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Old 04-25-2006, 06:28 PM   #1
hoosierdaddy

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Who has the time or inclination at lvl 70 to spend farming Nil Crystals? Both Curse spells that are required to manufacture Nil Crystals are worthless. 800 hp/pow reduction on a mob is a wasted cast and I'm pretty sure the Str/Int debuff does very little. Even if we do cast both curses on a mob, we'd just be breaking even if casting both Corrupt Gift and Netherlord (which are both definitely worth casting at Master 1).  
 
I think these Nil Crystals were originally to be used as a downside to producing such high DPS, but when 4-5 other classes are producing the same dmg output, there is no need to make excuses or slow down our casting rotations. It's ridiculous that most other tier 1/tier 2 dps can equal our dmg output and sometimes exceed it without having any such requirements. Not to mention our not having any maintained/AE deaggro buff, but that's another discussion...
 
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Message Edited by hoosierdaddy on 04-25-2006 08:14 AM

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Old 04-25-2006, 07:45 PM   #2
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SOE twisted Humor sense...
 
At least Now Nill cristals are no temp...
 
Wizards Pets do not require any stupid cristals...
Fussion (Wizz equivalent spell to Rift) Do not require any stupid cristal...
Wizz have also good buff and good Util spells, What does we have?
Wizz have evac... What does we have?
 
Looks like we are overpowered and we need a nerf cause We need nill cristals to cast NeterosLord or Rift and Wizzards do not need to.
 
Really our class is a bad Joke. No agroo control, No Util, Too long cast times... Nill cristals... SMILEY
 
No coments...
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Old 04-26-2006, 02:03 AM   #3
CelebornXI

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I wouldn't use the skills that require them if they were still temp...wizards get to use equivalent skills for slightly more power cunsumption, nil crystals can help reduce power use in long fights..however the bane to the warlock class is power consumption and everything else we do uses an asnine amount of power... SOE just thought this might help ease it up a bit... IMHO

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Old 04-26-2006, 02:35 AM   #4
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i pray they get rid of nil crystals. way to many interesting and usefull spells require them and as it stands now they almost never get used.

hopefully one day sony will take a much needed look into our class and toss those stupud things right out the window.

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Old 04-26-2006, 03:22 AM   #5
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This looks well similar to rangers wanting endless quivers...
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Old 04-26-2006, 12:57 PM   #6
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Rangers do damage with their arrows... Does we throws the nills cristals to the mobs like they where stones to damage the mobs?
 
Nill cristal are a prerequisite of casting. And I hate them. May be we are a sooo OVERPOWER class, that we need some kind of nerf and impediment like Nill Cristals cause if not ....poooor wizzard, they are ALWAIS BEING underdamaged by warlocks... LOL
 
I do not think Protoflame or Rift have lower power cost at the equivalent Wizzard spells...
 
And the power you "keep" thanks to the nill cristal you are forced to employ it to gain another nill cristal again. I'm sure the power cost sum od curse+rift is far bigger than fusion power cost.
 
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Old 04-26-2006, 03:48 PM   #7
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i agree with u enrique. if there would be some signifficant difference in damage or whatever it would be ok to have a crystal to cast it. by now it is only a stupid requirement that bother most of us.
 
maybe u could use a nil crystal to boost a certain spell but to be honest, i dont want them at all.
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Old 04-26-2006, 06:48 PM   #8
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The powers of the nil crystal you use to cast rift makes it that you do not die ! While with fusion wizards get all the hate from the cast of fusion. Anyway get used to it, nil crystals are part of the warlock. Who cares if wizards don't need it ... I mean seriously stop being a whiner and play your class or start a wizard.

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Old 04-26-2006, 07:07 PM   #9
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The powers of the nil crystal you use to cast rift makes it that you do not die ! While with fusion wizards get all the hate from the cast of fusion. Anyway get used to it, nil crystals are part of the warlock. Who cares if wizards don't need it ... I mean seriously stop being a whiner and play your class or start a wizard.


This is a weak argument and approaches being a troll post. Get used to it? If that's the case, I'd have quit a long time ago after being used to being the premier single-target class pre-LU13. Without suggestions from the player base to improve our class we'd still be being outdamaged by tanks, as we were back in November 2004, if you were around back then.

Things change in this game, such as our role from a single-target nuker to a an Ae specialist. Nil Crystals were thought up while we were still single-target dps, probably in order to somehow differentiate us from wizards. Well, now we have an obvious difference in roles and Nil Crystals seem a tired leftover.

No other class is expected to farm spell components in order to put up the same dps numbers as us. I don't expect to spend a portion of my play time in NF/TS farming gray mobs for hours just so I can equal monks/summoners/zerkers/swashy/assassin DPS in raids.

