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Old 12-21-2011, 06:58 AM   #31
Brigh

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I don't have a carpenter but I am really getting pi$$ed at SoE for ruining crafters over time.

So many things are being put out that should be made by players. SoE is saying screw community and player economy so they can make cash off people.

Even tailors get it up the chimney by SoE with all this appearance gear. The stuff they can make in-game uses rares and looks stupid.

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Old 12-21-2011, 09:13 AM   #32
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I've just got to throw in with all of the other decorators.. It's Kind of upesetting to see that on the marketplace. I too buy things from the marketplace here and there... pretty clothes, houses, mounts. but I won't be buying these. Way too many would be needed for a project... and I'm not made out of SC! If these stay SC and are not made availabe to carpenters to craft, I'll just be sticking to using items found in-game to make things I want.

It really is a bad dicision to put things like this up for SC..

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Old 12-21-2011, 10:16 AM   #33
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Simple solution --- make the RECIPE for the building blocks buyable with SC ... then it puts it in-game for the carps and decorators, yet still makes a buck for SOE.  I don't think many carps would moan about paying $5 or even $10 for the ability to make these sets - bundle it with 3 or 4 different textures and the deco community will be very happy.

But selling by the set ? Not so smart ... you over-estimate how much we're willing to spend to build a home.

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Old 12-21-2011, 10:21 AM   #34
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Such is the way of the new F2P model, we should have all seen stuff like this coming in hard and fast.

HOWEVER instead of it being just a pack of blocks why not sell the recipes for SC and perhaps a component of that recipe as fuel off the SC instead.

Making the research assistance for Carps able to make the recipe but you have to buy the fuel off SC a stack for like 200sc or something. Therefore you still make the money you have to to support the f2p but it doenst feel like its a continual cash grab.

At least being able to make or do them reasonably cost effective is better than bending over and ramming it up... I mean stealing the wallets, of those who do like to decorate.

*maybe get some more creative people in marketing as well as the ones there seem to be stuck way back in 2001 in terms of ideas, or so it seems. Plenty of good and bd ideas in the community thinktank, might be wise to look at it instead of that spreadsheet that will get you the yearly bonus at the water cooler. 

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Old 12-21-2011, 11:07 AM   #35
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If you really really feel you have to stuff over carpenters, house builders and decorators and still want to make money (which you obviously do), then heres 2 ideas... 

1)  Make the recipie books SC items only.  Have all the levels in it and finishes same as tiles and dividers at the various levels but have them all in one book that can be scribed at level 1 and as you hit each segment of levels, the new patterns become available.

2)  Introduce a set of Legendary recipies that can only be crafted if you are a gold member ( remember those of us that paid for 6 years to get to this stage and are still paying...  do you???)

Do you really understand the concept of what you have done and what your players do here??   you laughingly state that you can get a pack of 10 floor tiles for 250 station cash.   The latest house I am working on at an Island location has 300 floor tiles in it,  agreed not all on the floor, but whatever..  thats 7,500 station cash..  ermmm  not gonna happen.

Please put these back in a packing crate, along with the stupid research assistant and if you need to make money off them,  give them to a starwars game or something.

Oh yes, and finally,  as per your own description of a character.. Monks wear leather not chain..  geez..  get some developers who understand this game and how it's played, please and get rid of the accountants who seem to be running it these days.

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Old 12-21-2011, 11:09 AM   #36
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Add me to the growing list of totally ticked off carpenters/decorators. I sure chimed in during Beta that carpenters should have gotten DM items for their Tradskill Apprentices. Now I see why silence was the response to my and others expressed thoughts on this subject.

From the list of new items I suspect building blocks were added in to aid duneon makers who are not crafters. And looking at all the DM products it appears that SOE will be getting folks to pay dearly for the ability to create new content for the game.

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Old 12-21-2011, 11:55 AM   #37
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Here to also voice my displeasure at the basic building blocks being SC only.

As I stated in the Homeshow thread I feel they should have in the very least been dungeon token purchased items, but much more preferably from a new book somewhere in the world.

Put them in a new recipe book from the crafting instances. Something. SC only is ridiculous, especially for the prices asked.

