealing unless I don't get Defiled Alacrity.  It's rare enough I can't get it to reset well before it's recast.

So given the above list, I'd have to say I'm completely underwhelmed by every prestige.  There is not one that I would be looking forward to.  The left side is just so equally bad for healing as the right side is for dps.  I can't see me ever getting anything on the left side with how little it will ever proc or be useful when you need it.  It's like they are expecting the group to die, but arent giving anything useful to deal with it.  If you are going to have procs that proc so little, they should be pretty amazing.  And a 400/tick damage proc is just ridiculously low.  Give us some better utility to the group than yet another low damage proc, or something to boost our own personal dps a decent amount.  Neither of this is accomplished.

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:15 PM   #2
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So basically what you're saying is you're passing judgment on all these AAs without even leveling to take them.

I personally look forward to the entire right line, but I probably won't be leveling my defiler until there's a buffer.

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:23 PM   #3
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So basically what you're saying is you're passing judgment on all these AAs without even leveling to take them.

I personally look forward to the entire right line, but I probably won't be leveling my defiler until there's a buffer.

Eh, I'll level up soon enough.  Of course I'll pass judgement on them now, as you have already with your last statement.  It might be helpful if you even explained why the right side is so appealing to you.

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:09 AM   #4
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Shouldnt the potency bonus be on the Healing side and the Crit Bonus be on the DPS side?  I lose a bunch of potency and my wards get smaller if I go down the healing side.  Crit Bonus only applies 50 or 30 percent to wards I forget which.

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:35 AM   #5
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Two thoughts, keeping in mind that I have not fully tested all of these.

Spiritual Sacrifice:  It's great that new mechanics are being created, but this one is not going to be very practical.  So if I'm understanding this correctly, when someone in my group dies Carrion Warding will instantly repop (if it's down) and halves the cast time for a short duration, Cannibalize will repop (if it's down), and the other people in group will be cured.  Ignoring how few cases that this ability will be useful, what is the logic behind instantly resetting Cannibalize? 

Is the idea that someone dies and the defiler (who has been for some reason spamming Cannibalize up to this point; possibly why the group member died in the first place), is excited that they can Cannibalize again instantly?  This entire AA seems like a placeholder for something better.  Is it supposed to have a deathsave built in somewhere?  I'm extremely confused as to the point behind this AA's design, beyond showcasing some sort of buff-group-on-death mechanic.

Spiritwrath:  One question--why Wrath?  Why not one of our class spells?  Imprecate would've been a better choice, I think.  Reducing the resistability also seems kind of random.  Was Wrath notoriously resistable or something?

Again, the above is just at-a-glance feedback.  I'm saving most of my thoughts for after I've been able to sit down and test them all fully.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:28 AM   #6
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:02 PM   #7
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So after testing this some:

Spiritwraith -  This debuffs str/agi/wis/int by 20 for 12s.  This is a pretty weak debuff.  And as mentioned before, why are we getting a prestige to the newbie divine damage priest nuke?  This is an "endline" and is a really horrible one.

Spiritual Dominion - Even with 3 points into increasing it's damage (Ethereal Souls), it's still doing a pathetic 20k total over it's 4 ticks.  Chaos Essence does 3x that total amount in just one hit, and you dont have to waste 3 points into a prestige to increase it's damage.  And without Ethereal Souls, it parses even worse.

Spiritarmor - With 3 points into this, something is bugged about it's proc rate.  It barely procs, and while it says it can stack to 10, I can't seem to get it to stack multiple times but I think it may have something to do with it's proc rate.  The potency still needs to be changed to crit bonus.  Also I'm not impressed at all on the physical mit component on this, considering it affects people differently and the better geared you have the less effective it is (and almost noneffective on plate wearers).

Spiritual Domination - The ward is lower than the Shaman AA Spiritual Leadership, and parses much less.  Since the ward doesn't stack with itself, it should be much higher.

Phantasmal Barrier - This duration is still way too low for a seemingly random ward.  If everyone is full health, it seems to always go to the same 2 people in the raid.  Make this also apply a ward to your target too if you are going to keep this ridiculously low duration on the ward.  And for the duration, it should have a heal attached to it seeing how wards won't help these low health people being hit by unwardable damage.

