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Old 10-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #31
aeyinar

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Viromage wrote:

What i've seen in this thread is nothing but Mystic's suck, Mystic's are under powered. Some of you guys *cough* inspire1444568 *cough* are saying mystics suck and you should make us demi-gods. If you know how to play a mystic you should have no problem with cures with a 2nd cure Inquis would be useless. And we are not going to be replaced with druids they're near useless for tank group healing (how often do you look in channels and see someone looking for a druid?) we are not "Ward Bots" And a real raid guild does not even raid if they do no have a shaman in ATLEAST the MT and OT group. Plus if your specd for Spirit Dance you've failed and the only reason to spec for Spirit Aegis is if your MT group healing in progression like PoW or Totemic Protection for PvP. Lastly Spirit Tap has a 5 minute reuse and it last for 33s so your waiting 4min 27sec for the rebirth of jesus, If yours is longer than 5mins your reuse is to low.

The only flaws of a Mystic~

1- Immunizations or Ancestral Balm should be usable when under hsotile effects

2- Our rezzes should not have 2min 12sec rezz sickness

3- Ancestral Support should only have a 1min reuse

4- People who play mystics should really learn the class before they open their mouths

So next time you think mystics are "Underpowered ward bots" Please look over your spells. Torpor/Oberon regenerating wards, Spirit Tap /godmode. and dont forget a real mystic can throw out 200k+ dps in raid while healing in a tank group

when was the last time your raid guild said hey we will have the mystic solo heal the scout/mage grp? mine never if we need a healer to solo heal it's a warden inquis or furry due to the NEED for the good cures... 2nd say solo healing this mage grp when a aoe blocker is need a inquis can spec equil and death save there grp or IM and revive them with no rez effects ...a drd can just use TS .....i need to thow up aegis grp ward and a singles and hope it's enuff to save the grp and guess what! it won't =( then i need someone OUTSIDE of my dead grp to rez me... the sad fact is we are a 2nd rate healer due to the fact we NEED a 2nd healer to be out best a cleric or drd can do SOLO healing in ways i can only dream of mainly due to there ability to cure, resist control effects,self rez, aoe block,heal on melee/spell cast etc the list goes on...and yes we are ward bots becouse as far as NEEDED abiltys other then bolster spirt tap and wards what do we get? and while i find spirt tap insanely nice it's reuse with capped ability reuse still seems like forever

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Old 10-27-2012, 05:37 PM   #32
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This whole discussion on these prestige is actually quite funny to me, because both new trees are so bad, that any mystic that can actually do the math would be hard pressed too find a reason to EVER take them. First, for the people that think lowering the reuse to 60 seconds would make it worth it, your wrong, it would still be a bad choice. Granted at that point there MAY be some weird script in a fight somewhere where it might be worth it. The line would become decent somewhere between 30 to 45 seconds of reuse. Personally I would rather see the abilities in the line nerfed, and the reuse dropped to something like 15 seconds, at least then it might add some flavor to the class. The right side is plagued by a different issue tho. Basically the ward at the bottom doesn't even make up for the healing loss you have not taking the other sides conversion, and the dps abilities don't even make up for the sides conversion either. So, you lose both dps and healing going the right side, any way you slice it, the only thing you gain is weapon damage bonus and that is it. Basically all the new mystic prestige completely failed, because there is no reason to ever do anything other than take both conversions. While I don't have any fix suggestions in this post, sorry, I will see what I can think up to offer solid suggestions of how fix these prestige lines, without making them overpowered, but at the same time, not making them worthless.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:37 PM   #33
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Hennyo wrote:

This whole discussion on these prestige is actually quite funny to me, because both new trees are so bad, that any mystic that can actually do the math would be hard pressed too find a reason to EVER take them.

Agreed, Hene did the math earlier in this thread:

Hene wrote:

anyway, the current prestige abilities make me think it would be a waste to do anything other than get potency->CB as well as MA->potencythey are really lacking in substance: 15k(?) proc for 6 sec every 1.5min - aka crappy PoM or stampede; or 50k ward once every 1.5-2 minutes? (well if you are doing 15k HPS with 300 potency, 20 more potency will in theory increase your heals by 5% or 750 HPS or 68k-90k extra healing over those same 1.5 to 2 minutesI really can't justify skipping out on extra CB or extra potency and bolster damage proc for any of the options out there (though CC immunity might be nice)

It's disappointing that it it not even a toss up between the DoV prestige and the CoE prestige, CoE should be way better than the DoV, not substantially worse

Hennyo wrote:

First, for the people that think lowering the reuse to 60 seconds would make it worth it, your wrong, it would still be a bad choice. Granted at that point there MAY be some weird script in a fight somewhere where it might be worth it. The line would become decent somewhere between 30 to 45 seconds of reuse. Personally I would rather see the abilities in the line nerfed, and the reuse dropped to something like 15 seconds, at least then it might add some flavor to the class. The right side is plagued by a different issue tho. Basically the ward at the bottom doesn't even make up for the healing loss you have not taking the other sides conversion, and the dps abilities don't even make up for the sides conversion either. So, you lose both dps and healing going the right side, any way you slice it, the only thing you gain is weapon damage bonus and that is it. Basically all the new mystic prestige completely failed, because there is no reason to ever do anything other than take both conversions. While I don't have any fix suggestions in this post, sorry, I will see what I can think up to offer solid suggestions of how fix these prestige lines, without making them overpowered, but at the same time, not making them worthless.