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:05 PM   #38
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A dear friend of mine who, due to her job, has little time to play made a plea for selling items via a cash shop that can also be obtained in game as being more fair to someone who wants to get in and play but hasn't the time for the gear grind treadmill, that someone without time for the gear treadmill is cut out of nearly all game content, especially group content. I can -almost- see her arguement.. except...

Name one item first introduced in the EQ2 Marketplace cash shop that was then made obtainable in-game (i.e. without paying SC). It's also possible to point to many items which were once non-SC items but then added to the Marketplace and never seen as a non-SC item again. There are even examples of things added to the cash shop which were identical in appearance to items in-game, which had been in-game with that appearance long before the cash shop opened, that then had the in-game (non-SC) item have its appearance changed so it would not conflict with the cash shop one.

The fact building blocks weren't put in as faction merchant items, special recipe books, fest or festival merchant items, etc., but as cash shop ones is disheartening. Due to the previous history noted above, this means it is super highly unlikely we'll ever see them added to the game in any other way. Just like the tailors and armorers have never gotten any of the re-coloured versions of the appearance stuff that's been in the cash shop.

If a recipe book for one of these sets was put in the apprentice research at 80 and the other at 90 along with the choice of whatever jewelry item the carpies get the opportunity to make, it would have given the high level carpenters a choice on making house items or adventurer items as their first reasearched recipes.

Al that aside, the pricing seems more than a bit 'out of whack' unless, while pricing items in the market place, they take into account the lowest dollar to SC conversion possible. Instead of thinking 100SC = $1, they're thinking 300SC = 1$. Thus a 50SC item isn't 50 cents, it's considered as 17 cents. I'm sure someone is thinking 17 cents isn't too much for one. But, if the items had been 10SC each, while still high when you consider it in bulk, the price point would have been easier to swallow.

I know there are several in the gallery saying "I told you so" (and actually my voice was in the 'doomsayers&#39SMILEY, but I am a bit disheartened by the oh so tight relationship of EQ2 and the cash shop as it has evolved. Even pre-F2P, the cash shop was looming more and more over the game as a whole. Now.. thoroughly entwined. What isn't going to be monetised?

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:16 PM   #39
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What can I say I have to agree with the sentiments here. I also love my fluff and have bought many houses and mounts and such. I think the issue here is not SC but that its now coming to a point where its undermining the game. I have always thought that as for housing items it should have always been unique items, not furniture and certainly not for something people have been asking for, for years.

And its not just the carpenters but also tailors, weaponsmiths, armorsmiths and so forth. All the appearnce stuff onmarketplace but yet what little there is in game is awful in comparision. The idea here should not be to compete with the player made stuff but to compliment it. If the basic cherry set of furniture had been given to carpenters and then you added special pieces to add to set in marketplace I think you would do much more in sales, and not made the player base feel cheated in the process.

Believe me I get that this is a business, but you need to support the player base not compete with it. The marketplace should compliment in game elements, not take away from them. Sorry to say but I think this move was just plain folly.

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:31 PM   #40
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i posted in the thread about this in the homeshow forum, but i'll post here as well.

the building blocks being sold for SC means i will not be buying them. i buy a lot of items from the marketplace and have not objected to anything there so far, but this i object to. i cannot afford to buy the amount of building blocks i would need to put them to use.

this new path you all are taking with EQ2... i don't think i can follow. i just paid $60 for an expansion that wasn't an expansion, and now you've finally given us basic building materials, but they are not attainable for me? decorating is literally the only reason i play EQ2. i'm... really, really disappointed.

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Old 12-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #41
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As a carpenter and decorator i agree with the building block rants these should be crafted items , but i did have an imediate need for 2 items and was very disappointed, the range that they are scaleble is very limited and small making most of them unusable so at least make them so they will scale larger (pillars and the beam at least).  For now i wont be buying anymore till they get bigger and please make them a crafted item.

