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Old 10-11-2018, 04:49 AM   #31
slica

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Has Icewaters damage been adjusted on beta yet?
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:24 AM   #32
Minimme

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As a channler it seems like nothing have changed, my dps is close to nothing and all hopes are for ascensions and may be thorns potions). On fury i am doing fine without clicking any ascensions at all.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:59 AM   #33
Grus

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If mystics will suffer so much as we imagine, I really hope that there will be a way to transfer all of the ascension spell levels (ancient) from my mystic to one of my alts!
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:31 PM   #34
Sakurra

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im not intressted in the to be the best in dps parse. I think the most mystics thinks same as me. I like to do more then now on dps so that i dont need a half an hour 4 a solo instance cuz i hit the mobs like nothing. the only way to bring a mob "fast" down is using and ascension spell. My own abilites ( skilled or mystics own) will dropp a mob less then 1% of hp.....and my mystic is really good geared ( lasventura when someone like to look). and to the healing : to heal solo with mystic is really hard but its possible. fun is something else in the case and I'm really contemplating on the mytstiker to hang on the nail who it stays. at times before Kunark Ascending it was still a pleasure to play but at the moment it is a cramp. All the changes that have been made are useless. Spirit Tap, which has previously healed based healing, now heals every sec. 10% of max hp and still has a reuse of as much as 5 minutes. Totemic protection is useless because it simply does not heal. Ancestral Support does not do what it should. You cast him when the DDs drive full dps and at the end a 4 million come out ...... laughable.
Yeah well sometimes it will be 25 million but most of the time will be between 4 and 8. And last but not least, the mystic does not even have any reactive or hots to properly heal any incidental damage. the only effective grp cure is a direct cure with a 4 sec reuse. yes i knew the mystic has one more (skilled) but he has a reuse of ohja 1 minute. helpful if it gets brittle but not one you can install in a fixed rotation. And if the change goes the way I think, then the mystics will probably not be able to heal solo anymore.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:56 PM   #35
Clintsat

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Caith,
Below are Fury spell/AA opportunities I've observed. Some are common across all classes and probably aren't worth changing but it can't hurt to pull these together for you. I'll continue to take a look at these as Beta progresses. Thanks!

Spells
Epic 1.0 Wrath's Blessing - Does not work, large hits actually reduce ability mod on the target. Additionally, increasing heal ability mod only really helps warders.

Feast - Not broken but the heal effect isn't worth anything because players are either green or dead. Since you can't control the timing, the heal effect can't be leveraged.

Porcupine - The heal on this is just way too small to ever matter.

Primal Fury - Proc is extremely weak (negligible ability casting speed; haste and multi-attack. The AA modifier makes it add just 10 potency).

Autumn's Kiss - Duration is short relative to other healers specialty heal/ward if the intention is that it be maintained on the group during combat.

Regrowth - Duration is short relative to other healers specialty heal/ward if the intention is that this be maintained on a tank.

AA - Specific
General note
All bonuses to heal spells offer almost no benefit as the smallest heal still heals someone to full hp. The exceptions to this statement are the AAs that increase the tick count of HoTs or decrease the time between ticks.

Fury Page
Enhance: Porcupine - Adds a 100 hp heal...it's just not meaningful

Enhance: Thunderbolt - None of the bonuses have any value (casting speed, reuse and crit bonus)

Enhance: Starnova - None of the bonuses have any value (casting speed, reuse and crit bonus)

Enhance: Ring of Fire - Only improves reuse speed and doesn't stack with normal reforge reuse

Headmaster's Vitality - the % increase doesn't add a meaningful amount of stamina. A flat bonus would be better

Nature's Swarm - The damage increase is simply 35% potency

Tunare's Touch - Immaterial reduction in casting time of a spell we have 3 of on separate timers that all completely heal a player

Animal Form - can the power regen proc off of ranged autoattack?