The 60 sec vs 45 sec vs 30 sec reuse is a good point, with the current reuse, full moon+potency end line+CB endline will do waaaay more than either endline with the CoE prestige on top of that, it may take a reuse closer to 30-45 sec to make it worthwhile, or increase the duration, or increase the damage

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Old 10-28-2012, 07:47 AM   #34
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Viromage wrote:

What i've seen in this thread is nothing but Mystic's suck, Mystic's are under powered. Some of you guys *cough* inspire1444568 *cough* are saying mystics suck and you should make us demi-gods. If you know how to play a mystic you should have no problem with cures with a 2nd cure Inquis would be useless. And we are not going to be replaced with druids they're near useless for tank group healing (how often do you look in channels and see someone looking for a druid?), we are not "Ward Bots" And a real raid guild does not even raid if they do no have a shaman in ATLEAST the MT and OT group. Plus if your specd for Spirit Dance you've failed and the only reason to spec for Spirit Aegis is if your MT group healing in progression like PoW or Totemic Protection for PvP. Lastly Spirit Tap has a 5 minute reuse and it last for 33s so your waiting 4min 27sec for the rebirth of jesus, If yours is longer than 5mins your reuse is to low.

The only flaws of a Mystic~

1- Immunizations or Ancestral Balm should be usable when under hsotile effects

2- Our rezzes should not have 2min 12sec rezz sickness

3- Ancestral Support should only have a 1min reuse

4- People who play mystics should really learn the class before they open their mouths

So next time you think mystics are "Underpowered ward bots" Please look over your spells. Torpor/Oberon regenerating wards, Spirit Tap /godmode. and dont forget a real mystic can throw out 200k+ dps in raid while healing in a tank group! (say it to Glokus or Commander Corpsemaul when you're in MT group)

Thank you for your EQU signature.

Ancestral Support monitoring incoming damage after other wards and may be there is nothing to monitor. We can improve our class without entering a dubious achievements. So I suggest the following changes:

 Remove  Ancestral Support (yes again) and replaced with Enchance:Spirit Aegis.

*Rank 1 - reduce the base reuse time to 160sec, base cast time to 5,4 sec

*Rank 2 - reuse to 140s, cast to 4,8s

 *Rank 3 - reuse to 120s, cast to 4s

With this SA will become more used with 30sec timer of majority AoE.

Replace the associated achievements on:

 Enchance:Torpor. Rank 1 - root immunity. Rank 2 - fear immunity. Rank 3 - knockback immunity (for tank with love)

  EnchanceSMILEYebuffs  Rank 1 - increases the duration of Haze, Deteriorate, lethargy to 48s. Rank 2 - to 60s. Rank3 - to 72s.

  Enchance: Enchanced Concentration - increases the number of spells in motion to 3/4/5.

Next change the mechanics of the Lunar Attendant - 1 tick per 4s, restore 1% MP & HP per tick. Replace Gray Recollection on  Enchance: Lunar Attendant -  increases the amount of MP & HP regen to 2%, grants Attendant non-direct area effect immunity.

Spiritual Stability ..... AND immunization may cast under control effects.

Shaman tree -  we have obsolete achievement Withcdoctor's Herbal Recipe that reduse our group cure reuse but we not need in it with current equipment. I propose to change the effect on reduction reuse base time by 1.25sec per rank.

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:23 AM   #35
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Viromage wrote:

we are not "Ward Bots" And a real raid guild does not even raid if they do no have a shaman in ATLEAST the MT and OT group.

Fantastic arguments! We do nt ward bots, because we - ward bots!

Seriously, dude... generally... raids are not looking mystic - raids are looking shaman (now a priority, defiler)

simply because we - warders

And yes! I need add. extra-cure in heroic dungeons... sometimes

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:36 AM   #36
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Viromage wrote:

So next time you think mystics are "Underpowered ward bots" Please look over your spells. Torpor/Oberon regenerating wards, Spirit Tap /godmode. and dont forget a real mystic can throw out 200k+ dps in raid while healing in a tank group!

OKay, we - OP WARD BOTS for two (or something like this) mobs !

