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Old 07-23-2010, 02:30 PM   #1
kidpaul

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Within the last month I have reported the same guy 3 times for farmboting and apperently noone has done squat about it. Since when did boting become acceptable in this game for I really feel like pulling the plug out of my accounts since apperently cheating is allowed now.

Since the launch of SF I have seen an reported lots of people but only once have a GM actually acted. are really soe that desperat for accounts that you have to keep the cheaters because if you are please tell me so I can quit and move to another game.

If you can detect and get rid of the platsellers and the plboters I dont doubt that you can detect and deal with the farmboters. that or bring back random node spawning even if it is a pain with random spawning nodes but I rather take that then see a bunch of cheaters.

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Old 07-23-2010, 02:32 PM   #2
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What tests did you run to make absolutely certain it was a farm bot?

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Old 07-23-2010, 02:50 PM   #3
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First off, you can't know if he was botting. At most you know he's pulling a lot of mobs and not responding to you, but that's not against the rules.

Second, reporting him for botting's likely to get your report round-filed because of the above. The best approach is to ignore the botting aspect and look at what he's actually doing that you can observe. If he's pulling tons of mobs to the point where it interferes with your play, report him for disruptive play. Don't mention botting at all because you can't provide any evidence of that, just say he's disrupting play by pulling all the mobs other players need and not allowing anyone else a chance at them. And make sure to outline what you did to try to get him to give you a shot at the neccesary mobs. If you didn't try anything the GMs are likely to not have any sympathy for you, so at least try to send him a few /tells saying you need to mobs for a quest or whatever and asking him to group with you for the kills.

And yes you'll find people running around killing tons of particular mobs. There's two quests, one in SF and one in SBH, that yield very nice chest pieces that require killing 4 sets each of 8 different types of mobs. People running those quests will be intensively farming the neccesary mobs for a while, then moving on to the next sets of mobs.

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Old 07-23-2010, 02:59 PM   #4
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I was unclear it is node farming Im talking about not mobs. but apperently this time I was wrong it was just one crazy dedicated dude apperently. but im so used to watching the boters that dedication made him look like a bot.

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Old 07-23-2010, 03:42 PM   #5
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kidpaul wrote:

I was unclear it is node farming Im talking about not mobs. but apperently this time I was wrong it was just one crazy dedicated dude apperently. but im so used to watching the boters that dedication made him look like a bot.

This is your problem right here. You assume he was a bot because he was doing something you didnt understand. Go ahead and petition but understand that SOE only bans when they KNOW someone is doing something wrong.

A person standing in one spot harvesting one or two nodes for a few hours might look like a AFK macroer to you, but that very well could be a person with 2 accounts who is raiding on one character and harvesting on the other. He wont reply to your tells but will for a GM.

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Old 07-23-2010, 05:41 PM   #6
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People sending in false reports don't help the situation.  I think they should ban the people doing the overzealous reporting.

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Old 07-23-2010, 05:54 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

A person standing in one spot harvesting one or two nodes for a few hours might look like a AFK macroer to you, but that very well could be a person with 2 accounts who is raiding on one character and harvesting on the other. He wont reply to your tells but will for a GM.

I've done this for 8+ hours straight.  Cause well, I had my laptop fired up at work and tapped my harvest macro everytime I saw them repopped.

As others have stated, you reporting someone without any real proof isn't helping anyone.

If you want to report someone for bot harvesting look for these signs:1) The player repeatedly changes direction and bee-lines to nodes spawning outside any possible line-of-sight while playing.2) The player repeatedly bangs into objects and resolves this collision in the exact repeated behavior.3) The player spends an excessive amount of time circling a node clearly bugged and out of remotely reasonable reach.4) ?'s are magicaly disapearing and there is a level 4 gnome popping on and off track named something like 'Ukghdscfa'

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Old 07-23-2010, 06:46 PM   #8
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The QQ is strong in this one...
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:37 AM   #9
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BMonkeeus wrote:

The QQ is strong in this one...

If you have seen all the boters in CB you would be [Removed for Content] to. So I was wrong this time atleast I said it was wrong.

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Old 07-24-2010, 08:06 AM   #10
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Some of us last night on the /crafting channel were talking about how we MISS the oiuogiua -style harvest botters.  They were my best customers and servants as a tradeskiller. 

I remember the days in TSO (and pre-TSO) when there were 20-30 rares x 3-5 "random" named character for tynonnium alone at 2-3 plat or 4-5 on the high side when they shifted off to another rare. 

