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Old 01-04-2012, 03:21 PM   #1
Valdaglerion

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  • The daily mission needs to have the throttle removed. This was said in beta, said after initial deployment and vehemently being said now. The reasons are fairly simple:
    • The leveling is far too slow for this feature. It will take 6-8 months to have all recipes completed, it is doubtful they will be desired at that time.
    • Reactants are too rare. Initially (because I obtained one soon on) I estimated they would be about the rarity of a rare harvest (which was still too low) but appears to be even lower. I am round robining 2 dozen+ crafters daily and have received 1 colossal reactant to date.
  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?
  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.
Removing the throttle would seriously enhance the fun factor for us crafters for this feature which is a good portion of the xpac for us. Being able to at least grind to level our apprentices at a faster rate allows us to obtain the recipes while they are still viable and gives us a better chance of obtaining reactants in quantities that make the decoration effects viable as well from a price perspective to be competitive with the higher effects.
Thanks for the consideration.

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Old 01-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #2
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.

I could be wrong but I question this.  The apprentice gives you a quest appropriate to your TS level even if they aren't currently researching anything at all.  Some of mine are done with the 90s and are working on the 80s and still receive the same rares and whatnot.

I don't agree that they should remove the throttle and let people grind nonstop, but I wouldn't mind if the timer was reduced to 12hrs and the apprentice gives you an idea how long before they're ready again.  Sometimes mine don't have the "Here, let me show you.." option even after 24hrs.

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Old 01-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.

I could be wrong but I question this.  The apprentice gives you a quest appropriate to your TS level even if they aren't currently researching anything at all.  Some of mine are done with the 90s and are working on the 80s and still receive the same rares and whatnot.

I don't agree that they should remove the throttle and let people grind nonstop, but I wouldn't mind if the timer was reduced to 12hrs and the apprentice gives you an idea how long before they're ready again.  Sometimes mine don't have the "Here, let me show you.." option even after 24hrs.

Yup, regardless of what you're researching the rewards are based on your crafting level. My provisioner just got into the 80s and now gets the same rewards as my 90 crafters.

I'd like the apprentices to at least reset at midnight pacific. 24 hours is meh. It's pretty silly to make them equipment too but that's just because I think they must be VERY wasteful to need a new apron, mallet, etc, every few days. I'd rather see something more interactive like maybe "crafting" a recipe with them to show them how a technique is done, could be initiated akin to commissions or something.

Also agree with the OP that the greater essences will never be researched or made due to the reactant requirements. Make them require rares for that tier but reactants? Nope, no thanks. I've only gotten one reactant so far from all of this, the tier 7 one, and while I doubt I'll ever see a colossal anytime remotely soon I certainly would not waste it on a particle effect.

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Old 01-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #4
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Cyliena wrote:

I'd like the apprentices to at least reset at midnight pacific. 24 hours is meh. It's pretty silly to make them equipment too but that's just because I think they must be VERY wasteful to need a new apron, mallet, etc, every few days. I'd rather see something more interactive like maybe "crafting" a recipe with them to show them how a technique is done, could be initiated akin to commissions or something.

I think they changed it to around 18 hours. I've been able to coach well before the same time on the previous day.

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Old 01-04-2012, 05:48 PM   #5
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Very simply put, you have a "Master" crafter who is making things for his "Apprentice".  WT%?  This may be the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen.

This would be much more realistic if the Apprentice learned by watching you craft in your own home.  Remove the ridiculous throttling so that people can actually make these recipes while they are still viable.

And yes, that means the reactants need to be a lot more common.  I mean, as was said above, who is going to waste a seriously rare raw on a particle effect?  A *particle effect*!!

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Old 01-04-2012, 06:41 PM   #6
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Banditman wrote:

Very simply put, you have a "Master" crafter who is making things for his "Apprentice".  WT%?  This may be the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen.

