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Old 04-03-2012, 04:22 PM   #61
slippery

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Plane of War, the forgotten zone with itemization that got replaced by tradeskill apprentice raid items.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:34 PM   #62
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Its pretty obvious whats went wrong, why such a delay to fix it?

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Old 04-03-2012, 11:09 PM   #63
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[email protected] wrote:

Its pretty obvious whats went wrong, why such a delay to fix it?

The players took too long to get into PoW. Had they performed better, the gear would still be relevant. But Skyshrine comes out in two weeks, so now they will just have to deal with being defeated by SoE's superior mechanics.

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Old 04-03-2012, 11:56 PM   #64
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~50 mobs, 10 items

love the rng

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Old 04-04-2012, 07:11 AM   #65
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[email protected] wrote:

Its pretty obvious whats went wrong, why such a delay to fix it?

Must be an obvious thing for anybody who raids, do any of the devs raid these days?

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Old 04-05-2012, 01:30 PM   #66
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Seriously?

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Old 04-05-2012, 02:32 PM   #67
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Seriously?

That ain't rain you are feeling.

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Old 04-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #68
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Looks like raiding and progression in general is pretty pointless. I take it we should expect this kind of quality in the future?

A whole zone or more will have 70% or so of its bosses unkillable for around 6 - 8 months, while the gear inside, despite the place in progression and level of challenge will be replaced by mastercrafted and easy mode gear in another 2 level increase.

It's nice to know that our efforts, and ability to deal with broken content amounts to that.

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Old 04-05-2012, 11:30 PM   #69
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[email protected] wrote:

Looks like raiding and progression in general is pretty pointless. I take it we should expect this kind of quality in the future?

A whole zone or more will have 70% or so of its bosses unkillable for around 6 - 8 months, while the gear inside, despite the place in progression and level of challenge will be replaced by mastercrafted and easy mode gear in another 2 level increase.

It's nice to know that our efforts, and ability to deal with broken content amounts to that.

Saw this in EQ1 too. But you see it in almost every mmorpg. It's called mudflation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation

So more and more currency and power is stored in the world. Players become wealthy and will spend tons and tons of money or resources for even small little things just because they can. New players coming into the game cannot afford anything because the higher level players are buying things for alts or so on. There're lots and lots of anti-mudflation measures. For example, one could put money sinks into the game so as a player levels up they will spend their wealth. The bottom line is that new players are excluded from enjoying the game and they need to be protected.

There's also the issue that online games become top heavy and the rate of new incoming players can fall over time. This means less players are entering the game and levelling up. This can have a large impact on grouping or economy or social meetings at the lower levels and make the game not as fun. Again, this has to do with protecting new players. So one thing that might happen is they give new players more abilities or they make it easier for them to do things alone or to even group with higher levels to not feel alone. This has a similar mudflating effect on old items and content.

There're lots of causes of mudflation; the decrease in the value of things has lots of sources..

People mostly will only play in old(er) content either to level or aa or to get something unique or because they're a progression player (maybe they're in a progression guild). I think that if mudflation cannot be resolved then one way to increase the value of old things (and overall worth of EQ2) is to spend developer resources on legitimizing progression as a play style. Because the only people that really care about the items and content being mudflated are the progression players. The rest of the players just take what they can and move on. They don't stay in the old content. I think adding a progression category to the achievements window or a new progression window might help these players a lot. It wouldn't change old items or old rewards, it would simply add direction and structure to progression so players don't have to wing it or look online for these things. Alternatively, they could allow progression guilds to customize it to their unique desires.

I mention about it here: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=516954#5742839

If CURRENT raiders are getting gear that's worse than CURRENT groupers, that's not the same thing as mudflation. That to me would be a itemization problem needing to be fixed. I'm not sure whether this applies or not?

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Old 04-06-2012, 01:32 AM   #70
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7foggynites wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Looks like raiding and progression in general is pretty pointless. I take it we should expect this kind of quality in the future?