Now SOE is so effective at banning them tyn is 6-7p (last teir's stuff), cobalt up in the 5p+ club, and the new sage/jewelry/etc. rares were like 25p in Feb and now "trickled" down to 10p on the low side per rare only because demand is less. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Those harvesting the ole fashion way are getting significantly lower drop rates compared to the past expansions which I assume have been tuned for several reasons:

a) Quests in T9 give more plat/lvl and SOE didn't want everyone to be super rich who didn't raid or /farm items.

b) If the rates were lowered more ppl that /sub - /unsub when they /finish 1 character would stay longer than they otherwise would.

c) Crafters were getting too rich with too little skin in the game 2p rares for 3-4p items x 30-60 items per crafter with high turnovers were pullin ppl in the 80p profit (or more) per week with ease /afk /no harvesting/ no instance running/ no master sellin/ no raiding required.

d) A policy change effectively reducing the rate at which Reds/oranges/etc. playing the game are allowed to "mass buy" from players with every new character they turnover. (unsure about this one)

e) Effective expuslions for botting reduced the rate of "new turnover" plat farming classes which "mass buy" stuff from players to gear up the new non-banned character used to pharm the platz. (60% of my former mass buyer customers)

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I certainly don't miss the spam but I do miss 5 random names sellin 15-20 end teir rares (any and all of them) on the cheap allowing all of us to peg out alts and increase the willingness of players to "mass buy" stuff from tradeskillers as rares were relatively cheap. 

I know my net worth tradeskilling has not been changed this expansion. 

If you want the platz you gotta farm the masters now in part because harvest botters are so effectively banned.  I miss my plat farming botting customers!

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Old 07-24-2010, 08:28 AM   #11
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On a non-harvesting cheating note everyone will remember:

1) TSO was launched with a "loophole" that almost the entire population used to advance AA wiith the purchase of a second account.

2) Said "hole" was plugged at SF but instead a "new hole" was opened where anyone could create 2nd accounts with no money involved at a cyclical rate to boost a main account.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

I'm not a MBA but that seems like bad business to me.  Plug a "by design" hole that players buy 2 boxes and maintain 2 account subscriptions to instead have players pay for 1 account and get the 2nd one free for an even MORE effective AA/time spent effect than the first way. 

The only way it makes sense is if SNE suits over the SOE managers just look at /sub numbers and this is providing the team a mechanism to HIDE ebbs and flows of populations over an expansion cycle. 

Layoffs make it clear that this cycle has been hit harder which has more to do with ppl not having jobs or working harder to keep their jobs (less free time) and unsub-in faster.  That also puts ppl in a more sour mood and eq2 is kinda a happy game.  That it's updated is also irrelevant to the massses, as mobs like shiny new hype.  Lets not forget everyone playing is now 5-6yrs older than at launch as well. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Cheating should squarely be focused on those kinds of things as SOE has been too effective at banning mass botting harvester plat farmers.

/hint PLUG the HOLE and fix the AA rate in the regular game so ppl don't have to abuse to keep up

/hint Open the door to botters (real people with motives to 6 box) instead of getting no net increase in population and lower revenue by disabling #1 and enabling #2. 

But don't forget to ban them every 3 weeks or so such that they have to pwrlvl up a character and mass buy my stuff on a regular basis like the ole ROK/TSO days plz!

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Old 07-24-2010, 08:48 AM   #12
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On a population note related to the effective banning /prevention of harvest botters:

If it's not cake playing the tradeskill game at endgame now to make money like ROK/TSO how many "marginal" tradeskill accounts were lost this cycle by the changes in rare rates & bannings?

I know my account wouldn't be here if I was a tradeskill only account as my gf refuse to play my tradeskillers for me anymore as it's not worth her time. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

It's a big psychological break to permanently go from 40-60p per week for 1.5hrs of RL time for 2 expansions to maybe 20p per week with low "vulnerable" turnover of very high priced items or to pull constant "restocking" of items "barely" over cost compared to ROK/TSO days.  Low turnover leads to lower margins as less stuff is moving and everything creeps to the price of the rare + fuel.

If airplane pilots used to make 100K and now have been reduced to 40K don't you think more of them will just go somewhere else where the pay is the same with less effort?  Same is true of "diner dash" style tradeskilling players. 

