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Old 11-04-2012, 08:28 PM   #61
Hennyo

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The reason the stats are soo high, and there are a few other mystics in my similar situation, is that the group I'm in runs a large number of group buffs that increase potency or CB by quite a few percentage points, and all stack. So yes my real potency and CB are really that high in raids effectively. In fact there are times due to various temp buffs, that I pass over 500 potency. The only dps ability I am not capped on ability mod for is avenging ancestors, and heal wise, everything is capped except my group ward, which it almost is. My normal group ward with offensive stance is over 120k, and my Oberon is around 100 to 110k. My normal potency is 350, and my CB 365, without any temporary buffs up. My standing ability mod is 6250 + 1600 from wisdom, and I gain about another 1500 normally from being in combat in a group, sometimes this goes higher. It should be noted, that I dropped a fair amount of ability mod recently in favor of more stats in other areas.

EDIT: Procs that increase potency on my gear alone that stack, 10 + 8 + 15 + 8 + 3 + 10 + 12 + 10 + (12 optional). The difference between medium level raid gear, and top level raid gear right now, really is this extreme. I would imagine during CoE, that this only gets worse, and that these prestige should absolutely be considered with the gear we are going to get, and not the gear we currently have.

2nd EDIT: Sorry if this is coming off confrontational, because it isn't meant to be that at all. I am just trying to paint a more realistic picture of how these prestige look in top end gear. A player shouldn't be dropping their prestige end lines as their gear gets better, that type of thinking is just all backwards in my book, but the way they are currently designed, the better your gear, the worse these prestige look.

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:56 PM   #62
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Hennyo wrote:

The reason the stats are soo high, and there are a few other mystics in my similar situation, is that the group I'm in runs a large number of group buffs that increase potency or CB by quite a few percentage points, and all stack. So yes my real potency and CB are really that high in raids effectively. In fact there are times due to various temp buffs, that I pass over 500 potency. The only dps ability I am not capped on ability mod for is avenging ancestors, and heal wise, everything is capped except my group ward, which it almost is. My normal group ward with offensive stance is over 120k, and my Oberon is around 100 to 110k. My normal potency is 350, and my CB 365, without any temporary buffs up. My standing ability mod is 6250 + 1600 from wisdom, and I gain about another 1500 normally from being in combat in a group, sometimes this goes higher. It should be noted, that I dropped a fair amount of ability mod recently in favor of more stats in other areas.

This is all completely beside the point; the point is, the abilities suck.  Yes, they will have varying degrees of suck based on your stats, but they suck none-the-less

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Old 11-05-2012, 06:03 AM   #63
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After struggling through these 5 pages, no wonder they made the abilities so bad

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Old 11-05-2012, 07:26 AM   #64
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Ebofu wrote:

After struggling through these 5 pages, no wonder they made the abilities so bad

They have done "It" before there were these pages

Try to offer something very good !

Hene wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

The reason the stats are soo high, and there are a few other mystics in my similar situation, is that the group I'm in runs a large number of group buffs that increase potency or CB by quite a few percentage points, and all stack. So yes my real potency and CB are really that high in raids effectively. In fact there are times due to various temp buffs, that I pass over 500 potency. The only dps ability I am not capped on ability mod for is avenging ancestors, and heal wise, everything is capped except my group ward, which it almost is. My normal group ward with offensive stance is over 120k, and my Oberon is around 100 to 110k. My normal potency is 350, and my CB 365, without any temporary buffs up. My standing ability mod is 6250 + 1600 from wisdom, and I gain about another 1500 normally from being in combat in a group, sometimes this goes higher. It should be noted, that I dropped a fair amount of ability mod recently in favor of more stats in other areas.

This is all completely beside the point; the point is, the abilities suck.  Yes, they will have varying degrees of suck based on your stats, but they suck none-the-less

That's it!

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Old 11-06-2012, 04:57 AM   #65
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I hope this will not be next "We know what to change, but we will not change anything"...

Because of this message by Xelgad

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Old 11-06-2012, 01:22 PM   #66
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inspire1444568 wrote:

I hope this will not be next "We know what to change, but we will not change anything"...

