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Old 10-26-2012, 03:06 AM   #31
Lethlian

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Davngr1 wrote:

i can understand the balance aspect but the thing is that in most cases the trees aren't balanced. 

Thats honestly a spot on statement. when I think of mmorpgs, the common trend or idea most people like is *their* ability to choose / customize their characters. Hence back when eq2 first started waaaay back in 2004 you had intially only 4 basic characters to choose from in the beginning, then when you reached level 10 (iirc) you could then branch out to another subset of that base model, then when you reached level 20 (iirc) you would *finally* end up with what character class you truly wanted. (but the idea and theme was this, none of them were balanced to begin with because each of them had set roles and depended on each other to succeed)

My point now is this - As expacs continued more was added to those base roles. What you have now is basically mudflation and balkanization, you have Tanks that can do T1 dps or scout/mage damage, you have healers who want to be scouts (i.e inq(s), you have scouts who want to be healers (i.e dirges with rezes and healing wards) you have mages that want tank levels of mitigation and avoidance (all those cry babies). The game has gotten so convoluted over time that allot classes can do allot of what other class based archtypes can do, that we never had when the game started. So as of a result of all that, we've been coached now as players to accept this universal standard or measureing stick of this : DPS its the big mofo'ing elphant sitting in the room that everyone knows is there but either 1) don't want to do a dang thing about it or 2) don't know what to do about it or lastly 3) don't care (which I feel is a very small minority tbh, especially with as many peeps that post all kinds of crazy stuff in these forums)

The only acception to break the above said rule now is this. 1) Man up fix this game with a bibical intensity and hurt peoples feelings about accepting / making the original roles come back again or 2) dont make this same mistake with EQnext or 3) Until EQnext comes out, expect everything that is implented in this game to be highly scrutinized like it presently is.

/steps off the pulpit.

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:21 AM   #32
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Please allow the first six points to unlock both trees and allow us to go down both lines at a time if we so choose.

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Old 10-26-2012, 04:42 AM   #33
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Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #34
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Hennyo wrote:

Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.

If you have ever played almost any RPG, you would notice that most of them do not force you to one thing or the other. Most allow the freedom to be a jack-of-all-trades and master-of-none, or be the best fighter with a sword and shield this world has ever seen etc. The point being, they should allow you the choice to specialize in a particular focus, or simply be an amalgamation of all things related to your class.

/preaching

No one ever said they wanted the trees completely opened, at least I never did. I simply stated that forcing one path or another is silly.

The best bet is to invest 6 points and you can spend it across 2 trees, it is not like you can get every ability, or buff the endlines up to their full potential. I understand the desire for balance, but doing so they removed abilities people have now and have had since this current expansion's launch day.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, once you open up the 2nd tier abilities you would still be required to progress as it currently functions.

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Old 10-26-2012, 04:22 PM   #35
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I agree

I am very against taking choices away from players.  Players are going to have a very negitive reaction to this when it goes live.

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Old 10-26-2012, 05:20 PM   #36
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Hennyo wrote:

Please don't listen to most anyone in this thread, being able to balance the game around 3 obvious prestige builds right now, double conversion, left, or right, is the correct method that is currently being used. By allowing people to take any mismash of prestige would completely break balance, and destroy any hope that any sort of balance would even be possible.

   you're absolutely wrong.

   the first 10 prestige points had NOTHING to do with the second set of prestige points given this time around and thus should NOT influence what tree we choose.

   some people are asking to be able to just choose anything they want ala EoF tree style but the majority are just upset about having to give up their current tree choice for one of the NEW tree choices.

  to link them all together is going to take a level of fine tuning that is not currently being offered.

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Old 10-26-2012, 06:21 PM   #37
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Davngr1 Wrote:

the first 10 prestige points had NOTHING to do with the second set of prestige points given this time around and thus should NOT influence what tree we choose.

   some people are asking to be able to just choose anything they want ala EoF tree style but the majority are just upset about having to give up their current tree choice for one of the NEW tree choices.

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I agree 100% with this statement and am bothered about whats currently being offered as supposed choices, I am being stripped of what i am currently using in the game RIGHT NOW for raids and instances not to mention have been for some time, and when the new Expansion goes live i cant use these abilities along with anything new ?

/sadface

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Old 10-26-2012, 07:10 PM   #38
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Honestly what would this solve? Is it hurting other players to be able to switch which line to go down? This does more to hurt that game and the players than it does to help.

Please do not change how prestige paths are currently done!!!

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Old 10-26-2012, 11:15 PM   #39
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The problem with forced trees as you are forced to spend AAs on junk. Lookt at the main first tree. - for each one you want in line you have a bunch that you don't want but have to spend points on.

You unlocked most of the tree - PLEASE DO NOT LOCK TREES ANY MORE - allow us to make a choice - don't make it for us.

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Old 10-26-2012, 11:31 PM   #40
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I agree as well
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #41
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Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:21 PM   #42
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.