Maranono wrote:

Ancestral Support monitoring incoming damage after other wards and may be there is nothing to monitor. We can improve our class without entering a dubious achievements. So I suggest the following changes:

 Remove  Ancestral Support (yes again) and replaced with Enchance:Spirit Aegis.

*Rank 1 - reduce the base reuse time to 160sec, base cast time to 5,4 sec

*Rank 2 - reuse to 140s, cast to 4,8s

 *Rank 3 - reuse to 120s, cast to 4s

With this SA will become more used with 30sec timer of majority AoE.

It's OK, but Ancestral Support should be moved to heroic-three (replace from Aegis)

hmm ... read my thoughts)

The problem is that these suggestions are likely to not even be read, because

Now any suggestion to improve our class is blocked by the words "you have wards"/

But better still try...

The one who wants too much risks losing everything. Of course, the one who wants out of life is too small, can not get anything -с.

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Old 10-28-2012, 09:13 AM   #37
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Hennyo wrote:

This whole discussion on these prestige is actually quite funny to me, because both new trees are so bad, that any mystic that can actually do the math would be hard pressed too find a reason to EVER take them.

YES! as usual =

Sorry for doublepost, but this quote to stick on the SOEs forehead

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Old 10-28-2012, 12:59 PM   #38
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I don't think a viable answer is to completely scrap the current abilties, considering all it would take is some tweaking to make those worthwhile.

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Old 10-28-2012, 01:46 PM   #39
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+1 for buffing the current prestige abilities and not scrapping them completely. Significantly lower the recast on Ancestral Support and have it monitor the total group dps to break into individual wards, and add a control break to immunities.

If at any point while playing a shaman you feel only to be a ward bot, please reference the other keys on your hotbar and begin contributing to your raid or group fully. It's not that people aren't recruiting mystics ... many, many raid guilds are. It's that they're not recruiting mystics who only play half their class. While not nearly as easy (or effective), there's been nothing in this game I haven't healed that a defiler has.I may just take the advice of others and go for both conversion lines, because Umbral Barrier is awesome and so is Full Moon. Umbral Barrier is pretty irreplacable in my playstyle.

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Old 10-28-2012, 02:53 PM   #40
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ChrissyFaey wrote:

If at any point while playing a shaman you feel only to be a ward bot, please reference the other keys on your hotbar and begin contributing to your raid or group fully. It's not that people aren't recruiting mystics ... many, many raid guilds are. It's that they're not recruiting mystics who only play half their class. While not nearly as easy (or effective), there's been nothing in this game I haven't healed that a defiler has.

Agreed.  Also, it appears that there are not many mystics around to begin with, let alone mystics that try to get the most out of their class.  The new mystic prestige may even further diminish the low number of mystics around.  With the likely resurgance of templars, mystics may fall to the least played healer class (and one of the least played classes in general).

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:01 PM   #41
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Left side endline is great. Right side endline is great. Just need to work on the stuff in between the conversion and the endline.

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:15 PM   #42
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ChrissyFaey wrote:

+1 for buffing the current prestige abilities and not scrapping them completely. Significantly lower the recast on Ancestral Support and have it monitor the total group dps to break into individual wards, and add a control break to immunities.

If at any point while playing a shaman you feel only to be a ward bot, please reference the other keys on your hotbar and begin contributing to your raid or group fully. It's not that people aren't recruiting mystics ... many, many raid guilds are. It's that they're not recruiting mystics who only play half their class. While not nearly as easy (or effective), there's been nothing in this game I haven't healed that a defiler has.I may just take the advice of others and go for both conversion lines, because Umbral Barrier is awesome and so is Full Moon. Umbral Barrier is pretty irreplacable in my playstyle.

I agree completely.  I love my Mystic and I semi-retired Tylia to make my Mystic my raiding main.  There is so much more to a Mystic than just a "ward bot".

The prestige trees need some fixing here and there though, and I am not thrilled about having to spend so many points to get both Umbral Barrier and Full Moon.  Since we have the choice of spllitting our choices between trees now, why take that away?

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:03 AM   #43
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ChrissyFaey wrote:

Mystic Prestige Advancement

I've leveled only to 93 currently so abilities beyond that are currently speculation based on reading the information provided. These are just my opinions so feel free to voice your own.

Left Side ~

Ancestral Supprt - Group AE; 9s Recast, 2s Duration. Monitors damage done by group members and converts a potion of that damage into a ward for the group member. Applies individually for each group member.This is 6 seconds at rank 3 - so not nearly as bad as I initially thought! But the following still applies: It might be better if it calculated the total damage done, divide the number by 6, then apply an individual ward to everyone based on the average. That way I get a nice ward, and the tank does too. Thanks, scouts!

would like to see this changed into a stoneskin for 6 sec that would be way more useful

Past's Vengeance - Ancestral Support gains 33 percent chance to inflict magic damage to enemies. All damage is attributed to the mystic.This is awesome now too.

leave this as is

Whispers of the Past - Ancestral Support will make the group immune to mesmerize and root.I am not sure what I am supposed to do with 2-6 seconds of root and mesmerize immunity. Wardens already have group root immunity that works all the time, so the value of two seconds leaves something to be desired. I'd rather not step on their toes at all. This prestige needs to be retought entirely.