Wraithwall - Still a very ridiculous prestige.  The biggest threat to someone in a defiler's group taking 80% of their hitpoints (rare) or is that low in health, is the unwardable stuff like procs of 40k damage on melee hits.  It's not a problem to get wards up on someone that low, but getting their health up fast has to be done.  Which means even when this procs, it's primarily going to be wasted as it is.  The frequency in which this happens is so low that this prestige is a giant waste 99% of the time.  The cast time is also way too long for a spell that wont proc a majority of the time.

Dominated Restoration - Even at 3 ranks, this would only heal a max of 27k for me.  That is very low considering the primary reason to even have it is to help prevent unwardable hits from killing the person.  The rate at which this will, again, is so low though because of the primary skill rarely, if ever, going off.

Wraith Howl - This becomes 5 procs ~5k damage, but it rarely ever proc'd.  The 20% health requirement just makes this a complete waste.  It will add very little to no dps for anyone.

Soultemper - This only adding physical mit, which is less effective the higher the person's gear/mit, is pretty meaningless.  While this is the one ability not required to trigger the 20% health requirement, it still doesn't add much at all, and pretty much nothing to plate tanks.  It needs something different to it.

Spiritual Sacrifice - Not useful at all.  Most of the time this even proc'd my recasts were up for both canni (well it was always up) and my group ward as it is.  The cure aspect was irrelevant and the 90s timer is just even silly with how weak the effect is.  This should be a preventative measure to death not some silly snaps of recasts of something that will likely be up anyways when someone DIES.  A proc on something when someone dies needs to be amazing not completely irrelevant and mediocre.  This just simply wont help if something is going down in the group to where someone has died.

Hastened Channeling - With the recast snap earlier on in the prestiges, this should do something different or at least knock the recast down to 90s.  This would more like be one you get if you didn't get the recast snap, but it's subpar to the recast snap.

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:47 AM   #8
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agreed 

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Old 10-25-2012, 11:50 AM   #9
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I think the biggest issue facing defilers is the question, "why should we use a defiler when we can use a mystic?"  Mystics heal nearly as good as defilers, dps significantly better than defilers and bring tons of utilty to the raid (stampede, bolster anyone?)

In order for defilers to compete we need to do something better than our shammy brothers.  The obvious answer would be to say lets give defilers greater healing power.  Maybe another group ward or something.  But the current raid content (even in POW) doesn't really require additional healing than what a defiler already brings.  Its the same issue that faced templars, raid mobs don't require so much healing that there is a detriment to bringing a mystic over a defiler. 

The next possibilty would be to increase the defiler's dps.  Now this could be possible. Make it so that defilers continue to excel in the AE dps arena.  Another blue ae (maybe with significant debuffs attached) would be cool.  The new prestige that adds an extra strike to wrath has promise (though as others said it should probably be imprecate or another defiler specific ability).  But I think you could take it even a step further.  What about make it like the warlock's flames of velious enhancement.  Give it an additional strike at every 25% increment of the mobs health.  For example 1 extra hit after the mob hits 75%, 2 after 50% and 3 extra hits (4 in total) for the final 25%.  You could also tag additional debuffs to each strike so flavorwise the defiler is sucking the soul out of the mob the closer it is to death.  Another way to boost defilers dps is to give them an additional 20% SDA on their self wisdom buff (can't recall the name). 

The final (and I would say best way to help defilers) would be to increase their utility.  Here are some of my thoughts:

1.  Bring back deadly bane warding as a prestige effect.  I see alot of other classes getting procs or what not that attribute the damage to themselves.  Would be cool to have an effect like this that attributes the damage back to the defiler (though pre-warding may require a tank to be more careful on pulls so the defiler doesn't go splat by the initial agro build).

2.  Give us some kind of stoneskin or 100% Damage immunity for like 5 seconds.  Defilers are typically in the maintank group.  Give defilers a save on a base 5 minute timer so it gives the defiler a chance to help out with a face melting ae on the tank here and there.  To make it different from other blocks, it could be for the whole group.  Its not often enough that it infringes on other healers but gives a bit of extra flexibility for those "oh crap everything is down aes"  Its also has a short duration so it would test the skill and timing of the defiler to use properly.

3.  Add some effects to ROA.  I am thinking, a decent boost of CB and on any hit, the person hitting the mob will get a chance to proce a ward. 

4.  Make Harbringer groupwide.  Gives the group more hps and a ward (assuming the defiler takes the focus).

5.  Have a prestige that turns spiritual circle into a true regenerating AE ward.  Make it affect up to 12 people closest to the defiler with a max range of like 30m.  Alternatively, you could keep spiritual circle as it is, but make it immune to ae and give the whole raid CB and Potency while its up.