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Old 12-21-2011, 03:06 PM   #42
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I as well am a carpenter/decorator. Not a very good one but one nonetheless. I bought a couple of the building blocks/columns on the marketplace to see how they scaled and if they'd really be useful. We would have to buy soooo many of them to be able to do anything remotely decent for a house for the breakouts or in my case the Tenebrous Tangle Island. They're really great items and I'm glad they were made but definitely the wrong road of putting them on marketplace. Now, like others have said, if the recipes to make them were put on marketplace that'd be great. Even if you made the block heirloom so they couldn't be sellable on the broker so people would have to buy the recipe for themselves, I'd personally be okay with that but buying a single block for 50 SC I'm most definitely not ok with.  I'll stick to only buying mounts, prestige houses and appearance gear and just let my main's TT island remain without a house.

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Old 12-21-2011, 03:40 PM   #43
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I'm not even a carp or decorator (except decorating my own house just for fun, not even that good at it!) but I totally agree with everyone else; you screw over the community in hopes to gain extra cash in the short term. What you're going to end up doing is pushing everyone into the newer games, given they have some of the features they like, and even if they lack some that EQ2 has.. many people would be willing to give things up for a less horrid approach to everything. You guys have really dropped the ball lately. It's gotten worse and worse over time. As though us paying 15 bucks a month to play your game isn't enough, the things people have been desperately asking for have been delivered, but at an inflated price on SC (and I say inflated because you'd have to buy so many of the sets to be able to even do anything remotely cool with them). You should've thought about your crafters and people who work hard in the community and given them recipe books to be able to make the building blocks; even if the recipe was a SC purchase, I'm sure many would buy it. You say you want to bring community together, hence part of the reason for the Freeport revamp, yet you make a decision to sell something as huge as Building Blocks on the SC instead of letting it be a crafted recipe which would encourage extended community? It's sad, really.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #44
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[email protected] wrote:

Calthine wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Putting the building blocks on the marketplace is a really bad idea.  Definately a slap in the face to carpenters and decorators 

I agree.  This should have been a craftable in the first implimentation.  Perhaps additional models could then be Station Cash.

I posted in the Homeshow thread, but I'll add my two coppers here.  Yes, I buy SC stuff--I have from the start.  What can I say?  I like my toys.  I've never griped about anything that's been put on the Market.

Until today.  

I have to agree---this was a serious mis-step.  Building blocks should have gone to carpenters first.  Period.  

There's stuff I haven't bought on the Marketplace simply because I wasn't interested in it.  This is the first time I won't be actively buying something in my own small way of protesting it.

SmokeJumper, you've listened to the playerbase before.  You're a smart and reasonable guy.  Please take a look at this thread here and the matching one in the Norrathian Homeshow forum.  Tradeskillers and decorators desperately want these things--but NOT on the Marketplace.  Not at first blush, anyway.

Please consider taking these down (letting people who've already purchased them keep them, of course), and giving them to us carpenters.  Heck, I'll quest for them.  I'll pay for them.  Just let me get them IN-GAME.

Later on, you can sell super-duper versions of them for SC.  

How's about it?

I agree 100%  serious oops on your part.  Huge slap in the decorator/carpenter face

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:58 PM   #45
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I posted in the other thread in the Homeshow forum, but I too agree that this was a HUGE slap in the face for carpenters and decorators.  The decorating community has been begging for building blocks for years.  And the price point is redonkulous...50sc per item?  We would need 100s of those to build a house.  I originally was anti-marketplace, but over the last few years have broken down a bit and bought houses and a pegasus.  But basic building blocks should be a recipe for carpenters.

I know the decorating community has banded together and won't be purchasing these, and I hope other players will follow our lead.

Shame on you $oE... 

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Old 12-21-2011, 06:15 PM   #46
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I would have to say the worst part and 'slap' as everyone is mentioning is that Domino has known how badly some of the items have been wanted and needed by the decorating and crafters and for how long. Bumped up to a new position what better way to get a pat on the back from the boss than to add a way to make money (great) but at the same time kick the people who have been at your side for so long (crafters and the like community). I hope they see the errors of this way and adjut and change it to be advantageous to BOTH sides that way we can see the cool products of the items, AND SOE can still make the dollars and support the game.

