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Old 12-21-2006, 01:38 PM   #151
HVA

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Amazing - now live ! Not a single responce. Why is there test servers, when they dont listen to to testers anyway ?
 
Wardens deserve a responce. For grouping and raiding wardens, we only need aprox 13 aa points (spores and sotb), the rest is of no use at all. It cant really be true, we dont get anything to use our AA-points on. We really really need some other stuff in our EoF-tree instead. It must possible to make the cure-line i line with mystic, and templar cure-line. They could even make it with a small direct heal and i would be happier. Or make something new. Its really demotivating, that a whole expansion dont bring anything to be happy about.
 
So please Devs. We need an answer:
- Do you understand our problem ?
- Can we expect anything with EoF ?, or do we have to stay tuned for next expansion  ? (if anyone can find the motivation for waiting that long)

Message Edited by HVA on 12-21-2006 12:50 AM

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Old 12-21-2006, 01:46 PM   #152
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oops

Message Edited by HVA on 12-21-2006 12:49 AM

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Old 12-21-2006, 06:25 PM   #153
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Yep, they finally killed my class. Thanks for making my main a taxi and primary provisioner.

This has seriously made me consider on quitting the game. It was the last straw. It wasn't so much that they gave us this nerf, it was compounded with the fact that we had gotten no word as to why OR been given anything in return for the nerf.

I have a lot of thinking to do this weekend.

 

/wtb Utility, PST!

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Old 12-21-2006, 07:05 PM   #154
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yah, this sucks definitely...

Besides, i want my free respec back to the druid tree... lost it when they gave another respec to the EoF AA tree...


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Old 12-21-2006, 07:55 PM   #155
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Yep. This AA line is dead - sad thing for i liked it (a little).I will now respec to CA line and double attack and all that - already collected components for +14str adorns an all that.Sad SOE. Just really sad. This is a 7 page thread and theres another pretty long on on testing feedback - so i really thinkyou should at least have the balls and send a dev in here to explain with what we earned this completly pointless nerf.- Skavon (future maintainer of Spores and EoF taxi)P.S.: And while i am at it - many thanks for the new Iksar swimming animation - with SoW this looks as if i have an epilepticalshock or something. Really cute - maybe you should consider not speeding up the bum movement speed based on runspeedbuffs and/or swimming skill (it acutally looks not too bad in walk mode without speed buffs)
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:51 PM   #156
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Yep. This AA line is dead - sad thing for i liked it (a little).I will now respec to CA line and double attack and all that - already collected components for +14str adorns an all that.
Ya I did that. You'll do less damage then with your Int line and you'll be in AoE range. -cheers-
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:03 PM   #157
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Ahlspiess wrote:
Yep. This AA line is dead - sad thing for i liked it (a little).I will now respec to CA line and double attack and all that - already collected components for +14str adorns an all that.
Ya I did that. You'll do less damage then with your Int line and you'll be in AoE range. -cheers-

Expected no less. In the end: How could we expect to acutally get an AA line that is useful - but hey - why not pounce the mobs with the weapons i got - cost me dkp in the end to get a fabled sword and a fabled mace *shrug*And when i am in the AE i got at least a reason to cast my group heals right SMILEY- Skavon
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Old 12-22-2006, 02:29 AM   #158
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The funny thing youll notice .... the only ways we really increase our healing is through the Kos str/sta line  .... getting the max heal proc and heal crit adds quite a bit to your heal parse .... true the spores also increases healing a little bit ....but for #'s its much lower than the heal proc ....seeing how it wont stack with its self and heal proc is direct heal only ...hence it has potential to heal 1500+ in 10 sec single target versus the 1000 in 10 sec of spores.... plus we allready had the spores ... so you can only count the increase we get from AA's.....  So if your looking for more healing in AA's??? str/sta druid line is the way to go.

