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Old 12-27-2011, 12:44 PM   #31
CoLD MeTaL

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[email protected] wrote:

SF will gear you out.  Your mentaliy is the improper one.  What happened to working your way through prior content to be able to beat newer content?

People in even a single piece of treasured shouldn't be allowed in DF DoV zones, ever.

I didn't say treasured, you said you were in HM gear and a person should be in 90 legendary AND I would point out that most groups will boot you if you are in SF EM raid gear even.  SF legendary is abyssmal low on stats due to the gear revamp (nerf).

But I will re-iterate that your mentality is why DF will always be fail.  There is nothing $OE can do to it to change that.

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Old 12-27-2011, 01:55 PM   #32
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People in even a single piece of treasured shouldn't be allowed in DF DoV zones, ever.

But I will re-iterate that your mentality is why DF will always be fail.  There is nothing $OE can do to it to change that.

Are you actually disagreeing with that?

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Old 12-27-2011, 02:16 PM   #33
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This morning, after about 2 hours of waiting in the DF queue, I finally got a group for The Ascent, I quickly clicked yes!

Sadly it was a group of just me (90 Conj) and a 90 assassin that declined the group.

Wow really? 2 people and the Dungeon Finder said the group was ready. Bravo DF, bravo.

Needless to say I solo'd most the zone and finished the task and got the key for the shard chest =)

This experience, one reason I never use the dungeon finder. I still give it a try from time to time, and this is pretty much what always happens.

Not to mention I LOL at the estimated waiting times. For almost all zones it was between 1-10 minutes. Yet I had to wait over TWO HOURS for the first invite to come along.

I like how the Battleground estimated wait time for me is stuck on 16 seconds for all the BG's, yet you can sit in queue for over 5+ hours without getting a BG invite. 

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Old 12-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #34
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I use DF on the weekends, Mohee, for my mid level un guilded Mystic.  I usually run with 3-5 groups per day.  Some groups work, some fail..mostly due (in my experience) to the lack of Tanks.

That said, weekdays?  Hard to get DF to put a group together.

Yeah..I have a big guild.  Love those guys..but sometimes (after all these years)...just need some time to run with anyone else.

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Old 12-27-2011, 03:40 PM   #35
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Mohee wrote:

This morning, after about 2 hours of waiting in the DF queue, I finally got a group for The Ascent, I quickly clicked yes!

Sadly it was a group of just me (90 Conj) and a 90 assassin that declined the group.

Wow really? 2 people and the Dungeon Finder said the group was ready. Bravo DF, bravo.

Needless to say I solo'd most the zone and finished the task and got the key for the shard chest =)

This experience, one reason I never use the dungeon finder. I still give it a try from time to time, and this is pretty much what always happens.

Not to mention I LOL at the estimated waiting times. For almost all zones it was between 1-10 minutes. Yet I had to wait over TWO HOURS for the first invite to come along.

I like how the Battleground estimated wait time for me is stuck on 16 seconds for all the BG's, yet you can sit in queue for over 5+ hours without getting a BG invite. 

What happend Mohee is that the DF took so long the other 4 people were AFK and just never clicked yes. This is because DF puts the prompt up and zones people if enough people are queued opposed to waiting until all 6 people hit yes to zone them in. the assassin prolly declined because he forgot he queued up and started doing something else entirely.

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The problem isn't Dungeon Finder, the problem is the game.

6 people who want ' to explore and adventure' can't do these zones.  You need to be a min/maxer with ACT running and know your parse and until recently (ie when it no longer mattered) there was the crit mit check and then follow the scripts like mini raids.  Cross Server isn't going to change a flippin thing.

That is why people do not run zones unless it is with guildees.  Because they want their token out of the hamster lever in 10 minutes.

What are you talking about? When I did manage to get full DF groups that were successful nothing like this happened. No one was running ACT and the scripts were minor at best. Unless you expect to successfully run EVERY group dungeon with poor gear and a lazy mentality, which is just silly. the main problems we ran into were some of them were simply not geared enough for dungeons they were queueing up for. It's a gear based game, if you expect to run most of the content without continuously upgrading your gear, again, that is just silly.

