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Old 07-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #1
657

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How good is the dungeon finder? I qued for a random dungeon and after 26 minutes in the que I gave up.

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Old 07-15-2012, 08:38 PM   #2
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Nobody uses it(mainly because the server populations aren't enough to supprot such a feature, especially in non-end game content and it's been refused to make it x-server), especially now with mercs. There's really no reason to group up for lower level dungeons when you can just hire a merc and duo it.

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Old 07-16-2012, 12:24 PM   #3
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no one uses them because they are "in server" groups that are formed.   i rather just form my own group in my own server.       dungeon finder is wasted effort and dev time until it goes world wide at that point it will be not only useful but greatly desired and praised in my opinion since it will allow all the different servers to pool together players to run even lower level or rarely used content.

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:41 PM   #4
Gilasil

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[email protected] wrote:

Nobody uses it(mainly because the server populations aren't enough to supprot such a feature, especially in non-end game content and it's been refused to make it x-server), especially now with mercs. There's really no reason to group up for lower level dungeons when you can just hire a merc and duo it.

Actually, that isn't entirely true.  Some people do use it on more populated servers.  I had some good fun on Freeport in DF groups.

However, the groups it produces are pretty minimal (seems to be pretty much two of anything and it'll form a group).  People rely a lot on mercs in DF groups.

I'm guessing there were major technical hurdles which would ahve to be overcome for cross server DF groups and they weren't willing to expend what could very likely have been a lot of effort to make it happen.

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:57 PM   #5
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I'm all about taking features from other games to enhance the world of EQ2 but with the current state of server populations it's probably a good thing that they let this feature be a failure. Server communties are already trying to deal with the loss of so many players, even whole guilds, why spend valuable Dev time working on a feature that would further kill any sense of community on any given server? I played the game that brought cross server dungeon finders to it's pinnacle (WoW) before the implementation and still afterwards. It completely gutted whatever unique community a server may have and overall lessened player skill on a general level. Why SoE thought it would be a good idea to try and implament something like this is unknown but I'm glad they have stopped trying to persue it.

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Old 10-19-2012, 03:41 AM   #6
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I think EQ2 is one of the best mmos out there, lots of content, lots of charater developement and fun raiding.

Sadly SoE seem to hamstring this game every year with little or no advertising, no box releases of expansions (in Australia) and badly implemented add ons borrowed from other games ... like Dungeon Finder.

How could anyone on the testing team thought what was release was in any way good?

Low server pops (i feel mostly due to SoE's really bad marking) has lead to low player pools for grouping in general. I know it is easier to get a group at max level but there is pleanty of lower level stuff that is fun to play...not just duo with a merc.

If you make a game like this with lots of lower level content you need to make it easier for players to play it how it was designed, for groups!

DF is in wow and rift, are both very similar..why is eq2 so different?

This is what the players all know it needs;

1. Cross Server player pool.

2. Do not suck people into dungeon until group is full.

3. Gear score/stat min check or progression flag for hard dungeons.

4. Fill groups with typical class stereo types, ie tank, healer, dps.

5. When dungeons finish, players should be ported back to where ever they were when they entered.

Seems simple to me, do these things or just scrap the whole thing and focus on doing something else that is constructive.

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:35 AM   #7
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All the comments about "no one uses it because server population is low" are dead wrong. People used Dungeon Finder heavily for about a week on most servers. The problem was that sometimes you got a group, and sometimes you got a bunch of doofus-heads.

For example, on one run, our tank said, AFK. And never came back, ever.  On another we had healers that thought curing was a waste of time. Oh, and there was the fury who said she was pure DPS and wouldn't heal/cure. We also got tanks dressed in toilet tissue.  And the mystic who wouldn't cure because "cures take too much power". And the tank who wouldn't taunt, and after being screamed at by the groupdid an EMOTE TAUNT: since the taunt spells did no damage, he never used them. Grouping snobbery has always been an issue. It can be tough to put together a regular pick-up group because no one wants to run a zone with people like the ones I just mentioned.

With Dungeon Finder, people would sign up for a group, wait long enough to see what kind of players they'd get, then drop the group if it had sup-par group composition (whatever that means, it's subjective by player).  It's true, for a group to be fun, the tank has to be well-enough equipped to survive the zone, the healer has to both cure and heal, and if you have that, the rest of the group can be anybody pretty much.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:19 PM   #8
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And let me echo a couple more things that have been mentioned repeatedly.. Composition and complimentary skill matching was really poor.