Because of this message by Xelgad

after reading that i feel sick.....if there is no more overhalls the how come these nightmare lines haven't been touched tweaked etc.... it' kinda sad.. i know the dev's say they play the game and this maybe true but my guess is they don't play a mystic/defiler as it seems they have no idea what these classes need /want in terms of abilitys,,,i have enuff wards i need better ways to cure/deathsave my group or self-rez , if a ward isn't over 1.5 mill so it can block a aoe on my group i don't care as the wards i have now are fine ...inquis got a ward....wardens got a ward....weres my self rez or aoe blocker that will work 100% of the time unlike the worthless dog aoe blocker.....were is our shorter reuse grp cure..and not the .9 sec reuse reduction we get from 8 aa's in the shaman tree (intended if so fix the wording)if i sound upset i am as all mystics should be over this!!

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:02 PM   #67
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It's not a good sign for us that there's only a week until launch and one priest update scheduled between now and then. We have to put all of our faith on that one update and hope it gets done right ... because otherwise we're not going to see any desirable changes and will be left with two prestige trees that aren't even worth using. Given that our changes the past weeks have been just nerfs when we weren't even the strongest healer class around - it's safe to worry.Stop suggesting we get other class abilities and work toward getting what we have, since they're only doing limited tweaks now, made viable. It's all the hope we have left at this point.

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Old 11-07-2012, 09:50 PM   #68
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" Mystic Grey Recollection is now Mystic Ritual. It adds a ward when casting heals to Ritual of Alacrity and damage when attacking to it as well. Ancestral Support's ward is now based on the group's damage, not each individual. Ferocity of Spirits now can trigger when using damage spells and combat arts as well. It now longer grants flurry, and instead adds 6% of the base crit bonus to the mystic per increment. Ancestral Support is now 3 seconds cast and the reuse is now 60 seconds. The ward now lasts for 30 seconds. Helpful Spirits now has a 15 second duration. White Wolf's Howl is now 5% per rank. It can now only trigger once every 30 seconds. Claws of the War Boar can now only trigger once every 30 seconds. Snow Rhino's Power can now only trigger once every 30 seconds. Barrier of the Spirits now locks out Ferocity of the Spirits for 30 seconds. The ward has been greatly increased. " Let me translate what happened for other mystics. Previously on test the only AA spec you should ever take was double conversion, Spiritual Medium, and 3 in Ferocity of Spirits. Now you still take double conversion, but can choose between taking Ancestral Support or Ferocity of Spirits. Also we may be able to choose between Mystic Ritual and Spiritual Medium now. Also, everything change down both lines was a nerf, making taking an endline an even worse choice than it was before.

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:33 PM   #69
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We're increasing the Weapon Damage Bonus on Snow Rhino's Power tomorrow.

The changes to the enhances today weren't really nerfs.  Helpful Spirits will have a lot more up time than before, and the increased cooldowns on Claws of the War Boar, Snow Rhino's Power, and White Wolf's Howl were just so you wouldn't cancel Ferocity of Spirits to gain (for example) +15% to all wards full time.  

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:24 AM   #70
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Xelgad wrote:

We're increasing the Weapon Damage Bonus on Snow Rhino's Power tomorrow.

The changes to the enhances today weren't really nerfs.  Helpful Spirits will have a lot more up time than before, and the increased cooldowns on Claws of the War Boar, Snow Rhino's Power, and White Wolf's Howl were just so you wouldn't cancel Ferocity of Spirits to gain (for example) +15% to all wards full time.  

While you may have some good intentions here, this posts just shows how out of touch you are with the real value of these new prestige.

First, the weapon damage bonus wasn't in todays notes, that is a good change.

Let me go down the list for you, and explain the way I am seeing these changes, and why.

1. Mystic Ritual - this is interesting, and if I needed a little extra healing on my tank, this could be a legitimate choice.

2. Ancestral Support - The base change to this was needed, and I am slightly curious to see exactly how it works, does it provide a separate ward for everyone, or is it a shared group ward, either way, still a good change.

