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Old 11-09-2006, 03:21 AM   #31
Crychtonn

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I disagree on the poison line.  If you are a raiding ranger you should get 5 in caustic, 3 in fetting (to get ancillary), and 5 in ancillary.  Debuffs are one of the most important things on raids and increasing the effectiveness of all debuff poisons is a very good AA to have.  I agree the final AA is only good for the cheapies out there :smileytongue:

I also wouldn't put any points into Hawk Dive.  The current durations is more then long enough to get off all high damage stealth required attacks.  The really nice part with the change is Hawk Dive and Veiled both have 1m 30s recast so we'll be able to use them in tandem and never have to stealth.

 

One request to the Dev's designing the AA's.  Would you consider changing part of the multishot line to reduce the recast timers like it is for Snaring Shot instead of having the reduced cast times.  Reduced recast like what we can get with Snaring Shot would be alot better then the very minor dereases in cast times.

 

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Old 11-09-2006, 03:28 AM   #32
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Why not both? Then it will be useful all around.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:55 AM   #33
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Just a note of Befriend animal, it only costs THREE slots! The AA you have to go through to get it aren't the best, but they do have their merit to get this pretty cool little ability. I plan to go down the line to put 5 points in this skill (to get an ad1 pet) and then some points into the double shot line.
 
I don't raid much, so the poisen line isn't all that important to me.
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:57 AM   #34
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That AA would be nice if I could actually find any animal pets worth using, as stated on the thread all about it, there aren't much animals to charm around level 70 to be worth using.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:25 AM   #35
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Now we need BA trash (akin to EQ Live DC trash SMILEY)
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Old 11-09-2006, 06:30 AM   #36
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Hook Arrow (new last of trap line) 1 second cast, 2 minute recast, 10 second duration, 2-25 meter range
                                     An arrow attack that summons your target to you. Your next melee attack will critical stike.
 

Has anyone tried this?  I'm kinda curious about it (Very unlikely I'll get it, but curious nonetheless).
 
Specifically, if used, does the summon avoid social agro?
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Old 11-09-2006, 07:26 AM   #37
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Hook Arrow seems to be bugged at the moment, whatever I target, it says I need a valid target to use it on(Yes, I had a real mob targeted SMILEY) I did a /bug and posted it in beta forums, hopefully I can test it out soon
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Old 11-09-2006, 10:49 AM   #38
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MacDaddy62 wrote:
Wow, I was really quite depressed about our AA's before, but they're looking decent now.  For a raiding ranger, 45 of the 50 points are absolute no brainers, but I'd be interested to hear about what people have to say about the last 5 points.  Just to be perfectly clear, these are the no-brainer choices, as I see it (all to rank 5):Caustic PoisonFocus AimKilling InstinctHoned ReflexesPrecise ShotSelectionRain of ArrowsTriple VolleyDouble AttackThis leaves 5 points that could be spent in either Stream of Arrows or Extension.  Snaring Shot would also be a nice option to have, but getting to it requires spending 6 points in AA's worthless to a raider, so it's out.  Choosing stream would concentrate stream's damage into a significantly shorter period of time, thus increasing the amount of dps it does while active, but does this improvement make M1 stream worthwhile as an alternative to auto bow and short-recast CA's, especially for a ranger with a high-end bow, ammo from a DT bow, and dps mod buffs?  Extension would give me a 5% increase in range, which is cool but not compelling, as well as a 4.5% increase in 'hit chance'.  How significant is this hit chance improvement, especially against high yellow and orange mobs?  Does it merely improve my chance to not miss or does it also decrease the chance that the mob will parry/block/deflect my shot?  I certainly don't expect that people will have definitive answers at this point, but I am interested in hearing opinions, and maybe someone has done or will do some tests if I'm lucky. =p-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