This would be much more realistic if the Apprentice learned by watching you craft in your own home.  Remove the ridiculous throttling so that people can actually make these recipes while they are still viable.

And yes, that means the reactants need to be a lot more common.  I mean, as was said above, who is going to waste a seriously rare raw on a particle effect?  A *particle effect*!!

Also--and call me a tin-foil hat wearer--the randomness of the reactants is not so random.  I've had 3 level 90's doing the daily quest every single day--no colossals.  I've had a parade of various alts moving up through the different tiers, and guess what?  Lower tier reactants are raining down like stars.

Now, maybe the three level 90's just have really bad RNG luck.  But one of them is Strep, and she usually has awesome luck harvesting rares.

I've seen this on the adventuring side as well.  3 of our guild members take lowbie alts to Ruins of Varsoon.  3 Simmering reactants drop--boom, boom, boom.  We all run level 90 zones again and again and again--no colossals. 

They're throttling the number of level 90 reactants, I'm telling you.  And I'm generally not one of the paranoic crowd.

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Old 01-04-2012, 06:59 PM   #7
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I've just about given up on all my apprentices.  Far as I can tell t's a complete waste of time.  I get my really cool looking tailor recipe with some pretty good stats only to find I can't afford the mat needed to craft it and it's going for completely outrageous prices on the broker.  Then you (SOE) release a new backpack on SC taking more business away from backpack sales.  Thanks. 

I mentor them once a day, but I'm not doing the run back and forth from house to guild hall to craft for them anymore.  It's stupid.  I was really looking foward to some new recipes, but now I can't affort to craft them.

Oh, wait, then there's the fact that my carpenter didn't even get any carpenter recipes, she got jewelry, and my provisioner's food has a max duration of 37 mins.  This little "stuff pack" (as it was fluff only no content just stuff) was completely and totally overpriced and a waste of money.

SOE, please, please, please stop producing useless SC garbage (there is a right way to do SC and you're not doing it) and start fixing the game you continue breaking every time you touch it.  I'd rather see no new content AT ALL if the loooong list of borkination was taken care of.

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Old 01-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #8
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • The daily mission needs to have the throttle removed. This was said in beta, said after initial deployment and vehemently being said now. The reasons are fairly simple:
    • The leveling is far too slow for this feature. It will take 6-8 months to have all recipes completed, it is doubtful they will be desired at that time.
    • Reactants are too rare. Initially (because I obtained one soon on) I estimated they would be about the rarity of a rare harvest (which was still too low) but appears to be even lower. I am round robining 2 dozen+ crafters daily and have received 1 colossal reactant to date.
  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?
  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.
Removing the throttle would seriously enhance the fun factor for us crafters for this feature which is a good portion of the xpac for us. Being able to at least grind to level our apprentices at a faster rate allows us to obtain the recipes while they are still viable and gives us a better chance of obtaining reactants in quantities that make the decoration effects viable as well from a price perspective to be competitive with the higher effects.
Thanks for the consideration.

if the particle effects were actual procs that would solve that issue.

if these particle effects were damage procs, on top of other procs, they might actually get made by someone who isnt clinically insane. currently they are worth less than semi rare mob drops (which are about a million times more common than a colossal reactant dropping from mob).

colossal reactant>major(mob dropped semi rare)>minor(mob dropped but also crafted version requiring colossal)

on top of that, the minor has 15 days to research for recipe. that needs to be beefed up, or have its required components nerfed.

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Old 01-04-2012, 09:53 PM   #9
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Banditman wrote:

This would be much more realistic if the Apprentice learned by watching you craft in your own home.  Remove the ridiculous throttling so that people can actually make these recipes while they are still viable.

Considering that we're not likely to see a cap raise anytime soon, these items should be viable for a good long time. At the very least, all level 90 item sets should be available on each server right now, so this throttling is no longer a problem. It's just a matter of finding the crafters and the items to make them.

