Zavith'Loa: The Molten Pools [Raid] - Page 2

headbusta · 11-03-2014, 09:40 PM

It's not much of a choice to make.

On Derig you'd have to swap tanks every 2 rounds to drop the crit debuff before you stop critting at all (unless you have a set of gear to have a ridiculous amount of crit, which tanks are already stat starved enough so that doesn't make sense). So your choices are:

1) leave the same tank on the named full time, leaving with 1 tank with terrible dps only holding the mobs through transfers

2) have 2 tanks and swap out after every 2nd round, leaving a tank that's going to be critting 30-50% of the time (maybe less) to try to pick up swarm adds, so the dps will be tanking them basically

3) have 3 tanks and swap after every 2nd round, leaving 1 tank to stand there and do nothing cause they can't crit, while the 3rd tank tanks the adds till he swaps in for the next round

on a fight with dps check like Derig, no one that CAN do it with options 1 or 2, is going to chose option 3 cause they would just run an extra dps class

On Irdul the debuff doesn't wear off (unless we're missing something), so either it's intended that you kill Irdul while swapping him across multiple tanks, and each of them gets slightly debuffed before you kill him. Or the same tank has to take all 10 increments and then get 4 curse cures and resets the increments. Once again this comes down to why would you bring 2-3 tanks when all that's needed for the fight is 1, and on a dps check mob why would you bring an extra tank when you could bring more dps.

Cause when the options are have 2-3 tanks each doing ~1 million dps...or have one tank doing 700k cause he's debuffed but you get to add 2 more dps doing 5 million + dps, it's pretty clear you're going to chose dps classes to fill those spots.

Tank swaps like old Sara Greenheart or the first named in Underdepts (Tel'Koran?) where it was "Mob X doesn't like Tank Y anymore, switch or die" or Maestro in SoH with Mark of Anonymity actually gave a reason to switch. Even the forced swaps on Kreizenn and Vulak are better, of course we've never tested it but I'm guessing there is no hard fail for not having a 2nd tank on Kreizenn and he could just watch the same tank every time if there was only 1 in raid?

Marq · 11-04-2014, 06:42 AM

Did some on sunday and finished on monday so here goes a bit, most has been said already.

1st named looked pretty nice and simple for a first mob. The AE is easy to time and joust, the memwipe tho could use some kinda notice and pref maybe not have it overlap the joust, tho its more a minor nuisance. Mob didnt seem to hit anyone when it wiped and ran thru the raid (not even the person it went to). Nice and simple fight for a starter up.

2nd named, took a few tries to figure out who and what causes everything to go to bad or worse. Good ideas, tho would like to see the stoneskin down timer increased a little bit. Ofc dps isnt what it prolly will be, but for entry zone its a really harsh long fight, not hard but really long if dont get too much time to go in (really sucked for scouts). Tanks didnt seem to take too much a beating from the adds blowing up, only went really bad if some of the other ppl ran in too early and got to dot too and multiplied it more (or killed healers with it). Very annoying fight, simple but dunno if its really on par for a starter raid.

3rd named, seemed sorta iffy. The stacking debuff is easy to handle with 2 tanks if. The port and root in lava basically always seemed to kill the person ported instantly with no notices on being ported or anything. Very very dull fight to scouts in old gear and just beta buff cause they couldnt really go in or they'd die to lava splash (dunno if placing mob diff can help on that). Adds after 50% seemed to have a sorta good logic as long as ppl watched what they hit. The red emote call could maybe use a sec or 2 more before it goes off, on live it will likely be too laggy to react to. Tanking it had some very random lava splash death to 8-9mil hits, when the usual was around 600k or so. Seemed okish for a boss fight, maybe a few tunings needed. Could use some notice of being a timed fight (Maybe like Blaa blaa idol seems to draw power, if you take too long it will kill you, or something that hints it limited). Once we got strat idea down, seemed easier then the 2nd named.

And is there supposed to be a 2nd quest after the one you get here? tried looking for it in Pirate raid but couldnt see anything around zonein or first name.

Errrorr · 11-04-2014, 08:30 PM

Quest should update after first 3 nameds and give you a load more to kill for next updates.

Yajirushi62 · 11-04-2014, 10:40 PM

Yes, but our dps won't go up too much without getting the T1 raid dropped uplifting procs, and with the adds memwiping every 30s, leaving even two up will start to kill our raid since they can one-shot anything but a tank.

Also, we're currently in the middle of rebuilding our raid-force, we lost about two groups of players recently and are finally at the point we can manage to scrape together three groups of players about half the time, so are we just stuck not raiding current content (and losing players while we don't raid), or do we try the impossible task of killing a name with one-shot memwiping adds?

Meshuggahx · 11-05-2014, 01:17 AM

We just did this zone, was mostly fun, took us about 3 hours to clear it which is not bad for easy zone. I personally enjoyed it as a mage, our scouts less especially on the named that pops golems and the lava guy. Trash hp also is fine imo, took 1-2 mins to clear a trash encounter which is fine. Our monk did seem to get hit harder than our zerker but that's more related to class balance than zone balance.