A gear check will not require you run the zones to have the gear to run the easier zones. FYI some of the dungeons are easier than others so therefore they would have a lower gear requirement. Don't act like a gear check for DF is something new either, it's a time tested working method for this type of feature. They do it based on stats and not tier of equipment (legendary, fabled, etc.) and rightly so. they required crit mit check for the harder zones which was a good idea. Now they need to do a check based on some other common stat for the others. As I suggested earlier it should check the main stat for this. Something on the dungeon saying "You will need X of your main statistic to queue for this dungeon"

The mistake SoE made was if they are going to use a feature from other MMO's they should also learn from their growing pains and copy the feature IN FULL. If they did this we would have a game wide DF with a proper gear check that rewards people with exp bonus and extra loot for choosing 'random' and successfully finishing the dungeon. This would have been a huge success from day one. Now the EQ2 DF will have a stigma attateched to it that will take a lot of time to shake off even if they do fix it 100%.

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Old 12-27-2011, 04:37 PM   #36
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[email protected] wrote:

I'm in full raid gear, mainly HM Lutherin.  There's a 0% chance it's me.  I think you're just in here lying to seem credible.  Anyone that posts in these forums can come in here and divulge their stories with how pathetically designed DF is and how nearly every group the joined is filled with mental invalids.

There should just be a flatout gear check.  Not in full level 90 legendary?  Not allowed to queue up for DoV instances.

I just ran 3 DF DoV instances back to back, 2 of which didn't have a full group until midway, and they all worked out great.

So the problem seems to be related to you or your server. And btw, having good gear doesn't mean that you can actually play. Far from it. Especially those that use their gear as an argument are usually not the best players.

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Old 12-27-2011, 05:04 PM   #37
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Luterin wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I'm in full raid gear, mainly HM Lutherin.  There's a 0% chance it's me.  I think you're just in here lying to seem credible.  Anyone that posts in these forums can come in here and divulge their stories with how pathetically designed DF is and how nearly every group the joined is filled with mental invalids.

There should just be a flatout gear check.  Not in full level 90 legendary?  Not allowed to queue up for DoV instances.

I just ran 3 DF DoV instances back to back, 2 of which didn't have a full group until midway, and they all worked out great.

So the problem seems to be related to you or your server. And btw, having good gear doesn't mean that you can actually play. Far from it. Especially those that use their gear as an argument are usually not the best players.

I find it much more fun to try and do a dungeon that you are in fact under geared for - but most of the time it seems like people just want to steam roll through the dungeons real quick.

I would really hate the idea of  some 'gear score' system coming to EQ2 - it blasts the whole game to the point of just a pointless numbers game of raiding for gear so you can get gear to raid for more gear.

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Old 12-27-2011, 05:32 PM   #38
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Raknid wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People in even a single piece of treasured shouldn't be allowed in DF DoV zones, ever.

But I will re-iterate that your mentality is why DF will always be fail.  There is nothing $OE can do to it to change that.

Are you actually disagreeing with that?

I've seen treasured pieces that were better than legendary, so that one line doesn't cover it.

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Old 12-27-2011, 05:56 PM   #39
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Honestly I think Dungeon Finder should have been tied into Looking for Player side of the LFG tool, and empty slots filled with automatic mercs until someone que's in sought role, on it's own non-lockout version of the current zones.

Sounds complicated, but It's really not.

Basically it would play out like this; A group of 3 friends want to run a zone, but they're lacking in some way to actually run it. They enter the zone and throw up the LFP window and select the roles they need. One gets filled because someone was cued for that zone, the other two spots pull merc NPC's so they can go ahead and start the zone. As they are completing the zone the merc's are replaced by 2 players that have qued for that zone.

Having no timer on the zones would keep people from feeling shafted from coming in late and not being able to play the whole zone. Filling the empty slots with system mercs (as oppossed to player mercs) would allow those that want to start the group to have instant action, waiting kills any system.

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:13 PM   #40
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I would really hate the idea of  some 'gear score' system coming to EQ2 - it blasts the whole game to the point of just a pointless numbers game of raiding for gear so you can get gear to raid for more gear.

there already is gear score its just not put into a number called 'gear score'. With the velious gear look at two pieces for the same slot. If one has more stamina (and main stat, their both the same usually) the one with more stamina is better than the other, more often than not. there are exceptions of course, usually because some stat is close to capped or severe diminishing returns, so if the 'better' item has that stat it doesn't look as good. But I gaurantee the gear score they were planning on then hid would show the item with higher base stats would have a higher score as well.