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Old 01-05-2012, 12:29 AM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Banditman wrote:

This would be much more realistic if the Apprentice learned by watching you craft in your own home.  Remove the ridiculous throttling so that people can actually make these recipes while they are still viable.

Considering that we're not likely to see a cap raise anytime soon, these items should be viable for a good long time. At the very least, all level 90 item sets should be available on each server right now, so this throttling is no longer a problem. It's just a matter of finding the crafters and the items to make them.

Viability has nothing to do with level cap increases though. Take, for instance, Sentinels Fate is level 90 and everything there was rendered garbage with DoV. New content releases will bring newer gear and such that render what came before not as desirable, its the nature of the thing.

And I too have given up on the apprentices as of tonight. Spent another 2 hours running toons through it for a handful of garbage raw materials I could have harvested in 3 minutes and a bunch of potions which are worthless to maxed toons.

And I agree the Colossals are being throttled, noticed this in both the daily missions and adventuring as well. The lower end stuff you can get reactants for and the price of them drops daily because no one seems to be buying them and no one is wasting the time researching for them except as they level toons and that is their top level of the toon.

I may be mistaken on the daily mission being given at the toon level, duly noted. Sorry for the inaccurate observation on that one.

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Old 01-05-2012, 12:44 AM   #11
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?

The big problem here is binding an appearance effect, and a major gear upgrade, to the same ingredient (Colossal reactants).  They have to stay rare (to some degree, how rare is debatable), or the world will be flooded with cheap exceptional gear.  And staying rare, the appearance effects will rarely if ever be desired.   It was the same problem provisioners had when the food and drink used colossal reactants.  Who would ever make 30 min food or drink out of a reactant that makes an execptional piece of gear, or sells for 1000p to someone else so they can make the gear? 

They could maybe fix that issue by introducing a more common T9 reactant for appearance items.  A Colossalish reactant that makes the appearance effects, and drops as frequently as the other tier reactants.  And keep the Colossal reactant for making gear rare.

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Old 01-05-2012, 04:10 AM   #12
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Cyliena wrote:

I'd like the apprentices to at least reset at midnight pacific.

I just checked this out and they do reset at this time.

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Old 01-05-2012, 05:04 AM   #13
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It's helpful to refer to them as Recipe Research Assistants. In Beta, you just hailed them every 24 hours and it reduced the research time by 4 hours. The end. And they were all Coldains. Players said they were boring, bland, and should have more options and interactivity. So the daily quests to make stuff for them were added, and the options of female human and othmir, and the other flavor text.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:55 AM   #14
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Viability has nothing to do with level cap increases though. Take, for instance, Sentinels Fate is level 90 and everything there was rendered garbage with DoV. New content releases will bring newer gear and such that render what came before not as desirable, its the nature of the thing.

This right here.

We have "the other half" of Velious coming in February (so we have been told), and in order for that content to be more than just useless fluff, the gear has to upgrade what we already have.

I said it immediately when AoD was released, I'll say it again now:  These recipes are double throttled, and it's stupid.  Either control the entry of items via the extremely low rate of recipe aquisition or throttle it via a controlled introduction of reactants.

In either case, the items are going to be made obsolete in less than two months.

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:51 PM   #15
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Perhaps adding the reactants to the loot tables of the crafting missions as a Far Seas Innovation reward and possible chest drop is one solution. The time requirement for doing those missions is still significant, adding the reactant as a reward should not be difficult. 

While not a perfect solution it would at least add another avenue to crafters to obtain the colossal reactant.

And for the record I have made the same comments time and again about the double throttle on these things. Having a timesink coupled with a rare drop is a bad thing. This feature in its current implementation has lost all appeal as fun, entertaining or even useful to me at this point.