Message Edited by MacDaddy62 on 11-08-2006 05:38 AM


Extension is definitely much better than it was previously.  1% increased range per rank = 5% at rank 5: that adds a whopping 1.7 meters to our range using a 35 meter bow.  IMO that is pretty much nonexistant, so really the decision is whether the 4.5% increase to hit chance is worth it and we can pretty much ignore the range thing.  I'm still hoping they may upgrade that considering that it seems the point of that skill was primarily to increase range, with the added bonus of a hit chance upgrade.  As it stands it's a hit chance upgrade that happens to accidentally increase your range about the length of the dead gnome next to you.
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Old 11-09-2006, 11:33 AM   #39
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Ranvarenaya wrote:

MacDaddy62 wrote:
Wow, I was really quite depressed about our AA's before, but they're looking decent now.  For a raiding ranger, 45 of the 50 points are absolute no brainers, but I'd be interested to hear about what people have to say about the last 5 points.  Just to be perfectly clear, these are the no-brainer choices, as I see it (all to rank 5):Caustic PoisonFocus AimKilling InstinctHoned ReflexesPrecise ShotSelectionRain of ArrowsTriple VolleyDouble AttackThis leaves 5 points that could be spent in either Stream of Arrows or Extension.  Snaring Shot would also be a nice option to have, but getting to it requires spending 6 points in AA's worthless to a raider, so it's out.  Choosing stream would concentrate stream's damage into a significantly shorter period of time, thus increasing the amount of dps it does while active, but does this improvement make M1 stream worthwhile as an alternative to auto bow and short-recast CA's, especially for a ranger with a high-end bow, ammo from a DT bow, and dps mod buffs?  Extension would give me a 5% increase in range, which is cool but not compelling, as well as a 4.5% increase in 'hit chance'.  How significant is this hit chance improvement, especially against high yellow and orange mobs?  Does it merely improve my chance to not miss or does it also decrease the chance that the mob will parry/block/deflect my shot?  I certainly don't expect that people will have definitive answers at this point, but I am interested in hearing opinions, and maybe someone has done or will do some tests if I'm lucky. =p-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

Message Edited by MacDaddy62 on 11-08-2006 05:38 AM


Extension is definitely much better than it was previously.  1% increased range per rank = 5% at rank 5: that adds a whopping 1.7 meters to our range using a 35 meter bow.  IMO that is pretty much nonexistant, so really the decision is whether the 4.5% increase to hit chance is worth it and we can pretty much ignore the range thing.  I'm still hoping they may upgrade that considering that it seems the point of that skill was primarily to increase range, with the added bonus of a hit chance upgrade.  As it stands it's a hit chance upgrade that happens to accidentally increase your range about the length of the dead gnome next to you.

Yea, I'm definitely not of the opinion that 1.7 extra meters range is a good reason to spend 5 points.  It's certainly not going to let me dodge any extra AE's, lol.  The only thing the extra range is really good for is pulling, which is one of the few unique raid utilities I have (Surveillance, Amazing Shot, Bow of Searing Missiles, Safe Fall), and I do pull for my guild a fair amount.  The 5% range improvement would give me 2.25 meters extra range on my Bow of Searing Missiles.  However, I am absolutely NOT willing to sacrifice a better dps AA for that, if indeed there is one.  I'm just wondering which is a better overall dps improvement: the 4.5% hit chance improvement on extension or the Stream of Arrows improvement.  People have also been talking about the revamped Hawk Dive today, and while I love that change, I see no need to spend AA's in improving its duration, as the only reason I will use it will be to cast my stealth CA's without being in stealth, and even if I string ALL of them off, it's only going to take me about 13 seconds to do.  So again, my debate is really between the hit chance improvement on Extension and the Stream of Arrows improvement.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:21 PM   #40
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I want to point out that although we may be excited about our improved AA's, other classes also got their AA's similarly improved.  Our AA's were weak relative to those of other classes before the revamp, and unfortunately I think that may still be the case.  Take a look at assassin AA's now, for example.  They get a 35% damage boost to one of their dots, a 20% boost to another dot, and a 30% boost to their third dot.  They get a 40 second recast reduction on their mastery strikes and on 'Exacting', which is their CA which reduces the recast of short-recast CA's for a period of time.  They get a self AE immunity on a 1.5 minute recast (though they have to stay in stealth during it).  They also get boosts similar to (but different than) ours to one of their AE's, damage poison, Honed Reflexes, and their short duration dps buff.  The only things we get in our AA tree that could begin to make up for assassins' superior damage boosts, recast reductions, and AE immunity are our double attack and focus aim improvement, but I'm not at all convinced that those make up for all that.  I really think our AA's still need to be improved relative to assassin AA's, or else our relative dps may fall deeper into the pre-existing hole which is already going to be amplified by Rallos Zek and Solusek Ro and the lack of a good or neutral god of comparable worth to a ranger.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere

Message Edited by MacDaddy62 on 11-09-2006 04:21 AM

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Old 11-09-2006, 02:46 PM   #41
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well, im pretty sure they will look into these kind of things eventually, since the gap was alredy in favor towards other DPS classes... why would they want to make the gap larger?unless, well, dunno... hehAnyway, its still in beta, and even after launch they will continue to adjust things, it just might take a while SMILEY++Xan
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Old 11-09-2006, 03:25 PM   #42
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Its kinda funny, cause some assassins are saying that most their APs wont increase their DPS much... I mean, they get a 35% increase in dmg to one of their CAs, but it could be the same as increasing the dmg on Shocking Thrust by 50%.  Increasing a crap CA by alot will only make it mediocre :smileytongue: Or it could be the only good boost they get to any of their CAs. Comparing things at this time about a class ya may have limited info on will only give you a headache :smileywink: On our APs... sprint is the only thing the screams utter suck to me atm.  Maybe replace sprint with Dance of Leaves (fits survival I think) and then replace Dance of Leaves with Archer's Frenzy. /shrug

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Old 11-10-2006, 01:26 AM   #43
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xandez wrote:well, im pretty sure they will look into these kind of things eventually, since the gap was alredy in favor towards other DPS classes... why would they want to make the gap larger?unless, well, dunno... hehAnyway, its still in beta, and even after launch they will continue to adjust things, it just might take a while SMILEY++Xan

My, aren't we optimistic today.-Azleya, Ranger and Officer of StrikeLucan D'Lere
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Old 11-10-2006, 07:34 AM   #44
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Extension is now showing as 5% increase to ranged weapon range and 5% increase to hit chance. I don't have any ranks in it right now so that's the base. It's looking like all the end line ranks were changed to 1/1 though.

Message Edited by TaleraRis on 11-09-2006 09:39 PM

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Old 11-10-2006, 08:14 AM   #45
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I /bugged this but posting here since the devs are watching.We cannot unlock the last AA in the poisoning line right now.  It requires 20 points in poisoning and there is only a possiblity of 15 total.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:12 AM   #46
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as far as it goes, this is probably how i'll go with my aa's for max dps.5 in caustic5 in focus3 in honed reflexes5 in killing instinct5 in our defensive stance to get 100% reduction in penalties.5 in precise shot5 in triple5 in selection5 in rain5 in double attack2 in misc, probably reclaimed arrows to knock off 2 min from recast.  as i dont have an arrow summoning bow yet.I've messed around with this and was procing some very interesting numbers.  wont say exactly to avoid any nerf bat, but i was very very VERY impressed.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:31 AM   #47
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You don't need 5 in double attack anymore. It's only 1 rank. But all the last abilities now require 20 in their respective lines.
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Old 11-10-2006, 04:00 PM   #48
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I am in beta and have been trying all these new wonderful AAs SMILEYOne AA that is not completely needed is 25% sprint and requires 5 AA, on the other hand its very fun and I will get it hehe. Lasts long and feels like the lil dude from The Incredibles hihi SMILEY
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:44 PM   #49
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TaleraRis wrote:You don't need 5 in double attack anymore. It's only 1 rank. But all the last abilities now require 20 in their respective lines.

