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Old 11-22-2011, 01:42 PM   #1
Gilli
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These days character development is really all about the AA you have.  Especially as the cap gets higher and higher, we are wanting to fiddle with AA and see what we can do.  Now, I know some of you will say it doesn't matter because there is nothing to change to for your class, but pretend you're a class that can actually change the gameplay (e.g., favor melee vs. healer priest setup).

Well, when RIFT came out I played it for a few months while on EQ2 vacation.  One thing that impressed me was how easy it was to manage your specs.  You had a certain number of spec slots on your character (and could quest to get more) and those slots let you:

  • Save your current spec
  • Name your current spec
  • Save your UI/hot key layout exactly as it was for that spec
  • View specs you weren't currently using, including points accrued/spent
  • Click one button to change it, so long as you weren't in combat
  • Load everything in as it was in about a minute, without having abilities pop in for 10 minutes

In effect, it let me say "hmm, I want healing spec for this fight" and wham, 1 minute later I was good to go. After that fight, I could go back to DPS.  It was beautiful.  I can of course do this in EQ2, but it inovlves getting a mirror, calling to my house, saving my hot key layouts to data files, changing my spec, loading my hot keys up from another save, waiting 10 minutes while everything loads in, and going to wherever I wanted to be. 

Imo, it should be easier for us.  Now that would be a nice feature.  SMILEY

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Old 11-22-2011, 01:56 PM   #2
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[email protected] wrote:

These days character development is really all about the AA you have.  Especially as the cap gets higher and higher, we are wanting to fiddle with AA and see what we can do.  Now, I know some of you will say it doesn't matter because there is nothing to change to for your class, but pretend you're a class that can actually change the gameplay (e.g., favor melee vs. healer priest setup).

Well, when RIFT came out I played it for a few months while on EQ2 vacation.  One thing that impressed me was how easy it was to manage your specs.  You had a certain number of spec slots on your character (and could quest to get more) and those slots let you:

  • Save your current spec <-- you can do this in EQ2 now
  • Name your current spec <-- you can do this in EQ2 now
  • Save your UI/hot key layout exactly as it was for that spec <-- you can do this in EQ2 now
  • View specs you weren't currently using, including points accrued/spent <-- This would be pretty cool actually.
  • Click one button to change it, so long as you weren't in combat <--Other than the one button part you can do this in EQ2 now
  • Load everything in as it was in about a minute, without having abilities pop in for 10 minutes <-- you can do this in EQ2 now, with the /command it only takes 5 seconds for the spec to load.

In effect, it let me say "hmm, I want healing spec for this fight" and wham, 1 minute later I was good to go. After that fight, I could go back to DPS.  It was beautiful.  I can of course do this in EQ2, but it inovlves getting a mirror, calling to my house, saving my hot key layouts to data files, changing my spec, loading my hot keys up from another save, waiting 10 minutes while everything loads in, and going to wherever I wanted to be. 

Imo, it should be easier for us.  Now that would be a nice feature. 

I agree that is should be easier and I'm sure it will become easier next year after DOV part 2, they (SOE) has to have something to "sell" in the next "Feature" expansion.  Calling to your house and changing a spec and calling back to a dungeon is available in the game now.  Exploiting  Using In-Game mechanics such as the House Rating system, Dungeon Finder system or COV gives you the ability to port around at will.  Saving a Hotkey layout is quite simple.  Multiple housing (currently) supports multiple AA specs.

SOE is trying to set a president now (with research reducers) that SC can by time and none of us will be suprised when an AA spec switching device is offered up on the Marketplace.

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Old 11-22-2011, 03:37 PM   #3
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Until you've experienced it I believe there is no comparison to changing whenever you want vs. having to say "guys, wait a minute, I need to call home and respec before we do this."   The "pocket AA mirror" I've heard requested would help this out though imo a built-in UI to do it would be superior.

For the loading in for 10 minutes thing, I know it switches it instantly, but my abilities pop in and muddy up free slots on my hot bar for the next 10 minutes.  And everything I have set as an endcap to my class AA tree resets every time I respec... annoying.

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Old 11-22-2011, 04:10 PM   #4
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Now, just to be clear, in Rift, you aren't just spec'ing AA's, you are literally changing your entire character.  All of it's abilities (and hotbars) swap out when you change specs.  In some cases, the change can be quite extreme, going from a T1 DPS to a backup healer for instance.

In EQ2, it's less complex and less extreme.  Most of your abilities remain intact, only those bestowed by AA are added (or subtracted) from your available bag of tricks.

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Old 11-22-2011, 04:15 PM   #5
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Same way in WOW, which I playered for 6+ years...

You could easily go from Tanking to DPS to Healing all on the fly and all with one button push.  Different classes had different spec, all you really needed to do was switch your gear and med back your power/mana.  Classes such as Paladin or Druids could be equally effective in Tank/Heal/DPS roles depending on this of the three specs they choose.  Out of the three "trees" available you could choose to load two of them.  Just needed to carry around a change in gear.