6.  Have an ability that is kind of like RO/VC that monitors the amount of damage that is warded over a 10s time period then at the conclusion it automatically gives the group a damage proc based on that amount of damage.

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Old 10-25-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

I think the biggest issue facing defilers is the question, "why should we use a defiler when we can use a mystic?"  Mystics heal nearly as good as defilers, dps significantly better than defilers and bring tons of utilty to the raid (stampede, bolster anyone?)

In order for defilers to compete we need to do something better than our shammy brothers.  The obvious answer would be to say lets give defilers greater healing power.  Maybe another group ward or something.  But the current raid content (even in POW) doesn't really require additional healing than what a defiler already brings.  Its the same issue that faced templars, raid mobs don't require so much healing that there is a detriment to bringing a mystic over a defiler. 

The next possibilty would be to increase the defiler's dps.  Now this could be possible. Make it so that defilers continue to excel in the AE dps arena.  Another blue ae (maybe with significant debuffs attached) would be cool.  The new prestige that adds an extra strike to wrath has promise (though as others said it should probably be imprecate or another defiler specific ability).  But I think you could take it even a step further.  What about make it like the warlock's flames of velious enhancement.  Give it an additional strike at every 25% increment of the mobs health.  For example 1 extra hit after the mob hits 75%, 2 after 50% and 3 extra hits (4 in total) for the final 25%.  You could also tag additional debuffs to each strike so flavorwise the defiler is sucking the soul out of the mob the closer it is to death.  Another way to boost defilers dps is to give them an additional 20% SDA on their self wisdom buff (can't recall the name). 

The final (and I would say best way to help defilers) would be to increase their utility.  Here are some of my thoughts:

1.  Bring back deadly bane warding as a prestige effect.  I see alot of other classes getting procs or what not that attribute the damage to themselves.  Would be cool to have an effect like this that attributes the damage back to the defiler (though pre-warding may require a tank to be more careful on pulls so the defiler doesn't go splat by the initial agro build).

2.  Give us some kind of stoneskin or 100% Damage immunity for like 5 seconds.  Defilers are typically in the maintank group.  Give defilers a save on a base 5 minute timer so it gives the defiler a chance to help out with a face melting ae on the tank here and there.  To make it different from other blocks, it could be for the whole group.  Its not often enough that it infringes on other healers but gives a bit of extra flexibility for those "oh crap everything is down aes"  Its also has a short duration so it would test the skill and timing of the defiler to use properly.

3.  Add some effects to ROA.  I am thinking, a decent boost of CB and on any hit, the person hitting the mob will get a chance to proce a ward. 

4.  Make Harbringer groupwide.  Gives the group more hps and a ward (assuming the defiler takes the focus).

5.  Have a prestige that turns spiritual circle into a true regenerating AE ward.  Make it affect up to 12 people closest to the defiler with a max range of like 30m.  Alternatively, you could keep spiritual circle as it is, but make it immune to ae and give the whole raid CB and Potency while its up.

6.  Have an ability that is kind of like RO/VC that monitors the amount of damage that is warded over a 10s time period then at the conclusion it automatically gives the group a damage proc based on that amount of damage.

Some nice ideas there.

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Old 10-25-2012, 12:37 PM   #11
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I'd be down for a group 50% damage reduction w/ 5s duration and 5m recast.

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:27 PM   #12
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I'd be down for a group 50% damage reduction w/ 5s duration and 5m recast.

I like buffrats idea.  And the previous ideas are good as well.  As far as needed more heals being needed on the Defiler as vs. the Mystic, I agree.  Even on my Inqy I am able to solo heal a tank trading agro on Eriak in PoW.  There is only 4 things that I may require some temporary help with on Red texts or strong AEs on the tank:

1.  Death Prevent

2.  Stoneskin-Damage Prevention

3.  Damage Reduction

4.  Hit point Increase.

I can do #4 on my Inqy and #1 for non-tanks, if needed on a fight a Warden is great for #1 and # 2, and the Mystic can do #4 as well.  Most Tanks now can ussually do #3.  I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the defiler currently CAN NOT DO ANY of the above.  Which puts them at a major disadvatage. 

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #13
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I'd be down for a group 50% damage reduction w/ 5s duration and 5m recast.