This IS a gear based game. Just because you have managed to get by with little to no concern about gear doesn't change that.

As for the objections to gear checks for DF there is a very easy and currently available solution: don't use it. If you don't like that line I hope you were never one of the people that said or supported the tired line of 'then don't buy it' when it came to AoD objections, since you would then be a hypocrite.

Gear checks shouldn't be based on tier of equipment though, should be more like a 'stat check', much like Rift.

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:26 PM   #41
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Half the fun of DF "is" the dice roll.  Can you do this with the team or partial team you've zoned in with?  Everyone doesn't have to be uber geared, nor do you have a fully functional and balanced group. The challenge is to do it.

DF won't replace a good guild.  But it might add some spice and challenge to your gameplay..if you let it.

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Old 12-27-2011, 06:59 PM   #42
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I'm in full raid gear, mainly HM Lutherin.  There's a 0% chance it's me.  I think you're just in here lying to seem credible.  Anyone that posts in these forums can come in here and divulge their stories with how pathetically designed DF is and how nearly every group the joined is filled with mental invalids.

There should just be a flatout gear check.  Not in full level 90 legendary?  Not allowed to queue up for DoV instances.

So . . . . I need the gear from the zones to run the zones.  Or perhaps you are saying i need the raid gear from above the zones to run the zones.

This post (ie this player mentality) is exactly what is wrong with DF.

You get a full set of legendary quest rewards from doing the DoV quests and you can do the PQ's for armor slots before going lfg at 90, this would be fair to everyone.

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Old 12-27-2011, 07:00 PM   #43
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Quick question - are the incentives actual quests for queueing up for any random dungeons or just extra loot/XP?  Wanted to ask if anyone got a quest related to doing a random DF.  Thanks.

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Old 12-27-2011, 07:01 PM   #44
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Crismorn wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I'm in full raid gear, mainly HM Lutherin.  There's a 0% chance it's me.  I think you're just in here lying to seem credible.  Anyone that posts in these forums can come in here and divulge their stories with how pathetically designed DF is and how nearly every group the joined is filled with mental invalids.

There should just be a flatout gear check.  Not in full level 90 legendary?  Not allowed to queue up for DoV instances.

So . . . . I need the gear from the zones to run the zones.  Or perhaps you are saying i need the raid gear from above the zones to run the zones.

This post (ie this player mentality) is exactly what is wrong with DF.

You get a full set of legendary quest rewards from doing the DoV quests and you can do the PQ's for armor slots before going lfg at 90, this would be fair to everyone.

I would bet 10p that neither you nor [email protected] would take someone in PQ/othmir quested gear.

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Old 12-27-2011, 07:12 PM   #45
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I would play or take anyone who at least tries to meet the pre-reqs, because it shows they at least care enough about their toon to do so which in turn means they care about succeeding and they at least try to help to their potential in the task ahead of us.

The people who queue up DoV dungeons in treasured gear without even venturing into DoV do not care about their toon enough to do that content, they do not care or acknowledge that the other 5 people in their group did meet those pre-reqs and their actions are telling the group that they simply don't care.

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Old 12-28-2011, 02:35 AM   #46
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Raffir wrote:

Half the fun of DF "is" the dice roll.  Can you do this with the team or partial team you've zoned in with?  Everyone doesn't have to be uber geared, nor do you have a fully functional and balanced group. The challenge is to do it.

DF won't replace a good guild.  But it might add some spice and challenge to your gameplay..if you let it.

Raf

This attitude is what we hope to bolster with the current random item incentive you get each day. This kind of "see if you can overcome the challenges with what's at hand" attitude is what DF is kind of all about. The incentives are reward for those that want to face that kind of game.

However, it's become obvious that although that works for 1-89, and even in SF, it doesn't work in Velious because of the difficulty of those dungeons. We're discussing potential fixes after the new year. Expect a staged solution so that DF becomes more what you're looking for.

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Old 12-28-2011, 04:48 AM   #47
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Raffir wrote:

Half the fun of DF "is" the dice roll.  Can you do this with the team or partial team you've zoned in with?  Everyone doesn't have to be uber geared, nor do you have a fully functional and balanced group. The challenge is to do it.