3. Ferocity of Spirits - This is a good change, granted I never had trouble proccing it before, but still welcome to see. Also, the change to CB instead of Flurry is good, but you may be trying to balance this around the idea of no double conversion, but that is a bad train of thought. The reason why is extremely geared mystics, the 18 CB from this is a joke next to the conversion amount, when I am seeing upwards of 40+ CB from the conversion right now at times in raid.

4. Ancestral Support reuse change - Good to see the reuse drop, I feel it should have been more, but the change to the way it works, this time of reuse and cast speed change makes sense. I would considering picking this up only for an OT group where I was healing a tank picking up murderous swarm adds. Stack wards before they spawn, pop AS and get an extra ward 6 seconds latter.

5. Helpful Spirits - Cool you increased the duration, problem tho, this prestige is almost completely worthless. Any mystic that knows how to play the class, stacks group hot procs, not ward procs to deal with random unwardable group damage. This is only up a small period of time out of all the time someone needs direct heals on their group, this effectively changes nothing. If this prestige was completely removed, I wouldn't notice a thing.

6. White Wolf's Howl - This change is an overall upgrade over the previous version, but it STILL is a heal LOSS over not taking double conversion. I think you are looking at this ability in the vacuum of not considering the fact that a mystic is serious heal penalty not taking a double conversion spec. I see no reason to add fluctuation to my heal amounts over stable overall higher ones.

7. Claws of the War Boar - An already pitiful DPS proc, nerfed to half of what it was. Seriously this could have been doubled and still sucked, no clue why this was nerfed further. Yes I know the actual proc is high, but in terms of DPS outputs it is terrible.

8. Snow Rhino's Power - This is still an overall weak group auto attack buff, that is wholey underwhelming as its current amount, but lets see how much it gets buffed, curious if it will even equal what it was before with the reuse nerf.

9. Barrier of the Spirits - This was really a horrible change, because if you needed the extra ward so badly you hit this, you lose 18 CB instantly, and can't even start to gain it back for 30 seconds, and then it takes an additional 20 absolutely minimum to get it back. If you don't want this ability spammed, put a reuse time on the ability, not on Ferocity of Spirits. Even if the ward numbers are better, this change is large nerf to this skill.

Overall this changes absolutely nothing I said, except maybe I was leaving out that mystics in weaker gear might see the left line as a legitimate spec, but for mystics with lots of gear, it certainly is not.

Edit : Also, none of this addresses the fact that the top section of the right side is weaker than the left side equivalent, which does have a real effect on the value of the bottom of the right side. Umbral Barrier does provide a larger base ward, and the AC reset is better for various reasons I described. On that note, the fact that Helpful Spirits is on the left side along with the AC reset, and not the right side where it might actually have some small value, just kinda makes me shake my head.

Even if I kinda like the end line for the left side, all three abilities between Ancestral Support, and the Spiritual Stability are complete garbage, and I couldn't justify it if I tried.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:39 AM   #71
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Hennyo wrote:

8. Snow Rhino's Power - This is still an overall weak group auto attack buff, that is wholey underwhelming as its current amount, but lets see how much it gets buffed, curious if it will even equal what it was before with the reuse nerf.

Overall this changes absolutely nothing I said, except maybe I was leaving out that mystics in weaker gear might see the left line as a legitimate spec, but for mystics with lots of gear, it certainly is not.

Edit : Also, none of this addresses the fact that the top section of the right side is weaker than the left side equivalent, which does have a real effect on the value of the bottom of the right side. Umbral Barrier does provide a larger base ward, and the AC reset is better for various reasons I described. On that note, the fact that Helpful Spirits is on the left side along with the AC reset, and not the right side where it might actually have some small value, just kinda makes me shake my head.

Even if I kinda like the end line for the left side, all three abilities between Ancestral Support, and the Spiritual Stability are complete garbage, and I couldn't justify it if I tried.

just thought you should know weapon damage bonus even 3% is very powerful

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:00 AM   #72
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Ratman12345 wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

8. Snow Rhino's Power - This is still an overall weak group auto attack buff, that is wholey underwhelming as its current amount, but lets see how much it gets buffed, curious if it will even equal what it was before with the reuse nerf.