 

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Old 12-22-2006, 02:37 AM   #159
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agi line indirectly increases healing =p
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Old 12-22-2006, 03:47 AM   #160
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Well my point sorta was direct increase.....I just thought it kinda funny these come from str&sta versus .... like say wisdom   .... the quicker healing doesnt really add any to the pwr vs output healing.
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Old 12-22-2006, 04:09 AM   #161
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well you didn't say direct; you just said "..increases healing.." /shrug agi line does do that by allowing for more ticks of GR albeit with more castings of it.
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:15 AM   #162
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The only problem I have with the str cure is you can't count on it. Plus 16% proc rate is 8.5 % after the 3 second delay and yes I parsed it to see how often it was going off. (1.6 weapon speed / 3 second delay) X 16% Proc rate = 8.53%
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Old 12-22-2006, 05:21 AM   #163
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that doesn't mean it's always only 8.5% =p that means it's going to be abased off your weapon delay like most other procs in game. Get a longer delay weapon and it'll be a better proc rate. My weapon would get a 12.8% proc rate from it if I had the AA maxed /shrug
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Old 12-22-2006, 12:52 PM   #164
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Weapon delay  just appears to help the proc rate.
 
With a 1.6 weapon you'll  swing 37.5 times in a minute. Each swing you'll have a 8.53% chance of proc'ing so you'll average ~3.2 procs per minute.
 
With a 2.4 weapon it's 25 swings per minute. With 12.8% you'll also proc at ~3.2 times per minute.
 
An 8 second weapon has 7.5 swings with 42.7% for ~3.2 procs.
 
 
If there is a weapon over 4 seconds for us, I wouldn't use it just because of the 75% crit. More then that and we'll do less DPS.
 
Appreciate trying to be optimistic though. I still think all our AA's are crap.
 
 
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Old 12-22-2006, 06:10 PM   #165
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then you need to change your original statement that it's only 8.5% proc rate cuz it isn't (not all the time and saying that is only misleading).. it's 3.2 times per minute on average, unhasted.
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Old 12-22-2006, 08:55 PM   #166
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I just dont understand this....at all.  With the most recent combat changes making mitigation...and most stats in general virtually useless, our cure line was so harmless and did nothing to "unbalance" the currently "unbalanced" nature of the games current system.  I, like all of you, am at a loss for words here.  But lets not kid ourselves, how much of a joke is eq2's AA system to begin with.  Its utter crap.  Absolutely no thought or imagination went into the different classes abilities.  Not to mention it took like no time at all to max them all.  Why they couldnt have made the AA tree something along the lines of EQ1's system boggles the imagination. The Warden, and many other classes, got the high hard one the past few expansions; and due to the lack of response from the developers, they don't seem to really give two [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s about it.Maybe the recent combat changes, combined with the lack of love they gave their raider base, they are trying to strategically weed us out so that we will move to Vanguard early next year.  It seems to me from reading all these threads that casual players do not have much of a problem with the games mechanics in a whole.  Anyway, I got off topic as I am more or less ranting so ill leave this post with this:  How in the name of zeus' butthole do they (the l33t development team) consider what they have provided our fellow Furies in EoF to be "in line" with our craptastic lineup of bile?  GFY SoE.
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Old 12-22-2006, 09:03 PM   #167
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then you need to change your original statement that it's only 8.5% proc rate cuz it isn't (not all the time and saying that is only misleading).. it's 3.2 times per minute on average, unhasted.
You are right. I reread my statement and it is misleading.
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Old 12-29-2006, 05:49 PM   #168
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Congrats SOE !!LU 13 cut the fun in half, EoF "combat changes" cut it in half again, now just another nerf, grats.Mitigation sucks if you don't have raid gear, resists suck if you don't have raid gear.What used to be a challenging and fun class, is now just a spam heal-cure class, what a shame.Vanguard is coming out soon, great game for everyone that feels EQ2 is too easy, so why freaking turn EQ2 into Vanguard now ?Been here since late beta, this decision making and no explanation sucks, cancelled account, will more than likely NEVER try another SOE product.Once agaion, grats SOE SMILEY
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Old 12-31-2006, 08:55 AM   #169
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It certainly sucks that our cure AA line has been nerfed it was the only good line for the raiding warden.  I do believe that our warden AA tree lacks a lot of imagination from developers our who tree seems to be more focused on the solo and PVP players.

 

One thing I liked about the Druid tree (KoS AA lines) there was a lot of choice for ALL players who play a warden, when you get together with a couple of our wardens the chances are they all been specked differently. There was not right or wrong path to go to they were reasonably good (except the wisdom line I think it’s a little weak, but that’s just my thoughts).