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Old 12-21-2011, 06:15 PM   #47
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

I posted in the other thread in the Homeshow forum, but I too agree that this was a HUGE slap in the face for carpenters and decorators.  The decorating community has been begging for building blocks for years.  And the price point is redonkulous...50sc per item?  We would need 100s of those to build a house.  I originally was anti-marketplace, but over the last few years have broken down a bit and bought houses and a pegasus.  But basic building blocks should be a recipe for carpenters.

I know the decorating community has banded together and won't be purchasing these, and I hope other players will follow our lead.

Shame on you $oE... 

  Yes the communities of decorators and carpenters have pulled together to say no to this rediculously overpriced item that should have long been a carpenter recipe. By the way SOE where are the communities new recipes? They sure weren't in the new expansion. OH, THAT'S RIGHT....they are being offered to us in large increments of station cash now and not actual recipes. If you think i am stupid enough to spend a hundred dollars to build one simple structure on the tenebrous island home then your sadly mistaken. This is the worst decision i have seen you guys make in the years i have played this game. Yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with the marketplace in general i have made a few purchases i admit. But Just like that prior poster said the decorating/carpenter community is saying no to these items. You want to slap US in the face!? than that's what you get! 

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Old 12-21-2011, 07:49 PM   #48
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Posted this in the homeshow thread but I wanted to post it here as well...

 

Here's another idea. As some have said once something is up for SC it never shows up in game for free. So how about this. Leave the sets there for SC but lower the price to more acceptable amount (maybe a couple of SC per block). Then, have all the blocks available to GOLD account players as basic carpenter recipes.

Something like this: You could have a whole category of building block items, door and window frames, various 1, 5, 10 , and 20 step stair sets, trapezoid and triangle pieces, etc. in all the various textures of course. Each available for SC at a couple SC each or sets of say 20 for 30 or 50 for 50. Then the whole category is also a basic carpenter recipe set for gold account holders.

That would be FAR more tolerable that the slap in the face you have right now.

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Old 12-21-2011, 09:07 PM   #49
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As I posted over in Homeshow, *IF* we see additional designs available ingame, either as a Carpenter recipie or even as a purchased item from the City Festivals and Grottos, then I'm perfectly fine with some designs being on the Marketplace. Heck, I'd even be fine with the RECIPIE being from the Marketplace so my Carpenter could spend a little SC and then proceed to make what he wants with it ingame.

Or give Carpenters the same recipies ingame as the Marketplace offerings, but make the SC ones not count against a home item count, while player-made blocks do -- that'd be a nice selling point for the Marketplace without resorting to nickel-and-diming players.

But if this is all intended to be a Marketplace-only offering, then I'll be quite annoyed.

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Old 12-21-2011, 09:07 PM   #50
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I just lost all interest in Dungeon Maker because you put the rewards I farmed and earned as SC items for the next weeks players. Enjoy your lame money grabs.

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Old 12-21-2011, 09:46 PM   #51
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And, to add to it, if you're THAT hard-up for some easy cash, here's a few ideas that could earn Sony some extra greenbacks without infringing on the ingame content:

One idea is to put the City Festival merchandise on the Marketplace on the opposite schedule from it's ingame event:

Ingame ---- MarketplaceGorowyn --- QeynosKelethin ---- FreeportNeriak ------ New HalasQeynos ---- GorowynFreeport --- KelethinNew Halas - Neriak

Premiere the new items for each Festival on the Marketplace. People who feel they HAVE to have the items right now WILL buy them on the Marketplace (assuming you use some common sense when pricing them)... and three months later, we can all buy as many as we want ingame at the City Festival.

When I was building a Kelethin airship, I had to wait five months for the Kelethin City Festival to return when I found myself lacking Kelethin wood tiles -- I would have GLADLY bought them for a REASONABLE amount of SC if it meant not having to wait for five months. (And do note that emphasized part: a reasonable price, not the current bleed-em-dry price)

Another idea is to premiere the new Grotto items on the Marketplace a week or two before they go live in the Grotto events -- or even a month in advance, showcasing the new rewards that will be ingame next month on the Marketplace this month when the event begins. Same idea as above -- people who really want them or are just sick to death of grinding root beer for that creepy old goat or who missed the event entirely will buy them for SC, and we still have the option of just waiting a month to get them ingame.