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Old 01-05-2012, 08:26 PM   #16
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • The daily mission needs to have the throttle removed. This was said in beta, said after initial deployment and vehemently being said now. The reasons are fairly simple:
    • The leveling is far too slow for this feature. It will take 6-8 months to have all recipes completed, it is doubtful they will be desired at that time.
    • Reactants are too rare. Initially (because I obtained one soon on) I estimated they would be about the rarity of a rare harvest (which was still too low) but appears to be even lower. I am round robining 2 dozen+ crafters daily and have received 1 colossal reactant to date.
  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?
  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.
Removing the throttle would seriously enhance the fun factor for us crafters for this feature which is a good portion of the xpac for us. Being able to at least grind to level our apprentices at a faster rate allows us to obtain the recipes while they are still viable and gives us a better chance of obtaining reactants in quantities that make the decoration effects viable as well from a price perspective to be competitive with the higher effects.
Thanks for the consideration.

So, lets just say that all the t9 recipes get invalidated by drops from solo content in the next update. How does that invalidate the t1-t8 recipes? When your listing 6-8 months your talking about everything. T9 recipes your talking about 4-8 for most classes. At 15 days each (that means your doing no daily quests or mentoring) your talking 2-4 months. Cut about a third off that if you log in daily to advance things.

As for saying reactants are too rare, too rare for what? What standard or goal are YOU measuring it by? I'm betting the rarity is hitting the right numbers are far as development is concerned. They want colossal reactants to be available but rare. They don't want everybody to have this gear. They don't want this to become the new standard armor. At the current rarity serious buyers can afford 1 or 2 peices. I think that is about right.

And yes, serious buyers can afford this. I am by no means a plat farmer but if I scrape the bottom of the barrel I can come up with the 1400p that people are asking for on AB. If I got serious about chasing colossal reactants I could start farming PR daily and soloing old instances for 6p a crack. I could even join one of those obnoxious auction groups and farm DoV chest peices for sale. Since this is adventure gear we're talking about and adventurers can make plat perty fast...adventurers will control the prices on the broker. Right now crafters are controlling the supply of material.

As for the daily apprentice quest: reward is based on the crafter's level. My 30-ish armorer got 30ish reactants while researching level 10 recipes.

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Old 01-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Very simply put, you have a "Master" crafter who is making things for his "Apprentice".  WT%?  This may be the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen.

This would be much more realistic if the Apprentice learned by watching you craft in your own home.  Remove the ridiculous throttling so that people can actually make these recipes while they are still viable.

And yes, that means the reactants need to be a lot more common.  I mean, as was said above, who is going to waste a seriously rare raw on a particle effect?  A *particle effect*!!

Also--and call me a tin-foil hat wearer--the randomness of the reactants is not so random.  I've had 3 level 90's doing the daily quest every single day--no colossals.  I've had a parade of various alts moving up through the different tiers, and guess what?  Lower tier reactants are raining down like stars.

Now, maybe the three level 90's just have really bad RNG luck.  But one of them is Strep, and she usually has awesome luck harvesting rares.

I've seen this on the adventuring side as well.  3 of our guild members take lowbie alts to Ruins of Varsoon.  3 Simmering reactants drop--boom, boom, boom.  We all run level 90 zones again and again and again--no colossals. 

They're throttling the number of level 90 reactants, I'm telling you.  And I'm generally not one of the paranoic crowd.

The drop rate seems to be better the lower the tier of the reactant. I wouldn't be suprised if the apprentice quest mirrored the drop rates from adventuring.

Now, why would you expect something that is rather common (t1 reactants) as an adventure drop to be really rare from the apprentice quest? Conversly, why would you expect something extremely rare (t10 reactant) to be more common from the apprentice quest than from adventuring? Both are legitimate avenues to persue to get the same reward.

As it is, crafters have a huge advantage. We do a single combine quest to get the same (or better?) chance as someone that runs EoW. If a colossal reactant does appear...the group has to split it. 1 in 6 chance. Us? 1 in 1 chance. Much better odds. And with a single combine quest, you have time to spin through all your alts. Most people can't do all of the drunder and EoW every day.