A whole zone or more will have 70% or so of its bosses unkillable for around 6 - 8 months, while the gear inside, despite the place in progression and level of challenge will be replaced by mastercrafted and easy mode gear in another 2 level increase.

It's nice to know that our efforts, and ability to deal with broken content amounts to that.

Saw this in EQ1 too. But you see it in almost every mmorpg. It's called mudflation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation

So more and more currency and power is stored in the world. Players become wealthy and will spend tons and tons of money or resources for even small little things just because they can. New players coming into the game cannot afford anything because the higher level players are buying things for alts or so on. There're lots and lots of anti-mudflation measures. For example, one could put money sinks into the game so as a player levels up they will spend their wealth. The bottom line is that new players are excluded from enjoying the game and they need to be protected.

There's also the issue that online games become top heavy and the rate of new incoming players can fall over time. This means less players are entering the game and levelling up. This can have a large impact on grouping or economy or social meetings at the lower levels and make the game not as fun. Again, this has to do with protecting new players. So one thing that might happen is they give new players more abilities or they make it easier for them to do things alone or to even group with higher levels to not feel alone. This has a similar mudflating effect on old items and content.

There're lots of causes of mudflation; the decrease in the value of things has lots of sources..

People mostly will only play in old(er) content either to level or aa or to get something unique or because they're a progression player (maybe they're in a progression guild). I think that if mudflation cannot be resolved then one way to increase the value of old things (and overall worth of EQ2) is to spend developer resources on legitimizing progression as a play style. Because the only people that really care about the items and content being mudflated are the progression players. The rest of the players just take what they can and move on. They don't stay in the old content. I think adding a progression category to the achievements window or a new progression window might help these players a lot. It wouldn't change old items or old rewards, it would simply add direction and structure to progression so players don't have to wing it or look online for these things. Alternatively, they could allow progression guilds to customize it to their unique desires.

I mention about it here: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=516954#5742839

If CURRENT raiders are getting gear that's worse than CURRENT groupers, that's not the same thing as mudflation. That to me would be a itemization problem needing to be fixed. I'm not sure whether this applies or not?

Sorry, but the mudflation excuse doesn't hold water when we are only going up 2 levels, instead of 10. By outdating current content, they are doing a disservice instead of helping anybody, because there will be even less of a reason to log in at all, due to there being less relevant content to do, and I doubt the small amount of additional zones will hold anyone's interest for long.

The next game update is coming with 3 raid zones, one of which has 3 bosses, another has 9, and another has only 1. By invalidating current content, they are essentially erasing 4 entire hard mode zones which totals to 19 boss kills, the final zone, was only entered by players last month, and still has encounters that are impossible to beat due to being untuned, when the zone itself came out 7 months ago which should have been plenty of time to ensure it was ready.

I am talking about raid gear, from the hardest zones in-game at the moment, getting replaced by crafted and group gear, that is two levels higher.

This isn't even taking into account all the heroic zones, easy mode zones, and lower tier hard mode raids that are going to become irrelevant either.

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Old 04-06-2012, 02:27 AM   #71
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come on devs - one of you has to see this stuff.

just fix this.

its ridiculous that half the gear in plane of war is either messed up, or broken.

go over the gear, by hand for what currently actually drops in PoW and please do a side by side comparison with the drunder gear of the same slot/class and just fix these items.

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Old 04-06-2012, 05:17 AM   #72
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The devs will be on it once fyreflite will be done checking if tower of drafling does drop the proper appearance gear.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:29 AM   #73
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7foggynites wrote:

Saw this in EQ1 too. But you see it in almost every mmorpg. It's called mudflation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation

If CURRENT raiders are getting gear that's worse than CURRENT groupers, that's not the same thing as mudflation. That to me would be a itemization problem needing to be fixed. I'm not sure whether this applies or not?

It's not mudflation. It's current gear from the hardest zone in the game being totally broken and uneven.

7foggynites wrote:

If CURRENT raiders are getting gear that's worse than CURRENT groupers, that's not the same thing as mudflation. That to me would be a itemization problem needing to be fixed. I'm not sure whether this applies or not?

Bingo.

