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Old 07-13-2011, 02:28 AM   #1
Gahnand
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Like, I'm sorry you didn't have time to get testing. That said

I'm sick of walking into new content that can't even be touched because the mechanics and scale you dreamed up is a joke. How many hardmode mobs have been killed since GU60? OH THATS RIGHT NONE.

Pardon my frustrations, but over the last few years I've spoken against so many people bashing new content. I just can't believe that everything is this far out of whack.

Every 15s random you cast you die buff that lasts for 15s? Seriously? How bad are you trying to hold us back from content that is unfinished? I seriously can only imagine that is the goal. That's just one mob, and I haven't even mentioned (ok yes i did) the fact that after more than a month no one can kill even one hardmode named from the new content. There are THREE (amirite?) new hard mode ZONES. Not letting us even start putting a dent in the very first one is a joke.

Honestly, I just want to play this game. I've been playing it for so long, and I truly do love my mystic buttons, but I really feel that all I've been doing for the last few months is just waiting for you guys to apply a big enough nerf that a mob is killable by everybody as opposed to providing a challenging encounter that may require top tier gear and/or skill to progress.

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Old 07-13-2011, 02:37 AM   #2
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I like how nerfing the crit mit req of these zones did almost nothing to make them realistic to beat for their proper audience.

EM mobs including trash have hard mode or higher hp and damage output, and scripts that give you almost no clues on what you need to do, and or require lightning fast non-human reaction times etc.

HM versions are probably an excercise in frustration and futility.

Yup, definitely feels like a stalling mechanic, or they have absolutely no idea what players realistically are or are not capable of.

It's sad being in mostly HM gear and wiping to the first EM encounter of the new zone for 2 hours because its scaled to be harder than almost every normal hard mode boss out right now.

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Old 07-13-2011, 08:05 AM   #3
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My only issue with Backlash, as an Inquisitor, was that my Group heal/reac/cure counts as 6 casts so basically one-shot me. If that was recognised as only a single spell cast I'd be able to do my job, with some challenge, instead of basically standing there watching my group die, which isn't fun or challenging.Having to use a backup alt healer in case I had Backlash isn't fun or challenging.

Combat Madness leaving players unable to do anything is not fun or challenging. If it lands on a solo healer that's a dead group - how is that fun for that group and others?Having to use a backup alt healer in case I had Combat Madness isn't fun or challenging.SOE: You said after the Veeshan's Peak outrage that you weren't going to implement mechanics that took players completely out of raids yet you have. Why?

The mana drain - we just dealt with it.Guilds without our level of HM gear and geared backup healers are going to really struggle.

Honestly, good fight if backlash is tweaked so healers can still do their jobGreat fight if Combat Madness is removed - why you think any player will enjoy this effect is beyond me.As expected the loot was between Dov EM and HM so just alt fodder.

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Old 07-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #4
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In my honest opinion, the difficulty of this fight was about right progression wise, if the progression had been implemented correctly.

The way I understood the drunder zones to work, was that you had to clear Sullons to get Tallons and then so on... If this was correct, then the difficulty of it seems about right to me.

A lot of guilds per server are now making good progress in Sullons, and i'd imagine a lot could clear it, if the loot was worth the time and effort they'd have to spend it there. But as it isn't, people won't bother with it at all.

As for this new zone, I liked it, first encounter was difficult for a change, required people to pay attention and not just the usual tank and spank, kill this add, kill that add, cure curses crap. You can moan all you like about the difficulty, but on the first day of release, 3 of the nameds were killed, which proves it is do-able. I'd rather it was challenging to begin with, and then SoE nerfed it as they always do, than it being too easy, and every guild and there alts clearing it on release.

This is the first expansion in a while that I can think that guilds haven't been clearing it all or most within the first month. Its actually taking time to progress, and isn't that what we all want?

For the first encounter, I don't disagree that the backlash was a pain in the rear, but it was manageable, power drain was a bit sucky, but our chanters are decent. And combat madness? It gave me a chance to take a drink mid pull. How awesome is that!