They really are addicted to the account odometer in plat and if the rate is too low you lose them.  Being afraid they enable the account to /buy everything and /unsub is a misplaced fear. I'd imagine most just like watching that plat number tick higher.  Effective banning of harvest botters has had an unintentended consequence.

If you all were worried that there's too much plat in players hands you could start SLR for raid items and selling raid slots (piggy back slots) to get red adorns in raids where you all "drive the bus" and take said plat and "destroy it" which real players never would do.

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Old 07-24-2010, 09:30 AM   #13
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

Now SOE is so effective at banning them tyn is 6-7p (last teir's stuff), cobalt up in the 5p+ club, and the new sage/jewelry/etc. rares were like 25p in Feb and now "trickled" down to 10p on the low side per rare only because demand is less. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Those harvesting the ole fashion way are getting significantly lower drop rates compared to the past expansions which I assume have been tuned for several reasons:

So, the price of rares from nodes that are no longer end game have gone up. This is obviously not because these nodes are no longer end game harvesting, but is rather because they are no longer farmed by bots... right...

The rare price in T9 is higher than expected, but is not because of the decreased rarity of the rares in this tier... its because the botters are no longer botting them!

See, I am able to spot the same things you can in terms of the price of rares, but I came to a totally different conclusion as to why that is the case,

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Old 07-24-2010, 09:32 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

People sending in false reports don't help the situation.  I think they should ban the people doing the overzealous reporting.

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

Lets be real here, SOE or any other company does not have the resources to dedicate to looking for cheaters, the first line of report is the players, just like the first line of report for criminal activity is the general populous dailing their local law enforcement to report something.

By the way, why assume they are false? The can be false as well as real, you have not way of determining it.

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Old 07-24-2010, 01:28 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

People sending in false reports don't help the situation.  I think they should ban the people doing the overzealous reporting.

Apparently some people have nothing else to do with their time, and are in dire need of feeling superior or in control.

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Old 07-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #16
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Wingrider01 wrote:

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

If you see a furnature removal team working, ask them what they are doing. If they do not answer you, as is possible since they are likely busy, call teh police and tell them there is a robbery in place.

See how the cops like it. If your lucky, they will tell you to not be an idiot, if you are unlucky, they will charge you with wasting police time.

IOW, yes, I think people should be charged with calling in some things, and as it happens, many countries have laws specifically designed to allow them to do exactly that.

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Old 07-24-2010, 02:55 PM   #17
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Pervis wrote:

So, the price of rares from nodes that are no longer end game have gone up. This is obviously not because these nodes are no longer end game harvesting, but is rather because they are no longer farmed by bots... right...

The rare price in T9 is higher than expected, but is not because of the decreased rarity of the rares in this tier... its because the botters are no longer botting them!

See, I am able to spot the same things you can in terms of the price of rares, but I came to a totally different conclusion as to why that is the case,

I agree with both points, I just failed to include them in the first post as this thread is about botting not rare drop rates.

I failed to explicity state that I assumed everyone already understood and took for granted that non-endgame harvests have a premium built in from lack of harvesters.  My point was that botters > than rare rate in ROK/TSO for rare pricing which is of course debatable.

Additionally I failed to explicitly point out that my mention of the crafting channel discussion "water cooler talk" about missing the botters was instigated by another person complaining about the low rare rate.   

_ _ _ _ _ _

The spirit of my post was ROK/TSO was nice as the botters served a purpose allowing other players to do something else besides harvest.  Trying to slow people down to keep them in game longer obviously hasn't worked (AA rate, rare rate, etc.) as layoffs have recently shown us.

 _ _ _ _ _ _

If anything perhaps we (those of us on the forums) should "back of the envelope" which matters more:

 Truckloads of rares harvested by botters or increased rare rate by harvested by a smaller less determined population.

 _ _ _ _ _ _ 

I know 20p rares don't make me want to harvest, it makes me wanna 3 box PR runs every time the timer's up which is in itself another small "hole" of "almost" cheating in my books.

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Old 07-24-2010, 03:00 PM   #18
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S_M_I_T_E wrote:

I know 20p rares don't make me want to harvest, it makes me wanna 3 box PR runs every time the timer's up which is in itself another small "hole" of "almost" cheating in my books.

This type of condoned psuedo-cheating just feels as wrong as allowing botters to harvest the rares. 

If plat holes like these stay might has well sell "laser goggles" on the marketplace so people can solo x4 zones and get the plat drops meant for x24 players. 