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Old 01-05-2012, 08:34 PM   #18
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Perhaps adding the reactants to the loot tables of the crafting missions as a Far Seas Innovation reward and possible chest drop is one solution. The time requirement for doing those missions is still significant, adding the reactant as a reward should not be difficult. 

While not a perfect solution it would at least add another avenue to crafters to obtain the colossal reactant.

And for the record I have made the same comments time and again about the double throttle on these things. Having a timesink coupled with a rare drop is a bad thing. This feature in its current implementation has lost all appeal as fun, entertaining or even useful to me at this point.

Have you stopped doing the daily apprentice quest?

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Old 01-05-2012, 11:46 PM   #19
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Perhaps adding the reactants to the loot tables of the crafting missions as a Far Seas Innovation reward and possible chest drop is one solution. The time requirement for doing those missions is still significant, adding the reactant as a reward should not be difficult. 

While not a perfect solution it would at least add another avenue to crafters to obtain the colossal reactant.

And for the record I have made the same comments time and again about the double throttle on these things. Having a timesink coupled with a rare drop is a bad thing. This feature in its current implementation has lost all appeal as fun, entertaining or even useful to me at this point.

I agree with adding the reactants as a possible drop from the Far Seas Innovation and as a likely reward from the daily missions. It's not like someone will be able to run all of their level 90 crafters through those missions more than once a day, unlike the apprentice quests.

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Old 01-06-2012, 01:07 AM   #20
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I think TS apprentices are a waste of time. i really wanted apprentices who would make arrows and food etc. so I didn't have to. I wanted them to be useful - currently they are a big waste of time and I never bother with the few I have. I surely don't waste time on the daily mission since whatever I get is NOT HEIRLOOM.

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Old 01-06-2012, 01:52 AM   #21
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Maroger wrote:

I think TS apprentices are a waste of time. i really wanted apprentices who would make arrows and food etc. so I didn't have to. I wanted them to be useful - currently they are a big waste of time and I never bother with the few I have. I surely don't waste time on the daily mission since whatever I get is NOT HEIRLOOM.

So start a new thread making that request. If they were made similarly to the guild harvesters it shouldn't be a problem. You get charged for them every month along with the house rent, and they only do about 8 combines in 2 hours (about the same as the harvesters, you can get more material out of 8 nodes with zero double harvest) and then you have to pick up your materials, give them new resources and tell them what to make.

But this is entirely the WRONG THREAD for a new idea. Start your own.

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Old 01-06-2012, 03:38 AM   #22
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I am sure they are throttled at t9 because I run approximately 30 toons through the apprentices every day and of those 13 are level 90 and the rest are varying degrees of t1- t5 and I have gotten 2 collossals and about 20+ of the t2- t5 tiers so far. The reactants are not spread out evenly over my toons no matter how you look at it.

I agree that the essenses are rediculous, no one will waste a reactant on them, well no one in their right mind imo. The only reason I do them on my prov's is to get the reward and possible collossal reactant, I will never use the food or drink.

I also have had that bug where the "let me show you..." option does not appear but the crafting one does, it won't show up until the next day for me on ALL my apprentices, not just randoms ones but ALL of them at the same time.. Very weird.

They need work but so far so good except that there are no Gnomes!! What kind of place is it where I can't get gnomes to work at slave wages for me?

It may sound crazy but not having gnomes has been the biggest disappointment for me, I do not like the race options we have for them, I have all humans after the first few looked so bad after placing them... One day I will trade them all in for the human model but I really wish they would add Gnomes.

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Old 01-06-2012, 08:29 PM   #23
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Banditman wrote:

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Viability has nothing to do with level cap increases though. Take, for instance, Sentinels Fate is level 90 and everything there was rendered garbage with DoV. New content releases will bring newer gear and such that render what came before not as desirable, its the nature of the thing.

This right here.