Edit: This ability got a lot better as of last night. Thanks! This is MUCH more awesome.

lets make this so rank one incresses the base of wards of eidolon and eidlic ward by 100% (ancestral ward and umbral barrier do more right now) rank 2 add the ability to cast while stuned/stifled and an aoe blocker effect rank 3 adds a cure when the ward is cast .. the long reuse on these keeps it balanced

Helpful Spirits - Ancestral Support will apply a buff that heals the mystic's allies when they attack.This lasts longer than Ancestral Support, so this is also awesome.

like this

Spiritual Stability - Immunization makes the target immune to most knockdowns and allows them to cast while moving. Immunization cast time is reduced to 0.5 seconds base and the reuse time is reduced to 90 seconds base.This one is fairly respectable. Since there are War Runes coming out with similar abilities to this soon, my request is that we add the ability to cast immunities while under control effects as well.  I would love you for approx. one expansion, if you do this!

i would make it so imnunization has the effects added one rank one rank 2 should make it grp and rank 3 should add a cure to this and leave the recast alone

Right Side~

Ferocity of Spirits - On a melee hit it casts Ferocity of Spirits ~ 5 percent chance to have an auto attack strike the target multiple times.This amounts to 5 Flurry at each rank, with 15 Flurry being the maximum... which is to say, it's comparable to a few reforges or two good gear upgrades that have that stat present. That's only if I keep my auto attack going during the fight - if I stop, the ability drops down to nothingness. It seems a little underwhelming for only a 15 flurry net yield. I'm hoping this entire line gets revamped - maybe something along the lines of a 1/2 stampede.

lets just make this add the flurry to bolster and stampede...

Claws of the War Boar - Grants the mystic additional triggered damage when they reach three increments of ferocity of spirits.Does a rather nice amount of damage. About 2 percent of my whole DPS 21k median hit. Does crit.

drop this make this spirt blast ... when spirt tap is active any unused mana or hp regened is Monitored and a % is turned into a dps nuke at the end

Snow Rhino's Power - Increases the weapon damage bonus of group members by 1.5 when the mystic is at level two ferocity of spirits.Battle Prowess increases Weapon Damage Bonus by 20,  Ethereal Weaponry AA by 15.  I feel this should lend a little more, considering it cannot trigger but once every 15 seconds.

lets make this add a mana proc to stampede and bolster ie a small one

White Wolf's Howl - Increase the amount of the mystic's wards when the mystic gets one increment of Ferocity of Spirits.I do like bigger wards. Since I won't want to joust due to meleeing, it will be nice to keep me alive~ This scales to 9 percent so is really awesome.

lets make this a dmg proc on torpor or something

change this to add Barrier of Spirits - Strips Ferocity of Spirits to apply a large ward. Instant Cast.Viable only if meleeing, but the 4 second recast and instant cast does make this one fairly awesome by examine. Upon testing, it does about 53k for me at level 3, 344cb/372 Potency.

lets make this cure ward last 15 sec provents 151 lvls of negitive effects on each grp member this ward expires when 1 hostile effect is provented ...rank 2 incresses the dur to 25 sec rank 3 to 35 sec and adds a 2nd trigger recast is 60 sec with max reuse

Middle AbilitySpiritual Medium - Makes Ancestral Avatar apply to the mystic's group.This is awesome. Thanks!

like this alot but would be better if it was group bolster!

It's really grown on me that I can rez like inquisitors cure.

i would replace the rez like with the same prestige as the other pet classes get that reduces the dmg done to the pet 10% per rank . i would also make a change to all the "pet barrier" prestige for all the pet classes to include the pet getting 25% per rank of the there owners melee skills..

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Old 10-31-2012, 03:45 PM   #44
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Defiler

Spiritwrath is now a replacement for Putrefy. It increments to 5, but the wisdom debuff and initial damage do not benefit from more increments. The damage over time and STR, AGI and INT all are multiplied by the increment amount on the target.

Spiritual Sacrifice is now a single target ability that can be cast on any player member of the defiler's raid, but not the defiler. It lasts until cancelled, and drops of the defiler zones. If the player dies while this buff is active, their group will gain damage reduction for a short duration. This spell has no casting time, no recovery time and can be cast while casting other spells. Toggling this spell off does not trigger the reuse.

Wraithwall and Spiritual Sacrifice do not work for or against Empowered Barrier.