Overall this changes absolutely nothing I said, except maybe I was leaving out that mystics in weaker gear might see the left line as a legitimate spec, but for mystics with lots of gear, it certainly is not.

Edit : Also, none of this addresses the fact that the top section of the right side is weaker than the left side equivalent, which does have a real effect on the value of the bottom of the right side. Umbral Barrier does provide a larger base ward, and the AC reset is better for various reasons I described. On that note, the fact that Helpful Spirits is on the left side along with the AC reset, and not the right side where it might actually have some small value, just kinda makes me shake my head.

Even if I kinda like the end line for the left side, all three abilities between Ancestral Support, and the Spiritual Stability are complete garbage, and I couldn't justify it if I tried.

just thought you should know weapon damage bonus even 3% is very powerful

Let me just give you some real math of what this is actually doing, before you go trying to work this angle.

My high end on auto attack in my examine window is 10,808 without the buff, and with the buff it is 11,026 a 2 percent auto attack dps gain. The current amount of weapon damage bonus granted is 4.5% total.

This buff is up a max of something like 12 seconds out of every 30, which is a perfect situation. Assuming a melee dps class with auto attacking being 40 percent of their parse of 1 million DPS, this buff if refreshed perfectly, which is outrageous to assume, would equal out to be 3200 dps for them. In a real situation, it would most likely be about half of this for that dps, and even less for everyone else in group. The total group dps gain from this buff might be 6k to 8k in the current form.

Tommarows change will probally bring this up to around a 25k dps buff, which is still pretty sad, but hey it is something at least at that point.

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:38 AM   #73
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Ok, I just learned something, I completely misunderstood Ferocity of Spirits, which I thought was 6 crit bonus per increment, instead its 6 percent of your total crit bonus per increment, so it kinda throws a wrench into all my previous calculations. That said, I still think that double conversion + Ferocity of Spirits is most likely still the best route. I will still do some testing with the right side now, because I am curious how far off it is now.

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Old 11-08-2012, 03:24 AM   #74
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Raided Altar of Abhorrence x4 tonight to test these abilities out. Before I continue, I'd like to thank Xelgad for the changes he has made - it isn't easy balancing classes and we're not the most appreciative people most of the time. Thank you very much for what tweaks we did receive today.After raiding tonight I'm wondering if Ancestral Support isn't broken, or perhaps it is something that is just lost beneath all of the various other wards that can be cast whether they be spell or proc. The raid lasted roughly an hour and a half and in that time I triggered Ancestral Support roughly 15 times while casting it each time it was up. Often times the ward wasn't appearing in the group window yet my group was doing significant damage (over a million dps, all said). The max hit was 14k - not very significant. I was healing in the Main Tank group so some direct damage was coming our way that should have reflected the use of the ability.I'd almost rather it become a max health buff rather than a ward - if it increased the threshold of health for aoes, then other healers would have more to do after significant damage lands. A functional ward (as it should be) would also be great situationally.Helpful Spirits triggered 52 times in the window that received only 13 casts of Ancestral Support. It was 2 percent of my zone-wide heals over that of 1 percent which Ancestral Support occupied. It is possible that this may be more useful in a fight where there is more of a damage onslaught - but I would prefer if it became a persistant heal over time, or had an increased proc rate. It may lose some viability in being so random. I missed the earlier 25 second duration.Past's Vengeance was 11 percent of my zw DPS out of 148k; roughly 16k dps. If my heal abilities could be comparable to that, they would be awesome. I think Past's Vengeance is OK and the bonus damage is nice.I still wish the Immunities Endline provided a control break since I'm noticing more and more that you cannot pre-cure for aoes. I raided another zone earlier this week and every aoe was a knock-back with a long lasting stifle/stun component and there was just nothing I could do. I had to cross my fingers that my dog's abysmal hit-rates would proc a cure on me. Since that failed, I begged on vent and some other group took pity on me. That said, please consider giving us a control break since we're not asking for a second cure like all the other priests want. SMILEYAncestral Support being cast under control effects would also be good, instead of immunities, if you were inclined to go that route. I briefly tested out the right side - not nearly as comprehensive as the left, but feedback is feedback.The improvement to Ferocity of Spirits was very good - the added crit bonus makes it desirable on a few levels, and the percentile factor will allow it to remain viable through advancing content.Honestly, I think the cumulative rank thing for the benefits of ferocity of the spirit make it a bit daunting. Since you have set them all to have a duration and proc cap, why not just make it all at level 1? Either way we'll be spending points on them if we want them. Begging for it to hit higher increments just so I can see a damage proc is pretty despairing.Buffing Snow Rhino's Power is nice, though will continue to frustrate us that we have to get it to rank two to see it.I suppose the least viable thing about this line is Barrier of the Spirits. Since it locks out Ferocity for 30 seconds, I'll have to spend almost a minute getting it back to rank three to use it again.  Perhaps if this was not yet another ward I'd like it a lot more - a stoneskin, perhaps, a bolster-like ability, or a death save? It is likely too late in the design process to ask for such a change.It seems that every other class is receiving wards these days and the parse is basically a war as to who cast them first. Since we're the original warding class and being outparsed by the abilities of certain plate healers, I'm hoping we can gain some new viable tools along the lines of things we've already received. The shaman 'niche' has been given away - wards are for the world.  Make it so we can cast on the move more reliability, or add more balance to our dog.  This latest patch was full of improvements, and I thank you for that! I hope before launch you have time to look these over and make sure they're in line with what others have gotten.It isn't easy balancing a game. :/