And yet another idea is to have an ingame merchant on the Nek Docks near the Shady Swashbuckler (say.. Shady Jr, the Swashy's eldest son). When you complete certain major storyline quests (ie, the Claymore questline, the Swords questline, the Prismatic questline, etc), you can pick ONE item as a quest reward -- but now the rest of those rewards would unlock on this merchant once the quest is completed for a SC price. Can't decide between the Qeynos Claymore and the Qeynos Shield? Want to dual-wield those spiffy Lucanic weapons? Pick one as a reward, and buy the other from Shady Jr now that you've unlocked the quest. And if the item stats are an issue, then just make the SC version of these items appearance only.

That same merchant could even sell us additional copies of the Legend and Lore trophies once we unlock each by completing the appropriate quest. I've always wanted to do a fishing dock in my New Halas breakout, but I don't have nearly enough of those LnL fishing poles!

And if you want to get really crazy, give Carpenters recipies for the exact same items you have on the Marketplace. We can craft to our hearts content. And what will intice people to spend some money on the Marketplace? Make those items not count towards a home's item limit. Or give them a scripted functionality -- say, changing the white cushions on the Cherry Grove furniture to be blue or pink or green or whatever color the owner desires. Or give the Marketplace building blocks a scriptable texture change capability, so they're an all-in-one item for multiple texture uses (while the ingame crafted pieces would be limited to one specific texture). Or give Marketplace items scripted actions that the ingame crafted versions lack, such as the ability to sit in them and have your character do basic animations, such as sipping tea or eating a meal or chatting. Or heck, all of the above!

You CAN make the Marketplace work WITH the ingame assets without taking anything away from either side -- these are rough ideas I came up with in under a minute, and I'm pretty sure you can do better. And none of these ideas have any adverse effect on what we have ingame. It's not that hard to add revenue-generating content to a game like EQ2 without killing the golden goose for a quick snack, and then wondering where all the eggs went. But if you don't want us to actually PLAY the game, why even bother offering subscriptions?

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:17 AM   #52
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Iskandar wrote:

You CAN make the Marketplace work WITH the ingame assets without taking anything away from either side -- these are rough ideas I came up with in under a minute, and I'm pretty sure you can do better. And none of these ideas have any adverse effect on what we have ingame. It's not that hard to add revenue-generating content to a game like EQ2 without killing the golden goose for a quick snack, and then wondering where all the eggs went. But if you don't want us to actually PLAY the game, why even bother offering subscriptions?

This is exactly what needs to happen. You should never compete with your own product, to do so is killing whatyou are trying to build.

Some quick ideas...let the tailors have the appearance armor....THEN with SC you can buy a closet for your house that will hold say 25 items.

Same for weaponsmiths ...they make the appearance weapons THEN with SC you buy an armor rack to store them allin. Same would work for jewerly.

Carpenters should always get the furniture recipes and that way more people will have the items in their houses THEN with SC you can make special items that would go with the set, such as a clock, special lighting, accessory items. In this way you are complimenting game items not competing with them.

Maybe have mounts you could quest in game that you could buy special tack for. Sort of dress up your mount. God I could sit here all day and come up with ideas that dont directly compete with the player base.

I am sure I am not the only one that remembers that at one time it was stated that prestige housing was suppose to be able to be obtained in other means but station cash but so far I have not seen one quested house. The closet you have to that is that one in the raid zone. How about a small halfling inspired house that could be quested. Maybe as a special holiday quest. You really need to hear what is being said here. You really do have something special with this game and it does have tons of potential. Your not acting like a company that believes in their product. This all is starting to smell of desperation. That may not be the fact but as we all know its rarely about the truth but instead what it appears to be.

Dont kill that goose.....

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Old 12-22-2011, 04:47 AM   #53
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Stonethumb wrote:

I would have to say the worst part and 'slap' as everyone is mentioning is that Domino has known how badly some of the items have been wanted and needed by the decorating and crafters and for how long. Bumped up to a new position what better way to get a pat on the back from the boss than to add a way to make money (great) but at the same time kick the people who have been at your side for so long (crafters and the like community). I hope they see the errors of this way and adjut and change it to be advantageous to BOTH sides that way we can see the cool products of the items, AND SOE can still make the dollars and support the game.