As Defilers are supposed to be the "defensive" shaman, it would make sense to give defilers some more meaningful death preventions. So far, the trend has been to pile preventions on Templars... So the argument for such an ability being given to defilers, and being on a 2-3 minute base reuse, can easily be made.Right now, defilers have very little to show for being the "defensive" shaman. Encounter design is starting to habitually incorporate unwardable damage components, so defilers can definitely use a little bit of love.

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:25 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

Right now, defilers have very little to show for being the "defensive" shaman. Encounter design is starting to habitually incorporate unwardable damage components, so defilers can definitely use a little bit of love.

This is so true.  Wards are not the end all death save anymore because of all of this unwardable damage now that is being put into every encounter.  If they aren't going to offer viable (and wanted) utility and dps over other healers, then their defensive and healing abilities should be far superior, and it should fit the mechanics of the game today.

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Old 10-27-2012, 10:15 AM   #15
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srsly? the only worth prestige point  is now a dps "buff" for our wards? 

double conversion is the way to go until  some serious changes

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Old 10-27-2012, 01:33 PM   #16
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barus wrote:

srsly? the only worth prestige point  is now a dps "buff" for our wards? 

double conversion is the way to go until  some serious changes

It's a post-nerf deadly bane warding (and this one is a worse proc rate), which itself was great until they made it unable to proc but once a second, at which point it became a meaningless buff.  This one is even worse at a once every 5s rate (which the patch notes said 2.5s, but in game it is 5s).  This kind of limitation also makes it unable to proc but once on multiple mob fights, only proc'ing on the one mob who hits first every 5s, while not doing anything to the other X number of mobs doing damage.  And add to the fact multiple mobs are likely to just dispel wards faster, the fact it is noneffective against them makes it worse.  When deadly bane warding was asked for by someone, I seriously don't think it was the post-nerf, proc limitation, version.

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Old 10-27-2012, 11:31 PM   #17
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barus wrote:

srsly? the only worth prestige point  is now a dps "buff" for our wards? 

double conversion is the way to go until  some serious changes

 Except that you can't take double conversions--as soon as you spend a point in Death Cries or Countence of Defiled Spirits, the other tree gets locked out after the 1st row.  You're pretty much stuck with the tree you're in, 1st row and the middle two mastery abilities.

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:37 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

barus wrote:

srsly? the only worth prestige point  is now a dps "buff" for our wards? 

double conversion is the way to go until  some serious changes

 Except that you can't take double conversions--as soon as you spend a point in Death Cries or Countence of Defiled Spirits, the other tree gets locked out after the 1st row.  You're pretty much stuck with the tree you're in, 1st row and the middle two mastery abilities.

You can get both lines if you put 12 points into the first row.  Sadly, getting both CB and Pot conversions pretty much is the best choice with these CoE prestiges.

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Old 10-28-2012, 01:45 AM   #19
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Kreton wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

barus wrote:

srsly? the only worth prestige point  is now a dps "buff" for our wards? 

double conversion is the way to go until  some serious changes

 Except that you can't take double conversions--as soon as you spend a point in Death Cries or Countence of Defiled Spirits, the other tree gets locked out after the 1st row.  You're pretty much stuck with the tree you're in, 1st row and the middle two mastery abilities.

You can get both lines if you put 12 points into the first row.  Sadly, getting both CB and Pot conversions pretty much is the best choice with these CoE prestiges.

Ohhh, I understand now.  Yeah, I'm more or less agreeing with that assessment.  Unless these get tweaked...  

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Old 10-28-2012, 02:52 AM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

Right now, defilers have very little to show for being the "defensive" shaman. Encounter design is starting to habitually incorporate unwardable damage components, so defilers can definitely use a little bit of love.

So, the unwardable damage seems to be thrown in to keep active heals needed on a tank.  As the defensive shaman, the defiler actually does have several benefits over their offensive counterpart: extra damage reduction, higher spike damage prevention (as opposed to the ward-over-time nature of mystics), slightly more effective death prevent, more stability on power intensive fights (which seem to be extremely numerous, especially when running with only 1-2 coercers in raid) and last but definitely not least, the added frontloaded heal on ST and group wards, which is great for helping with the unwardable damage.

With that said, it sounds like Wraithwall is intended to be another raid MT healer oriented ability.  It is basically another line of defense for a DT or AE.  Wraithwall seems to be an extra ST ward (with slightly more strength than our current primary ST ward) that is reserved for DT's (or some other, less common situations).