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Old 11-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #75
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OK, a little bit of global questions for developers

What are the advantages Mystic compared to Defiler as Buffer and healing? (It is clear that our treatments are weaker and this is rightly!)

Bolster ... and a little more self-DPS (slightly under this raid)

Do you not understand that in order for the class was really necessary that he should be given the unique

for example for us -   break-of-stun ability and improvement recast mythical

and ... This is ridiculous to give a bonus buffs only increase their own damage (or one-targetting)...

We are HEAL !

First and foremost, our role is healbuffs for group

PS^ But at least thanks for another attempt, we are not used to such attention 

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Old 11-08-2012, 06:57 AM   #76
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ChrissyFaey wrote:

After raiding tonight I'm wondering if Ancestral Support isn't broken, or perhaps it is something that is just lost beneath all of the various other wards that can be cast whether they be spell or proc. The raid lasted roughly an hour and a half and in that time I triggered Ancestral Support roughly 15 times while casting it each time it was up. Often times the ward wasn't appearing in the group window yet my group was doing significant damage (over a million dps, all said). The max hit was 14k - not very significant. I was healing in the Main Tank group so some direct damage was coming our way that should have reflected the use of the ability.

AS does not monitor the damage that group done (as it is written in the description), instead, monitored the obtained loss , only red numbers, not damage before wards

Hennyo wrote:

9. Barrier of the Spirits - This was really a horrible change, because if you needed the extra ward so badly you hit this, you lose 18 CB instantly, and can't even start to gain it back for 30 seconds, and then it takes an additional 20 absolutely minimum to get it back. If you don't want this ability spammed, put a reuse time on the ability, not on Ferocity of Spirits. Even if the ward numbers are better, this change is large nerf to this skill.

or  replace it with improvement of the Stampede that increase duration to 30sec and reduce base reuse time to 4min

And since Xelgad watching this thread, I'll write here - Cure with Herbal Expertise rank 10 = zero mana cost at Cure but Cure not cast when character have 0 mana, it actually after manadrain in PoW, some problem with Ancestral Channeling with Enchane:AC rank 10. This abilities work when character have  1 MP

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Old 11-08-2012, 09:33 AM   #77
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Ancestral Support. Can't be interrupted. Can cast it while moving and jumping. Should be good for warding against 2 AoE's in a row when monitoring during the first to give a ward for the second.

