Change to progression

Uncle · 10-27-2014, 09:31 PM

are these zones currently unlocked or are you going to have to patch for that

Gninja · 10-27-2014, 09:32 PM

They will be unlocked next update. Watch for patch notes.

Bloodguts · 10-27-2014, 09:56 PM

How many hard encounters will there be in this expansion with this change?

Beyoncia · 10-27-2014, 10:21 PM

I haven't seen any raid mobs on beta yet, but I don't like the "nerf" idea. Raids should be hard. Guardian's Edifice is a boring, easy zone with some stupid one class oriented encounters. Maw is an absolutly different story-it's fun to wipe there. You know, in one famous mmo, an encounter that takes 50 pullstries to kill is believed to be very easy. End-zone bosses require over 1 thousand of tries, top guilds sit for weeks on them. I ofcourse understand the difference between the games, but some level of dedication should be required. That is why Master Yael and the Hole, Munzok and his bastion, old DMP and Poets palace raid are my favorite.

Gninja · 10-27-2014, 10:32 PM

Completely depends on your definition of "hard encounters" for the top tier guilds you will likely get nearly half way through with little problem then it ramps up pretty fast.

Arieste · 10-27-2014, 10:45 PM

Gninja said: ↑

“We are in the process of making a change to how the progression of raid bosses will work with this expansion. The new progression will only block one of the 6 raid zones from the start and each zone will have its own progression. This way there are more options to explore and kill from the beginning of the expansion once your players have leveled up to 100. The overall number of extremely difficult bosses has been lowered and the difficulty is being adjusted across the board to appeal to a wider range of raiding players.

As such all but the one locked raid zone have been made available to raiders on beta. Enjoy and let us know what you think of each boss. Please make sure to include in your feedback what guild you are from so we know where you are at in terms of progression on live servers. Keep in mind we are still mid-cycle of raid testing so there will be some bosses that are not yet adjusted. Just let us know what the issue is and which boss it is and we will make sure it gets fixed/balanced correctly.

Thanks and happy hunting!

- Gninja”

Since we're now getting 5 zones open to "early" progression, does this mean we're not getting any upgraded Maw or Deathtoll stuff? Those are zones that many people haven't seen and would be a huge waste to just let them go. Frown

Uncle · 10-27-2014, 11:01 PM

id assume you will get upgrades since raider are going to need almost double the resists on top of higher mitiigation to make headway into any of the raid zones unless that changing as well.

Bloodguts · 10-28-2014, 02:17 AM

and that last locked 6th zone is like Wing 3/Cruor/Tarinax difficulty?

Gninja · 10-28-2014, 04:10 AM

Yes, and the avatars. The last named in the zone before those are very difficult as well.

Gninja · 10-28-2014, 04:12 AM

We have decided to wait and see how the difficulty fares after this new content releases. If it is still relevant difficulty wise we will upgrade the loot and the fights a little bit. But if those old maw fights become total pushovers we will likely not increase the loot as it would not match the difficulty.

Luzionist · 10-28-2014, 04:19 AM

Given the inflation on some of the stats on the mastercrafted gear it is going to be hard for the mobs to not be simplified drastically

Mermut · 10-28-2014, 06:15 AM

Remember that the 'standard' master crafted gear cannot be reforged (even if it's 5x experimented on) so it's not quite as 'nice' as it seems at first glance.
IE if the gear isn't legendary or better it can't be reforged.

Gninja · 10-28-2014, 08:28 AM

We are in the process of making a change to how the progression of raid bosses will work with this expansion. The new progression will only block one of the 6 raid zones from the start and each zone will have its own progression. This way there are more options to explore and kill from the beginning of the expansion once your players have leveled up to 100. The overall number of extremely difficult bosses has been lowered and the difficulty is being adjusted across the board to appeal to a wider range of raiding players.