DF won't replace a good guild.  But it might add some spice and challenge to your gameplay..if you let it.

Raf

This attitude is what we hope to bolster with the current random item incentive you get each day. This kind of "see if you can overcome the challenges with what's at hand" attitude is what DF is kind of all about. The incentives are reward for those that want to face that kind of game.

However, it's become obvious that although that works for 1-89, and even in SF, it doesn't work in Velious because of the difficulty of those dungeons. We're discussing potential fixes after the new year. Expect a staged solution so that DF becomes more what you're looking for.

I am all for that honestly but.....

there is a HUGE difference between an atypical, sub-optimal group or one where members can't even take a hit. There is a difference between playing the hand you got, using your strengths or having to stack healers and use no more than auto attack so the tank can actually function as a tank.

If a Velious dungeon can't be ran in velious treasured/quested or less it REALLY needs to have a gear check in regards to the DF.

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Old 12-28-2011, 06:08 AM   #48
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Crismorn wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I'm in full raid gear, mainly HM Lutherin.  There's a 0% chance it's me.  I think you're just in here lying to seem credible.  Anyone that posts in these forums can come in here and divulge their stories with how pathetically designed DF is and how nearly every group the joined is filled with mental invalids.

There should just be a flatout gear check.  Not in full level 90 legendary?  Not allowed to queue up for DoV instances.

So . . . . I need the gear from the zones to run the zones.  Or perhaps you are saying i need the raid gear from above the zones to run the zones.

This post (ie this player mentality) is exactly what is wrong with DF.

You get a full set of legendary quest rewards from doing the DoV quests and you can do the PQ's for armor slots before going lfg at 90, this would be fair to everyone.

in that gear you quickly get booted from an Ascent group because you can't do 100k dps.   I know that gear is good enough but too many people demand 10 minute zone clears,  ie eazymode.

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Old 12-28-2011, 06:12 AM   #49
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Raffir wrote:

Half the fun of DF "is" the dice roll.  Can you do this with the team or partial team you've zoned in with?  Everyone doesn't have to be uber geared, nor do you have a fully functional and balanced group. The challenge is to do it.

DF won't replace a good guild.  But it might add some spice and challenge to your gameplay..if you let it.

Raf

This attitude is what we hope to bolster with the current random item incentive you get each day. This kind of "see if you can overcome the challenges with what's at hand" attitude is what DF is kind of all about. The incentives are reward for those that want to face that kind of game.

However, it's become obvious that although that works for 1-89, and even in SF, it doesn't work in Velious because of the difficulty of those dungeons. We're discussing potential fixes after the new year. Expect a staged solution so that DF becomes more what you're looking for.

thats a nice idea, but since you let raiders sell raid loot they now expect EVERYONE to wear it even for the simple dungeons.

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Old 12-28-2011, 08:17 AM   #50
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Thats precisely it. Now that SLR has become commonplace, if you don't have the gear you can't do the zones as the group will kick you out without the right gear. Now you have to buy your way in. It's a ludicrous situation.

You only have to see the clamouring for the gear in channels to see people out there are desperate for it and are willing to pay an insane amount of plat for gear. Several thousand plat in most cases.

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Old 12-28-2011, 08:34 AM   #51
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SmokeJumper wrote:

We'll be working on it after the new year.

But in the meantime, the new incentives are pretty sweet. You might consider trying it once a day just for the daily reward...

The incentives can never make up for the poor group forming unfortunately and where EQ2 DR fails is often witht he scripts and DPS checks put in for optimal grouping. I hate to say it, but as long as you keep throwing sub-optimal groups at dungeons your very own traps are going to make people hate SF and stop running it.

When you do get to working on it please do the following:

Cross server. This is a given and must happen.

You must allow people to choose a role. Tank, healer, DPS, Support. There were too many people in DPS gear who ended up being the tank by default in places they were being one shot.

For those dungeons like Rime Spires where you need to have a certain group make up (healer and a rezzer in this case) please make sure you don't send in a group that just can't get past the scripts.

Please group like people together, at worst one either way. Improve the "gearscore" so that you don't end up with a group who is unlikely to pass any DPS checks you have scripted.

Fix looting so that people can't need on anything that is not in their class and so the need option is greyed out on collections and quest items.