Energy Vortex - simply adds 10 CB

Shadow Page
Elemental Mastery - simply 10 potency

Nature's Storm - simply 20 potency and 10 CB

Hunter's Call - simply adds 10 potency when there is a proc

Essence of the Stormcaller - simply adds 10 potency and 5CB

Master of Storms (offensive stance) - various effects that basically do nothing if you have a decent reforge

Heroic Page
Protective Instinct - Capped at 30% of hp; would be nice if this was capped at 100% of hp

Natural Presence - the spellcast mana reduction doesn't really do anything because the Fury only really loses power when there is a drain, not from casting spells.

Dragon Page
Intent Smiting and Concentrated Restoration - simply adds negligible flat potency

Unyielding Retribution - CB is capped for most already so this isn't useful

Prestige Page
Lightning Aura - the potency increment is simply too small to be useful

Stormbarrier - the hp and potency increase is too small to be useful

Stormlord - the power returned doesn't do anything in a drain fight (it's drained faster than this will restore power) and starnova isn't really a great damage spell even at 1.5 seconds
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:10 AM   #36
Enviy

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You make my brain hurt. Why are you a fury?
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:36 AM   #37
Reecez

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Most priest do not really need changes besides Inquisitor, Rest are fine just learn how to play your class, I agree Protective Instinct should be looked at and possibly changed. And the Mystic in me kind of wants group wide Torpor just because it would be nice Smile
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:13 PM   #38
Alway

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  • Isnt this just pot? So basically a useless change? Lol
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:28 PM   #39
Sakurra

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is it right that i lose nearly the half hitpoints on my wards?? on live atm i cast a ward ( grp over a billion single nearly a billion)

now my grp ward has nearly over 700 million an single a bit over 400 million.

Yeah i know potency loss ect ect. but we gain fervor so normaly my shields must have the same stats as before right?

But now my question: dosent the wards affected from fervor anymore?? or fervor does not work properly because of the few pot ? should that be so??
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:32 PM   #40
Vipersx

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I agree with everything Vaza stated. Inquisitors along with every other class that has AA and Buffs to Melee stats need either a complete redo or for auto attack to make a come back. It was always part of the game... not sure why it was ever taken out.
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Old 10-13-2018, 10:04 PM   #41
Sigrdrifa

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You can't determine "best healer" looking at a heal parse. Because wards take the first hit in an attack, they show up as big numbers on a heal parse. Reactives take the attack after wards. Direct heals and HOTs go third. Bleedthrough on wards will make some difference in heal parses, because solo shaman will be cycling group heals with the wards, and other healers will be doctoring the bleedthrough when you have more than one healer in a group.

I judge a good healer by whether they keep us alive, and do they cure? I'm always shocked at how many healers don't cure.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:06 PM   #42
Clintsat

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The cure scripts in the past few raid/heroic zones (Hate, Guk) are a bit much. Nobody likes to cure.....
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:22 PM   #43
Adoninilol

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Back when bolster was a relevant buff, mystics were actually always better than defilers, in both the dps aspect and heal aspect. Because the bonus HP was better than what defilers brought, and oberon equaled out to deathward.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:56 AM   #44
Daelini

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Channeler:

Many mobs are killing the pet
Many mobs - trash and named - are draining the pets health to 0 in a single hit or two.
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Old 10-14-2018, 12:58 PM   #45
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So I finaly had a chance to look at beta Inquisitor myself. To put it plainly-the worst class in the game became even worse.