As such all but the one locked raid zone have been made available to raiders on beta. Enjoy and let us know what you think of each boss. Please make sure to include in your feedback what guild you are from so we know where you are at in terms of progression on live servers. Keep in mind we are still mid-cycle of raid testing so there will be some bosses that are not yet adjusted. Just let us know what the issue is and which boss it is and we will make sure it gets fixed/balanced correctly.

Thanks and happy hunting!

- Gninja

GIndotto · 10-28-2014, 05:25 PM

I hate to say it but if Maw fell into the background in AoM I wouldn't miss it.....I'd take Developer time on more Fabled raids or heroic content than time on that. Just my 2 cents.

Alternatively lift the Adorn belt mechanic in Maw, it's broken and horrible to work with unless everyone has adorns. And are you really going to require raiding pushover content from CoE to go raid pushover content in ToV that isn't even fully AoM difficulty? That sounds a little *** backward....At least with the adorn req lifted raids could go in there and dabble around like PoW in CoE and even ToV (you'd probably see 10x less PUGs in PoW through CoE and ToV if there was some silly buff requirement from old raid zone drops, no PUG would fulfill the requirement.)

If you want "the other 90%" to run Maw make it accessible once AoM drops. Forget the buff at that point. And not to sound like a Lore-Psycho but Dreadscale's Maw is a zone built around Kerafyrm attacking Norrath, and that's all over. Would upgrades to select encounters and their loot be exciting? Maybe. But I'd still take a new heroic in January over 2 encounters getting "upgraded" in a 95 zone. I'd rather developer time be spent fine tuning AOM loot and level 100 mechanics than trying to figure out how to boost the cluster**** that was Maw loot tables (we will never forget the original loot table the first time in that zone, omg).

I say FOCUS FORWARD. Level 100. Not level 95.

Neiloch · 10-28-2014, 08:14 PM

Not too much of a distinction since they are offering more varieties this time around. You may not be able to reforge them exactly how you want but you can carefully choose what set of stats you want.

Yajirushi62 · 10-28-2014, 10:57 PM

I agree completely with Glndotto's opinion on old encounters getting reworked, though it will be interesting to run FDT with new raid gear and see how far my guild can get, if it's even worth running at that point.

Also, can we assume the locked raid is one in the Ssraezsha Temple area?

Gninja · 10-29-2014, 07:43 PM

No the locked instance is the second Ossuary Raid

Errrorr · 10-29-2014, 10:23 PM

Would it be possible to get the intended progression of zones? Planning to do more Beta testing for next few raids so knowing the progression chain would be appreciated.

From what I've gathered so far:
Molten Pools = Entry Zone
Castle Highhold/Brokenskull = T2
Cathedral of Bones/Temple = T3
Ossuary (Not the Cathedral of Bones) = End Zone

Correct me where I'm wrong Smile

Anastaise · 10-30-2014, 04:15 PM

We were told during testing you can tell the tier by the level of the boss. Some zones have multiple tiers. I can't recall the exact levels, but I believe it's 106 = Tier 1, 107 = Teir 2 and 108 = Tier 3.

Luzionist · 10-31-2014, 03:36 AM

Is the progression of gear going to be from ToV raid to AoM raid gear or will high end heroic be needed to progress?

Errrorr · 10-31-2014, 10:37 AM

Judging by the mobs reccomended stats, unless you are in full 2/2 Mystic and full Maw Jewelery, you'll need High end Heroic by looks of it.

10-27-2014, 10:45 PM	#6
Arieste Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Gninja said: ↑ “We are in the process of making a change to how the progression of raid bosses will work with this expansion. The new progression will only block one of the 6 raid zones from the start and each zone will have its own progression. This way there are more options to explore and kill from the beginning of the expansion once your players have leveled up to 100. The overall number of extremely difficult bosses has been lowered and the difficulty is being adjusted across the board to appeal to a wider range of raiding players. As such all but the one locked raid zone have been made available to raiders on beta. Enjoy and let us know what you think of each boss. Please make sure to include in your feedback what guild you are from so we know where you are at in terms of progression on live servers. Keep in mind we are still mid-cycle of raid testing so there will be some bosses that are not yet adjusted. Just let us know what the issue is and which boss it is and we will make sure it gets fixed/balanced correctly. Thanks and happy hunting! - Gninja” Since we're now getting 5 zones open to "early" progression, does this mean we're not getting any upgraded Maw or Deathtoll stuff? Those are zones that many people haven't seen and would be a huge waste to just let them go.