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Old 11-22-2011, 04:52 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

These days character development is really all about the AA you have.  Especially as the cap gets higher and higher, we are wanting to fiddle with AA and see what we can do.  Now, I know some of you will say it doesn't matter because there is nothing to change to for your class, but pretend you're a class that can actually change the gameplay (e.g., favor melee vs. healer priest setup).

Well, when RIFT came out I played it for a few months while on EQ2 vacation.  One thing that impressed me was how easy it was to manage your specs.  You had a certain number of spec slots on your character (and could quest to get more) and those slots let you:

  • Save your current spec
  • Name your current spec
  • Save your UI/hot key layout exactly as it was for that spec
  • View specs you weren't currently using, including points accrued/spent
  • Click one button to change it, so long as you weren't in combat
  • Load everything in as it was in about a minute, without having abilities pop in for 10 minutes

In effect, it let me say "hmm, I want healing spec for this fight" and wham, 1 minute later I was good to go. After that fight, I could go back to DPS.  It was beautiful.  I can of course do this in EQ2, but it inovlves getting a mirror, calling to my house, saving my hot key layouts to data files, changing my spec, loading my hot keys up from another save, waiting 10 minutes while everything loads in, and going to wherever I wanted to be. 

Imo, it should be easier for us.  Now that would be a nice feature. 

I've got an equally good idea.  Why not let 6 people make a group.  Don't bother to have any healers, tanks, DPS or utility classes, let's just let people what they want to be as the group progresses.  Let them just decide, "hey we haven't planned this very well", and simply press a button to create whatever they are short of.  Yah, let's make the game even easier!

The alternative, of course, is to think about where you are going and what you will need before you set out.  That way tanks can tank, healers can heal, and casters can cast spells (surprise!).

I played Rift and hated this feature, it was one of the features I left the game over - it makes no sense at all!  All you need to do is plan!  You need 2 healers?  Take 2 healers!  You need power regen?  Take an illy or coercer.  It's not difficult.

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Old 11-22-2011, 05:33 PM   #7
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kahonen wrote:

I've got an equally good idea.  Why not let 6 people make a group.  Don't bother to have any healers, tanks, DPS or utility classes, let's just let people what they want to be as the group progresses.  Let them just decide, "hey we haven't planned this very well", and simply press a button to create whatever they are short of.  Yah, let's make the game even easier!

^^ Man .. you can do this too in EQ2 (when AOD is launched) .. by simply using the DYOD Avatar.  You guys need some original ideas.

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Old 11-22-2011, 05:46 PM   #8
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kahonen wrote:

I've got an equally good idea.  Why not let 6 people make a group.  Don't bother to have any healers, tanks, DPS or utility classes, let's just let people what they want to be as the group progresses.  Let them just decide, "hey we haven't planned this very well", and simply press a button to create whatever they are short of.  Yah, let's make the game even easier!

The alternative, of course, is to think about where you are going and what you will need before you set out.  That way tanks can tank, healers can heal, and casters can cast spells (surprise!).

I played Rift and hated this feature, it was one of the features I left the game over - it makes no sense at all!  All you need to do is plan!  You need 2 healers?  Take 2 healers!  You need power regen?  Take an illy or coercer.  It's not difficult.

That isn't how Rift works.  Yes, you can, for instance, go from a Pyromancer / Elementalist build (a very heavy DPS build) to something like a Chloromancer / Necromancer (a healing heavy build) and such.  Both of those builds are "technically" within the Mage calling.

However, that Chloro build isn't going to outheal someone who is of the Cleric calling who is built for healing.  In fact, that Chloro is probably only going to be a backup healer in anything but the most modest content.

Now, to turn our attention to the game at hand . . . there is absolutely NOTHING within *any* of the EQ2 AA trees that can come even remotely *close* to the radical changes possible in Rift.  This game just isn't built that way, and that's fine, it works for EQ2.

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

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Old 11-22-2011, 05:48 PM   #9
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Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

Exactly this.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:05 PM   #10
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Changing AA spec on the fly would add a very nice dimension to what's a pretty one sided game IMO, I've advocated this for a  long time even before Rift came out.  Of course this would be trusting the devs to be able to tune the content to give us viable choices for bringing a certain AA spec to an encounter, which at this point I wouldn't trust them to do anything without unbalancing or breaking it.  But if the content could indeed be tuned IMO it would be exciting to add adjusting your spec as part of your strategy as a healer, tank, utility, dps, etc.  As it is now each class has virtually one spec they use most of the time for tough group content or raiding.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:06 PM   #11
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Double post please delete.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:12 PM   #12
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[email protected]_old wrote:

kahonen wrote:

I've got an equally good idea.  Why not let 6 people make a group.  Don't bother to have any healers, tanks, DPS or utility classes, let's just let people what they want to be as the group progresses.  Let them just decide, "hey we haven't planned this very well", and simply press a button to create whatever they are short of.  Yah, let's make the game even easier!

^^ Man .. you can do this too in EQ2 (when AOD is launched) .. by simply using the DYOD Avatar.  You guys need some original ideas.

Do you think, just maybe, that you missed the sarcasm?

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:14 PM   #13
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Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

Errr, no.  Planning on what you need to take and then taking it is good gaming!