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Old 07-13-2011, 09:18 AM   #5
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Morghus wrote:

I like how nerfing the crit mit req of these zones did almost nothing to make them realistic to beat for their proper audience.

EM mobs including trash have hard mode or higher hp and damage output, and scripts that give you almost no clues on what you need to do, and or require lightning fast non-human reaction times etc.

HM versions are probably an excercise in frustration and futility.

Yup, definitely feels like a stalling mechanic, or they have absolutely no idea what players realistically are or are not capable of.

It's sad being in mostly HM gear and wiping to the first EM encounter of the new zone for 2 hours because its scaled to be harder than almost every normal hard mode boss out right now.

The one designing scripts is to be fired. He loves to introduce meaningless scripts that require you to simply do something illogical/stupid. One good example are those curses that should not be cured, while others must be cured within 4 seconds. And those are menial (you learn quickly about it).

Another new feature he introduced is the necessity to examine negative effects that have a 10 pages long description SMILEY

I still have to see some fight that is a not a cure/aggro snap feast.

Something with kiting, mezzing, rooting, or an encounter in which you would split the raid in 4 groups dealing with 4 encounters. Or a figth with manasieve, stun, interupts, silences. But this would imply a creative designer.

One utter failure is that due to massive curing, most raid leader tend to have two healers per group.

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Old 07-13-2011, 09:31 AM   #6
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Have the same gripe here. Every new zone the players are getting into: more bugs/broken mobs, or incredibly annoying effects and overpowered mobs. And having the content tweaked 1-2 weeks after a couple guilds finally get blocked by it really screams at how bad the fights are being designed and tested.

It all feels like completely untested content until the players themself test and lose patience over it. Pathing is especially fun in all the zones really.

The encounters this expansion are overall annoying to me... Always trying to "mix things up", but it's really just more of the same. There are some I enjoy but nothing really stands out. I mean even beside stupid curse cures and clickie cures... coop strike and x2 debuff? Is this really the rest of DOV? Is this game going to revolve around using a 3rd party tool like ACT for the rest of it's life span?

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Old 07-13-2011, 10:05 AM   #7
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I hate to keep beating a (very) dead horse, but SOE had a guy with some creativity involved in raid encounters during SF.  They fired him.  God forbid someone design a better encounter than the existing designer.

I am still BEYOND frustrated with the absolutely TERRIBLE signaling in raid encounters.  There needs to be some kind of better system developed to let folks at least have a CLUE what they are supposed to do in a given situation.

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Old 07-13-2011, 10:18 AM   #8
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The first named in tallons took us about 1 hour to figure out with alts and lots of people afk.

If you cant kill it, its because your guild isnt good enough. Dont cry, look at the buff, look at the parse and figure out how to kill it.

You dont even need much crit mit. All you need is a little thought.

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Old 07-13-2011, 11:09 AM   #9
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Perhaps you need to re-read the original post.  This is a discussion of the HARD MODE versions.

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Old 07-13-2011, 11:56 AM   #10
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Errror wrote:

This is the first expansion in a while that I can think that guilds haven't been clearing it all or most within the first month. Its actually taking time to progress, and isn't that what we all want?

Think harder.  Every expansion features broken content that isn't cleared until fixed, which in case you were wondering is what all the Drunder raid zones are.

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The one designing scripts is to be fired. He loves to introduce meaningless scripts that require you to simply do something illogical/stupid.

Roger will never be fired, ever.  Get over it.

Banditman wrote:

Perhaps you need to re-read the original post.  This is a discussion of the HARD MODE versions.

No it is not.

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The first named in tallons took us about 1 hour to figure out

It took us like 15 mins to figure it out, go you!  Just because something can be killed, doesn't mean its a good encounter.