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Old 07-24-2010, 04:16 PM   #19
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Pervis wrote:

If you see a furnature removal team working, ask them what they are doing. If they do not answer you, as is possible since they are likely busy, call teh police and tell them there is a robbery in place.

See how the cops like it. If your lucky, they will tell you to not be an idiot, if you are unlucky, they will charge you with wasting police time.

IOW, yes, I think people should be charged with calling in some things, and as it happens, many countries have laws specifically designed to allow them to do exactly that.

Bear in mind, there was a car-theft ring in Tucson when I was in college that exploited exactly this blind spot. I even saw them in action (at least I'm pretty sure I did). They had a couple of flat-bed tow trucks with professionally-done door logos, DOT numbers, standard-looking uniforms for the operators, the works. They'd pull up to a car, check the license plates and VIN number against a clipboard, write some stuff down, get out the rollers and hook the car up and pull it up onto the flat-bed and pull away. They'd be doing this mid-morning, late enough for everybody to be at work but early enough that it wouldn't be lunch-time. They even had the gall to do this in full view of cops parked on the street. And it took nearly 6 months for anyone to catch on. They looked and acted just like legitimate tow-truck operators, they weren't trying to hide, everyone who saw them just assumed they were legit because thieves wouldn't be so open and obvious about it. One time when a cop slowed down for them, the thief even flagged the cop down and asked him if he could run the car's plates and confirm the owner, the paperwork had a letter not real legible and he didn't want to tow the wrong car. Of course the thief had the right owner, they were casing the cars ahead of time and getting the registration information by checking DMV records.

So yeah, while I might not call it in in general, if I saw the same moving company showing up more than once on the same street or I knew there hadn't been any for-sale signs up on that house then yes I'd ring up the cops and tell them exactly what I'd seen. I wouldn't tell them I'd seen burglars at work, I'd tell them what I saw and let the cops decide whether that merited a stop-by. If I was the only caller the cops probably wouldn't bother, but if I was calling in and they'd had 2 complaints in the last week of burglaries and in both cases people had told police that yeah they'd seen that same moving company outside the house... that might change how the cops react just a tad.

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Old 07-25-2010, 03:57 PM   #20
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Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

If you see a furnature removal team working, ask them what they are doing. If they do not answer you, as is possible since they are likely busy, call teh police and tell them there is a robbery in place.

See how the cops like it. If your lucky, they will tell you to not be an idiot, if you are unlucky, they will charge you with wasting police time.

IOW, yes, I think people should be charged with calling in some things, and as it happens, many countries have laws specifically designed to allow them to do exactly that.

personally back before I retired and I was on regualr patrol duty, if someone came up and told me something like that I had no issues with verifying that the movers are actually authorized to be there and do exactly what they are doing. I had no issue with civilian involvemnt in preventing crime.

Amazing how many crimes are prevented by civilian involvement in early reporting. Friends and family that are still active seem to have no issue with it either.

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Old 07-25-2010, 04:11 PM   #21
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But what about if you had hundreds of people telling you about furniture removal teams all over the city?

If CS only ever got a single bot report a day, I have no doubt they would look in to it, quite happily. The thing is though, they get far more than one, and a lot of them should never have been made.

Players just need to practice a little discretion in these matters. If they are really concerned with bots in this game, they would spend a few minutes to check it out so as to not waste CS time on false alarms, when instead they could be out catching something real.

Its a fine line to tread, I know. The thing is though, the more bogus reports CS get, the less time they have to deal with the real ones.

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Old 07-26-2010, 11:14 AM   #22
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Wingrider01 wrote:

personally back before I retired and I was on regualr patrol duty, if someone came up and told me something like that I had no issues with verifying that the movers are actually authorized to be there and do exactly what they are doing. I had no issue with civilian involvemnt in preventing crime.

My city charges a citation of $150 per false alarm call after 3 in a given year...

I imagine they did this to curtail false reports?

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Old 07-26-2010, 11:28 AM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

personally back before I retired and I was on regualr patrol duty, if someone came up and told me something like that I had no issues with verifying that the movers are actually authorized to be there and do exactly what they are doing. I had no issue with civilian involvemnt in preventing crime.

My city charges a citation of $150 per false alarm call after 3 in a given year...

I imagine they did this to curtail false reports?

