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Old 09-21-2012, 06:28 PM   #1
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My raid guild ran ST first time last night, we were okay with the first two named.

But what I'm gritting my teeth at is the fight with Ingolf Arnor that just plain ate us.  That power drain is brutal, and I'm the only Coercer.  We have sometimes two Illys, but usually just one, and we've been okay with that up til now.

So...I've been doing some searching for info and found that it takes 2 Coercers and 2 Illys.  Is this set in stone?  I've often heard devs say that there is supposed to be no "setup" for raid/instances, but given what I've been told, I have to wonder what's going on.  By what I've read, one Coercer and one/two Illys should be just as enough as the 2/2 setup I've been told about.

I've been told the aoe's proc a dot that ticks power down.  Is there a way to deal with that?  Cure faster, heal faster?  We're standing in the wrong spot?

Thanks in advance!

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Old 09-21-2012, 06:39 PM   #2
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We 3 grouped the entire easy mode zone with 1 illy and 1 coercer. And yes cure before it ticks, pre-cure using the cast bar, have the person with the curse joust before curing them etc all help. Didn't even take 8 minutes on the 3rd named.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:47 PM   #3
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Chronus1 wrote:

We 3 grouped the entire easy mode zone with 1 illy and 1 coercer. And yes cure before it ticks, pre-cure using the cast bar, have the person with the curse joust before curing them etc all help. Didn't even take 8 minutes on the 3rd named.

Good gods...

Thanks for the info, I'll pass it along.

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Old 09-22-2012, 03:02 PM   #4
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yea, the last name died abruptly..    like no one was expecting it to die so fast lol

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Old 09-24-2012, 11:11 AM   #5
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Milas? Hold on. He didn't die, did he? He ran away... Agree. Power drains are bad. I am only coercer in a raid too and it's a pain. And we have three illys...
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:08 PM   #6
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OP, were you curing the cursed person while he was in range of your raid?

Have the cursed person run at least 10 meters away, have the curse cured, have them wait till the on cure effect expires, then return. 

Its the on cure effect and the on expire effects tied to the curse that are likely draining your power.   The drain on the regular aoe isn't very brutal at all.

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Old 09-24-2012, 04:11 PM   #7
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Ulrichvon wrote:

OP, were you curing the cursed person while he was in range of your raid?

Have the cursed person run at least 10 meters away, have the curse cured, have them wait till the on cure effect expires, then return. 

Its the on cure effect and the on expire effects tied to the curse that are likely draining your power.   The drain on the regular aoe isn't very brutal at all.

I'm the Coercer, but pretty sure the cursed were cured.

Ahah, thanks.  More info is great. SMILEY

I've been searching for more and more info on these fights, and I appreciate the help from all of you!

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Old 09-26-2012, 03:38 AM   #8
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Okay, after a second raid night on Ingolfa, I'm close to cursing the dev who created this fight.  >_<

The healers are curing fast, we all do our jobs with the dps on the mobs, but it's that power drain which is kicking us in the teeth.  I see the initial drain, and then it seems to just tick with each attack.  I power feed immediately, and the 30 secs until I can feed again is eternity to wait during which I see more power drainage.  Wash rinse repeat wiped raid.

Is there nothing at all to counter/prevent the power drain for this fight?  I didn't see anyone get cursed, at least I don't recall it.  I was too busy keeping Cannibalize Thoughts and Manacloak on a constant rotation and Manaflow going to the ones who needed it worse.  Yes, the necros passed out hearts, mystics used Spirit Tap, but it just wasn't enough.

Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to find out something that can help us.  We have only one Coercer, myself.  We have one Illy, sometimes two, but usually just one.

I've been told that only hardcore, hardgeared raiders can do this with one Coercer/one Illy.  I really hope that's not true, if so, we're going to be stalled for awhile.  >_<

Thanks in advance.

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Old 09-26-2012, 04:35 AM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

Okay, after a second raid night on Ingolfa, I'm close to cursing the dev who created this fight.  >_<

The healers are curing fast, we all do our jobs with the dps on the mobs, but it's that power drain which is kicking us in the teeth.  I see the initial drain, and then it seems to just tick with each attack.  I power feed immediately, and the 30 secs until I can feed again is eternity to wait during which I see more power drainage.  Wash rinse repeat wiped raid.

Is there nothing at all to counter/prevent the power drain for this fight?  I didn't see anyone get cursed, at least I don't recall it.  I was too busy keeping Cannibalize Thoughts and Manacloak on a constant rotation and Manaflow going to the ones who needed it worse.  Yes, the necros passed out hearts, mystics used Spirit Tap, but it just wasn't enough.

Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to find out something that can help us.  We have only one Coercer, myself.  We have one Illy, sometimes two, but usually just one.

I've been told that only hardcore, hardgeared raiders can do this with one Coercer/one Illy.  I really hope that's not true, if so, we're going to be stalled for awhile.  >_<

Thanks in advance.

If the person with the curse is cured, people nearby are stunned. If the curse falls off 'naturally', a massive damage and power drain pulse from the person.