I wonder how many times HM raid guilds are going to try to kick the football while SOE pulls it away at the last minute.

8 months effort in HM raid zones apparently equals hailing an NPC.

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Old 04-10-2012, 07:41 PM   #74
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So, I guess we should just resign ourselves to Plane of War being outdated before even being completed by any guild.

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Old 04-10-2012, 10:15 PM   #75
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I can't recall ever seeing anything like this in a MMO before. High end Content never ever being used while also being outdated by the newsest update. Content being made useless due to new content isn;t new, but leap-frogging it outright is bad on so many levels. The mismanagement of resources on developing content is painfully apparent. I can just imagine some simpleton dev thinking 'omg we are making so much content the players can't even keep up we pwn lolololol' being ignorant of the myriad of reasons, listed in this thread, why the players haven't actually cleared the content.

If they were smart and actually wanted to fix this, they would arrange items and tune encounters where PoW is the 'first tier' of raiding for the new GU and the equipment from PoW is needed to do the first of the new raid content in skyshrine.

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Old 04-10-2012, 11:43 PM   #76
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Naxrammus.

I cleared it, but the vast majority of people didn't!  (First version.)

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Old 04-11-2012, 10:33 AM   #77
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[email protected] wrote:

Naxrammus.

I cleared it, but the vast majority of people didn't!  (First version.)

Sunwell Plateu as well.

But those are different. Players didn't get to those raid zones, because the conent was actually challenging, and in a killable state.

EQ2 bosses/raidzones are usually unkillable and broken for months.

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Old 04-12-2012, 03:37 AM   #78
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I'm not sure if this was brought up already yet, but the nameds in PoW don't drop any raid shards.

Also, the amount of items with (Greater) Bolstering Roar is just ridiculous. Clearly an unfinished job.

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Old 04-12-2012, 10:43 AM   #79
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[email protected] wrote:

 Clearly an unfinished job.

And clearly no one as SoE cares about it what so ever either.

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Old 04-12-2012, 12:09 PM   #80
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Geothe wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

 Clearly an unfinished job.

And clearly no one as SoE cares about it what so ever either.

Fix content that is irrevelant next week?  Or try to itemize the content coming next week?

I'm not surprised nothing is being done about PoW.  Honestly, I wasn't surprised the zone was never really finished to begin with.  SJ has ambitious plans that exceed his resources and the consequences of this have been evident for well over a year.

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Old 04-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #81
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[email protected] wrote:

  Or try to itemize the content coming next week?

Lol. Wait.

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Old 04-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #82
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1rocketjones wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

  Or try to itemize the content coming next week?

Lol. Wait.

I know, I failed to make my point clearly that resources are already too thin, and adding in fixing a zone that wont matter in a matter of days isn't the best use of time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as dissapointed in what PoW is as anyone, and it hasn't even been unlocked on my server SMILEY

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Old 04-12-2012, 03:54 PM   #83
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slippery wrote:

Got my third item with Major Bolstering Roar last night, a proc that doesn't stack. Can I please just have my red adorns back?

Also, you upgraded my pants today (along with all Fighter gear) yet all the other gear in the zone is still complete garbage. I haven't even attuned the 1h I looted because it is just complete trash.

Thanks for the pants though. I'm glad Plane of War is so important to the dev team that the player base should do it so they can upgrade green stats... But hey, I'm sure we'll be in Skyshrine next month and Plane of War will be completely and utterly useless and forever unused, while Drunder never gets itemization fixed and falls by the wayside. What a great way to tell your players that you don't care about the game. Cool story.

Edit: I like how you can even make the regular mitigation on the item better.

Edit 2: Did I mention Mythicals will go forever undiscovered?

In all honesty Guards, you that surprised just how fubared they are with content,bugs, issues, not addressing jack crap, how broken stuff is?  It seriously shouldnt be any surprise just how messed up they make things and continue to put out stuff thats so utterly broken.  For starters the game engine is 8 years old yet there are still maaaasssive issues with it that they either 1; refuse to fix, 2; dont have the skill to fix them, 3; dont give a rats a$$ or 4; 1,2, and 3 combined.  I ask myself every day why I continue to play this game with so many issues with it...  They are more concerned with whats up on the SC store then actually putting out stuff in the game thats half decent.