10-28-2014, 02:17 AM	#8
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	Gninja said: ↑ “Completely depends on your definition of "hard encounters" for the top tier guilds you will likely get nearly half way through with little problem then it ramps up pretty fast.” and that last locked 6th zone is like Wing 3/Cruor/Tarinax difficulty?

10-28-2014, 04:10 AM	#9
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Bloodguts said: ↑ “and that last locked 6th zone is like Wing 3/Cruor/Tarinax difficulty?” Yes, and the avatars. The last named in the zone before those are very difficult as well.

10-28-2014, 04:12 AM	#10
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Arieste said: ↑ “Since we're now getting 5 zones open to "early" progression, does this mean we're not getting any upgraded Maw or Deathtoll stuff? Those are zones that many people haven't seen and would be a huge waste to just let them go. ” We have decided to wait and see how the difficulty fares after this new content releases. If it is still relevant difficulty wise we will upgrade the loot and the fights a little bit. But if those old maw fights become total pushovers we will likely not increase the loot as it would not match the difficulty.

10-28-2014, 06:15 AM	#12
Mermut Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Luzionist said: ↑ “Given the inflation on some of the stats on the mastercrafted gear it is going to be hard for the mobs to not be simplified drastically” Remember that the 'standard' master crafted gear cannot be reforged (even if it's 5x experimented on) so it's not quite as 'nice' as it seems at first glance. IE if the gear isn't legendary or better it can't be reforged.

10-27-2014, 09:31 PM	#1
Uncle Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	are these zones currently unlocked or are you going to have to patch for that

10-27-2014, 09:32 PM	#2
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	They will be unlocked next update. Watch for patch notes.

10-27-2014, 09:56 PM	#3
Bloodguts Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 2	How many hard encounters will there be in this expansion with this change?

10-27-2014, 10:21 PM	#4
Beyoncia Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I haven't seen any raid mobs on beta yet, but I don't like the "nerf" idea. Raids should be hard. Guardian's Edifice is a boring, easy zone with some stupid one class oriented encounters. Maw is an absolutly different story-it's fun to wipe there. You know, in one famous mmo, an encounter that takes 50 pullstries to kill is believed to be very easy. End-zone bosses require over 1 thousand of tries, top guilds sit for weeks on them. I ofcourse understand the difference between the games, but some level of dedication should be required. That is why Master Yael and the Hole, Munzok and his bastion, old DMP and Poets palace raid are my favorite.

10-27-2014, 10:32 PM	#5
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Completely depends on your definition of "hard encounters" for the top tier guilds you will likely get nearly half way through with little problem then it ramps up pretty fast.

10-27-2014, 11:01 PM	#7
Uncle Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	id assume you will get upgrades since raider are going to need almost double the resists on top of higher mitiigation to make headway into any of the raid zones unless that changing as well.