11-03-2014, 09:40 PM	#31
headbusta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Gninja said: ↑ “If you are choosing to just continue tanking it rather than swapping then you are choosing to take the reduction in stats. It is not forcing you to do it.” It's not much of a choice to make. On Derig you'd have to swap tanks every 2 rounds to drop the crit debuff before you stop critting at all (unless you have a set of gear to have a ridiculous amount of crit, which tanks are already stat starved enough so that doesn't make sense). So your choices are: 1) leave the same tank on the named full time, leaving with 1 tank with terrible dps only holding the mobs through transfers 2) have 2 tanks and swap out after every 2nd round, leaving a tank that's going to be critting 30-50% of the time (maybe less) to try to pick up swarm adds, so the dps will be tanking them basically 3) have 3 tanks and swap after every 2nd round, leaving 1 tank to stand there and do nothing cause they can't crit, while the 3rd tank tanks the adds till he swaps in for the next round on a fight with dps check like Derig, no one that CAN do it with options 1 or 2, is going to chose option 3 cause they would just run an extra dps class On Irdul the debuff doesn't wear off (unless we're missing something), so either it's intended that you kill Irdul while swapping him across multiple tanks, and each of them gets slightly debuffed before you kill him. Or the same tank has to take all 10 increments and then get 4 curse cures and resets the increments. Once again this comes down to why would you bring 2-3 tanks when all that's needed for the fight is 1, and on a dps check mob why would you bring an extra tank when you could bring more dps. Cause when the options are have 2-3 tanks each doing ~1 million dps...or have one tank doing 700k cause he's debuffed but you get to add 2 more dps doing 5 million + dps, it's pretty clear you're going to chose dps classes to fill those spots. Tank swaps like old Sara Greenheart or the first named in Underdepts (Tel'Koran?) where it was "Mob X doesn't like Tank Y anymore, switch or die" or Maestro in SoH with Mark of Anonymity actually gave a reason to switch. Even the forced swaps on Kreizenn and Vulak are better, of course we've never tested it but I'm guessing there is no hard fail for not having a 2nd tank on Kreizenn and he could just watch the same tank every time if there was only 1 in raid?

11-04-2014, 08:30 PM	#33
Errrorr Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Marq said: ↑ “And is there supposed to be a 2nd quest after the one you get here? tried looking for it in Pirate raid but couldnt see anything around zonein or first name.” Quest should update after first 3 nameds and give you a load more to kill for next updates.

11-04-2014, 10:40 PM	#34
Yajirushi62 Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Gninja said: ↑ “Keep in mind that the zone buffs do not grant the DPS increase you will get from expansion gear so you will have more dps by the time you get there on live.” Yes, but our dps won't go up too much without getting the T1 raid dropped uplifting procs, and with the adds memwiping every 30s, leaving even two up will start to kill our raid since they can one-shot anything but a tank. Also, we're currently in the middle of rebuilding our raid-force, we lost about two groups of players recently and are finally at the point we can manage to scrape together three groups of players about half the time, so are we just stuck not raiding current content (and losing players while we don't raid), or do we try the impossible task of killing a name with one-shot memwiping adds?

11-04-2014, 06:42 AM	#32
Marq New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Did some on sunday and finished on monday so here goes a bit, most has been said already. 1st named looked pretty nice and simple for a first mob. The AE is easy to time and joust, the memwipe tho could use some kinda notice and pref maybe not have it overlap the joust, tho its more a minor nuisance. Mob didnt seem to hit anyone when it wiped and ran thru the raid (not even the person it went to). Nice and simple fight for a starter up. 2nd named, took a few tries to figure out who and what causes everything to go to bad or worse. Good ideas, tho would like to see the stoneskin down timer increased a little bit. Ofc dps isnt what it prolly will be, but for entry zone its a really harsh long fight, not hard but really long if dont get too much time to go in (really sucked for scouts). Tanks didnt seem to take too much a beating from the adds blowing up, only went really bad if some of the other ppl ran in too early and got to dot too and multiplied it more (or killed healers with it). Very annoying fight, simple but dunno if its really on par for a starter raid. 3rd named, seemed sorta iffy. The stacking debuff is easy to handle with 2 tanks if. The port and root in lava basically always seemed to kill the person ported instantly with no notices on being ported or anything. Very very dull fight to scouts in old gear and just beta buff cause they couldnt really go in or they'd die to lava splash (dunno if placing mob diff can help on that). Adds after 50% seemed to have a sorta good logic as long as ppl watched what they hit. The red emote call could maybe use a sec or 2 more before it goes off, on live it will likely be too laggy to react to. Tanking it had some very random lava splash death to 8-9mil hits, when the usual was around 600k or so. Seemed okish for a boss fight, maybe a few tunings needed. Could use some notice of being a timed fight (Maybe like Blaa blaa idol seems to draw power, if you take too long it will kill you, or something that hints it limited). Once we got strat idea down, seemed easier then the 2nd named. And is there supposed to be a 2nd quest after the one you get here? tried looking for it in Pirate raid but couldnt see anything around zonein or first name.

11-05-2014, 01:17 AM	#35
Meshuggahx Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	We just did this zone, was mostly fun, took us about 3 hours to clear it which is not bad for easy zone. I personally enjoyed it as a mage, our scouts less especially on the named that pops golems and the lava guy. Trash hp also is fine imo, took 1-2 mins to clear a trash encounter which is fine. Our monk did seem to get hit harder than our zerker but that's more related to class balance than zone balance.