Spiritual Dominion is now Empowered Dominion. Whenever the defiler casts spells that are not Ancient Shroud, Deathward or Death Cries, the group gains increased Crit Bonus. This increments up to 12 times. The Crit Bonus buff is dispelled when Deathward, Death Cries or Ancient Shroud is cast.

Ethereal Souls now increases the amount of Crit Bonus granted by Spiritual Dominion by 33%, 66% and 100% by rank.

Spirit Domination now improves the base casting speeds of Ancient Shroud, Deathward and Death Cries as it increments.

Spiritarmor now allows Spiritual Dominion to increase the group's mitigation. This effect is multiplied by the number of increments of Spiritual Dominion.We'd like something like these, only in Mystic Flavor. Our Prestige abilities are just looking worse and worse with each successive update that doesn't address them. It's to the point that if you were to change things to the bare minimum of what we've requested, it'd still not be nearly as good as our counterparts or other healers at the moment.

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Old 11-01-2012, 12:20 AM   #45
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We know you're underpowered (at least the left side), but we've been focused on the lines that are so bad they wouldn't even be fun or useful if they were balanced correctly! When we get to priest balance in a few days, you'll probably see a ton of buffs (and maybe some nerfs) for each class all at once.

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Old 11-01-2012, 12:45 AM   #46
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Since you are looking at abilities....what are your plans for temp pets ? Almost every class has them, and they are all useless. The player base has been asking for these to be fixed every...single...xpac, and we've gotten nada. SF beta i think they got changed to be affected just like summoner pets, and they were great, altho still not AoE immune. Can these finally be looked at and something done about them ?

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Old 11-01-2012, 12:50 AM   #47
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Xelgad wrote:

We know you're underpowered (at least the left side), but we've been focused on the lines that are so bad they wouldn't even be fun or useful if they were balanced correctly! When we get to priest balance in a few days, you'll probably see a ton of buffs (and maybe some nerfs) for each class all at once.

Thank you very much! We were worried in seeing all the others getting tweaking when our left side was so bad. We're definitely hoping for some viable healing abilities for when we're required to focus on it.

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:24 AM   #48
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Xelgad wrote:

We know you're underpowered (at least the left side), but we've been focused on the lines that are so bad they wouldn't even be fun or useful if they were balanced correctly! When we get to priest balance in a few days, you'll probably see a ton of buffs (and maybe some nerfs) for each class all at once.

Great news! thanks for keeping us in the loop

Also, wanted to re-point out that the right side is similarly unwhelming: small flurry amount that isn't even up all the time, decent damage proc (again, not up all the time), ridiculously tiny weapon damage bonus that is also not up all the time, decent ward but only wards for a good amount best-case once per 30 seconds and possibly only once per 90 seconds

But I think it has gone relatively un-discussed as most mystics will be interested in the left, crit bonus, DPS side

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Old 11-01-2012, 06:03 AM   #49
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Hene wrote:

Xelgad wrote:

We know you're underpowered (at least the left side), but we've been focused on the lines that are so bad they wouldn't even be fun or useful if they were balanced correctly! When we get to priest balance in a few days, you'll probably see a ton of buffs (and maybe some nerfs) for each class all at once.

Great news! thanks for keeping us in the loop

Also, wanted to re-point out that the right side is similarly unwhelming: small flurry amount that isn't even up all the time, decent damage proc (again, not up all the time), ridiculously tiny weapon damage bonus that is also not up all the time, decent ward but only wards for a good amount best-case once per 30 seconds and possibly only once per 90 seconds

Ancestral Support  monitor damage after wards, this is the main problem of this ability, AS should monitor the incoming damage before wards, because I always get 1point ward after 6sec.

Past's Vengeance should work as Helpful Spirits - additional buff when AS is triggers with 20-25sec duration, and the damage is soooo low, double his.

Whisper of the Past - same problem - additional buff with 30sec duration.

Ferocity of Spirits - we only have a 10-second interval to increase FS counter, so increase duration to 30sec. Why we can not update the status of a triple FS?

Snows Rhino's Power -  it's not even funny - increase weapon damage bonus to 7% per rank and duration.... maybe it will last until FS won't stop?

Claws of the War Boar - same issue with duration.

Barrier of the Spirits -  little interesting ward value of which almost 3 times less than the solo ward with damage stance at the same time we are losing all our FS's as said  Hene 'a good amount best-case once per 30 seconds and possibly only once per 90 seconds' . May replace it on the improvement of the Stampede with improvement of the duration to 30sec and reduction base reuse time to 4min?