Maranono wrote:

ChrissyFaey wrote:

After raiding tonight I'm wondering if Ancestral Support isn't broken, or perhaps it is something that is just lost beneath all of the various other wards that can be cast whether they be spell or proc. The raid lasted roughly an hour and a half and in that time I triggered Ancestral Support roughly 15 times while casting it each time it was up. Often times the ward wasn't appearing in the group window yet my group was doing significant damage (over a million dps, all said). The max hit was 14k - not very significant. I was healing in the Main Tank group so some direct damage was coming our way that should have reflected the use of the ability.

AS does not monitor the damage that group done (as it is written in the description), instead, monitored the obtained loss , only red numbers, not damage before wards

This is true. Easy to test as well. Get rid of all your wards (cancel buffs and remove Spiritual Leadership from your AA). Pull some group of solo mobs but don't damage them. Cast Ancestral Support, wait a few seconds, and see messages from it warding you pop up. The total ward it gives is 40% of the damage you received. It does monitor the damage taken before wards are applied though, not after.

BUG: Ancestral Support monitors incoming damage, while the description states it monitors outgoing damage.

Past's Vengeance. About 2500 damage per hit (before crits and debuffs) in EM SS raidgear. Potential of about 30k dps in proper level 95 raidgear. Somewhat decent, but nothing special. But as it's on the heal tree, that's ok.

Whisper's of the Past. Can't complain about 6 seconds groupwide immunity to Root, Mezmerize, Stiffle, Daze, Stun and Feat that is aviable every AoE cycle. It does make the Immunization spell kinda pointless though unless you know a charm is incoming at a specific person.

Helpfull Spirits. Decent healproc with 15 second duration to proc it in. Heals for about 10k per proc with high proc rate. Can help, but is a bit unpredictable and as with all direct heal procs most of it gets wasted on people with full health.

Spiritual Stability. Reduced the recast and Immunization far enough to be up at each AoE cycle on most mobs. Makes it prevent interrupts due to moving, but not due to jumping or getting teleported. Prevents knockbacks. As you'll get Whisper's of the Past anyway if you like this spell, you won't actually be using it anymore to precast at AoE's with control effects, leaving it only for KB AoE's. Still requires precasting as it doesn't break control effects and can't be cast while moving or when getting knockbacked.

Mystic Ritual. Improved RoA to also give a damage proc when the target deals damage and a ward proc when the target casts heals. At 3 points, it does 6k to 11k damage per hit with EM SS raidgear (before crits and debuffs) with 6 procs / minute. Potential in proper level 95 raidgear around 20k dps.

The ward proc is useless. It is not going to proc because the usual targets for RoA do not cast many heals. The size of the ward it procs isn't all that good either, definately not enough to make you cast RoA on the second healer in your group.

Spiritual Medium. 2 points to give the group about 1400 hp and 114 or 71 of their primary stat. Kinda weak for that cost. Needs something extra.

Ferocity of Spirits. Could get to 2 increments after spending only 1 point in it, generally after about 15-18 seconds in combat. Didn't get to 3 increments very often. A second point would get me to 3 increments after about 25 seconds in combat. A third point did not give any noticable improvement. The increase in crit bonus is definately worth the points if you are either fighting something that takes a while to kill or are chainpulling. Otherwise it's useless because you won't get past the first increment due to the "can only proc once every 10 seconds" part.

Claws of the War Boar. Only activates once you reached the 3rd increment and only lasts for 10 seconds. You'll only get this buff at most once every ~45 seconds. Does 10k damage for me before crits and debuffs and could get 12 hits in during the duration. Potential of about 40k dps. If you are in a fight where you can manage to get this buff at a time where most your CA's are up and you are in melee range with time to use those CA's, it's a good buff.

Snow Rino's Power. Only activates once you reach the 2nd increment, and does not refresh when you get to the 3rd. Lasts for 15 seconds, so up at most a third of the time. With a 4.5 weapon damage bonus, this buff will give an overall increase in autoattack damage of about 1%. Potential of only 10k dps groupwide.

White Wolf's Howl. Actives when you reach the 1st increment and lasts for 15 seconds, but does not refresh when you get to the 2nd or 3rd. Can also trigger only once every 30 seconds to prevent cancelling Ferocity to make it proc more often. So up at most 33% of the time. Average of 5% increased heals and only up when you just start to dps and not when you stop to dps because you need to heal a bit.