 

When the warden AA lines first came out before the nerf (EoF AA lines) I noticed there was:

  • only one line for the raiders which is the cure line,
  • two lines for the PvPers and soloers CA line and the Movement line 
  • weak line for the wardens who like to group the Renewal line. 

Therefore everyone was specked round about the same way.  Plus to top it off I felt all of our end abilities were very weak.

 

Couldn’t they have mixed it up a bit and have something in each line that all players can use regardless if you are a raider, soloer, PVP or even a warden who loves group like they did for the Druid tree or everyone else’s [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tree.

 

Can’t we have a variety to choice from??  Maybe if we have a variety perhaps we wouldn’t of been nerfed.

 

I do think a complete revamp of the tree is needed the Dev’s need to add a little bit more creativity and thought to it.

Message Edited by eclipse25 on 12-30-2006 07:57 PM

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Old 12-31-2006, 09:44 AM   #170
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I think they did put a lot of thought into it.  They thought to themselves, what will make our job the easiest so we won't have to worry about balance issues.  What's the easiest path to maintaining the status quo while still letting people feel that they're improving somehow.  I know, I got it, lets make AA lines that improve existing abilities.... but not improve any of the good abilities, lets make it so they improve the ones no one uses or are useless so we don't have to retweak mobs or have rebalancing issues.

So what they did was create an AA line that is based around not improving anything.  No AAs for heals, that would mean work!  Same goes with buffs, well at least the good ones.  So lets see, what are our weakest buffs in terms of survivability and healing ability.  Lets put the tree, death intervention, spores, roots.... hum.  There doesn't seem to be enough to make full AA lines.  I got it!  Lets make a melee line, but wait.... wardens might do more dps and unbalance something.  I got it, lets make the recast longer so people who take it will do the same damage with all those AA points.  That way people will have variety but balance won't be upset.  Then there was the cure line... the problem with this line was it actually had a use!  OMG, nurf it!  An AA ability for a class like a warden that has some value can't stay for long.  Then they had some final abililties left to make so they came up with nature's walk.  Make it so it doesn't stop any knockbacks except for pvp and for pve it just stops roots.  We wouldn't want balance to be unsettled.

So maybe they just ran out of ideas in the end.  We didn't have any abilities left that totally sucked to give us AAs for.  So they gave us the cure line for a couple of weeks and then nurfed it so it would look like they took the time to finish a whole tree.  That works, now we have a whole section of our AA line that's totally useless but it looks like they designed a whole tree too.  Win Win.

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Old 12-31-2006, 01:55 PM   #171
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mikemcmodmike wrote:

I think they did put a lot of thought into it.  They thought to themselves, what will make our job the easiest so we won't have to worry about balance issues.  What's the easiest path to maintaining the status quo while still letting people feel that they're improving somehow.  I know, I got it, lets make AA lines that improve existing abilities.... but not improve any of the good abilities, lets make it so they improve the ones no one uses or are useless so we don't have to retweak mobs or have rebalancing issues.

So what they did was create an AA line that is based around not improving anything.  No AAs for heals, that would mean work!  Same goes with buffs, well at least the good ones.  So lets see, what are our weakest buffs in terms of survivability and healing ability.  Lets put the tree, death intervention, spores, roots.... hum.  There doesn't seem to be enough to make full AA lines.  I got it!  Lets make a melee line, but wait.... wardens might do more dps and unbalance something.  I got it, lets make the recast longer so people who take it will do the same damage with all those AA points.  That way people will have variety but balance won't be upset.  Then there was the cure line... the problem with this line was it actually had a use!  OMG, nurf it!  An AA ability for a class like a warden that has some value can't stay for long.  Then they had some final abililties left to make so they came up with nature's walk.  Make it so it doesn't stop any knockbacks except for pvp and for pve it just stops roots.  We wouldn't want balance to be unsettled.

So maybe they just ran out of ideas in the end.  We didn't have any abilities left that totally sucked to give us AAs for.  So they gave us the cure line for a couple of weeks and then nurfed it so it would look like they took the time to finish a whole tree.  That works, now we have a whole section of our AA line that's totally useless but it looks like they designed a whole tree too.  Win Win.