We have "the other half" of Velious coming in February (so we have been told), and in order for that content to be more than just useless fluff, the gear has to upgrade what we already have.

I said it immediately when AoD was released, I'll say it again now:  These recipes are double throttled, and it's stupid.  Either control the entry of items via the extremely low rate of recipe aquisition or throttle it via a controlled introduction of reactants.

In either case, the items are going to be made obsolete in less than two months.

when it comes to a $40 pre-order expansion, and one of its main features...

gotta love double throttling something with (likely) extremely limited shelf life. i've been mulling over using reactants on my beastlord. probably smarter to just sell them.

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Old 01-07-2012, 03:10 AM   #24
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Meirril wrote:

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • The daily mission needs to have the throttle removed. This was said in beta, said after initial deployment and vehemently being said now. The reasons are fairly simple:
    • The leveling is far too slow for this feature. It will take 6-8 months to have all recipes completed, it is doubtful they will be desired at that time.
    • Reactants are too rare. Initially (because I obtained one soon on) I estimated they would be about the rarity of a rare harvest (which was still too low) but appears to be even lower. I am round robining 2 dozen+ crafters daily and have received 1 colossal reactant to date.
  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?
  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.
Removing the throttle would seriously enhance the fun factor for us crafters for this feature which is a good portion of the xpac for us. Being able to at least grind to level our apprentices at a faster rate allows us to obtain the recipes while they are still viable and gives us a better chance of obtaining reactants in quantities that make the decoration effects viable as well from a price perspective to be competitive with the higher effects.
Thanks for the consideration.

So, lets just say that all the t9 recipes get invalidated by drops from solo content in the next update. How does that invalidate the t1-t8 recipes? When your listing 6-8 months your talking about everything. T9 recipes your talking about 4-8 for most classes. At 15 days each (that means your doing no daily quests or mentoring) your talking 2-4 months. Cut about a third off that if you log in daily to advance things.

As for saying reactants are too rare, too rare for what? What standard or goal are YOU measuring it by? I'm betting the rarity is hitting the right numbers are far as development is concerned. They want colossal reactants to be available but rare. They don't want everybody to have this gear. They don't want this to become the new standard armor. At the current rarity serious buyers can afford 1 or 2 peices. I think that is about right.

And yes, serious buyers can afford this. I am by no means a plat farmer but if I scrape the bottom of the barrel I can come up with the 1400p that people are asking for on AB. If I got serious about chasing colossal reactants I could start farming PR daily and soloing old instances for 6p a crack. I could even join one of those obnoxious auction groups and farm DoV chest peices for sale. Since this is adventure gear we're talking about and adventurers can make plat perty fast...adventurers will control the prices on the broker. Right now crafters are controlling the supply of material.

As for the daily apprentice quest: reward is based on the crafter's level. My 30-ish armorer got 30ish reactants while researching level 10 recipes.

Too rare to justify the reward for the effort in obtaining them. We can separate T9 as it is really the only thing people want at this juncture. (I say that because I have obtained over 60 lower tier reactants and obtain them faster than I can sell them, they are simply not desired.)

Let's take the Alchemist for a moment... 13 T9 recipes of which 3 are gear and 10 are appearances so 23% of the recipes are game affecting while 77% are appearance.  These share a primary component. The component is far too rare to justify using it for a decoration which means that 77% of the recipes are likely to go unused, call it wasted development time.

The Major Essences which are the full particle effect are far less expensive on the broker than the Colossal Reactants used to make the Greater Essences, again - ensuring the further value reduction of the 77% of the recipes.

Do I think the fabled gear should be common place? Not necessarily but I dont think they should have made these Apprentices provide recipes that have 2 throttles on the useful items and 3 on the appearance items and had them share a primary component to begin with. Timesink of getting the recipes and dependency of an ultra rare component are the first 2 throttles, paying plat to the reforger for a single use appearance adornment is the 3rd, albeit a lesser one.