Please do something with the Lunar Attendant that he regenerate HP by percentage and add mana regen and self antiAoE.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:21 PM   #50
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There's been some misconceptions regarding Ancestral Support... It does not monitor damage done TO the group, but FROM the group. You're getting a 1 point ward because it is monitoring your own DPS and then warding you based upon it ... which is rather weak, and favors any DPS classes in your group more than healers and tanks. It's somewhat like Spirit Tap in that it will heal based on the group damage - but like spirit tap, it needs to be group-wide since not everyone has the ability to hit 700k.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:36 PM   #51
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How about swapping  umbral barrier for the rez single Prestige.

that way we will get something usefull whichever path we choose to follow !

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:14 PM   #52
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Xelgad wrote:

We know you're underpowered (at least the left side), but we've been focused on the lines that are so bad they wouldn't even be fun or useful if they were balanced correctly! When we get to priest balance in a few days, you'll probably see a ton of buffs (and maybe some nerfs) for each class all at once.

The left side is horrible too!

Honestly ...

This whole discussion on these prestige is actually quite funny to me, because both new trees are so bad, that any mystic that can actually do the math would be hard pressed too find a reason to EVER take them. 
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Old 11-01-2012, 03:17 PM   #53
inspire1444568

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Maranono wrote:

Please do something with the Lunar Attendant that he regenerate HP by percentage and add mana regen and self antiAoE.

ORAnd instant cast =)

And, please stop making abilities that ignore wards

If other classes are not satisfied with their healing parses (LOL LOL LOL) - let DPS`)

Because, we have wards... and this is the only useful that we have now = Or give us as much interesting abilities which have other classes! (Steadfast, equilibrium, sandstorm... etc.)

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:07 PM   #54
aeyinar

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inspire1444568 wrote:

Maranono wrote:

Please do something with the Lunar Attendant that he regenerate HP by percentage and add mana regen and self antiAoE.

ORAnd instant cast =)

And, please stop making abilities that ignore wards

If other classes are not satisfied with their healing parses (LOL LOL LOL) - let DPS`)

Because, we have wards... and this is the only useful that we have now = Or give us as much interesting abilities which have other classes! (Steadfast, equilibrium, sandstorm... etc.)

i want to make a note on healing parses....lets say your mage grp furry who does a great job solo healing has a mystic with the due to a extra healer on ...that furry normally pareses lets say 16k hp...if you stick a mystic with this furry there parses will go down to say 6k the mystic will do 12k  due to the fact wards are normally the first thing to count on a parses this makes us look way better on parses then other healer classes...i point this out becouse while wards are a POWERFUL tool  they also have a negitive effect on the parse of the other healer classes and make us look better in some ways then we are..

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Old 11-02-2012, 02:08 AM   #55
ChrissyFaey

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Alright, so I did some raiding tonight. Since our other mystic was speccing left side, I decided to go ahead and be the one to test right side .... and it was a horrible let down.

On the majority of trash fights I was fortunate if I saw it reach level 2 - with level 3 being some significant rarity. Sure, Claws of the War Boar hit for 140k but seeing it only 68 times in an hour total of fighting meant it was about two percent of my DPS parse.  We're looking at 15 flurry max, 2 percent dps increase, some arbitrary ward increase, and a 60k ward (Barrier of the Spirits) if we feel like sacrificing all of those other things ... if it's up.  I wanted to like it because it looked better than left side, but it was so horrible it's worthless. I don't mean to toss away all the hard work of the devs, but I'd love if all this side was scrapped and redone. It's just ... so unusuable.As for my other mystic friend testing our left line and casting it whenever it was up - Helpful Spirits did about 1 percent of her parse - admittably, her wards weren't down often but it was still a poor showing. Triggered 10 times to an effective block (probably was up more) ... The damage effect was 8k dps zw for her with the constant clicking.Both extremely underwhelming. The only thing I will miss about going dual conversions is group avatar - the rest is a wash, and I'm praying both sides get tweaking by Xelgad before it goes live. All the feedback on the right side looked good on paper but isn't. None of it is. Help!Edit: We checked and can take group avatar while still having the conversions. One consolation to otherwise unusuable AA's!Here's some screenshots! Sure, it may look like Ancestral Support hit often but considering it's 55 minutes of fighting, spread out between 6 people per trigger? Blargh.

And for Ferocity.. You can see Claws of the War Boar in this parse.

