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Old 08-02-2010, 05:41 PM   #1
Lucyd
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This stuff is just way too good.  It shouldn't work in PvE at all or at least PvE'ers should be given an option to obtain gear that is just as good.  Now I'm sure someone will say, go raid and get gear that is better for PvE anyway...  But therein lies the conundrum..

I'm sure someone will say but you need crit mit for PvE and BG gear doesn't have that.  However neither does pre-raid gear either.  There are only 3 armor pieces that have any.  Instance gear doesn't have any either.  So the best option remains get your 3 armor pieces from marks and then bg for the rest of your gear.

Jumping right to raiding may or may not  be an option.   If 2 people apply for a spot in a raid guild...  One who has the 3 armor pieces with x amount of crit mit and the rest fabled bg gear and does 30k+ dps right off the bat...  the second has the 3 armor pieces and legendary gear from instances and does 15k dps...  who are you going to take?  Both have the same crit mit but one performs twice as well.

We should not have to PvP to compete in PvE.  There needs to be better options to get gear for people who only want to PvE.  Or just disable PvP gear completely in PvE.  Many of us have no interest in BG's and find them to be quite boring.

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Old 08-02-2010, 05:50 PM   #2
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Are you whining about pre-raid gear?

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Old 08-02-2010, 05:53 PM   #3
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Are you complaining that PvE is too hard for those of us who do not participate in the Battlegrounds and thus choose not to obtain the rewards from there?

Or are you complaining that others, who choose to participate and get the gear, are somehow ruining the PvE experience for the rest of us?

Because either way, I think you're wrong.

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Old 08-02-2010, 05:57 PM   #4
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Just saying that I don't think it is fair that those who only want to PvE have to have anything at all to do with PvP to compete with other players at PvE.

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Old 08-02-2010, 05:59 PM   #5
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It's not pre-raid gear, it's raid gear, the stats are just a hair under T1 raid armor, and at least on my healer armor has all the SAME effects such as the 1k ward proc on the pants for example, same resists, etc., just missing some potency, a red adorn slot and the crit mit.  It will easily get you into the first couple of encounters in Palace, Toxx and Labs where crit mit isn't a big deal and let you start farming T1 raid armor which will give you the crit mit to go to the next raiding step.

BTW to the OP, you don't need crit mit for regular group zones.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:02 PM   #6
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There needs to be a full T2 mark set with stats for those of us who have no interest in BGs. I don't want the BG gear nerfed, but only having 3 pieces of the mark armor having stats is BS of the highest order.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:05 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Just saying that I don't think it is fair that those who only want to PvE have to have anything at all to do with PvP to compete with other players at PvE.

Then again, you're wrong. My guildmates and I happily and successfully PvE every night without ever touching a Battleground or its rewards.

To argue that PvE is somehow too hard without BG gear is absurd.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:12 PM   #8
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Just saying that I don't think it is fair that those who only want to PvE have to have anything at all to do with PvP to compete with other players at PvE.

Then again, you're wrong. My guildmates and I happily and successfully PvE every night without ever touching a Battleground or its rewards.

To his point, are you wearing any raid gear?

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:13 PM   #9
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BG gear is easy enough to get with minimal effort. If it's that much of an advantage, then I'm sorry for the raid. Show them that you know your class, and they should give you a chance.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:15 PM   #10
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Similar gear with the same effects would be fair.  If people wanna PVP their brains out got for it.  I have no interest in it but I should be able to get similar gear minus the toughness aspect.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:19 PM   #11
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Thunndar316 wrote:

Similar gear with the same effects would be fair.  If people wanna PVP their brains out got for it.  I have no interest in it but I should be able to get similar gear minus the toughness aspect.

I would agree - BG's were a disater for PVE and as I believe SmokeJumper said - they so far have not justified the development effort and time they involved.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:23 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Just saying that I don't think it is fair that those who only want to PvE have to have anything at all to do with PvP to compete with other players at PvE.

Then again, you're wrong. My guildmates and I happily and successfully PvE every night without ever touching a Battleground or its rewards.

To his point, are you wearing any raid gear?

No. Not a raider here. I wear mastercrafted.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:43 PM   #13
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Thunndar316 wrote:

Similar gear with the same effects would be fair.  If people wanna PVP their brains out got for it.  I have no interest in it but I should be able to get similar gear minus the toughness aspect.

this was my point.  Don't think for a moment that I don't think current group content isn't a joke, cause it is.  My sk can solo instance trash and have even 2 boxed a few of the easier nameds.  The point is when competing for a spot in a group or a raid team someone should be able to achieve equivalent levels of power by doing nothing but PvE.  And I mean before raiding, if PvP'ers don't have to raid to achieve that we shouldn't either.