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:16 PM   #14
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kahonen wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

Errr, no.  Planning on what you need to take and then taking it is good gaming!

Strategizing which AA spec would be the strongest for a particular encounter is good gaming IMO.  Sure I see your point, but I don't see how giving players instant AA specs will make encounters easier.  Rather the opposite, if content is tuned to give us choices on how to spec our players that will add a degree of enjoyable difficulty.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:23 PM   #15
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kahonen wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

Errr, no.  Planning on what you need to take and then taking it is good gaming!

Having a bunch of raid members have to swap to alts because we need more dps or a different healer type for each encounter is good gaming!

Seriously. If a healer isn't needed and they don't have a dps spec or aren't in it, we might as well make them switch to an alt to actually do dps with the dps checks around.

And it's not like it's wow, where I can take my Druid and go from ranged dps, to melee dps, to tanking to healing all with fixing my talents. If anything, over there it should be the game that makes you haul back to town to switch. And you had to at first. Then they changed it. :/

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:25 PM   #16
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Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

+1, cause some people mistakenly think that you can pre-plan the best spec for the duration of an entire zone.

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Old 11-22-2011, 09:29 PM   #17
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Even Guild Wars has a better system

I love how in GW you can copy/paste your setup code so others can try it or you can easily try another setup.

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Old 11-22-2011, 10:22 PM   #18
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+1 outside of old dnd mages who forget their spells and must relearn them before casting, I do not see why you cannot incorporate aa mirrors on the fly. I totally agree there should be limits to one's available arsenal during combat, but to forget what you know and need to go home to change (study) your alternate skill-set is sort of ridiculous in the flow of combat and strategy and siege raiding (which high end raiding is attempting to associate with)
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:42 AM   #19
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There is absolutely no reason at this point why EQ2 shouldn't allow saving 3-4 AA specs on your character and being able to switch them on the fly (with a 15 minute or 30 minute cooldown).

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Old 11-23-2011, 11:30 AM   #20
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feldon30 wrote:

There is absolutely no reason at this point why EQ2 shouldn't allow saving 3-4 AA specs on your character and being able to switch them on the fly (with a 15 minute or 30 minute cooldown).

That will probably be in the next $40 expansion.

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Old 11-23-2011, 11:31 AM   #21
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Being able to change AA specs on the fly simply makes things easier.

For those with high tradeskillers and high adventuring it is a god-send to have a TS spec.  You can go through your crafting much quicker with a TS spec than a Adventure spec.  And I can't count the number of times that myself or others in the raid have had to take the time to go and switch their specs from TS to ADV.

Then there are some of the classes that spec for single-target and AOE-target specs.  Granted the amount of DPS changing those specs is not an outstanding change it does make a difference.  Same with healers, some have different specs when they are out soloing content and raiding. 

It is just something that would make things easier for the players without impacting the game.  For a game that "listens to their customer base" this should be something that would be high on their list of things to do.

Personally I don't see a need for more than 3 but that is just me. 

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Old 11-23-2011, 06:51 PM   #22
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Trynt wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

+1, cause some people mistakenly think that you can pre-plan the best spec for the duration of an entire zone.

I dont support being able to tweak your spec on an encounter by encounter basis.  Thats horrible game design(and a large part of the reason I dont like Rift).  What is the point of having choice if there is no consequence to it?

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Old 11-23-2011, 07:14 PM   #23
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Trynt wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

+1, cause some people mistakenly think that you can pre-plan the best spec for the duration of an entire zone.

I dont support being able to tweak your spec on an encounter by encounter basis.  Thats horrible game design(and a large part of the reason I dont like Rift).  What is the point of having choice if there is no consequence to it?

Argue against the existence of AA mirrors and AA reset NPCs if that's your philosophy.  Anyone can change their specs per encounter right now, so I'm sure you're not suggesting that meaningful consequences exist today (pretty much in any facet of the game).

As it stands, what exists presently is simply an outdated design.  It's inconvenient and inefficient... but certainly not consequential.

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Old 11-23-2011, 07:20 PM   #24
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Trynt wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Trynt wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Still, there is absolutely no reason that someone can't havea a "Rift-like" portable AA mirror, useable only out of combat, that allows you to switch between one of four AA specs.  It really isn't that ridiculous.  In fact, it's simply good gaming.

+1, cause some people mistakenly think that you can pre-plan the best spec for the duration of an entire zone.

I dont support being able to tweak your spec on an encounter by encounter basis.  Thats horrible game design(and a large part of the reason I dont like Rift).  What is the point of having choice if there is no consequence to it?

Argue against the existence of AA mirrors and AA reset NPCs if that's your philosophy.  Anyone can change their specs per encounter right now, so I'm sure you're not suggesting that meaningful consequences exist today (pretty much in any facet of the game).

As it stands, what exists presently is simply an outdated design.  It's inconvenient and inefficient... but certainly not consequential.

The AA mirror is fine since it allows you a second AA spec (and I agree it should be portable).  I dont really know of anyone who would use a traditional AA respec mid-raid, but then I dont do hardcore raiding.

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