LOL I love the slight bit of sarcasm, however you do have a point I’m not sure how they can have half Warden Tree aimed towards PVP and soloing while on the other half is sooooo badly nerfed (meaning Cure AA lines) or have a line that doesn’t really improve anything and call it balanced??

 

Infact our AA lines are very unbalanced, this what they look like now:

 

  • Movement Line – Seemed to be more aimed for the solo player and PVP, the last ability Nature’s Walk doesn’t seemed to work on PVE. If something says Grants the Warden's group immunity to Root and most Knockback attacks, then I expect it to do just that is that to much to ask??

    However if we were aloud to cast Bracken and Trapping Vines on Epic mobs without the root effect and act like a slow or debuff and fix up Nature’s Walk then this line might be a little more attractive

 

  • CA Line – Another one that seems to be more aimed for the solo player and PVP, I’m not sure what to say here I never tried this line for the simple reason I would be laughed out of my raiding guild if I went for this and only that I don’t see myself jousting with the scout classes between AOE’s on a Epic encounter.

    Honestly I’m not sure how practical this line is for a defensive warden if you look at our armor sets for example KoS Relic, Animist’s Gear, Sacred Grove gear (EoF fabled set) and Jale Phlintoe’s Wildfire set (EoF legendary set) they don’t have much in the way of strength in them.

 

  • Renewal line – This seems to be the line that doesn’t really improve very much.   Spirit of the bat I would say would be the only thing useful in this tree.  The Death Interventions isn’t bad as a raider you are not going to get much use of it if you are not in the MT group, which to our weak buffs we are certainly not going to be there.

    Numbing Spores is……okay still very random when it heals and even then its still not much use in a raid situation if you aren’t in the MT group.

    As for Protecting Grove why would you want to spend your points on faster recast timers on something that doesn’t even scale to your level….good god it doesn’t even heal that much.

    Plus the final AA ability Reformation is a very weak end AA.  Just a suggestion why not have a ability to improve one of our weak buffs or maybe add a end AA in there that could buff avoidance like we once did with Duststorm before the combat changes when DoF came out.

 

 

  • Cure Line – Why on earth you want to spend points here?? 3 hits is a over nerf.  There’s a lot of suggestions to here to make it better like extending the duration.

    Then you have the final AA Shatter Infection another weak end AA ability.

 

 

Is it possible the Dev’s are trying to make the Warden class into soloing and PVP class than a group and raid class??

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Old 01-03-2007, 12:09 PM   #172
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Ahlspiess wrote:
Weapon delay  just appears to help the proc rate.
 
With a 1.6 weapon you'll  swing 37.5 times in a minute. Each swing you'll have a 8.53% chance of proc'ing so you'll average ~3.2 procs per minute.
 
With a 2.4 weapon it's 25 swings per minute. With 12.8% you'll also proc at ~3.2 times per minute.
 
An 8 second weapon has 7.5 swings with 42.7% for ~3.2 procs.Youre right here. All same procs are ~ equal, no matter what delay weapons you use. (If parsed average dmg for a longer period)... and luckily for us, the also talk about x.y chance to proc per minute now, instead of %.
 
If there is a weapon over 4 seconds for us, I wouldn't use it just because of the 75% crit. More then that and we'll do less DPS.Have you tested this btw? Curious since i've been too lazy to parse the difference myself SMILEYStill, i have the gut feeling that the over 4s delay weapons are not that bad... if you pick one with high max dmg and bigh gap between min and max dmg atleast...
 