Exactly right, intentional false reporting of a crime, or crank calls to the police, tends to get you into trouble.Calling up and saying you see suspicious activity won't get you into trouble even if it does turn out to be nothing.However there are those people who have the cry wolf syndrome, or just somebody looking to harass there neighbor.

ie - Hello, moving van in such and such's driveway but nobody is home and they never sold there house seems a bit odd, GOOD.

ie - Blah blah bank is being robbed and you are sitting on the other side of town in a bar... BAD

Sad but true laws are rarely made to prempt a issue they tend to be reactive, or after an issue has been going on for some time.

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Old 07-26-2010, 11:33 AM   #24
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

However there are those people who have the cry wolf syndrome, or just somebody looking to harass there neighbor.

Having had such a neighbor, I'm appreciative of the law/fine.

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Old 07-26-2010, 01:06 PM   #25
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People sending in false reports don't help the situation.  I think they should ban the people doing the overzealous reporting.

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

Lets be real here, SOE or any other company does not have the resources to dedicate to looking for cheaters, the first line of report is the players, just like the first line of report for criminal activity is the general populous dailing their local law enforcement to report something.

By the way, why assume they are false? The can be false as well as real, you have not way of determining it.

It depends upon if they happen upon an actual crime or if they spend their time looking for things to report that may or may not be illegal, but they need something to do to occupy their time. A lot of time is wasted in false reports, which BTW can land you in jail time in the real world, especially if it becomes a habit. If you want to be a crimefighter, get off your butt and go become a cop. But sneaking around looking for people to report to make yourself feel important suggest something entirely different, like maybe you need to find a new hobby.

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Old 07-26-2010, 01:11 PM   #26
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Wingrider01 wrote:

Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

If you see a furnature removal team working, ask them what they are doing. If they do not answer you, as is possible since they are likely busy, call teh police and tell them there is a robbery in place.

See how the cops like it. If your lucky, they will tell you to not be an idiot, if you are unlucky, they will charge you with wasting police time.

IOW, yes, I think people should be charged with calling in some things, and as it happens, many countries have laws specifically designed to allow them to do exactly that.

personally back before I retired and I was on regualr patrol duty, if someone came up and told me something like that I had no issues with verifying that the movers are actually authorized to be there and do exactly what they are doing. I had no issue with civilian involvemnt in preventing crime.

Amazing how many crimes are prevented by civilian involvement in early reporting. Friends and family that are still active seem to have no issue with it either.

There is a significant difference between something like that and those who go out looking for something to "tattle" on that may or may not be of signifcance but they don't really care. If someone comes up to me in the game and starts talking to me and I don't know who they are or don't care to answer, or more commonly don't even see them, I have every right not to answer. It doesn't deserve a report to the "powers that be" that I refused to respond to them. That is arrogance beyond belief. No one is required to respond to anyone, least of all busybodies with nothing better to do with their lives and their time.

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Old 07-26-2010, 01:18 PM   #27
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It's too bad posters don't have the ability to lock their own threads. Dude said he was mistaken, just sayin.

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Old 07-26-2010, 02:03 PM   #28
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Wingrider01 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People sending in false reports don't help the situation.  I think they should ban the people doing the overzealous reporting.

do you also think that people who call in a possible crime should be charged when it turns out not to be?

If the same guy is calling in crimes all the time and most of them are false claims then yeah he needs to be charged with at least a fine.

Wingrider01 wrote:

Lets be real here, SOE or any other company does not have the resources to dedicate to looking for cheaters, the first line of report is the players, just like the first line of report for criminal activity is the general populous dailing their local law enforcement to report something.

Him reporting all these people all the time (if you read the original post it's pretty obvious he spends a good amount of time trying to get people in trouble) is just bogging down the CS reps from doing their jobs.  I'm sure there a lot more of these 'do-gooders' out there sending in tons of reports, effectively preventing CS from getting to important stuff like helping with buggy quest updates, loot issues, and character problems.

Wingrider01 wrote:

By the way, why assume they are false? The can be false as well as real, you have not way of determining it.

I know they are false, he posted that the guy wasn't a botter.

If someone is obviously botting or cheating then go ahead and report him.  It's not that hard to see the pattern a bot runs.  If you're not sure then ignore him.

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Old 07-26-2010, 02:41 PM   #29
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Maybe make nodes when they give up a rare they spawn a yellow con mob with it.

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Old 07-26-2010, 02:52 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

Maybe make nodes when they give up a rare they spawn a yellow con mob with it.

While creative, I don't think this will do anything to stop botters, and would only serve to irritate actual players.

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