Its a random, luck based encounter.  Wooooooooooooo I love those.  Man I hope our tanks on the tank debuff mob aren't both backlashed at the same time, oh crap one is backlashed and one has combat retardation~

Woops, both the healers in group 3 have backlash, that entire group is going to die.  Nice.  Lets form up and pull again and hope for the best.

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Old 07-13-2011, 12:13 PM   #11
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There is this new system called off tanking. Basically when a tank dies you have another tank picking the mobs up.

You guys should try it sometime instead of crying on the forums.

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Old 07-13-2011, 12:49 PM   #12
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Oh so you used six tanks?  My bad, we only have four guilded.

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Old 07-13-2011, 12:54 PM   #13
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Gaige wrote:

Oh so you used six tanks?  My bad, we only have four guilded.

We used 3.

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Old 07-13-2011, 12:54 PM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

We used 3.

...

Right.

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:04 PM   #15
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While the mechanics of the generals is truly not fun at this point, I'm not complaining about one fight. Complaining about one fight just leads to more of exactly the bigger problem ITT. Every new encounter is way out of scale and REQUIRES tweaks. Don't get me wrong, I understand that some mobs are going to have this problem, but walking into new content (and yes I mean Sullons HM) and not being able to touch the very first named for one month+ is just a slap in the face. Progression is halted because there isn't a way to gain new gear to deal with the insane crit mit requirements. I haven't bid DKP in more than a month, and yes I realize there is ONE mob that is killable that we are behind on, but even when we kill that mob farming 6 pieces a week is going to take us a few more weeks to take raidwide advantage on new content. Let us kill some mobs in Sullons HM, so we have a mixture of incoming gear.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:04 PM   #16
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We used 3 - at times tanks got Backlash and Combat Moronicness.

I agree, as can be seen by my earlier post, that the mechanics of this one fight are not ideal, or fun, and it can be argued either way that we were:a) Lucky b) Skillfully dealt with Backlash and the other effects.

I think we had a combination of the 2 and I wish you more of both.

Edit: Completely agree with Gahnand - not being able to touch the HM mobs due to the gear requirements is frustrating. It'll get worse over time as new recruits will need more and more gear just to survive and then it's a lottery of if it drops. We've had 3 healer earrings in total from Tormax and for 8 kills (4 weeks) we never saw healer HM legs.Wonder how long before people start clamouring for smart loot.

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:29 PM   #17
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6 tanks [Removed for Content], you have no clue

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:33 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

Wonder how long before people start clamouring for smart loot.

People (myself included) have been asking for Smart loot for months now.

It's just now becoming more obvious to the more progressed guilds that there is in fact a problem.

For the first time since I can remember, SOE has adequate quantity, and probably quality, of content.  However, itemization and progression are a catastrophe and preventing the population from truly enjoying the content.

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:34 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

While the mechanics of the generals is truly not fun at this point, I'm not complaining about one fight. Complaining about one fight just leads to more of exactly the bigger problem ITT. Every new encounter is way out of scale and REQUIRES tweaks. Don't get me wrong, I understand that some mobs are going to have this problem, but walking into new content (and yes I mean Sullons HM) and not being able to touch the very first named for one month+ is just a slap in the face. Progression is halted because there isn't a way to gain new gear to deal with the insane crit mit requirements. I haven't bid DKP in more than a month, and yes I realize there is ONE mob that is killable that we are behind on, but even when we kill that mob farming 6 pieces a week is going to take us a few more weeks to take raidwide advantage on new content. Let us kill some mobs in Sullons HM, so we have a mixture of incoming gear.

You have a mixture of incomming gear. For your well geared members you have hm tormax loot, drunder helm, drunder chest. Recruits and unlucky members have the above + they get to complete their jewelry 2 piece sets.

Mabey em drunder 3 has some new adorns and things like that? another mount perhaps, we will see.