Barrier of the Spirits. Wards for about 60% of Ancestral Ward per trigger. Not getting any crit bonus from Ferocity for 30 seconds (and the buffs from Claws, Power and Howl) hurts way more than this ward will help. Just one point if you got this far in the line though, so may be good for emergency purposes.

In my opinion, for DPS you are best of taking the conversions on both sides, 2 points in Ferocity and 3 points in Mystic Ritual. For healing, you are also best of taking the conversion on both sides, 3 in ancestral support and 2 in whispers of the past. Missing stun and fear immunity, but stiffles are more common anyway on AoE's you are supposed to cure.

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Old 11-08-2012, 11:03 AM   #78
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Just need replace Helpful Spirits to Whispers of the Past(5 or 7 sec per rank), or throw it... away

Healing proc in Prestige points is just a mockery of the class

need to give us at least a reactive or HoT proc

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Old 11-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #79
Ebofu

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Right side is looking pretty nice, just removal of the stupid trigger restrictions and completely scrap the end ability, its useless and a negative because the crit bonus from ferocity is worth more than an insubstational ward.

Could easily do something with stampede or make lunar attendant a dps pet, who knows, but in its current state no reason to waste a point in it.

Mystics ritual is SMILEY

Pro Tip: Double Conversion with 3 in ferocity parses the exact same as pure right side, so please tweak it because I loathe double conversion specs.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:51 PM   #80
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Concidering they only want to tweak numbers now, this is how I suggest fixing things so that dual conversion won't be the best option for everything anymore:

Helpfull Spirits: Halve the heal amount, but increase the proc chance to 100%. This should make it a lot more reliable.

Spiritual Stability: Also make it so Immunization can break control effects.

Mystic Ritual: Remove the ward proc and buff the damage proc.

Spiritual Medium: Double the size of the buff in addition to just making it groupwide.

Ferocity: Chance proc rate from [2, 4, 6] to [1, 4, 9] times per minute.

Claws of the War Boar: Reduce the damage slightly. Make it part of the Ferocity buff and be active whenever we are at 3 increments instead of it being a seperate buff.

Snow Rino's Power. Increase the weapon damage bonus to 0.7 per rank per increment. Make it part of the Ferocity buff and be active whenever we are at 2+ increments.

White Wolf's Howl: Reduce heal increase to 1% per rank per increment. Make it part of the Ferocity buff and be active whenever we are at 1+ increments instead of it being a seperate buff.

Barrier of the Spirits. Make the ward amount unaffected by increments of Ferocity and make it take only 1 increment instead of all increments whe used. Remove the 30 second of no ferocity procs. Give the spell a base reuse of 45 seconds.

Making the 3 upgrades to Ferocity part of the Ferocity buff instead of being seperate buffs removes the need for the 30 second part where they can't take effect at all, and all exploits around it. It also increases the uptime of those buffs so the power of the buffs doesn't have to be increased significantly.

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Old 11-08-2012, 01:56 PM   #81
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Ancestral Support is indeed royally bugged when dealing realistic amounts of damage and may need to have different functionality as a result. I can't believe that it's magically monitoring incoming damage for you guys, since that's not how it's designed. 

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions!

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Old 11-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #82
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The damage proc on Mystic's Ritual is already strong. Stop it.