Appreciate trying to be optimistic though. I still think all our AA's are crap.Sniff, thats too bad... i personally love our AA's... they kinda brought a new viable option to play a warden. I respecced from INT line and honestly, i couldnt care less if i now make 100DPS more or less than before. I know im having loads of fun, and thats what really matters to me! SMILEY
 

++Xan

Message Edited by xandez on 01-03-2007 09:12 AM

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Old 01-04-2007, 01:10 AM   #173
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sadly..i have decided to mostly play my Troubie over my warden. i  have played since launch and the changes they keep making to "balance" the classes is just doing nothing to balance wardens with the rest. i still dust her off now and again.. but i dont Expect SoE to give a crap as they obviouly dont anyways or they would listen to those that actually play the class...
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:34 AM   #174
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eclipse25 wrote:

CA Line – Another one that seems to be more aimed for the solo player and PVP, I’m not sure what to say here I never tried this line for the simple reason I would be laughed out of my raiding guild if I went for this and only that I don’t see myself jousting with the scout classes between AOE’s on a Epic encounter

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________

Im just about sick of people stereo typing this line .....Sure it does take alot of pts to maximize the usefulness of this line (40+ AA's)  But people that think you are giving up your healing/defensiveness to do it are just wrong. You actually get a whole other heal by picking the druid str line ..... and the ability to deal a little damage while still spam healing your butt off.

What % of the content are the dreaded AOE's that everybody's worried about .......maybe 10%.....and half of those you would have to be out of heal range to avoid anyway.  And if your in that Uber Raid guild thats gona laugh you out ..... Then you probly have those nice Trinkets available to you .....like the one that prevents Aoe's.

The Cure line still has Raid utility....Especially the end ability......I plan on going down this line after my CA line.....after putting 21 pts in cure line ....Ill still have 8 pts to get spirit of the bat max.    Throw in some blessings and Miracles And ill be a Freaking Force of Nature.

Message Edited by Skivley101 on 01-03-2007 03:10 PM

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Old 01-04-2007, 10:14 AM   #175
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Skivley101 wrote:

eclipse25 wrote:

CA Line – Another one that seems to be more aimed for the solo player and PVP, I’m not sure what to say here I never tried this line for the simple reason I would be laughed out of my raiding guild if I went for this and only that I don’t see myself jousting with the scout classes between AOE’s on a Epic encounter

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________

Im just about sick of people stereo typing this line .....Sure it does take alot of pts to maximize the usefulness of this line (40+ AA's)  But people that think you are giving up your healing/defensiveness to do it are just wrong. You actually get a whole other heal by picking the druid str line ..... and the ability to deal a little damage while still spam healing your butt off.

What % of the content are the dreaded AOE's that everybody's worried about .......maybe 10%.....and half of those you would have to be out of heal range to avoid anyway.  And if your in that Uber Raid guild thats gona laugh you out ..... Then you probly have those nice Trinkets available to you .....like the one that prevents Aoe's.

The Cure line still has Raid utility....Especially the end ability......I plan on going down this line after my CA line.....after putting 21 pts in cure line ....Ill still have 8 pts to get spirit of the bat max.    Throw in some blessings and Miracles And ill be a Freaking Force of Nature.


Unfortunately it would take more than 40+ AA’s to get full use of this, you pretty much need to be equipped in armor and in weapons to get the benefits and not many wardens are really equipped this way.

I know myself I'm a healer, damage is secondary and that’s the how I spec my AA’s and equipped my warden.

Again the CA line has a lot of good feedback on the forums depending on your gameplay.

 

Back to the Cure lines….

  

The other issue with this line is that the effect doesn’t come up on your Maintained Spells window, (that I don’t understand considering our Regenerative Spores show up in there when that procs) I'm not sure if that is a bug or a oversight by the Dev's.

At this point  you pretty much have to guess when the effect is gone.

If you can see the effect in the Maintained Spells window then this ability would be alot more useful.


 

Message Edited by eclipse25 on 01-03-2007 09:24 PM

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Old 01-04-2007, 01:17 PM   #176
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Crashhn wrote this in thread called ..."Cures not working at all"

Also, if you've used the Warden AA choices, you buff your target.  This buff shows up on their character in a red-orange color.  I thought it was an ailment the first time I saw it, but it was just the buff component.
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I dont have any cures yet so i dont know first hand.
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Old 01-11-2007, 11:25 PM   #177
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Skivley101 wrote:

Crashhn wrote this in thread called ..."Cures not working at all"

Also, if you've used the Warden AA choices, you buff your target.  This buff shows up on their character in a red-orange color.  I thought it was an ailment the first time I saw it, but it was just the buff component.
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I dont have any cures yet so i dont know first hand.

Yes, the buff component shows on the target.
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