Dirge Prestige Abilities

Shotneedle · 10-28-2012, 09:42 AM

Troub version of the ae needs to be nerfed or dirge version needs to be put back the way it was with cb instead of dps. If it goes in as is I'll probably be looking for a troub for my dps group in raids instead of a dirge.

ZUES · 10-28-2012, 11:37 AM

[email protected]Antonia Bayle wrote:

Dirge's Echoing Power: 180 group dps mod.
Troub's Uplifting Uproar: 72 group potency.
Balanced?

You're kidding right? A dimished return stat versus potency? Please....

In case you forgot, DPS does not convert to flurry or anything really useful.

Over soft-cap conversion for DPS

200: 125%
300: 135%
500: 145%
700: 155%
900: 165%
1200: 175%

Gash · 10-28-2012, 06:12 PM

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Dirge's Echoing Power: 180 group dps mod.
Troub's Uplifting Uproar: 72 group potency.
Balanced?

This!

72 Potency is a LOT more powerful than 180 dps mod.

Crit Bonus would be more appropriate, maybe 50-60

Shotneedle · 10-29-2012, 12:03 PM

Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72.

Gash · 10-29-2012, 08:11 PM

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72.

This sounds reasonable.

In any case, it is a HUGE imbalance between Troubs & Dirges the way it currently is.

Aotulan · 10-29-2012, 11:14 PM

HUGE IMblance. come on SOE, if you not gonna fix this at least explain

Gugr · 10-30-2012, 02:45 AM

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72.

72 is ok, a bard needs to be in melee range all the time to use his aoe, and it is not usually possible on hard mobs

nofish · 10-30-2012, 04:21 PM

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Troub version of the ae needs to be nerfed or dirge version needs to be put back the way it was with cb instead of dps. If it goes in as is I'll probably be looking for a troub for my dps group in raids instead of a dirge.

Just becuse you say so they should nerf the only ok thing with troubs prestige's?

Maby they should fix dirge's prestige in to something better then dps but dont nerf troubs,

Gargamel · 10-31-2012, 04:03 PM

As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally, and thx for the nerf calls -- I see the 6 per rank is now 1 as of today's notes. So is that a nerf from MAX of 72 to MAX of 12? How easy would it have been to maintain MAX for a long period of time anyway before?

Gugr · 10-31-2012, 11:24 PM

Gargamel wrote:

As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally

Do your group members prefer that too? SMILEY It's done for the group, not for you personally

Gugr · 11-01-2012, 02:28 AM

For both bards

Grave Echo lowers the base reuse of VC to 240 seconds and RO to 120 seconds, but bards usually record VC while Cadence of Destruction is up. Cadence and Overture now have different reuse timers, and this breaks usual cast order for VC recording. It would be nice to lower base reuse timer for Cadence in addition to VC and RO to keep our VC recording mechanics the same

Xenxex · 11-01-2012, 02:29 PM

They could have left Grave echo like it was initially with the dmg bonus to howl/reson. I would rather have them remove the immunity on Gravitas and reduce the cast time of Howl back down to .5sec instead of its current 1sec. Aside from that i dont mind anything else. The left side is pretty decent not as well as the right side. Full left is good for support and full right is good for group dps. If you wanted to only care about yourself you could take both conversions but then you'd not be doing your job as best you could.

KenCoop · 11-01-2012, 02:37 PM

Gugr wrote:

Gargamel wrote:
As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally
Do your group members prefer that too? It's done for the group, not for you personally

Really, would anyone rather have potency over CB? Unless you have a pot->CB conversion (or are a tank in reckless trying to mod your base potency) I don't see this one. Both of them modify damage, but CB modifies CAs+auto, whereas potency just modifies CAs.

Appak · 11-01-2012, 03:48 PM

Ok first of all:

Previously this was 2% per Rank per increment. At Rank 3, this is 6%/Increment. Max 12 Increments = 72%

The change only cut this down to 1% per Rank per increment. 3 points = 3%/increment. Its still max 12 Increments = 36% Potency.