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Old 11-08-2012, 03:11 PM   #83
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I would like to say in general I like Lemilla's suggestions with what to do with the abilities, personally I would never consider the left side due to its design, but I could see with those changes, some people liking it. Ok, a few observations: 1. Ferocity of Spirits - This procs fine when going full tilt on the dps, but the proc rate is a tad low if you start mixing healing in, but I can adjust for where it currently is at. When it reaches rank 3 the time on increment runs its 20 duration and resets it back to zero. So at best, you have about 5 seconds of no buff, 25 seconds of buff 1 and 2, and 20 seconds of buff 3. Any current usefulness calculations for this buff has to use that as a baseline max. Basically, I couldn't see any occasion where the time limitations ever came into play on the lower abilities with normal use. 2. Mystic's Ritual - The damage proc is decent enough, how about changing the heal component to be a ward that procs when a heal is cast on the target of RoA? After doing more testing, and thinking about it, current possible builds, even with fixes, most likely would still revolve around double conversion buffs if you are min maxing. That said, there is a fair amount more choice in the way you can build a useful double conversion build, which is a large step in the right direction. Here are things when fixed would be something to consider spending points in, with a double conversion build. 1. Whispers of the Past, note works great as is. 2. Snow Rhino's Power, note currently kinda of weak to consider, but I really really like the idea behind this buff. 3. White Wolf's Howl, note taken without double conversion, this is a heal loss, taken with double conversion, this is a nice healing bump. 4. Both middle abilities are also viable choices, I would like to see my suggestion for Mystic's Ritual done, but it still ok. Things that are still too weak to consider, are Past's Vengeance, the dps boost currently isn't worth the points, but if you follow Lemilla's suggestion it could be. Helpful Spirits currently isn't worth much of anything in its current form, also once again Lemilla's suggestion could fix this. Finally Claws of the Warboar, the personal dps gain from this is kinda sad currently, this needs a boost somehow to be worth it, also Lemilla's suggestion is nice too.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:55 PM   #84
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The intent of new RoA buff as far as I can tell is that it be useful on the second healer for harder fights instead of just dps. The ward proc needs it's trigger chance increased and a hot added on to it as well, if not an increase in the ward as well.

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:41 PM   #85
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Xelgad wrote:

Ancestral Support is indeed royally bugged when dealing realistic amounts of damage and may need to have different functionality as a result. I can't believe that it's magically monitoring incoming damage for you guys, since that's not how it's designed. 

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions!

I did alot of test with Ancestral support, It is bugged if you cast a spell or a combat art when ancestral support end, the ward wont trigger.

i didn't notice any ward from incoming damage. So it seem fine

If i do 55k damage in 6sec it will be a 3262 ward

If i do 1.2 million damage in 6sec it will be a 3262 ward

if i do 2 million damage in 6sec then it will be a 4600 ward

It seem  low and bugged

It should be a 0.003 ward per damage for the first 12million damage

Then a 0.001 ward per damage after

for exemple a group doing 2 million dps will have a 36k ward and a group doing 4 million dps will have a 48k ward

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:25 PM   #86
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You rock! Okay, found the bug preventing it from applying while the mystic casts other spells and buffed the ward value. Should be on beta tonight.

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:35 PM   #87
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Might have been that it still gives a small (2439) ward if you do 0 damage, which just happened to be 40% of the damage I took during the 6 seconds. Will see if I can test it again tomorrow with those bugs being fixed.

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Old 11-08-2012, 05:37 PM   #88
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It will always ward at least 5% of the mystic's maximum health.

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:03 PM   #89
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Buffra[email protected] Bayle wrote:

The intent of new RoA buff as far as I can tell is that it be useful on the second healer for harder fights instead of just dps. The ward proc needs it's trigger chance increased and a hot added on to it as well, if not an increase in the ward as well.

the problem with casting RoA on a healer is they if they are in even basic gear they  have the reuse/cast speed/recovery maxed already.... i would remove the ward proc and put in basic grp HOT and a small Mana regen...another idea make it so when i cast RoA it has a chance to proc on a random grp member along with the target...personaly i would love to see a VERY small grp mana regen 100 non criting with a small grp HOT 1k ish added and the ward removed

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #90
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Xelgad wrote:

Ancestral Support is indeed royally bugged when dealing realistic amounts of damage and may need to have different functionality as a result. I can't believe that it's magically monitoring incoming damage for you guys, since that's not how it's designed. 

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions!

sounds like it's working like totemic protection except it's doing the dmg numbers after wards.

i would compaire the code for totemic and spirt tap..you may find that if you turn the hp/mp from spirt tap into a replenishing ward for the 6sec  then have the replenishing ward no longer replenish affter 6 sec that but still last 30 sec maybe be the easyest way to code this... hope this helps

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