As a raid tank healer, this sounds extremely useful, considering it should be up for every DT and AE hit.

Whether it is actually going to keep your tank alive more than the extra potency you'd be missing out on, is still tbd though...seems like both shaman are unhappy with their new prestige points

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Old 10-28-2012, 09:08 AM   #21
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Hene wrote:

As a raid tank healer, this sounds extremely useful, considering it should be up for every DT and AE hit.

That's a bit of an overstatement calling it extremely useful.  It's something that would rarely be effective or used up.  Since DT's bypass wards, any wards that were up before are going to be up after (plus deathward which gets cast right as it is hitting).  This is assuming the tank has enough damage reduction to survive the DT so he lives.  But these same fights with those DT's have the 100% melee procs that make having him fully warded irrelevant when he'd die to the next melee hit anyways if he isn't put back in green health.  Even the heal you can get on wraithwall wont do that, and that's assuming it would even trigger on unwardable damage.  AC reset is by far the best way of even dealing with it as you can pretty much get it up for every DT.  In fact it's the heals, not the wards, I worry about on them because it's rarely ever a case where I can't get the tank stacked with wards as it is.  The same goes for AE's.

So I don't see this ever being worth taking for the remote chance it might actually help, when the conversion Prestige's will be far more effective all the time than this is.

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Old 10-28-2012, 11:02 AM   #22
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Kreton wrote:

Hene wrote:

As a raid tank healer, this sounds extremely useful, considering it should be up for every DT and AE hit.

That's a bit of an overstatement calling it extremely useful.  It's something that would rarely be effective or used up.  Since DT's bypass wards, any wards that were up before are going to be up after (plus deathward which gets cast right as it is hitting).  This is assuming the tank has enough damage reduction to survive the DT so he lives.  But these same fights with those DT's have the 100% melee procs that make having him fully warded irrelevant when he'd die to the next melee hit anyways if he isn't put back in green health.  Even the heal you can get on wraithwall wont do that, and that's assuming it would even trigger on unwardable damage.  AC reset is by far the best way of even dealing with it as you can pretty much get it up for every DT.  In fact it's the heals, not the wards, I worry about on them because it's rarely ever a case where I can't get the tank stacked with wards as it is.  The same goes for AE's.

So I don't see this ever being worth taking for the remote chance it might actually help, when the conversion Prestige's will be far more effective all the time than this is.

++++

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:17 PM   #23
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Kreton wrote:

Hene wrote:

As a raid tank healer, this sounds extremely useful, considering it should be up for every DT and AE hit.

That's a bit of an overstatement calling it extremely useful.  It's something that would rarely be effective or used up.  Since DT's bypass wards, any wards that were up before are going to be up after (plus deathward which gets cast right as it is hitting).  This is assuming the tank has enough damage reduction to survive the DT so he lives.  But these same fights with those DT's have the 100% melee procs that make having him fully warded irrelevant when he'd die to the next melee hit anyways if he isn't put back in green health.  Even the heal you can get on wraithwall wont do that, and that's assuming it would even trigger on unwardable damage.  AC reset is by far the best way of even dealing with it as you can pretty much get it up for every DT.  In fact it's the heals, not the wards, I worry about on them because it's rarely ever a case where I can't get the tank stacked with wards as it is.  The same goes for AE's.

So I don't see this ever being worth taking for the remote chance it might actually help, when the conversion Prestige's will be far more effective all the time than this is.

Exactly.I am going to hazard a guess, that Hene is not a Defiler, and/or does not play a MT defiler. That, or he has completely different ideas as to what would be "extremely useful" than I do.

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #24
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Kreton wrote:

That's a bit of an overstatement calling it extremely useful.  It's something that would rarely be effective or used up.  Since DT's bypass wards, any wards that were up before are going to be up after (plus deathward which gets cast right as it is hitting).  This is assuming the tank has enough damage reduction to survive the DT so he lives.  But these same fights with those DT's have the 100% melee procs that make having him fully warded irrelevant when he'd die to the next melee hit anyways if he isn't put back in green health.  Even the heal you can get on wraithwall wont do that, and that's assuming it would even trigger on unwardable damage.  AC reset is by far the best way of even dealing with it as you can pretty much get it up for every DT.  In fact it's the heals, not the wards, I worry about on them because it's rarely ever a case where I can't get the tank stacked with wards as it is.  The same goes for AE's.