It was cut in half, not down to 12% (unless you only put 1 point into it!) and honestly 36% Potency is still decent.

Yes, personally as a Troub, I would much prefer to have CB. However my group - being mages - prefer Potency which makes it perfectly reasonable to have Troubs with potency and dirges with CB.

Xenxex · 11-02-2012, 02:20 AM

So did a few raids tonight on beta w/ full right side and i feel that howl needs its cast time reduced as stated previously. Even if knocked down to .75 its still better than 1sec.

Howl Cast time too long, disrupts general flow of combat its like .26 slower than our fastest casting encounter AE and this is something that we have to generally press asap upon reuse up.(why is it almost double darksong spin cast time anyways?)
Echoing power duration increase is nice but it needs another 2-3 to compensate for the off chance a dirge has to res(crazy i know)
Bring back Grave echo prior to change or up resonation dmg 20%
Eulogy is still terrible and possibility of anyone choosing right side to give it a thought is -zero-. Honestly anyone using left will likely ignore it too. Maybe make it base weap/spell weap mod or a hefty chunk of Abil mod.
Double Echo should be 100% 200% 250% instead of 50/100/150

Xenxex · 11-10-2012, 09:56 AM

Gugr wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:
They could have left Grave echo like it was initially with the dmg bonus to howl/reson. I would rather have them remove the immunity on Gravitas
Why do you want to remove the immunity on Gravitas? This spell should be revamped entirely. It is no match to Jesters Cap. Maybe they should add some sort of a proc to it, or make ability reuse instead of beneficial only or add potency / cb etc., make it close to JC, make it necessary. Nobody wants it in its current state, healers rarely ask for it, but everybody wants JC.

Meh the chance of a full revamp on the ability at this point is near nil. Should it happen? Yes it should have happen the minute they even considered making jcap have no immunity. However since it didnt happen then i doubt it will happen now. The right side was really good at one point, now its just a shadow of its former self as much as expected.

Rixan - that is a raid proc so everyone in raid has that chance for it to work - and yes its still pretty dismal. Its obviously not a mechanic that was tested enough prior to conception.

The weapon dmg mod on Eulogy is low yes but the basis of how it builds up is a decent mechanic that can be applied to other things such as dmg procs too. The weapon mod should be bumped up as posted before, but that like many other suggestions are just up in the air atm. Right and Left side are really incomplete right now. The right side is pretty lackluster while the left side is extremely situational. Neither side really seems like they merit full attention when you can just pick up dual conversion and darksong spin.

Shotneedle · 11-10-2012, 03:23 PM

Proc rate is fine. It'll take a raid 3-5 minutes to max stacks. That's reasonable.

Xenxex · 11-11-2012, 03:31 PM

Eulogy change is decent i guess. However still see no reason to go anything but dual conversion. Mana regen from left side is still situational at best since it requires your target to take dmg. Right side isnt half as good as it was a week ago. The group dmg util you could provide was cut in half.

10-28-2012, 09:42 AM	#1
Shotneedle Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 695	Troub version of the ae needs to be nerfed or dirge version needs to be put back the way it was with cb instead of dps. If it goes in as is I'll probably be looking for a troub for my dps group in raids instead of a dirge. __________________ Buffratx - 92 Beastlord - AB Buffrat - 92 Troubador - AB Arbitrat - 92 Berserker - AB Guarddog - 92 Warden - AB

10-28-2012, 11:37 AM	#2
ZUES Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 814	[email protected]Antonia Bayle wrote: Dirge's Echoing Power: 180 group dps mod. Troub's Uplifting Uproar: 72 group potency. Balanced? You're kidding right? A dimished return stat versus potency? Please.... In case you forgot, DPS does not convert to flurry or anything really useful. Over soft-cap conversion for DPS 200: 125% 300: 135% 500: 145% 700: 155% 900: 165% 1200: 175%