1) A few pages ago someone said that almost every priest got a ward. Well, that "almost" is Inquisitor for sure since we got nothing. While more and more classes are getting proper wards they can maintain all the fight, developers constantly refuse removing 50% threshold on our only ward, wich has 2-4 times longer cd and 5-10 times lower amount then wards that other classes have.
2) We do not have any DR, reliable ward or other means to help the group and/or tank to survive. And no - our 30-40 ml HP decaying buff does not equial to a several billion hp ward. Even with potency reduction and 50% bleedthrough 700 ml ward (as Sakurra claims on the previous page) is still still better.
3) We do not have any meaningful group buffs or utilities. While other prests do not provide a lot, they still give some. All ours are unwanted garbage.
4) The last, but not least. The only thing Inquisitor was superior to other classes( or was more convinient and relaxing, if you like) was solo gameplay. One could basically oneshot every outland mob with autoattack and had easy time in solozones without casting ascensions. Now it's gone as well. With the nerf of autoattack dps because of cb reduction. Instead of almost 5k cb on live, I have twice as less on beta. Wich is a rather big hit to our overall dps in general, since even in raids mele dealt up to 60% of our dps. It is especially funny to see all the fervor increase:the stat that is pretty usless for the class (it is only good for Ascension spells, and since a few remaining Inquisitors are mostly Geomancers...) Oh, and yes, even with 50 more fervor and 11% increase Combat Arts still do nothing. Even with the nerf autoattack hits ten times harder then any combat art.

So far the best way to play an Inquisitor is to be a Templar. Betray and forget the nightmare.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:20 PM   #46
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Don't know to which zones and mobs u are referring too, but from what i noticed the pet HP goes down not from hits but rather from curing dets that effect the Channeler's CB

https://imgur.com/5f1DHt8

https://imgur.com/XtBCujJ

The following images shows 2 dets that decrease the player's CB.
Basically it's the old bug back from ToV due to changes to the pet's max health current health not working right.

the bug can easily reproduce by grping a druid with a Channeler then have the druid move 30m away then run bk and check the pet's HP, once the druid gets near the HP with drop.
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Old 10-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #47
Minimme

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Channler:
live - 99 mil hp/beta 71 mil hp
live -106 k potency/beta 50k potency
live - construct hp - 2.188.959.060/beta 730.476.051
pet dies very often in solo zones for example in midnight aerie it died right after pulling single mob near tower when you need to click thing on the ground to get update for signature. It dies with 100% chances when spider turns into group in same zone.
It died on pull of last boss in that zone instantly.
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:06 PM   #48
Daelini

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My Pet Rock has died so often that I stopped even casting it - I let Grimror (defiler merc from PoP) do all of the healing for me. It is pointless to have a pet that is drained of health in 1-2 seconds or dies when anything even remotely looks at it.

I noticed, like you, that the health on it was significantly lower than on live. This needs a fix badly otherwise there is no reason to even attempt to heal on a Channeler. Intercepts are useless when the pet dies or when it is reduced to no HP immediately and every time you heal it back up.

I was unfamiliar with this bug. PoP was my first run with a Channeler and, given the changes I am seeing for Shaman, I was planning on raid healing a Channeler again this xpac. With the current layout, that won't happen and we will be dead weight.

For the zones - it is happening in every single zone. I have yet to make it through a single solo where my pet is not killed repeatedly, or has its health drained to 0 the instant I attack something. I gave up on the pet and have been slogging through with a defiler merc. If I wasn't at the end of the sig line, I would swap over to one of my other toons - I just really want several copies of the mounts.
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Old 10-14-2018, 06:51 PM   #49
slica

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It still is? -_-
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Old 10-14-2018, 07:20 PM   #50
Earar

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mystics are the buffers, defilers are the debuffers

and tbh defiler WAS the most offensive healer.

defile, maelstrom, nightmare --> oberon, spirit tap, bolster


and what do we care ? healer's dps comes mostly from ascensions

Bolster is still great with the epic 2 buff
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:26 PM   #51
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I don't care about the heal parse. I care about surviving a 400M auto attack, and no healer but a shaman is saving you from that regularly. Quit with the heal parse crap. I didn't say a thing about it.
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Old 10-16-2018, 08:53 AM   #52
Sigrdrifa

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Mystics have just a couple of buffs, but they have a goodly range of both single-target and encounter debuffs, mostly noxious, so if you're also a Thaumaturge, you can really contribute to a group or raid's DPS by debuffing the holy living drunder out of everything... once you have your group stable, of course.
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Old 10-16-2018, 02:38 PM   #53
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First of all. This 4% are like 0.5% in reality. Maybe not even that.