Theres been a massive trend since kunark or hell even EoF that has been nothing but a downhill slope from the dev team and the quality they are putting out.  Its sad too cause the game could be so much better.  I dont know... I just know that nothing they do anymore surprises me nor should it anyone else.

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Old 04-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #84
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I like how ever since Drunder came out, they've been giving us less and less loot per chest compared to launch DoV hard mode, Along with stacking superfluous scout and fighter item variations, and  dumping mage and priest loot onto random trash.It's almost as if it was done deliberately to stall our progression so they could backpedal and fix things, but then again, it shows how little that really helped.They had to fix Drunder little by little in order for players to complete it, and gain access to Plane of War.Plane of War still isn't completable even being closed for 7 months after its actual relase, or sensibly itemized (armor pieces relying on lucky trash drops, stats are lower than Drunder gear in some cases, duplicated procs, and procs that aren't exactly good enough to drop war runes for)Plane of War isn't even completable by players yet, its been open for maybe 2 months at most, and it, the Drunder mythicals, and Drunder itself are about to become outdated.Nice job, devs.

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Old 04-13-2012, 04:53 AM   #85
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[email protected]est wrote:

fixing a zone that wont matter in a matter of days isn't the best use of time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as dissapointed in what PoW is as anyone, and it hasn't even been unlocked on my server

HM raiders try to kick the ball for 8 months and every time, SOE pulls the football away at the last second. Plane of War opens and the loot and drop rate is a farce. Oh good grief!

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Old 04-13-2012, 05:10 AM   #86
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I thought they leaked on the webcast today that PoWar was going to remain the top content even through the GU...this would seem to indicate a reworking of the gear, considering the MUDflation that is showing up in the itemization of the content in the GU.

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Old 04-13-2012, 07:48 AM   #87
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I thought they leaked on the webcast today that PoWar was going to remain the top content even through the GU...this would seem to indicate a reworking of the gear, considering the MUDflation that is showing up in the itemization of the content in the GU.

For Plane of War gear to be the "best gear in the game" first they have to *make it* the best gear in the game. Currently, it's not.

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Old 04-13-2012, 07:52 AM   #88
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feldon30 wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I thought they leaked on the webcast today that PoWar was going to remain the top content even through the GU...this would seem to indicate a reworking of the gear, considering the MUDflation that is showing up in the itemization of the content in the GU.

For Plane of War gear to be the "best gear in the game" first they have to *make it* the best gear in the game. Currently, it's not.

That's the point I was trying to make, muddy as it might have been. One would think that they would have to boost rewards for PoWar to bring it in-line with their statement of "best in the game".

Of course, trying to deduce anything from Sony's inferences is like nailing Jell-O to a wall.

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Old 04-14-2012, 10:49 AM   #89
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Items appear to have been upgraded on Test/ Test Copy.

Initial scan over them, I think they are going in the right direction (at least on mage gear), but things like attribute values, crit chance, damage, mitigation, and blue stats across the board still should be higher by maybe 20 - 40%. The attribute values (int/str etc) resists on all jewelry, and crit chance on charms (63 to now 31...which is less than the EoW charms) actually have been nerfed from live sadly enough.

Also, I think that they need to be putting more or vastly stronger procs on these items, to actually give incentive to drop red runes/war runes altogether...particularly the heavy utility war runes like split-second redemption, benefaction, rime strike, field of battle, manastorm etc.

Also spotted a mage intended dagger with a scout intended proc, and was devoid of any casting speed.

All pieces appear to also be missing any casting skills on the gear, and the Drunder HM gear all appears untouched, still has less casting/weapon skills than launch HM.

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Old 04-14-2012, 12:34 PM   #90
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Well the predator/beastlord armor pieces from PoW lost A LOT of multi attack, especially the gloves, but they did add ability reuse and modified a few of the other stats.

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