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Old 08-02-2010, 06:54 PM   #14
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Wurm wrote:

There needs to be a full T2 mark set with stats for those of us who have no interest in BGs. I don't want the BG gear nerfed, but only having 3 pieces of the mark armor having stats is BS of the highest order.

Those sets are complete, with all 7 pieces. It's just that only 3 of those pieces can be bought, while the other 4 are drops in the instances. They added pieces for those slots without stats for an easier way to complete the appearance set.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:01 PM   #15
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i have lvl 85 BG and it isnt that good as much as T2 void shard armors.

there better ones from The Hole.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:06 PM   #16
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not talking about 85 bg armor or void shard armor... am talking about 90 bg armor vs. the measly 3 pieces of armor a lvl 90 can get with marks.  And the jewelry from instances or marks is nowhere near as good as bg jewelry.  Not in effects, blue stats, resists, or raw stats.

Just saying many PvE'ers would like to do only that, PvE.  And not feel gimped for not doing PvP.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:34 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

Thunndar316 wrote:

Similar gear with the same effects would be fair.  If people wanna PVP their brains out got for it.  I have no interest in it but I should be able to get similar gear minus the toughness aspect.

this was my point.  Don't think for a moment that I don't think current group content isn't a joke, cause it is.  My sk can solo instance trash and have even 2 boxed a few of the easier nameds.  The point is when competing for a spot in a group or a raid team someone should be able to achieve equivalent levels of power by doing nothing but PvE.  And I mean before raiding, if PvP'ers don't have to raid to achieve that we shouldn't either.

I think is a very big stretch to say that BG gear is ruining PVE. Personally, I do both BGs and PVE and enjoy both. But I wear a mix of both BG and PVE gear.

For jewelry, instance legendary and fabled PVE gear is better than BG gear. The BG jewelry just isn't that great for PVE compared to what you can get from instances and even what can be bought from the broker.

Weapons are a mixed bag, but I would give a slight edge to the BG swords (for my ranger anyway) compared to the mark swords and instance drops. But the difference isn't that great.

If you look at the T2 Mark items (boots, wrists, shoulders), the Mark gear is quite a bit better in blue stats and the BG gear is quite a bit better in green stats and a little better mitigation. For PVE, the blue stats including crit mit and a yellow adornment slot are more important. So for 3 of the 7 pieces of armor, the PVE gear is better and easily obtained through just PVE.

The other 4 pieces are a mixed bag. There is a quest chest piece and inistance chests pieces that are quite close to the BG gear in blue stats but still behind. There are some legs instance pieces that are on par for blue stats with BG legs but still behind on green stats. The same is true for helms unless you are lucky enough to get the fabled non-raid helm (at least for scouts) which is better for raiding than the BG helm. However, for hands, the BG gear wins for sure. The instance and faction hands from PVE just plain suck. I don't think this is a problem with the BG gear, but with the PVE gear. We need instance hands that have haste (attack speed)!

So while BG  armor is better for 3 or 4 of the 7 pieces, the disparity isn't huge and instance gear wins out in all of the other slots.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:50 PM   #18
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Its a shame you get better rewards beating the crud out of each other than you do actually grouping up and helping each other out in instances.

Plus it drags even more people from the live servers.

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:58 PM   #19
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You want bg gear? BG

You want heroic gear?  Do heroic zones

You want the best gear?  Raid

You want better heroic gear?  Then ask for harder heroic content

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:59 PM   #20
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I don't agree with nerfing BG gear at all, but to the OP's point the mark gear should be better than it is. As it stand now, it is total garbage (cept for maybe the shoulders). It could also provide a minimal amount of crit mit for those that want to start raiding a bit. It wouldn't hurt anything and would be pretty reasonable.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:12 PM   #21
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BG gear is a good set to start out with. Its better then heroic gear to start raiding with, but then again its also a bit of a grind in comparison. I run both and use whatever pieces from BG to fill in the gaps. Thats pretty much all its good for.

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Old 08-02-2010, 11:56 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

This stuff is just way too good.  It shouldn't work in PvE at all or at least PvE'ers should be given an option to obtain gear that is just as good.  Now I'm sure someone will say, go raid and get gear that is better for PvE anyway...  But therein lies the conundrum..

I'm sure someone will say but you need crit mit for PvE and BG gear doesn't have that.  However neither does pre-raid gear either.  There are only 3 armor pieces that have any.  Instance gear doesn't have any either.  So the best option remains get your 3 armor pieces from marks and then bg for the rest of your gear.

Jumping right to raiding may or may not  be an option.   If 2 people apply for a spot in a raid guild...  One who has the 3 armor pieces with x amount of crit mit and the rest fabled bg gear and does 30k+ dps right off the bat...  the second has the 3 armor pieces and legendary gear from instances and does 15k dps...  who are you going to take?  Both have the same crit mit but one performs twice as well.