They still only cost one point?
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Old 11-10-2006, 05:59 PM   #50
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Was anyone here actually able to get Double Arrow to go off last night?  I was only able to play on beta for about 2 hours, but in all that time, it never fired for me.
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Old 11-10-2006, 06:27 PM   #51
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double arrow worked last night last night, we was testing a raid zone and when i opened up with rain of arrows which critted on 5 mobs then i saw it hit again before i was eating dirt :smileytongue:
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Old 11-10-2006, 06:56 PM   #52
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"as far as it goes, this is probably how i'll go with my aa's for max dps.5 in caustic5 in focus3 in honed reflexes5 in killing instinct5 in our defensive stance to get 100% reduction in penalties.5 in precise shot5 in triple5 in selection5 in rain5 in double attack2 in misc, probably reclaimed arrows to knock off 2 min from recast.  as i dont have an arrow summoning bow yet.I've messed around with this and was procing some very interesting numbers.  wont say exactly to avoid any nerf bat, but i was very very VERY impressed. Jaiden70 RangerUnrest ServerParadigm"As a raiding ranger i will never spend any AA on defensive stance. I will take full poison line, double attack, 5 in tripple, rain, focus and killing instinct. Increasing time of honed reflexes doesnt seem to bring any noticable dps increase.

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Old 11-10-2006, 07:13 PM   #53
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TaleraRis wrote:
You don't need 5 in double attack anymore. It's only 1 rank. But all the last abilities now require 20 in their respective lines.



Any info on what that 1 rank will give on the end line abilities? And if it needs only 1 point or it's unlocked by sending several points?

BTW, can this stuff be tried out on the normal test server? I might make the effort and get on test to fumble around with the AAs... :smileyhappy:

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Old 11-10-2006, 09:20 PM   #54
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Except for the Extension change, the last lines are all as they would have been at 5 ranks with just 1 rank. But the problem is you now have to spend 20 points in the line. So it's 20 in the abilities and 1 for the final.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:30 PM   #55
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TaleraRis wrote:
Except for the Extension change, the last lines are all as they would have been at 5 ranks with just 1 rank. But the problem is you now have to spend 20 points in the line. So it's 20 in the abilities and 1 for the final.



Hmm. That doesn't seem to fit with the poison line, where you only can get 15. :smileyvery-happy: Except if they mean to let the cross-over enhancments count (Lunging Blade, Snaring Shot).

Another thing is that you basically have to go full out on lines 2 and 3 to get the last skill. Sounds kinda goofy, cause it leaves less choice. Looks like there still needs some tweaking done... if I understood it right that is. :smileyhappy:

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Old 11-10-2006, 09:45 PM   #56
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There is also currently a problem with the requirement of putting 20 points into the poison line. That problem is that there is no way to actually GET 20 points into the poison line in order to obtain the final ability. However this is a known bug at this time and will hopefully be fixed soon. I've /bugged this twice now. I spent a half hour respecing on Beta trying every possible combination of branches off poison to get to the end ability and there is just no way at the moment.Tested hook shot and it's iffy but again a known bug that should be fixed either before or shortly after launch. Double attack seems to be working now, the improvements in rain of arrows, hawk dive, focus aim, killing instinct, etc that come as a result in some of these AA's are almost good enough to make up for how much our weapons have been messed up in terms of damage. The befriend animal thing seems to be a decent addition for soloers and using both a charmed pet and hawk I could easily solo without worrying to much about aggro management. Over all I'll repeat myself and say that while there are areas that could stand some improvement, these AA's are large step forward when compared with the utter junk they were when I first got into beta.As an aside to those of you lucky enough to have Samak War Bow. Enjoy it's insane DPS while you can cuz while it wont be a traumatic drop in it's damage there is a distinct decrease in damage on Beta when compared to the numbers I've seen posted by people on live.
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Old 11-10-2006, 10:45 PM   #57
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Did they post anything in the beta forums regarding this latest change.  It looks like in typical SOE fashion they are making things more difficult to follow then they have to be.  I can't see them making the final skills only cost one point and expect that to change.   I could see them changing the final skills to work like the KoS ones where there is only one rank but it cost the max points to get it (8 points for KoS and 5 points for EoF final abilities).  I like the point system the way they originally had it.  The more variety and options to choose from the better I think.