So I don't see this ever being worth taking for the remote chance it might actually help, when the conversion Prestige's will be far more effective all the time than this is.

Alright, "extremely useful" was an overstatement, I just meant "useful." SMILEY

Not sure where you got this idea that all DT's bypass wards (which they don't), but also for most AEs this would be useful.  A lot of AEs hit the tank for 100-200k if not blocked, and sometimes 150k of wards is hard to come up with last minute, so adding another 50k buffer could be very valuable for a tank that doesn't have enough stoneskins to get the DIs as well as the AEs, or if the stoneskins are down.

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Exactly.I am going to hazard a guess, that Hene is not a Defiler, and/or does not play a MT defiler. That, or he has completely different ideas as to what would be "extremely useful" than I do.

And btw, I play defiler, inquis and mystic in raids, in MT group and OT group.

I do agree that the unwardable damage aspect though, that does hurt the viability of this prestige, because at that point you really need a substantial heal added in order to make sure the tank doesn't die on the next unwardable hit anyway.

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Old 10-28-2012, 02:53 PM   #25
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Hene wrote:

Alright, "extremely useful" was an overstatement, I just meant "useful."

Not sure where you got this idea that all DT's bypass wards (which they don't), but also for most AEs this would be useful.  A lot of AEs hit the tank for 100-200k if not blocked, and sometimes 150k of wards is hard to come up with last minute, so adding another 50k buffer could be very valuable for a tank that doesn't have enough stoneskins to get the DIs as well as the AEs, or if the stoneskins are down.

Every DT in game now that matters bypasses wards.  There isn't a single DT in current mechanics that is of any consequence that doesn't.  PoW has plenty to go around, but I have yet to see one in CoE.  AE's can hit for up to 200k but there are plenty of wards to go around to stack them for that.  I never even touch Soul Ward anymore because there just isn't a need, and that one is instant cast when I want it.  This prestige is situational, at best, and is not remotely worth it over the conversions.

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #26
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Kreton wrote:

Every DT in game now that matters bypasses wards.  There isn't a single DT in current mechanics that is of any consequence that doesn't.  PoW has plenty to go around, but I have yet to see one in CoE.  AE's can hit for up to 200k but there are plenty of wards to go around to stack them for that.  I never even touch Soul Ward anymore because there just isn't a need, and that one is instant cast when I want it.  This prestige is situational, at best, and is not remotely worth it over the conversions.

Don't vyskudra, eriak and vallon all have DTs that are wardable?  maybe I was looking at the AE's

And I was thinking about having frequent AEs on a tank without a lot of stoneskins, it would be very nice to have another ST ward that was pretty much reserved for AEs, but I guess if you don't need that extra 50k of warding this prestige is gonna be useless for you.

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Old 10-28-2012, 04:12 PM   #27
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Hene wrote:

Don't vyskudra, eriak and vallon all have DTs that are wardable?  maybe I was looking at the AE's

Kulaxis' (Vallon) Warlord Siphon is not wardable.  Eriak has no deathtouch unless you mean his red AE, which is not wardable.  You are right, though, that Vyskudra's Storm Touch can be warded but the few times we've bothered to kill him, it's not been an issue.

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Old 10-28-2012, 06:27 PM   #28
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Inb4 someone spills the beans that the defiler Death Prevent has been bugged since shortly after launch and trigger unlimited amount of times for the durations, and all the other classes ST deathsaves blow in comparison.  Oh wait, I kinda just did huh? Mehbad

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Old 10-29-2012, 11:10 AM   #29
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To me, Wraithwall feels like a ward that you put on the bard/chanter/scout dps so when they get smashed by an aoe they don't die. Or you put it on yourself/the other mt healer for the same reason.

I like it.

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:20 PM   #30
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Okay, lots of feedback here. Right side seems to be boring and underpowered - got it! The only thing here is that the point of Spiritwrath is supposed to be stacking the debuff. I like the idea that you might cast the ability often early in a longer fight to get the debuff to maximum increments and then only cast it periodically for the rest of the fight to maintain it. We'll probably make some changes to emphasize that mechanic.The feedback on Wraithwall is more confusing to me. Do we agree that the lower health threshold is a benefit? Unwardable damage aside, no one will die with Wraithwall active on them. It won't be wasted on minor damage that is easily heal-able by procs, group heals, ect, so it'll always be there when you need it. As far as I can see, removing the 20% health threshold would be a nerf! The enhances definitely need some work, though.

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