10-28-2012, 06:12 PM	#3
Gash Server: Kithicor Guild: Empire of the Shadow Rank: Jr Officers Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	[email protected] Bayle wrote: Dirge's Echoing Power: 180 group dps mod. Troub's Uplifting Uproar: 72 group potency. Balanced? This! 72 Potency is a LOT more powerful than 180 dps mod. Crit Bonus would be more appropriate, maybe 50-60

10-29-2012, 12:03 PM	#4
Shotneedle Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 695	Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72. __________________ Buffratx - 92 Beastlord - AB Buffrat - 92 Troubador - AB Arbitrat - 92 Berserker - AB Guarddog - 92 Warden - AB

10-29-2012, 08:11 PM	#5
Gash Server: Kithicor Guild: Empire of the Shadow Rank: Jr Officers Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 28	[email protected] Bayle wrote: Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72. This sounds reasonable. In any case, it is a HUGE imbalance between Troubs & Dirges the way it currently is.

10-29-2012, 11:14 PM	#6
Aotulan Server: Guk Guild: Guardians of Valor Rank: Royal Crusader Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 36	HUGE IMblance. come on SOE, if you not gonna fix this at least explain

10-30-2012, 02:45 AM	#7
Gugr Lord Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 6	[email protected] Bayle wrote: Should be put back to .5 base cast, dps changed to crit bonus, and both nerfed to be 36 cb or pot total instead of 72. 72 is ok, a bard needs to be in melee range all the time to use his aoe, and it is not usually possible on hard mobs __________________ * GUGR * Harla Dar guard MT/RL/GM Angel's guild

10-30-2012, 04:21 PM	#8
nofish Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 51	[email protected] Bayle wrote: Troub version of the ae needs to be nerfed or dirge version needs to be put back the way it was with cb instead of dps. If it goes in as is I'll probably be looking for a troub for my dps group in raids instead of a dirge. Just becuse you say so they should nerf the only ok thing with troubs prestige's? Maby they should fix dirge's prestige in to something better then dps but dont nerf troubs,

10-31-2012, 04:03 PM	#9
Gargamel Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 708	As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally, and thx for the nerf calls -- I see the 6 per rank is now 1 as of today's notes. So is that a nerf from MAX of 72 to MAX of 12? How easy would it have been to maintain MAX for a long period of time anyway before? __________________ Willlow Halfling Troubadour Carpenter Antonia Bayle EQ2 Map -- The most essential eq2 plugin EQ2LLInks -- Which mobs drop what from where Advanced Combat Tracker -- The best combat parser and tracker (NOTE: All of the above are approved and sactioned for use by SoE and do not violate the Terms of Service in any way, so use 'em!) .

10-31-2012, 11:24 PM	#10
Gugr Lord Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 6	Gargamel wrote: As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally Do your group members prefer that too? It's done for the group, not for you personally __________________ * GUGR * Harla Dar guard MT/RL/GM Angel's guild

11-01-2012, 02:28 AM	#11
Gugr Lord Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 6	For both bards Grave Echo lowers the base reuse of VC to 240 seconds and RO to 120 seconds, but bards usually record VC while Cadence of Destruction is up. Cadence and Overture now have different reuse timers, and this breaks usual cast order for VC recording. It would be nice to lower base reuse timer for Cadence in addition to VC and RO to keep our VC recording mechanics the same __________________ * GUGR * Harla Dar guard MT/RL/GM Angel's guild

11-01-2012, 02:29 PM	#12
Xenxex Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Azure Skies Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 177	They could have left Grave echo like it was initially with the dmg bonus to howl/reson. I would rather have them remove the immunity on Gravitas and reduce the cast time of Howl back down to .5sec instead of its current 1sec. Aside from that i dont mind anything else. The left side is pretty decent not as well as the right side. Full left is good for support and full right is good for group dps. If you wanted to only care about yourself you could take both conversions but then you'd not be doing your job as best you could.