And its really not a matter of affording the astronomical price of the colossal reactant. Sure, most of us could pay 1000p for one but why would you when you buy spend half that and buy loot rights to better gear, 1/4 to 1/3 depending on when the opportunity arises. For players who are not boxing and might get 1 of the 6p per instance that drops, think of running 1000 instances (say 700-1000 hours of gameplay?) to get enough plat to buy a single piece of gear OR an appearance adornment? 

The fact I have over 2 dozen crafters and have received 1 Colossal Reactant during the dailies since AoD went live...too rare.

And yes, I have stopped doing the dailies - a better use of the 2+ hours was to knock out PR and do another instance or 2 instead.

In short, the rarity of the reactants and their implementation to be used for both appearance and game affecting items negates the fun factor and entertainment value of these features as a majority of their recipes can not feasibly be used and will end up as a waste of time in obtaining.

I wish it wasnt so, I thought this might be a fun feature.

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Old 01-07-2012, 04:50 AM   #25
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I agree mostly, but I know why they made the recipes take so long. It's to make them last until the next expansion. The same reason they make everything slow, like Shard/Mark farming and the like.

What I don't like about the current setup is anyone that can't log in every. single. day. is going to be essentially penalized on what recipes they can or cannot learn. People that have no life (like me) can log in every day and learn recipes much faster than they can, and they have no way to catch up.

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • Due to the rarity of the Colossal reactant it is highly unlikely the Greater Essence of XX will ever be desired with the current implementation. 
    • Colossal Reactants are selling for average 1000p
    • If you have the gear or better it is more advantageous to sell the reactant than spend 1000p to put a particle effect adornment on your weapon which is a single use only
    • Major Essence of XX which is the highest level of particle effect are selling for 20-500p on our server. Why get a greater effect if you can buy major for less?

The rarity of the colossal reactants is causing a lot of issues. For one thing, there's pretty much zero reason for a Provi to learn any of the level 90 recipes, because nobody in their right minds would waste 1000p on a few food. At the very least, if rarity will not be addressed, these recipes need to be treated the same way that ammo is treated from those Tender's Secrets recipes - you can make 750 ammo with each rare because, well, they were rare. Reactant food should be similar, and give you far more per combine. And as mentioned, I highly doubt anyone will waste a colossal reactant on a silly particle effect. I doubt even raiders would waste reactants on food/essences as it currently stands. Better to just make an easy 1k plat.

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

  • With regards to the daily mission. . . if appears as though once you have researched all the Tier 9 recipes you will no longer be able to get the ultra rare chance for the Colossal Reactant as the level of reward is matched to the level of recipe. So once crafters have completed their research of a tier they effectively have no way of obtaining the reactants from these daily missions period.

Your opportunities will eventually run out, but actually the reward is based on the tier of the crafter, not the tier of the recipe. Even if you research tier 1 recipes, your rewards will still be T9 (if you're a 90 crafter). However, I did bring this up before. After crafters research all their recipes, then what? At that point only adventurers will have access to crafting materials (and only certain adventurers at that, as they seem to be limited to very specific zones that are out of reach for much of the population).

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Old 01-07-2012, 12:38 PM   #26
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If you want a better path to reactants, add them to the DM loot market.  5k DM for one colossal reactant.  2500 for the level 80, 1000 for the level 70... down to 25 DM for the lowest level ones.  Make the DM-version heirloom.

At 5k DM per colossal you won't be seeing a ton of them flood the market but it would offer many players a path (even if a very long one) to colossals. It also would give the DM system a much-needed boost.

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Old 01-07-2012, 01:41 PM   #27
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CatamanderEQ2 wrote:

If you want a better path to reactants, add them to the DM loot market.  5k DM for one colossal reactant.  2500 for the level 80, 1000 for the level 70... down to 25 DM for the lowest level ones.  Make the DM-version heirloom.