Make sure that /ignore will never group you with that person.

Make everyone click accept before zoning in. If you don't get a full group then please leave them outside. Nothing worse than zoning in and seeing 1/2 the group declined.

Stop SLR. It must be killed off, and fast.

There are more, just can't recall them all right now.

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Old 12-28-2011, 09:45 AM   #52
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Elomort wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

We'll be working on it after the new year.

But in the meantime, the new incentives are pretty sweet. You might consider trying it once a day just for the daily reward...

The incentives can never make up for the poor group forming unfortunately and where EQ2 DR fails is often witht he scripts and DPS checks put in for optimal grouping. I hate to say it, but as long as you keep throwing sub-optimal groups at dungeons your very own traps are going to make people hate SF and stop running it.

When you do get to working on it please do the following:

Cross server. This is a given and must happen.

You must allow people to choose a role. Tank, healer, DPS, Support. There were too many people in DPS gear who ended up being the tank by default in places they were being one shot.

For those dungeons like Rime Spires where you need to have a certain group make up (healer and a rezzer in this case) please make sure you don't send in a group that just can't get past the scripts.

Please group like people together, at worst one either way. Improve the "gearscore" so that you don't end up with a group who is unlikely to pass any DPS checks you have scripted.

Fix looting so that people can't need on anything that is not in their class and so the need option is greyed out on collections and quest items.

Make sure that /ignore will never group you with that person.

Make everyone click accept before zoning in. If you don't get a full group then please leave them outside. Nothing worse than zoning in and seeing 1/2 the group declined.

Stop SLR. It must be killed off, and fast.

There are more, just can't recall them all right now.

there is only one way of stopping SLR...

As long as raid gear is better for doing heroic instances than heroic gear people will want it.

If they want it someone will find some way of selling it.

Make raid gear only better than heroic gear for doing raid instances.

Make it the same or worse than heroic gear for doing heroic instances and SLR will stop over night.

... and befor you start talking about Drunder gear or EoW gear, just think; isnt it the people in raid gear that are happily SLR for that too, because it is so much easier for them to get it in raid gear?

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Old 12-28-2011, 10:01 AM   #53
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[email protected] wrote:

SF will gear you out.  Your mentaliy is the improper one.  What happened to working your way through prior content to be able to beat newer content?

People in even a single piece of treasured shouldn't be allowed in DF DoV zones, ever.

This doesn't even go far enough imo, you could do all of the solo quest lines in DoV and get all legendary que for DF and be thrown into ToRZ as the main tank.  That is clearly broken.

Much of the problem in DF is that the zones where not designed with DF in mind (as DF was created after) and thus the devs are struggling to incoprate them in a way that works.

There are really only 2 ways of fixing DF

1) We add the gear score to ensure that groups have players that are capable of being in the zone without being a drain on the group and ensuring that the group makeup is set to allow the zone to be completed (I have no problem with odd group makeups but some zones required certain makeups ie ToT needs 2 tanks.

2) Players progress is tracked through DoV Heroic instances, they start at ToFS: SC and may not progress to the ToFS: Umbral Halls untill SC is successfuly completed and so on and so forth untill all zones are unlocked.  Or rather than by zone it could be done by Tier.

There are other fixes that are needed but until these fundmental issuses are addressed the rest are pointless.

Raffir wrote:

Half the fun of DF "is" the dice roll.  Can you do this with the team or partial team you've zoned in with?  Everyone doesn't have to be uber geared, nor do you have a fully functional and balanced group. The challenge is to do it.

DF won't replace a good guild.  But it might add some spice and challenge to your gameplay..if you let it.

Raf

Some of this is true but zoning into ToRZ with 1 healer in resonable gear and a tank in PQ gear (solo jewlery, weapons and bp) is not going to cut it in this zone, it is not doable.  Trust me, i was there and its not fun. We managed to kill the first named with combat rezzing and some creative ping ponging of the mob agro.  The tank was so undergeared he could not hold agro from a 15k dps for even 5 seconds, durring the second named we wiped repetedly becasue of this.  The tank himself was not an awful player, he was ok but it was his gear that let him down (along with a lack of AA's and masters is my guess).