I have to disagree with your assumption, here, about everybody taking both of the 'conversion' options if they could. If everybody was dying to have the conversion options, nobody would be complaining about losing the ability to get both starters... because nobody would have both starters right now. The only way to get both starters, as things stand on live, is to forgo the 'conversion' option.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:32 PM   #43
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I agree that some form of "locking" or restriction is needed, but not to the extent that it is done, for example for my dirge i would like to go down the Left tree up until the conversion and then get the right side New prestige options, I don't feel we should be able to spend the 6 point and go down either tree as is suggested above but maybe seperating it so that after the completing the current Prestige trees on Live you can choose Either one of the New sub trees?? Just my thoughts
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:42 PM   #44
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.

 that makes no sense what so ever. the first two prestige trees where balanced when released.  there is no reason to balance the second set of prestige to it.

 the second set of prestige should not be locked to the first set of prestige, period.

 i don't know why devs seem to pay more attention to what the "cool kids" concerns are but there are issues that high end raiding players might not have, that general population DOES have and they are just as important if not more.

 in short stop trying to run devils advocate for this stupid restriction.

 edit.

 the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.

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Old 10-27-2012, 05:48 PM   #45
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Davngr1 wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.

 that makes no sense what so ever. the first two prestige trees where balanced when released.  there is no reason to balance the second set of prestige to it.

 the second set of prestige should not be locked to the first set of prestige, period.

 i don't know why devs seem to pay more attention to what the "cool kids" concerns are but there are issues that high end raiding players might not have, that general population DOES have and they are just as important if not more.

 in short stop trying to run devils advocate for this stupid restriction.

 I agree with Davangr1 100% and perhaps Buffrat's class or classes appear to be balanced for him or her, but the majority of us are now losing the skillset we have been using and grown acusstomed too and  gain nothing in the new expansion at all if we chose to maintain our current  prestige AA's.

I would be happy with 6 AA's to unlock both trees permanently or for CoE aa's to go into a bran new AA tab, like other expansions and have nothing to do with  our current prestige aa's...

Kind of angers me and upsets me that what ive been using is going to be taken away from me or i gain nothing new at all, almost like a huge nerf bat to many classes.

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Old 10-27-2012, 09:54 PM   #46
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Davngr1 wrote:

 the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.

I like this idea. This lets me keep the two starters, but prevents me from getting both conversions, and I'm OK with that.

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Old 10-28-2012, 03:58 AM   #47
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 the top two lines should lock after spending 10 prestige points in either one and should stay locked as there are currently on live.  that way the first prestige tree stays exactly as it was intended and the new prestige trees are availabe to everyone.

I like this idea. This lets me keep the two starters, but prevents me from getting both conversions, and I'm OK with that.

Yeah I agree with this....TBH they should have NEVER connected our present in game prestige tab with the new planned prestige abilities.

They should leave our current in game prestige tree as is and ADD a new tab/page for the new abilities there making and have them be UNASSOCIATED with our current prestige trees, that way you could simply choose either or regardless of what path you choose in the current in game prestige line.

This would be perfectly acceptable imo.

Respectfully,

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:26 AM   #48
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All I ask is, "Just don't take away the abilities WE ALREADY HAVE!"

It just seems that there's never any forethought beyond the next update or expansion.  EVER.  For gear.  For abilities.  None.  Nada.  Nothing.

It's just . . . like . . . did you not think past last update, when you upped the level to 92 and gave us these prestige abilties (what?  6 months ago, maybe?) that, "Hey, if we're gonna expand these trees, and we want to let the players choose one path or the other, maybe we should lock it NOW so they can't get both to get them used to the idea instead of just taking it away later and pishin' people off."  Was anything like that even on the table when you implemented the first set of prestige abilities?  Was it there when you started making the second set (and linking it to the first)?

Why is every decison seem to be REactive instead of PROactive?

Do you HAVE a plan for the next year?  Two?  Five?  Or do you literally just look at what the very next new stuff is, put it out, then deal with, change, tweak, or nerf where we're gonna go after what you're implementing now is done?  'Cause let me tell you, that's a sure fire path to oblivion.  I don't even care if you completely FOLLOW the plan (nor would I want you to if you see it's not working) but why does it seem that you don't even HAVE one?

/sigh  I'm sorry.  I'm just frustrated that every time there's a new content expansion (instead of the feature pack that was AOD) you seem to have to nerf us just so you can then implement new stuff and say, "See, we made stuff that improves you.  There's room to grow. . . . oh, that?  No, we didn't NERF you, you can still DO all the content you were always doing because we nerfed THAT, too!"

I get it if you want us to have to choose one or the other path of abilities (not that I agree with it . . . but I guess we are in "Your World Now.")  But please let us keep what you already gave us WITHOUT taking our abilities away and THEN allow us to choose one path or the other.  Then we can (as you so readily tout) "experience Everquest II Free to Play.  Your Way". (taken directly from your site).  I beg of you, please stop giving with one hand then taking away with the other.  'Cause (I don't know about anyone else) but that's definetly not MY way . . .