Depending how the point system end up I'm thinking of going with this:

  • 5pts - Caustic
  • 3pst - Fetting
  • 5pts - Ancillary
  • 5pts - Focus
  • 5pts - Brutal
  • 5pts - Precise shot
  • 5pts - Tripple shot
  • 5pts - Selection
  • 5pts - Rain
  • 1 or 5pts - Double shot
  • Last 2 - 6pts debating and depends how many points Double shot ends up being.

 

 

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Old 11-10-2006, 11:17 PM   #58
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Chrychtonn, that looks a LOT like how I had mine set bofore last night's change, and I liked it very much.  Granted I only got to seriously pley with 2 or 3 other combintations, but that was by far my favorite setup.
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Old 11-11-2006, 01:06 AM   #59
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Just reposting one of my post from beta and the comments onf another ranger Twistedriddles that also shed some light on the state of the art of ours aas atm.Corwinus wrote:So, if i understand well what is still not working atm for the Ranger tree is :- No ability to get Conservation the last poison aa because of the 20 requirement poison line which is limited to 15At the moment that is the case, yes. It will probably be fixed.- The last trapping aa  Hook Arrow not workingAlso the case, yes. Will probably be fixed.- The enhancing of stream of arrows not relevant either because of the nature of that spell or because anyway that spell has been broken for some time (correct me if i am wrong there, because i never use that spell, I hate being rooted and from what i see it is worse than our auto attack)Not true. The casting time reduction on the stream of arrows AA now reduces the casting time of the arrow shots in the spell not the spell itself. And it reduces the duration. This means at max it takes 1 second per arrow and lasts for 22.5 seconds. Firing 22 arrows and getting you out of the bad effects faster. And there is still the debate between what is more relevant : improve of casting speed or recast time for the spells that get enhancements.Apparantly. Though the abilities now give reduced casting time and increased damage which is very nice, imo.Anything i missed on which we should focus the devs attention ? plz no trolling and no flames, just constructive comments,  i am humbly just trying to get a more clear pictures of issues and an idea of priorities in what to ask the devs to fix.Pathfinding is currently broke. It is supposed to give 6% run speed per point (bringing it up to a 46% run speed increase in the end. Very nice ability) it currently gives 1% per point. This will probably be fixed too. People just need to /bug it.Wanderer Corwin - Ranger 70 - Oasis
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Old 11-11-2006, 02:08 PM   #60
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"- The enhancing of stream of arrows not relevant either because of the nature of that spell or because anyway that spell has been broken for some time (correct me if i am wrong there, because i never use that spell, I hate being rooted and from what i see it is worse than our auto attack)Not true. The casting time reduction on the stream of arrows AA now reduces the casting time of the arrow shots in the spell not the spell itself. And it reduces the duration. This means at max it takes 1 second per arrow and lasts for 22.5 seconds. Firing 22 arrows and getting you out of the bad effects faster.Wanderer Corwin - Ranger 70 - Oasis"Let me be short. As long as Stream of Arrows doesnt allow for ranged autoattack, this CA is total bs and worth nothing in any form. I can prove it with many raid parses. Last night we raided Emerald Halls with 2 brigs. My record autoattack hit was 9.2k (with Longbow of Corruption and arrows from Bazkul) though str was only about 650. I could easily parse 1.4-1.8k though now i have problems with aggro and cant start fight with Focus and all big hits (will draw aggro in most cases).Tesei, ranger of Defiant, Runnyeye

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