DoV is a highly gear based expansion, you simply can not progress without the gear, orgininaly  the zones were designed to require you to gear up from the previous zones to complete the next zone/teir and the balance was so tight it was still a challenge even then.  Remember trying to get past Fortress Spire when all you group had was PQ/Acent/Pools etc gear? thats right it was tough but it was possible.

Challenge is fine but no chance of success is not, there should be one and not the other or its simply not fun.  

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Old 12-28-2011, 10:38 AM   #54
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millie wrote:

Elomort wrote:

SmokeJumper wrote:

We'll be working on it after the new year.

But in the meantime, the new incentives are pretty sweet. You might consider trying it once a day just for the daily reward...

The incentives can never make up for the poor group forming unfortunately and where EQ2 DR fails is often witht he scripts and DPS checks put in for optimal grouping. I hate to say it, but as long as you keep throwing sub-optimal groups at dungeons your very own traps are going to make people hate SF and stop running it.

When you do get to working on it please do the following:

Cross server. This is a given and must happen.

You must allow people to choose a role. Tank, healer, DPS, Support. There were too many people in DPS gear who ended up being the tank by default in places they were being one shot.

For those dungeons like Rime Spires where you need to have a certain group make up (healer and a rezzer in this case) please make sure you don't send in a group that just can't get past the scripts.

Please group like people together, at worst one either way. Improve the "gearscore" so that you don't end up with a group who is unlikely to pass any DPS checks you have scripted.

Fix looting so that people can't need on anything that is not in their class and so the need option is greyed out on collections and quest items.

Make sure that /ignore will never group you with that person.

Make everyone click accept before zoning in. If you don't get a full group then please leave them outside. Nothing worse than zoning in and seeing 1/2 the group declined.

Stop SLR. It must be killed off, and fast.

There are more, just can't recall them all right now.

there is only one way of stopping SLR...

As long as raid gear is better for doing heroic instances than heroic gear people will want it.

If they want it someone will find some way of selling it.

Make raid gear only better than heroic gear for doing raid instances.

Make it the same or worse than heroic gear for doing heroic instances and SLR will stop over night.

... and befor you start talking about Drunder gear or EoW gear, just think; isnt it the people in raid gear that are happily SLR for that too, because it is so much easier for them to get it in raid gear?

Not that anyone cares about PvP, but those guys/gals already must have two sets of gear if they want to PvP and raid, now you are saying they are going to required to have 3 if they also want to do group instances? Let alone that, anyone on PvE who raids is going to be required to have 2 sets now if they want to do group content also?

If they do that they need to go one step further and make "group" level gear ineffective against "solo" level content. That way it is fair for everyone and you must have a set of gear for each level of content solo/group/raid...and PvP for the for PvP folks.

Yeah, that sure sounds like a plan.

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Old 12-28-2011, 10:52 AM   #55
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[email protected] wrote:

thats a nice idea, but since you let raiders sell raid loot they now expect EVERYONE to wear it even for the simple dungeons.

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Thats precisely it. Now that SLR has become commonplace, if you don't have the gear you can't do the zones as the group will kick you out without the right gear. Now you have to buy your way in. It's a ludicrous situation.

You only have to see the clamouring for the gear in channels to see people out there are desperate for it and are willing to pay an insane amount of plat for gear. Several thousand plat in most cases.

Maybe spend less time wasting other peoples time doing dungeons, and spend a bit more time farming plat so you can get some decent gear and not slow the rest of us down in dunegons?

It's trivial to make 3-4k plat a week easy, there is no excuse for people at level 90 doing dungeons to be in at least full x2/easy mode gear these days.

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Old 12-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #56
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the main reason ppl quit out is because the elitists only run it to check for rares then bail......put the rares at the END of the dungeon....problem solved BTW I agree SLR IS getting out of control
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:14 AM   #57
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I'd run with people in PQ gear, Cold, assuming it's ToFS.  If the DF puts me in anything besides ToFS, no I wouldn't accept that (especially given Thurg armor is just as easy to obtain without ANY effort.)

As for me being the problem, Lutherin, hop on over to Butcherblock.  I'll gladly outplay you, so you can retire your absurd argument.  Neiloch is on the same server in one of the top 3 guilds worldwide and is saying the same things I am.