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Old 10-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #49
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Has anyone recieved any feedback on this issue yet ?

I keep logging in to see if this has been changed on beta yet, and im growing more and more concerned

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Old 10-30-2012, 06:05 AM   #50
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Nope. Still no feedback on this topic.

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Old 10-30-2012, 03:31 PM   #51
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Locking the trees is necessary because I guarantee you every single class would be taking double conversion if you could get it with 4 points instead of 10. They can't make every aa in the new trees more amazing than a conversion. Not to mention classes that get two new dps spells would be considerably stronger than classes who don't.

If this is their concern then add in a restriction so it works like they currently do.  What I mean by that is if you want to put points in both sides you loose the ability to take the conversion prestige.  I believe most people would be fine with this since it is how it works now.

People are currently willing to give up the conversion to take a skill on both sides.  Simply add in code if people choose to put points in both sides of the current prestige lines it locks out the ability to take either conversion prestige.

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Old 10-30-2012, 04:08 PM   #52
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i can't believe no red names have commented on this yet.      it's clearly a concern for everyone and this is a step in the wrong direction.

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Old 10-31-2012, 01:18 AM   #53
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I hope I dont have to play like this for too long, or i'll probabbly grow tired and  come back after another expansion or two

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Old 10-31-2012, 03:22 PM   #54
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Still no word on this??
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:45 PM   #55
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You people are MAD!! its no wonder why any red name people haven't responded to this thread!  Everyone shouts we lose this we lose that!! you lose NOTHING! well except maybe for ability to keep ur original double sided spec from lvls 92 to 94... Honestly how long u think you'll be at those levels?  Certainly raiders will grind it in what not even a day?  End result you get what you had before plus the conversion or both and 5-8 points to spend in the bottom to go with it.  Hence you gained not lost!!! Tell me what have you lost? inability to get both sides and an endline? so what.. speccing for the conversion will help ne class out there i dont care who u are and probily more than any endline.

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Old 10-31-2012, 10:07 PM   #56
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lodgepark8485 wrote:

You people are MAD!! its no wonder why any red name people haven't responded to this thread!  Everyone shouts we lose this we lose that!! you lose NOTHING! well except maybe for ability to keep ur original double sided spec from lvls 92 to 94... Honestly how long u think you'll be at those levels?  Certainly raiders will grind it in what not even a day?  End result you get what you had before plus the conversion or both and 5-8 points to spend in the bottom to go with it.  Hence you gained not lost!!! Tell me what have you lost? inability to get both sides and an endline? so what.. speccing for the conversion will help ne class out there i dont care who u are and probily more than any endline.

what?

  you're painfully ignorant to what is being lost here.

  the problem is that the first 10 prestige where balanced separately from this set of 15 prestige and devs are trying to force us to take a tree we don't want to keep the our current build.   this would not be problem if both sides where balanced but in most cases they are not balanced what so ever.  

 first ten prestige should lock the top tree and open up the second tree to use the new 15 prestige.

  this really does require a red name explanation because you're clearly blowing off feedback and that's something that should be explained.

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:10 PM   #57
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forced prestige : worst decision ever. thanks for letting us tinker on how we want to spend our prestige. if you are scared about the conversion prestige just create a second tab of prestige like the KoS EoF shadow and DoV AA. Thanks for your time

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Old 11-01-2012, 01:35 PM   #58
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I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.

if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.

It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #59
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KenCoop wrote:

I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.

if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.

It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.

You are incorrect. In order to spend a point on the 'other tree' you have to spend 6 additional points in the top 4 bubbles... To sum it up.. you have to fill the entire top row, on beta, if you want to get both tree starters.

Currently, on live, many people have 6 in the first 4, one in each of the starters, and two in the second on one of the trees.On beta, this is not possible.

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:48 PM   #60
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Mermut wrote:

KenCoop wrote:

I haven't quite made it to 95 on test yet, but if I am understanding correctly at 95 both trees unlock, and you can spec some into the other side if haven't taken even point for every ability on the one side.

if this is the case then this thread seems to be addressing a non-issue, because the player could then either choose to fill up one tree and take the new presitge end line, or to put points into the other tree at that point.

It seems to be very similar to how the current prestige works on live.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, so if someone who has made it to 95 could please clarify I would appreciate it.

You are incorrect. In order to spend a point on the 'other tree' you have to spend 6 additional points in the top 4 bubbles... To sum it up.. you have to fill the entire top row, on beta, if you want to get both tree starters.

Currently, on live, many people have 6 in the first 4, one in each of the starters, and two in the second on one of the trees.On beta, this is not possible.

Oh thanks for clarifying, I was misunderstanding, all the new prestige points I have received i have put into the new tree at this point, so I was not aware that's how you had to do it to access both trees when you were 95.

(and I did say I was potentially misunderstanding...so that's kind of admitting I was already thinking I may have been incorrect...)

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