11-01-2012, 02:37 PM	#13
KenCoop Loremaster Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 74	Gugr wrote: Gargamel wrote: As a troub I'd much rather have CB than potency personally Do your group members prefer that too? It's done for the group, not for you personally Really, would anyone rather have potency over CB? Unless you have a pot->CB conversion (or are a tank in reckless trying to mod your base potency) I don't see this one. Both of them modify damage, but CB modifies CAs+auto, whereas potency just modifies CAs.

11-01-2012, 03:48 PM	#14
Appak Server: Everfrost Guild: Vindicate Rank: Main Raider Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6	Ok first of all: Previously this was 2% per Rank per increment. At Rank 3, this is 6%/Increment. Max 12 Increments = 72% The change only cut this down to 1% per Rank per increment. 3 points = 3%/increment. Its still max 12 Increments = 36% Potency. It was cut in half, not down to 12% (unless you only put 1 point into it!) and honestly 36% Potency is still decent. Yes, personally as a Troub, I would much prefer to have CB. However my group - being mages - prefer Potency which makes it perfectly reasonable to have Troubs with potency and dirges with CB.

11-02-2012, 02:20 AM	#15
Xenxex Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Azure Skies Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 177	So did a few raids tonight on beta w/ full right side and i feel that howl needs its cast time reduced as stated previously. Even if knocked down to .75 its still better than 1sec. Howl Cast time too long, disrupts general flow of combat its like .26 slower than our fastest casting encounter AE and this is something that we have to generally press asap upon reuse up.(why is it almost double darksong spin cast time anyways?) Echoing power duration increase is nice but it needs another 2-3 to compensate for the off chance a dirge has to res(crazy i know) Bring back Grave echo prior to change or up resonation dmg 20% Eulogy is still terrible and possibility of anyone choosing right side to give it a thought is -zero-. Honestly anyone using left will likely ignore it too. Maybe make it base weap/spell weap mod or a hefty chunk of Abil mod. Double Echo should be 100% 200% 250% instead of 50/100/150

11-10-2012, 09:56 AM	#16
Xenxex Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Azure Skies Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 177	Gugr wrote: [email protected] Bayle wrote: They could have left Grave echo like it was initially with the dmg bonus to howl/reson. I would rather have them remove the immunity on Gravitas Why do you want to remove the immunity on Gravitas? This spell should be revamped entirely. It is no match to Jesters Cap. Maybe they should add some sort of a proc to it, or make ability reuse instead of beneficial only or add potency / cb etc., make it close to JC, make it necessary. Nobody wants it in its current state, healers rarely ask for it, but everybody wants JC. Meh the chance of a full revamp on the ability at this point is near nil. Should it happen? Yes it should have happen the minute they even considered making jcap have no immunity. However since it didnt happen then i doubt it will happen now. The right side was really good at one point, now its just a shadow of its former self as much as expected. Rixan - that is a raid proc so everyone in raid has that chance for it to work - and yes its still pretty dismal. Its obviously not a mechanic that was tested enough prior to conception. The weapon dmg mod on Eulogy is low yes but the basis of how it builds up is a decent mechanic that can be applied to other things such as dmg procs too. The weapon mod should be bumped up as posted before, but that like many other suggestions are just up in the air atm. Right and Left side are really incomplete right now. The right side is pretty lackluster while the left side is extremely situational. Neither side really seems like they merit full attention when you can just pick up dual conversion and darksong spin.

11-10-2012, 03:23 PM	#17
Shotneedle Loremaster Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 695	Proc rate is fine. It'll take a raid 3-5 minutes to max stacks. That's reasonable. __________________ Buffratx - 92 Beastlord - AB Buffrat - 92 Troubador - AB Arbitrat - 92 Berserker - AB Guarddog - 92 Warden - AB

11-11-2012, 03:31 PM	#18
Xenxex Server: Antonia Bayle Guild: Azure Skies Rank: Raider Loremaster Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 177	Eulogy change is decent i guess. However still see no reason to go anything but dual conversion. Mana regen from left side is still situational at best since it requires your target to take dmg. Right side isnt half as good as it was a week ago. The group dmg util you could provide was cut in half.