It seems to me that you're simply in here lying.  You used DF to run Wailing Caves, well grats.  Use DoV to run Hall of Storms with your brigand, brigand, monk, fury, necromancer, conjuror group in full awesome PQ and treasured pre-90 gear.  Let me know how that goes.

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Old 12-28-2011, 11:20 AM   #58
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OP:  Yes, DF sucks.  It was destined to fail from the beginning due to being rushed out before it was ready.  It's going to have a ridiculous uphill battle now to gain acceptance because it's reputation has been slammed due to the rushed nature of it's release and subsequent failure.

What this thread should make everyone realize is that:

1.  EQ2 needs "Gear Score" or some iteration of it for use in DF.  So much of the discussion in this thread drills in on equipment and the lack of this feature becomes more acute when taken in context with the many levels of itemization across EQ2.  The fact that this feature (Gear Score) was IN DOV BETA AND DROPPED makes it all the more frustrating.

2.  DF needs to be a great deal smarter.  Sub optimal groups for low level content are probably ok, but when you get Paladin, Wizard, Wizard, Defiler, Defiler, Templar for ToRZ, something is WRONG.

3.  DF absolutely MUST be cross server.  I've been saying this since DF was announced.  The EQ2 population absolutely is not large enough for DF to reach critical mass any other way.  Unfortunately, with the reputation DF now has, making it cross server now may not work.  Maybe it will.

Dear Smokejumper,

You keep telling us that you are going to go back and fix things, yet actions speak louder than words and all we have from you so far is words. In one interview you say "we're going to go back and fix things" and in the next "we're excited about this new feature we're working on."  It's ridiculous.

There are so many poorly tuned, broken and worthless features in game currently that you could spend a whole year fixing them and still have a huge list of important things in front of you that need attention.  And yet, for some reason, we keep getting more features!

How bout you guys take up a New Years resolution this year to release no new features until you get the things you have working properly?  That'd be great.

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Old 12-28-2011, 11:24 AM   #59
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Khurghan wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

thats a nice idea, but since you let raiders sell raid loot they now expect EVERYONE to wear it even for the simple dungeons.

Guy De Alsace wrote:

Thats precisely it. Now that SLR has become commonplace, if you don't have the gear you can't do the zones as the group will kick you out without the right gear. Now you have to buy your way in. It's a ludicrous situation.

You only have to see the clamouring for the gear in channels to see people out there are desperate for it and are willing to pay an insane amount of plat for gear. Several thousand plat in most cases.

Maybe spend less time wasting other peoples time doing dungeons, and spend a bit more time farming plat so you can get some decent gear and not slow the rest of us down in dunegons?

It's trivial to make 3-4k plat a week easy, there is no excuse for people at level 90 doing dungeons to be in at least full x2/easy mode gear these days.

I'd call you a troll but sadly there are actually people that think like this.

Thats a helpful attitude, buy your gear so you can run zones for gear that doesn't upgrade your gear for no challenge or progression? Here's an idea lets just not bother with the heroic game and just buy loot from players who raid and not bother playing at all, sounds fun doesn't it?

SLR is shameful, it goes aganist the spirit of the game and its lame.  Its cheating, if you buy loot rights you are cheating. If people want to do it whatever, i won't and never have bought or sold loot rights. Oh and just to be clear, I raid I didn't ride some other guild coat tails or guild hop.  I helped build a raid force with similarly geared people and we never sell loot rights as we use the loot to progress our guild members and their alts (alts are useful if your caught short of a class or 2)

There is no reason to buy loot to run zones that your over geared for, if you have raid gear you don't need shards or loot from them.  How about you stop running heroic zones that you need nothing from and quit wasting your time.

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Old 12-28-2011, 11:45 AM   #60
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I have yet to be in a full group in DF.

That said, when I queue up for DF, I expect I will be the most geared person in the group and that I'll end up tanking the zone on my mystic, topping the parse, and working harder to keep everyone else alive than I would otherwise.

However, the biggest flaw with DF is the people who queue. I don't mind running DF for dungeons like Pools, Ascent, Spire, etc.

BUT if you queue up for Zek or Thrones or Drunder and you're wearing a full set of othmir gear or PQ, you should expect to fail and YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

People WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER and do the above are simply discourteous to those others in their group, who feel they should be entitled to be able to do things that they shouldn't be doing, and fully expect that 5 other people are going to carry their fail through the zone.

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