10-28-2014, 04:19 AM	#11
Luzionist Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Given the inflation on some of the stats on the mastercrafted gear it is going to be hard for the mobs to not be simplified drastically

10-28-2014, 08:28 AM	#13
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	We are in the process of making a change to how the progression of raid bosses will work with this expansion. The new progression will only block one of the 6 raid zones from the start and each zone will have its own progression. This way there are more options to explore and kill from the beginning of the expansion once your players have leveled up to 100. The overall number of extremely difficult bosses has been lowered and the difficulty is being adjusted across the board to appeal to a wider range of raiding players. As such all but the one locked raid zone have been made available to raiders on beta. Enjoy and let us know what you think of each boss. Please make sure to include in your feedback what guild you are from so we know where you are at in terms of progression on live servers. Keep in mind we are still mid-cycle of raid testing so there will be some bosses that are not yet adjusted. Just let us know what the issue is and which boss it is and we will make sure it gets fixed/balanced correctly. Thanks and happy hunting! - Gninja

10-28-2014, 05:25 PM	#14
GIndotto Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I hate to say it but if Maw fell into the background in AoM I wouldn't miss it.....I'd take Developer time on more Fabled raids or heroic content than time on that. Just my 2 cents. Alternatively lift the Adorn belt mechanic in Maw, it's broken and horrible to work with unless everyone has adorns. And are you really going to require raiding pushover content from CoE to go raid pushover content in ToV that isn't even fully AoM difficulty? That sounds a little * backward....At least with the adorn req lifted raids could go in there and dabble around like PoW in CoE and even ToV (you'd probably see 10x less PUGs in PoW through CoE and ToV if there was some silly buff requirement from old raid zone drops, no PUG would fulfill the requirement.) If you want "the other 90%" to run Maw make it accessible once AoM drops. Forget the buff at that point. And not to sound like a Lore-Psycho but Dreadscale's Maw is a zone built around Kerafyrm attacking Norrath, and that's all over. Would upgrades to select encounters and their loot be exciting? Maybe. But I'd still take a new heroic in January over 2 encounters getting "upgraded" in a 95 zone. I'd rather developer time be spent fine tuning AOM loot and level 100 mechanics than trying to figure out how to boost the cluster** that was Maw loot tables (we will never forget the original loot table the first time in that zone, omg). I say FOCUS FORWARD. Level 100. Not level 95.

10-28-2014, 08:14 PM	#15
Neiloch Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Not too much of a distinction since they are offering more varieties this time around. You may not be able to reforge them exactly how you want but you can carefully choose what set of stats you want.

10-28-2014, 10:57 PM	#16
Yajirushi62 Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I agree completely with Glndotto's opinion on old encounters getting reworked, though it will be interesting to run FDT with new raid gear and see how far my guild can get, if it's even worth running at that point. Also, can we assume the locked raid is one in the Ssraezsha Temple area?

10-29-2014, 07:43 PM	#17
Gninja Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Yajirushi62 said: ↑ “I agree completely with Glndotto's opinion on old encounters getting reworked, though it will be interesting to run FDT with new raid gear and see how far my guild can get, if it's even worth running at that point. Also, can we assume the locked raid is one in the Ssraezsha Temple area?” No the locked instance is the second Ossuary Raid

10-29-2014, 10:23 PM	#18
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Gninja said: ↑ “No the locked instance is the second Ossuary Raid” Would it be possible to get the intended progression of zones? Planning to do more Beta testing for next few raids so knowing the progression chain would be appreciated. From what I've gathered so far: Molten Pools = Entry Zone Castle Highhold/Brokenskull = T2 Cathedral of Bones/Temple = T3 Ossuary (Not the Cathedral of Bones) = End Zone Correct me where I'm wrong

10-30-2014, 04:15 PM	#19
Anastaise Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	We were told during testing you can tell the tier by the level of the boss. Some zones have multiple tiers. I can't recall the exact levels, but I believe it's 106 = Tier 1, 107 = Teir 2 and 108 = Tier 3.

10-31-2014, 03:36 AM	#20
Luzionist Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Is the progression of gear going to be from ToV raid to AoM raid gear or will high end heroic be needed to progress?

10-31-2014, 10:37 AM	#21
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Luzionist said: ↑ “Is the progression of gear going to be from ToV raid to AoM raid gear or will high end heroic be needed to progress?” Judging by the mobs reccomended stats, unless you are in full 2/2 Mystic and full Maw Jewelery, you'll need High end Heroic by looks of it.