The best strat is to have the person with the curse joust to just within cure range, get cured and then come back when the stun falls off.

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Old 09-26-2012, 04:38 AM   #10
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Mermut wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Okay, after a second raid night on Ingolfa, I'm close to cursing the dev who created this fight.  >_<

The healers are curing fast, we all do our jobs with the dps on the mobs, but it's that power drain which is kicking us in the teeth.  I see the initial drain, and then it seems to just tick with each attack.  I power feed immediately, and the 30 secs until I can feed again is eternity to wait during which I see more power drainage.  Wash rinse repeat wiped raid.

Is there nothing at all to counter/prevent the power drain for this fight?  I didn't see anyone get cursed, at least I don't recall it.  I was too busy keeping Cannibalize Thoughts and Manacloak on a constant rotation and Manaflow going to the ones who needed it worse.  Yes, the necros passed out hearts, mystics used Spirit Tap, but it just wasn't enough.

Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to find out something that can help us.  We have only one Coercer, myself.  We have one Illy, sometimes two, but usually just one.

I've been told that only hardcore, hardgeared raiders can do this with one Coercer/one Illy.  I really hope that's not true, if so, we're going to be stalled for awhile.  >_<

Thanks in advance.

If the person with the curse is cured, people nearby are stunned. If the curse falls off 'naturally', a massive damage and power drain pulse from the person.

The best strat is to have the person with the curse joust to just within cure range, get cured and then come back when the stun falls off.

Thank you!  I'll pass this along.

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Old 09-26-2012, 09:47 AM   #11
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Mermut wrote:

If the person with the curse is cured, people nearby are stunned. If the curse falls off 'naturally', a massive damage and power drain pulse from the person.

The best strat is to have the person with the curse joust to just within cure range, get cured and then come back when the stun falls off.

Actually, that's for Paldar Bladesoul, not Ingolfa.  SMILEY

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Old 09-26-2012, 11:56 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Mermut wrote:

If the person with the curse is cured, people nearby are stunned. If the curse falls off 'naturally', a massive damage and power drain pulse from the person.

The best strat is to have the person with the curse joust to just within cure range, get cured and then come back when the stun falls off.

Actually, that's for Paldar Bladesoul, not Ingolfa. 

Doh! Somehow I missed the name of the mob the OP was working on. Thanks for the correction, Tylia.

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Old 09-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #13
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Mermut wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Actually, that's for Paldar Bladesoul, not Ingolfa. 

Doh! Somehow I missed the name of the mob the OP was working on. Thanks for the correction, Tylia.

I've never noticed a power drain on Ingolf, only Paldar.

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Old 09-26-2012, 07:54 PM   #14
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Doh...good catch!

Yeah, it's Ingolfa.  First hit, about a quarter drop in power, then it ticks down.  I set off Manaflow, but in the 30 secs to wait, the other two groups drop to less than half power.  I feed one of the others, and the one I just fed is dropping fast.  I can't keep up with the power drain at all.

I don't know what the power drain is, I can't keep up with it.  We wipe with no power, or very little power, or if I drop.

This whole fight has me confused.  I don't know where the power drain is, how to get around it or fight it or prevent it.

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Old 09-26-2012, 08:43 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

Doh...good catch!

Yeah, it's Ingolfa.  First hit, about a quarter drop in power, then it ticks down.  I set off Manaflow, but in the 30 secs to wait, the other two groups drop to less than half power.  I feed one of the others, and the one I just fed is dropping fast.  I can't keep up with the power drain at all.

I don't know what the power drain is, I can't keep up with it.  We wipe with no power, or very little power, or if I drop.

This whole fight has me confused.  I don't know where the power drain is, how to get around it or fight it or prevent it.

Are you an priest/mage attacking the wrong phantasm? 

I'm just guessing as I said, I've never noticed a power drain on that particular fight.   Its just the right archtypes fighting the right phantasms and killing the banshees when they spawn.

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Old 09-27-2012, 02:03 AM   #16
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Ulrichvon wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Doh...good catch!

Yeah, it's Ingolfa.  First hit, about a quarter drop in power, then it ticks down.  I set off Manaflow, but in the 30 secs to wait, the other two groups drop to less than half power.  I feed one of the others, and the one I just fed is dropping fast.  I can't keep up with the power drain at all.

I don't know what the power drain is, I can't keep up with it.  We wipe with no power, or very little power, or if I drop.

This whole fight has me confused.  I don't know where the power drain is, how to get around it or fight it or prevent it.

Are you an priest/mage attacking the wrong phantasm? 

I'm just guessing as I said, I've never noticed a power drain on that particular fight.   Its just the right archtypes fighting the right phantasms and killing the banshees when they spawn.

I'm the Coercer.  When the arcane phantom and the keening banshees pop, I have a macro to /target them.  I always check my target and I'm right on them each time.

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Old 09-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #17
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You have to kill the adds quickly enough to not get power drained. For the fighter/scout ones just have the melee attack them. Have a troub put abhorent verse on the ot of choice for the mage/priest one and have the mages full burn it. We only got 4 or 5 adds with 3 groups iirc.