Dual Conversions gives me 30 potency instead.  That exceeds the value of the rare 3-level ferocity ward increase, the 2 percent damage, barrier, and the 4.5 weapon damage bonus. The posters above regarding it being superior were absolutely correct. SMILEY

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:38 PM   #56
Hennyo

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Well, here is some feedback ideas I have about the new prestige. I still stand by my previous statements, the current prestige are just really really bad. The left side: 1. Change Ancestral support into an incremental spell with a 15 second recast. Max increments 15, with a 25 second window to cast a new increment. 2. Past's Vengeance - have it grow with every increment of ancestral support, where at 15 increments it is as strong as it is right now. Have all the damage recorded to the players that triggered it. 3. Whispers of the past - Have this work at 5 triggers of Ancestral support. The 4 trigger duration should be 1 second. Have every additional trigger add 0.5 seconds to the duration of the ability, when you use this, you consume all your triggers. 1 second + 10 x 0.5 second = 6 seconds 4. Helpful Spirits - Have this trigger every time you gain increment number 5. The duration should be 30 seconds. 5. Spiritual Stability - Same as now, but add snare immunity and 20 percent in combat run speed to the buff. The Right Side: This side has a complicated issue, the conversion from above is significantly worse than the left side. Basically there is this misconception that potency is worth significantly more to a mystic than critical bonus is, and having worked the math out on this, it just simply is NOT the case. The current conversion rate of 30 to 1 is just horrible, to make it even with the left conversion, it would need to be either 22 or 23 to 1. I believe that a ratio of 25 to 1 would make this conversion bearable from a balance standpoint for future prestige. 1. Ferocity of Spirits - The increments show up on the buff in Spell Effects, but not Maintained Spells, making it very hard to keep track of where you are at. Change the duration to be 24 seconds instead of 20. Add 5 percent weapon damage bonus to the mystic personally each increment, and 5 percent AOE auto per increment. Also, make the buff, also apply to the dog. 2. Claws of the War Boar - Change the effect to be that this triggers every time that Ferocity of Spirits would increment but doesn't because it is already at level 3. 3. Snow Rhino's Power - Make the Weapon Damage bonus be 2 percent per rank, also make this a maintained buff once you have 2 increments. If you absolutely can't make this maintained, have it last at least 24 seconds. 4. White Wolf's Howl - Make this a group buff that effects all heals, also make it 4 percent per rank instead of 3. 5. Barrier of the Spirits - Increase the ward amount to where it is somewhere in between a single target ward and Oberon. Add a hot to the ward that equals the size of the ward over the 10 second duration. Add 1.5 percent Damage reduction per increment used to buff.(4.5 percent total) Also make it a 2 detriment single target cure when used at 3 increments only. These are just some ideas of how these abilities could be buffed to actually be interesting and useful to mystics. Personally I don't really think any of this is that overpowered, but obviously stuff would need to be tested and adjusted appropriately.

EDIT: I would also like to point out another issue with the top of the left side, is that the ability reset isn't as good. First, I think that Ancesteral Channeling is just a better skill to have reset period, due to what it is, and the heroic AA modifying it. Next, the primary thing that resets the right side is your group ward, and bolster is what resets the left side, win again on the right side. Then the right side has a 100 percent reset chance with Wards of the Eidolon, while the left side has nothing. I really think that at the very minium, the left side should gain a 100 percent reset from something, I nominate Ancestral Savior for this.

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Old 11-03-2012, 06:54 PM   #57
inspire1444568

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aeyinar wrote:

inspire1444568 wrote:

Maranono wrote:

Please do something with the Lunar Attendant that he regenerate HP by percentage and add mana regen and self antiAoE.

ORAnd instant cast =)

And, please stop making abilities that ignore wards

If other classes are not satisfied with their healing parses (LOL LOL LOL) - let DPS`)

Because, we have wards... and this is the only useful that we have now = Or give us as much interesting abilities which have other classes! (Steadfast, equilibrium, sandstorm... etc.)

i want to make a note on healing parses....lets say your mage grp furry who does a great job solo healing has a mystic with the due to a extra healer on ...that furry normally pareses lets say 16k hp...if you stick a mystic with this furry there parses will go down to say 6k the mystic will do 12k  due to the fact wards are normally the first thing to count on a parses this makes us look way better on parses then other healer classes...i point this out becouse while wards are a POWERFUL tool  they also have a negitive effect on the parse of the other healer classes and make us look better in some ways then we are..

Excuse me, of course ... other classes have more exclusive abilities - better protection against stunsstifle etc. , stoneskins and ward too (clerics f%&%), best group dps buffs (and still cry), and defenserez buffs... It is these abilities make game more interesting!

Steafast breaks many encounters... I repeat =

I mean it is =)

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Old 11-04-2012, 05:43 PM   #58
Hene

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So, just to reiterate what has been said already with some more numbers about double conversion versus finishing off the right side (assuming around 320 crit bonus and 290 potency):

A) Potent Medium would give 29 extra CB + umbral barrier and ancestral channeling reset.  Summary:

  • (349+130) Crit mult / (320+130) Crit mult > 6% extra output on crit modifiable heals, spells, CAs up all the time
  • (349/2+115) Ward crit mult / (320/2+115) Ward crit mult > 5% extra output on crit'ing wards up all the time
  • Extra benefits from umbral barrier and channeling reset

versusB) Finishing the right side: ferocity of spirits will build up to rank 3 roughly once every 50-60 seconds (assuming you are pretty much just DPSing), triggering damage portion of claws probably 2-4 times in its 10 sec duration (once per minute), and having snow rhino's power up for 15 sec also once per minute.  Decent ward, up also once per minute if you want to sacrifice your DPS buffs, BUT you must be DPSing in the first place to get this ward.   Summary:

  • ~2% extra DPS for you from claws on fights where you get to DPS most/all the time
  • 4.5 weapon damage bonus up ~30% of the time, so assuming you are in a group with avg of 1.5 weapon damage bonus to begin with, that is on average (1.5135/1.5) < 1% to auto attack alone, assuming auto attack is roughly 40% of their parse, this adds roughly 1/3 of a percent (0.36%) to your group's dps assuming everyone is getting that much from their auto attack (overestimate)
  • Assuming 15k HPS to begin with, assuming you can get ferocity of spirits to proc 3 times in your minute window, you could add and extra 5.5% to max healing output at the cost of DPS buffs if you use the super short duration ward
  • Extra 2.25% on wards on average (again, only up ~15 seconds per minute)

To even make the right side competative with potent medium, big things need to be done to the proc chance, proc limits, AND the actual values.  No one in their right mind is going to take that sort of hit to DPS and healing for some procs that are infrequent at best with laughable effects

The proc idea in the first place seems like a lose-lose design.  Either when the proc is up, the effect is going to sounds super OP, or the effect sounds reasonable and performs abysmally.  There could be a couple solutions:

  • Make it 15% flurry up all the time, 20% weapon damage bonus up all the time (would add around 5% dps to scouts in your group via auto attack increase and a little less for you and tank and mages), change the ward to something more like the defiler ward, wraithwall, only wards when the target is low on HP, quick recast, quick cast, and decent ward size (not sure what to do with the increase ward size proc...)
  • 30 sec buff 120 sec recast, with 30% personal flurry, 40% group-wide weapon damage bonus, some increase to ward size for you and/or increased healing recieved or maybe a heal proc, then, again, change the ward to something more like the defiler ward, wraithwall, only wards when the target is low on HP, quick recast, quick cast, and decent ward size
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #59
Hennyo

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Hene, I would just like you to know, your numbers are significantly off from what actually happens due to a few simple mistakes. But they do make a good base idea to work from. 1. The better the gear, the more someone benefits from the double conversion, this can be easy enough to see. In raids right now, before CoE gear, I am at around 400 potency in group all the time while in combat. I also sit at around the same for CB as well. 2. You don't take into consideration ability mod at all, more potency means larger amounts of effective ability mod before you cap. Crit bonus also affects additional ability mod, making healing and ward numbers significantly higher than your estimates in real practice. This of course assumes you can hit and stay at ability mod cap all the time, which I currently do. 3. To even use these prestige abilities requires players to hit a number of extra buttons which take time away from pressing other buttons. The extra time it takes to use stuff all has to be figured into the efficiency chart, to get a fair comparison. Also these prestige increase the awareness load a person has to have to take advantage of them, anytime something requires more skill, it should also come with more power as a reward for handling it. The further you actually look at these prestige in depth, the worse they look.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:06 PM   #60
Hene

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Hennyo wrote:

Hene, I would just like you to know, your numbers are significantly off from what actually happens due to a few simple mistakes. But they do make a good base idea to work from. 1. The better the gear, the more someone benefits from the double conversion, this can be easy enough to see. In raids right now, before CoE gear, I am at around 400 potency in group all the time while in combat. I also sit at around the same for CB as well.

All this was doing is trying to show how bad these abilities are on a typical mystic and I assumed pretty typical stat values. As your stats increase, you get more from the conversions, but you also get relatively less and less out of each point of potency, so it's counterating diminishing and increasing returns.

For example: from 100 to 200 potency, you get a relative 50% increase on spells/CAs, but from 200 to 300 potency, you only get a relative 33% increase on spells/CAs.

Hennyo wrote:

2. You don't take into consideration ability mod at all, more potency means larger amounts of effective ability mod before you cap. Crit bonus also affects additional ability mod, making healing and ward numbers significantly higher than your estimates in real practice. This of course assumes you can hit and stay at ability mod cap all the time, which I currently do.

Most (if not all) mystics are not capped on ability mod on a lot of their spells.

Again, I think you are completely missing the point, all this was trying to do was to illustrate how bad these abilities are on a typical mystic.

Also, 400 CB and pot simultaneously seems nearly impossible with the gear currently available in the game (outside of possibly getting an insane number of buffs from other characters), I guarantee that there are almost no mystics around (if any at all) that have stats that high currently.  The mystic with a public eq2 profile with the highest solo CB is greekarosx with 372 CB (and 303 potency); the mystic with a public eq2 profile with the highest potency is lucchese with 345 potency (and 366 CB)

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