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:43 PM   #20
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You know what this is? Sullons all over again. 1 guild gets lucky, thinks they are the cats pajama's, and talks a bunch of crap. You guy lucky with things lining up in a way that didn't completely screw you. You didn't do something magical, you didn't have some amazing strat, you got lucky. There are things in this script that make it completely luck based. It isn't a hard fight to figure out. Oh look, if I cast or attack with this buff on me I die. Oh look, if people stand near me with this buff they lose all their power. Oh look, 3 mobs need 3 different debuffs, one of which is a fighter debuff. Yep, you guys are amazing. You know what happens when guilds run their mouth about how easy new content is and how amazing they are for killing it right?
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:52 PM   #21
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slip dont try make this into something it isnt, were not bragging

Its an indirect compliment to you that were surprised you guys dont see this mob as simple.

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:53 PM   #22
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Dealing with backlash is this:

1) Make ACT timer.

2) Play in windowed mode which makes the game even uglier because AA doesn't work.

3) Watch ACT timer, when it says 3 SECONDS UNTIL BACKLASH stop everything.  Wait.  Did you get backlash?  No.  Keep attacking for the next ~14 seconds.

4) Rinse/Repeat.

Its not hard.  The encounter isn't hard.  Its stupid and luck based.  Gratz on killing it though.  People who WW1st EM mobs always rocket to the top of progression on hard... woops, my bad, that never happens =/

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Old 07-13-2011, 01:58 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

slip dont try make this into something it isnt, were not bragging

Its an indirect compliment to you that were surprised you guys dont see this mob as simple.

Read your own posts.

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Old 07-13-2011, 02:08 PM   #24
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this thread is getting derailed by a mob no one is going to care about in 2 weeks tops. what was the one onyx killed? i don't even remember. this thread is not about ONE mob
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:24 PM   #25
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Ok i apologise if i come across bragging. I think mabey your being oversensitive but what ever.

We didnt brag about kraytoc, because it wasnt worth bragging about, we didnt brag about valdemar because there was nothing to brag about and if we kill tormax before you we wont brag about that either. Because really bragging about eq2 is pathetic.

We only got backlash on 2 healers at one time. Perhaps we did get lucky.

And never on more than 3 people at once. With that info the encounter does feel manageable.

Perhaps 3, 4 healers in your raid were getting it i dunno. I guess thats why gaige is talking about 6 tanks.

But with such a more powerful raid cant you guys just kill the backlash mob in like 60 secs..?

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Old 07-13-2011, 02:27 PM   #26
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You are just being dumb. Almost every single pull it was a guarantee to within 2 minutes have 2 healers in a tank group backlash/combat madness, or even 2 tanks, and to have the buffs instantly refresh on expire. It's a dead group. If you guys really only had it happen once, you should just stop posting in this thread and count your chickens before you try to do it again, because you got so lucky it isn't funny.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:50 PM   #27
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A dead group dosent mean a dead raid.

You do have 3 other groups right?

Dont try get the encounter nerfed so you can kill it with a boxed group.

And we didnt have it happen just once, what i ment was.. We never got back lash on more than 2 healers. So yeah plenty of other healers in raid to res, cross heal etc.

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Old 07-13-2011, 03:12 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

The first named in tallons took us about 1 hour to figure out with alts and lots of people afk.

If you cant kill it, its because your guild isnt good enough. Dont cry, look at the buff, look at the parse and figure out how to kill it.

You dont even need much crit mit. All you need is a little thought.

My money is on Equilibrium has killed every mob that you have this and last expansion long before you.

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Old 07-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:

Dont try get the encounter nerfed so you can kill it with a boxed group.

Fixed so its not stupid, random and luck based.  It doesn't need to be nerfed.

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Old 07-13-2011, 04:28 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

The first named in tallons took us about 1 hour to figure out with alts and lots of people afk.

If you cant kill it, its because your guild isnt good enough. Dont cry, look at the buff, look at the parse and figure out how to kill it.

You dont even need much crit mit. All you need is a little thought.

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slip dont try make this into something it isnt, were not bragging

Looks like Bragging to me.  

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