At 5k DM per colossal you won't be seeing a ton of them flood the market but it would offer many players a path (even if a very long one) to colossals. It also would give the DM system a much-needed boost.

Good idea! Or even as a chance reward for using DF.

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Old 01-08-2012, 12:54 AM   #28
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CatamanderEQ2 wrote:

If you want a better path to reactants, add them to the DM loot market.  5k DM for one colossal reactant.  2500 for the level 80, 1000 for the level 70... down to 25 DM for the lowest level ones.  Make the DM-version heirloom.

At 5k DM per colossal you won't be seeing a ton of them flood the market but it would offer many players a path (even if a very long one) to colossals. It also would give the DM system a much-needed boost.

I am all for alternate paths but the same issue remains, the majority of the recipes will remain unused. No-Trade and Heirloom tags serve no real game purpose, its a throttle to players is all and a point of frustration at one point or another to a good majority of players.

The DM seems to be about 200 DM for 1 - 1.5 hours of play. At 5000DM for a colossal that would equate to 25 - 38 hours of dungeon grinding. Hmmm, I dont know - maybe I am just getting too old to play MMO's anymore if this is what they are coming to.

Asking someone to spend the equivalent time they spend to earn a paycheck at playing a video game to "earn" a piece of virtual gear seems a bit much. The grinding treadmill of these games and the artificial throttles they are adding to make subpar content last longer is too much I think.

And yes, I know the reason the throttles were added is to make the content last longer so people dont burn through it in 2 weeks. I am glad when I go to a movie they dont only let you watch 5 minutes of it each day to make you feel as though you are earning your progression.

I think people have forgotten that we pay a monthly subscription to have access to entertainment but the last few years it feels more like paying for the privilege to work for a "random chance" at having some fun.

Like I said, maybe I am just getting too old to play these types of games anymore . . . /shrug 

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Old 01-08-2012, 10:52 AM   #29
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You're aware MMOs were originally designed as a "grind" system?  And you're aware that today's modern MMOs are about 1/100th the grind the original ones were right?

Did you skip a generation in your gaming or is this the only video game you play?

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Old 01-08-2012, 06:08 PM   #30
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

The DM seems to be about 200 DM for 1 - 1.5 hours of play. At 5000DM for a colossal that would equate to 25 - 38 hours of dungeon grinding. Hmmm, I dont know - maybe I am just getting too old to play MMO's anymore if this is what they are coming to.

Asking someone to spend the equivalent time they spend to earn a paycheck at playing a video game to "earn" a piece of virtual gear seems a bit much. The grinding treadmill of these games and the artificial throttles they are adding to make subpar content last longer is too much I think.

Given how good the rewards from a colossal reactant are, 25 hours running dungeons seems like a reasonable deal.  Even if you play only a handful of hours a week, you could have one in a month's time. The whole point of how MMO progression works is that the time you put in produces more reward.  More time = more reward / better reward.  

If more people were running them more often, there would also be more incentive for us builders to make more of them and compete to make the best ones.  Right now that is not happening.

Finally, colossals are clearly overvalued right now.  I can prove that because the SLR cost of gear equivalent to what is made with colossals is 20-33% of the price of colossals.  Where colossals should be is in the 250-500 plat range, not 1500+.  Their current value is not rational.  

Valuing heirloom colossal reactants at 5k DM per places them somewhere nearer their rational value and below their current market value, which should help to regulat the cost of the tradable colossals back down nearer the 250-500 plat mark.

So, I see the addition of the 5k DM heirloom colossals as serving a number of good purposes: 1. it provides another path to colossals, 2. it provides more colossals for use in recipes, 3. it will increase demand for the DM system (which needs a boost), and 4. it should devalue the no-drop colossals down to a more rational value nearer their SLR equivalents.

I do think that valuing the colossals much less than 5k DM is probably too low.  25 hours seems a reasonable time investment for the reward.  Plus, they need to stay relatively rare and valuable.

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