Secondly, I would really like to know why a warden needs to be superior in both, dps AND healpower, these days? The improved groupward for a warden doesn't belong to a druid - it's to powerful now - period. What is the reason behind that ("a pilot"? Smile)? Sure we have cool harm reduction for our group here and there, but that's it. I would like to see a little more adjustment. I am sure players like clintsat or myself could give solid feedback.
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:44 PM   #54
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If I'm understanding the description of how bleedthrough is going to work, I have to wonder what the shamans will be doing in this expac. I've played a defiler since the start of the game. We've always stacked wards. Now it seems there will be no point in even having more than one ward unless we're single target warding people in other groups? Seems that this well negate a good part of the aa's that are currently applicable, everything on the ethereal runes except the fervor, and reduce us to casting a group ward? I have to wonder why I'd continue to play the class.
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:06 PM   #55
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I didn't think it was possible for the channeler construct to die. I thought it was just supposed to stop intercepting damage but yeah it keeps dying in solo zones.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:16 PM   #56
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I'd really like to see the bleed through clarified.

The way im reading it now, it sounds like it makes no sense for me to stack wards any longer... just cast my large group ward, and do other stuff until it expires or wears off?

Doesnt seem right that me layering 4-5 wards on someone will have exactly the same effect as me just casting a single group ward.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:24 PM   #57
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The way bleedthrough appears to be intended to function now, would the damage be toned down to not one shot groups that don't have wards or are we going to need wards in every group to prevent one-shots? That seems like it would be a slap in the face to non-warders solo healing, and if the damage doesn't quite one-shot but ticks too fast, a warder would have issues keeping up with bleedthrough as well without a hot healer or a reactive healer with them.
TL;DR it seems that this would mean we need two healers in every group? In some cases, for some raids, that simply is not viable.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:36 PM   #58
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That is correct. You should probably layer them at the edges so a potential big hit doesn't take down the whole ward before you get a second up.
Putting point wards and 2 group wards up at the same time would be a waste, yes.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:15 AM   #59
Sath182

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The channeler pet HP issues look like they’re related to the issues Font of Power has with reapplying the correct HP buff once maximum range is exceeded.

In The Bixel Hive atm, while in range my construct has 1.2 Bil hp. I anchored my construct and started moving, once I reached 250m distance, its HP jumped to 1.88 Bil. Moving back under250m, my constructs HP remained at 1 Mil until recasting Font of Power. Deactivating Font set its HP at the normal 790 Mil, and recasting Font retuned it to 1.2 Bil HP. I’m able to repeat these results at will.

I believe that the construct is dropping to the bottom of the instance periodically and ends up with its max HP set at 1 Mil without the player noticing and thus he gets one shot.

I’ve also noticed another Font related 1 Mil HP bug while duo in a solo zone.
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Old 10-17-2018, 06:09 PM   #60
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Shamans and bleedthrough
As was stated above, wardens have solo healed T4 raid mobs. I've seen templars solo heal the main tank group on T4's. All classes can solo various groups depending on the mob and the dps. All classes can solo heal expert zones.
Now, with the change (as explained) to bleedthrough, I question whether shamans will be able to solo heal much of anything. Defilers have limited ability to heal, and mystics are in a worse situation (from what I've heard).
Looks like for raids, one shaman would be sufficient. Cast soul shackle/bane of warding/spiritual circle to fill in gaps - whole raid is warded. Maybe cast group ward just to be safe.
However, with the reduced tick damage, probably be better off with clerics and druids. Unless the tick damage is hitting multiple times a second, other classes have more heals and cures than shamans do.
OR, maybe instead of essentially destroying shamans, developers could address the root of the problem. For instance, at levels above 100, reduce the base heal amount of wards, reactives, and hots to bring the heals into line with desired damage. Class heals didn't (as they do now) heal 100% of incoming damage - thus stacking wards - until potency, crit bonus, etc. got out of hand. Wards used to actually get used up, clerics had to heal, not just use reactives, same for druids.
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