We should not have to PvP to compete in PvE.  There needs to be better options to get gear for people who only want to PvE.  Or just disable PvP gear completely in PvE.  Many of us have no interest in BG's and find them to be quite boring.

You have that option: BGs, same as every single person, on every single server, has the option to. Saying you should not have to pvp (BGs is not real pvp, but let's allow it) to get the pvp gear is the same as saying you shouldnt have to raid to get raid gear.

Bottom line, if you want the gear, either raid or BGs gear, then you either raid or play BGs. If you dont want to do either, then you get what you allow yourself to get. Simple.

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:01 AM   #23
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Crismorn wrote:

You want bg gear? BG

You want heroic gear?  Do heroic zones

You want the best gear?  Raid

You want better heroic gear?  Then ask for harder heroic content

I don't often agree with you, though I don't really feed your posts to point it out lol, but this is perfectly stated.

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:21 AM   #24
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Chakos wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This stuff is just way too good.  It shouldn't work in PvE at all or at least PvE'ers should be given an option to obtain gear that is just as good.  Now I'm sure someone will say, go raid and get gear that is better for PvE anyway...  But therein lies the conundrum..

I'm sure someone will say but you need crit mit for PvE and BG gear doesn't have that.  However neither does pre-raid gear either.  There are only 3 armor pieces that have any.  Instance gear doesn't have any either.  So the best option remains get your 3 armor pieces from marks and then bg for the rest of your gear.

Jumping right to raiding may or may not  be an option.   If 2 people apply for a spot in a raid guild...  One who has the 3 armor pieces with x amount of crit mit and the rest fabled bg gear and does 30k+ dps right off the bat...  the second has the 3 armor pieces and legendary gear from instances and does 15k dps...  who are you going to take?  Both have the same crit mit but one performs twice as well.

We should not have to PvP to compete in PvE.  There needs to be better options to get gear for people who only want to PvE.  Or just disable PvP gear completely in PvE.  Many of us have no interest in BG's and find them to be quite boring.

You have that option: BGs, same as every single person, on every single server, has the option to. Saying you should not have to pvp (BGs is not real pvp, but let's allow it) to get the pvp gear is the same as saying you shouldnt have to raid to get raid gear.

Bottom line, if you want the gear, either raid or BGs gear, then you either raid or play BGs. If you dont want to do either, then you get what you allow yourself to get. Simple.

What they are saying is they shouldn't have to PvP to get good PvE gear there should be an option to get something just as good for PvE as the BG armour seems to be which is better then the mark that is supposed to get you into the lower raid zones.

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Old 08-03-2010, 12:47 AM   #25
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They want people to play BG. A F'n ton of people only play BG to get gear they can not get doing PvE instances. I agree there needs to be mark gear that mirrors the BG gear but with CritMit on it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 12:51 AM   #26
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as someone who has an extreme hatred for any MMO pvp since DAOC, I can say knowing that when my Swashie hits 90 I will have to pvp in order to get into PVE raids makes my stomach sick.

Mark gear should be just as good as BG gear and provide crit mit...

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Old 08-03-2010, 02:09 AM   #27
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You guys realize that you can do entry level raiding in MC because the first few mobs in each zone don't crit right?

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Old 08-03-2010, 02:20 AM   #28
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Trevalon wrote:

Mark gear should be just as good as BG gear and provide crit mit...

I  don't think it will be done unless the amount of marks needed is drastically increased. Current mark gear is average legendary quality, while the BG gear is currently fabled and similar statistics wise to Sentinel's Fate T2 raid armor. As said earlier in this thread, BG gear essentially is a form of raid gear stat-wise. Is it really any wonder why you see some people wearing it as their primary set of armor?

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Old 08-03-2010, 02:20 AM   #29
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Raiding guilds usually look for players with some talent and good personalities, Not BG gear.

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Old 08-03-2010, 02:31 AM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

Wurm wrote:

There needs to be a full T2 mark set with stats for those of us who have no interest in BGs. I don't want the BG gear nerfed, but only having 3 pieces of the mark armor having stats is BS of the highest order.

Those sets are complete, with all 7 pieces. It's just that only 3 of those pieces can be bought, while the other 4 are drops in the instances. They added pieces for those slots without stats for an easier way to complete the appearance set.

Thats not true, most of the instance dropped items don't come anywhere near to the BG fabled or the Mark T2, I know I'm wearing a lot of them.

Running instances for gear wasn't the point, the point was we should have full sets of stat-ed items to purchase for our marks to balance out the availability of BG fabled.

And I'd rather save up my marks to pay the 220 for a fabled instance item than waste them on appearance slot items.

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