.. @[email protected] ?

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Old 12-22-2011, 05:05 AM   #54
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I already voiced my concern in the Homeshow and will do it here as well. With every expansion Carpenters get new recipes, but not this time apparently as someone decided to allow us to craft jewelry with dungeon-drop items instead, and the items we've been waiting for for years now have them sell per item/package for real money. This is really not fair.

SOE please please pretty please put these items as new carpenter recipes, as that's where they belong.

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:27 AM   #55
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These building blocks are simply not fluff items and to put out there for Station Cash is sinfully wrong. Since these items are essential to be used as the corner stones of many large decorating projects the sheer volume required makes buying them impractical.  It is ill-conceived decisions like this that continually come back and bite this game. What are they thinking? Is the end game to get rid of subscriptions and go totally Station Cash?

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:19 PM   #56
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We can express our outrage as much as we want. It is obvious that Smokejumper couldn't care less what the people who actually play this game think.

I have read many posts blaming Domino for this. Until I hear otherwise, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. She was the one person who LISTENED to crafters, and implemented great things on their behalf. But, if she was somehow involved in this decision, then I am beyond disgusted. Of course, since there hasn't been a red response, we have no way of knowing.

But yes, there are a LOT of things on Smokejumper's precious SC store that should be player made. Furniture, appearance armor, weapons, jewelry, etc. I don't mind putting mounts on the SC store, or plushies and whatnot. But the things I listed should be player made.

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Old 12-22-2011, 01:21 PM   #57
Karrane1

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I have to agree with all the posters here 8(.. this is the worst thing I have seen you guys do in a long time.

I also buy the occ thing from SC but it ends here 8(.. 

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Old 12-23-2011, 12:25 PM   #58
Jaremai

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Although history with the current management of SOE has certainly shown this to be a completely wasted effort, I'm going to toss my agreement in that 50 SC for a block or 250 SC for one copy of a bunch of blocks is sinful.

Some ambitious building projects could easily take 500 of these blocks.. so you expect them to shell out 25k SC?  $250 actual dollars (or $125 or $83 or $62.50 depending on the weekend and SC method of purchase) just to build something fluffy and pretty in your game.  And that's just 1 project.

If you're going to stick it to us, make the blocks 1 SC, not 50 SC.  I don't mind paying $5.  Hell, I'd pay the $5 even if they were available free to carpenters too because making 500 items takes a bloody long time.  But $250?  Yeh right.

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Old 12-24-2011, 06:37 AM   #59
Valdaglerion

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It would be really nice if you, SOE, would consider allowing us multiple paths to the same destination. I do not mind one bit putting these things on the marketplace to be sold for SC. It gives people with more cash and less time to participate at levels they are willing to pay for. 

It would be great though if the same options appeared for players with more time than cash to give them a way to earn or create the same items in-game.

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Old 12-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #60
Aklira

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Most of the stuff in the SC is a huge slap in the face to the crafters. Tailors cannot compete with the appearance clothing, leather and cloth appearance armor sets.. and the stuff gotten from quests has been revamped to be better than player mastercrafted leaving tailors as container makers. The same is true for armor and weaponsmiths... players seem to have no use for our services anymore even though I personally can only see one set of armor I would be willing to buy from the sc store. As for carpies... well they've been dealt the biggest slap in the face. Now players can build their own houses (if they can and are willing to shell out the huge amount of cash to do so) and the furniture sets available in the sc store look better than most of what we can craft especially the lower level ones leaving us as fireplace makers... except that places like New Halas already have fireplaces crafted in... they just aren't usable for atmosphere like ours are. As for the researcher recipes... JEWELRY? REALLY? I'm a carpenter... all that does is put me in competition with my jeweller. Please redo the researcher recipes to include some carpenter items...I know coding hard work but surely it can't be that hard to add a few lines of coding to allow me to work in my chosen specialty...Big, big slap in the face SOE... please fix this.

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