I am not sure why because I have never and will never see the code behind it, but I suspect if we were to look back at the legacy LFG tool, it shows both primary and secondary skills of classes. What I suspect was happening, is that secondary skills were given too much weight, and you could end up with classes that have a heal of sorts, but arent really a healing class, or scouts that at one time could 'tank' as a secondary skill (I think this was a rogue: brig/swash thing), who would be matched as a tank.

The resulting composition would be a complete mess. Even before ya looked at relative gear or perceived skill. Perhaps its better with BG matching now.. I don't do that, so I dont know.

The second issue that Sigr talked about, being skill and equipment which goes hand in hand somewhat. 

Overskilled players can to a degree make up for lack of gear.  Overgeared players can somewhat make up for a lack of skill.  A prevailing sentiment was to calculate gear scores for everyone, which just wouldnt work in the end, as it more than likely could be gamed and people that had genuinely bad gear could fake it with the right adorns and reforging, sacrificing other critical stats that would be given less weight in a potential gear score but are still important for overall performance.  On the other side of the coin, theres a lot of players in gear that aside from being in the right place at the right time, and either knowing the right people or an inordinate amount of expendable cash (real or virtual) don't really deserve that gear, and can't fully utilize it.  In short, no real skill.

I've proposed it before, but if and when they do retune DF, gear score might be ok, if it was also paired with some factored measure of toon achievement (and to me, some basis and utlilization of the 'Achievements' proper seems obvious of cursory proof of ability).  The gear score itself shouldnt be a numeric value.  It should be a rating (plus or minus) based on the baseline gear the dungeon was designed and tested for. 

The key achievements to consider in my mind is for the current zone (have they already successfully completed it), the zones in progression leading to the zone in question (they havent successfully done the zone in question, but did what was expected up to that point), and perhaps in a small consideration, as perhaps a completely seperate tertiary factor, length of time the character has been at level (or something to that effect, so nearly brand new at level players of that particular class are given the proper consideration, and if all else is passible, an upfront awareness that tricky or key spots of the zone/events will need to be pointed out fairly explicitly).

I think these are things most players wont some control over when establishing random group preferences.  And for many, myself included, am generally quite forgiving and flexible, but at times I still want the option to be a bit more picky.

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Old 10-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #9
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It's comical that it's mentioned that the reason DF is horrid is because of bad players.  Yet that is literally in every game and not developers fault.  It's the fact that a lot and I mean a ton of current MMO players, shouldn't be playing MMOs.

I'll agree with the cross server however and the fact it should check that everyone is ready before entering (something like Rift, WoW, etc.).  Sadly it does ruin a bit of the server community we already have cross server with BGs.  Not to mention if they did a meeting area sort of like they do with Champion's Respite with the Dungeon Finder, that is just pure win.  Then you could basically combine all the server communities into one just like they do with BGs currently.  On top of that allow people to queue for all dungeons at their level AND below, give some sort of bonus for randoming, you ultimately make your top end always available to help your lower end thereby always having groups flowing as well as keeping the community as a whole.

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Old 10-20-2012, 04:31 AM   #10
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Alaska wrote:

I'm all about taking features from other games to enhance the world of EQ2 but with the current state of server populations it's probably a good thing that they let this feature be a failure. Server communties are already trying to deal with the loss of so many players, even whole guilds, why spend valuable Dev time working on a feature that would further kill any sense of community on any given server? I played the game that brought cross server dungeon finders to it's pinnacle (WoW) before the implementation and still afterwards. It completely gutted whatever unique community a server may have and overall lessened player skill on a general level. Why SoE thought it would be a good idea to try and implament something like this is unknown but I'm glad they have stopped trying to persue it.

This is such a load of hogwash, who cares about "sense of community on any given server" let the world be your comunity, make friends on other servers, it's this kind of closed minded thinking that makes the game as antisocial(outside of guilds) as it is. Cross-server dungeon finder would not only liven up the comunity but promote socialism, and as an added benefit to SOE may actually promote a lot of server moves. With the game being as dead as it is, there's a lot of players sitting in dead guilds that may find their way into other guilds or even move to other servers if they had an easy way of obtaining groups so they could know other people in the first place.

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Old 10-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #11
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No one use it because there is no reward to take risk doing it with too random people.After some time on Rift i have saw even with less player the feathure was highly used, because everyone wanted the reward. Daily quest giving a raid token with what you can bough raid stuff => everyone use it even high geared raider.

What the point to give xp bonus ? it's useless for most of player who ... play, play and play again. The kind of player you can see in group, because you know what ? they play SMILEY

No wanted reward = No use.

Same for Dungeon Maker.

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