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Old 09-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #18
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Pheep,

Are you reaching a point in the fight where both the arcane and physical are both up at the same time?   I'm pretty sure that is intended as a fail condition.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:38 PM   #19
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Pheep,

Are you reaching a point in the fight where both the arcane and physical are both up at the same time?   I'm pretty sure that is intended as a fail condition.

No, we get thru those and the banshees.  We go along just fine with power, just when it's gone, bam, wipe.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #20
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Just to give a bit more info, I watched vids of the Ingolfa fight.  Watching the raid window, I saw the initial hit with the arcane, it's cured, but right on the heels of that there's a power tick that takes abaout a quarter of the power.  A few seconds later is another one, same thing.  The power comes back and watching the effects around the raid I see it's the Manaflow.  Both raid vids have two Coercers feeding power.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:43 PM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

Pheep,

Are you reaching a point in the fight where both the arcane and physical are both up at the same time?   I'm pretty sure that is intended as a fail condition.

No, we get thru those and the banshees.  We go along just fine with power, just when it's gone, bam, wipe.

Yeah, I'm at a loss.

I raid with different raid forces and both have killed this mob without seeing any big drain or fail conditoin outside of not killing the banshees or not getting the phantasm dead before the next one spawns.

Does it have a challenge mode version by pulling it out of the room like in the heroic instance?

I'm just grasping at straws at this point.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #22
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Ulrichvon wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

Pheep,

Are you reaching a point in the fight where both the arcane and physical are both up at the same time?   I'm pretty sure that is intended as a fail condition.

No, we get thru those and the banshees.  We go along just fine with power, just when it's gone, bam, wipe.

Yeah, I'm at a loss.

I raid with different raid forces and both have killed this mob without seeing any big drain or fail conditoin outside of not killing the banshees or not getting the phantasm dead before the next one spawns.

Does it have a challenge mode version by pulling it out of the room like in the heroic instance?

I'm just grasping at straws at this point.

We take her where she stands.  The raid is away from the named and deals with the adds, ranging her when they're down.

Oh, no worries, thank you, and everyone, for helping in this.  I appreciate it greatly.

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Old 09-27-2012, 03:54 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

We take her where she stands.  The raid is away from the named and deals with the adds, ranging her when they're down.

Oh, no worries, thank you, and everyone, for helping in this.  I appreciate it greatly.

No worries Pheep, you're good peeps.

I just know we killed this one night with only two chanters a coercer and a illy, and the power drain wasn't something anyone really commented on.  Maybe its the number of mystics we have, maybe its proc gear, maybe its how fast we killed it, can't really say exactly.

Good luck!

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Old 09-27-2012, 11:21 PM   #24
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YES!  We just killed it!  /falls over thud

2 Mystics with Spirit Tap, Illy, 2 Troubs feeding, and my Coercer...omg.

We wiped about three times but we did it.  

There is a huge power drain detriment that hits the raid right off the bat when engaged.  It sits there and dots.  There's another from Ghastly Vapor, and another from the Rage one.  So a huge power drain if things aren't cured etc.

Thank you all for the help!

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Old 09-28-2012, 05:33 PM   #25
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If things aren't cured being the crucial phrase there, things should always be cured.

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Old 09-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

YES!  We just killed it!  /falls over thud

2 Mystics with Spirit Tap, Illy, 2 Troubs feeding, and my Coercer...omg.

We wiped about three times but we did it.  

There is a huge power drain detriment that hits the raid right off the bat when engaged.  It sits there and dots.  There's another from Ghastly Vapor, and another from the Rage one.  So a huge power drain if things aren't cured etc.

Thank you all for the help!

Grats to you and your guild Pheep!  There is just nothing like the feeling of finally killing a mob that you have been working on for a while.  SMILEY

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Old 09-29-2012, 07:11 PM   #27
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Chronus1 wrote:

If things aren't cured being the crucial phrase there, things should always be cured.

Oh definitely what we do.

The only thing that can't be cured is this perm detriment she puts on, Planar something, that makes you lose power with every hit...or attack...something like that.  I was too busy with power and killing the arcane and such to really read it.  So this in combination with the curables is a PITA for power.

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Old 09-29-2012, 07:12 PM   #28
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Tylia and Ulrich, thank you!

Yah, I really am not looking forward to killing her again.  But at least we now know how to wrangle power etc.

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Old 10-01-2012, 01:15 PM   #29
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I ran it in a pug raid this weekend and now i see what you're talking about.

The two regular raid-forces I'm in were all pre-curing the ae effect and often times even the first tick was missed.  But in the pug, cures were slow and tick tick tick away.

So much of raiding is about healer's ability to pre-cure, it sometimes surprises me to be in raids where it doesnt happen.

Here is a link to simply the most important raid healer training tool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QPt7yQcSTI

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Old 10-01-2012, 06:40 PM   #30
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OP power drains as usual is the devs favorite...granted it can be mitigated pretty well with coordinated pre-cures...but if a healer is off his internal cure clock by a little bit whamo.

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