-Kai

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Old 04-26-2006, 07:23 PM   #10
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Let me start but stating that, contrary to what was said earlier, Nil crystals are not pre-requisites to casting. We only have 3 or 4 spells that require them and most of these have limited uses. The best use, in my opinion, is the pet which I usually only use on named mobs. Rift is neat but has limited usefulness. Its not often I want to cast any out-of-encounter AoE. These spells are generally not part of my primary line of attack, but I add them in occasionally when I feel appropriate. That being said the concept of requiring a spell component is hardly limited to us. I never studied wizards, but my Paladin alt uses the one he gets for a nice self heal. SKs use theirs for their pet also. Necros use theirs for their rez (it’s been bugged but is being fixed). Conjurers have even been given a spell that requires a component that they have to BUY never mind one they can generate themselves. Granted this is Call of Hero and is one of the top utility spells (behind Rez and Evac, haven’t really made an effort to evaluate them over all). These spells give the game some flavor. Having to use them for a few spells doesn’t [Removed for Content] us in any way compared to anyone else. EDIT: my only problem with them is their weight. They are awful heavy for a "crystal" and weight can be an issue for us wimpy low srtength spellcasters.

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Old 04-26-2006, 09:50 PM   #11
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Kytraan wrote:


That being said the concept of requiring a spell component is hardly limited to us. I never studied wizards, but my Paladin alt uses the one he gets for a nice self heal. SKs use theirs for their pet also. Necros use theirs for their rez (it’s been bugged but is being fixed).


My Paladin generates his crystals passively without having to farm them, as does my Necro for the most part. My Warlock has to go farm them.

Not the end of the world, certainly. But it IS irritating to have to go farm for an hour to stock up. If they even made one of the curses encounter based, that would go a long way towards lessening the tedium.

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Old 04-27-2006, 12:34 AM   #12
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My Paladin generates his crystals passively without having to farm them, as does my Necro for the most part. My Warlock has to go farm them.

Not the end of the world, certainly. But it IS irritating to have to go farm for an hour to stock up. If they even made one of the curses encounter based, that would go a long way towards lessening the tedium.


Now we're getting somewhere. In addition to one being encounter-wide, how about the possibility of reducing the casting times on both Curse lines to 1 second or even instant. Anything to keep us from having to mindlessly go farm gray mobs for hours in order to harvest these things. It's not as though the debufs associated with these spells is game-breaking by any means. Encounters happen so quickly now, and especially non-raid encounters, that by the time we've cast both curse spells in a full group, the mob is pretty much already dead.

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Old 04-28-2006, 06:14 PM   #13
Kytraan

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The Paladin spell that generates the useable component (Devout essence) is nice little self HP buff that procs the item generation when he gets hit. The result is he ends up with stacks of them (at 50 a stack) when ever he tanks or even solos. It causes minor problems with his inventory. A quick /delete can fix that easily enough. His high strength means the weight of carrying them is never a factor. The weight of the Nil Crystals however is a problem for my warlock in any real quantity. I am not exactly raid geared. My STR was 15 (at level 65!) until was recently forced to give up intel to fix it. My max carrying capacity was (iirc) 80. The crystals weigh 2 or 3 lbs each. So 20 would be at least 40lbs. That’s a LOT of weight for someone with low strength. I usually carry around 10 of these in case I need them and work at replacing them as I use them. I never farm them, I can’t carry very many. If the fight is going to last long enough that the Pet (as a crushing DoT) would be useful I use one of the debuffs far enough into the fight that it’s still active when the mob dies. This allows me to replace them as I go.
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Old 04-29-2006, 01:12 AM   #14
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The weight is not an issue.  They are 1# but they stack, so a full stack weighs the same as a single -

The crystals justifications came in when we were the top single target nuker, with a large benefit in our power consumption - they were a hassle, but it was worth it then.

We have lost our position as top single target dd in lu13.  We lost out most efficient power consumption at the same time. We were made the most effective aoe damage dealer in the game.

 

At that point, they were still worth the hassle.

 

Since our procs were nerfed to oblivion, and our damage is mediocre at best now, and we HAVE to use nil crystal requiring spells to even approach t2 dps classes, these really need to be re-evaluated.

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Old 05-01-2006, 08:56 PM   #15
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Definitly agree with you Maelwys on the portion about having to use our nil-crystal consuming skills to generate even closely comparable dps, and whoever posted earlier about all the skills except the netherlord and possibly rift being useful i think you are sadly mistaken... I use both netherous realm and the nil-aura (which consumes a nil crystal) on every aoe fight during a raid, if the mobs have to few HP, then I soar above everyone except a swashbuckler and a conjurer for dps, but we all know the bat is heading the conj. way, and well the swashy AA's are going to be knocked back a bit, the only true reason our dps falls on a parser is from there being one single mob in a group that lasts for 30+ secs longer than everything else.... burst dps on an aoe warlocks are unmatched with all of our procs nukes etc.... if fights lasted for 20 secs total and you are able to get apocalypse/void absolution or rift off there should be no one near you on the parse... although death seems to be a faithful companion of every warlock heheheedited for spelling

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Old 05-03-2006, 06:57 PM   #16
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I use Nill Cristals a lot, cause I use Rift a lot and Netherlord sometimes.
 
Rift is a great AoE Nuke. Cause it does a good amount of damage and generate little agroo.
 
Fusions generates a great amount of agroo, thats rigth. But fusions cause double or even more damage than Rift does. Fusion have sorter range. But I think Rift range is too long. It's too ease to cause Adds cause Rift too long cast time.
 
That's cause I think Nill cristals should be removed from the game.
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:20 AM   #17
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I wouldn't mind if they gave us a damage shield or a ward that was powered by nil crystals.  At least then I would have a use for them.
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