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Old 03-14-2006, 06:58 AM   #1
klepp

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Reason i say so is first off, most of the damage increases are going to melee skills, which means the damage surely isnt going to be substantial.  Secondly the bow CA's taht are being adjusted arent even our big damage ones. Now the reason i posted this is... during my raid tonight... i consistantly parsed lower than the guild swash, the guild bruiser, and a monk recruit.Before you all start whining about how i dont know how to play my toon and i suck ect... pre LU i was on top bar only the conjuror fighting it out w/ me.I have 13 masters im using 10 of which are T7.  Im in nothing worse than t6 fabled and i have 25aa with max ranged crit aa.
 
for those rangers who say we're where we're supposed to be and we're not fugged up.... .... smoke another one.
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:04 AM   #2
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Klepp post some of your parse #'s.  We raided last nite....I was consistantly in the top 5....yeah, losing out to conjs/necs the whole time, however I was on par with the assassin and doing about100 DPS on average better than the swashie's brigands...who BTW are lvl 70...I am 66.  What level are you?  You say you running 13 masters in T7.  I've got 2....cover fire and the focus aim line I took for master 2.  I just can't fathom how you are parsing that low.  Not calling BS...what tactics you using?  Jousting at all?  Dropping your piercing dots?  What poisons?
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:06 AM   #3
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oh yea i was in top 5... but not with assassins or wizards or warlocks..... i was being beaten by Tanks and Rogues...... there is no need for debate,  it simply should not be that way.
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:08 AM   #4
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no not jousting, was on an ae'ing mob in Trial of the Awakened.  Using Adeste poisons till i run out, and i was level 69 as were they.  Firing off all my ranged CA's even w/out using any melee should keep me beyond atleast the fighters right?    I can post some of the parse info if its really neccessary but point was just that i was lower than the bruiser, monk, swash on every parse thus far  (posted this during downtime)
 
 
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:23 AM   #5
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The changes are supposed to improve our chances at soloing so I thought. In groups I'm doing okay, certainly no complaints but soloing is just pure frustration at the moment, especially in KoS with social aggro. Be nice to be able to body pull with confidence as a Ranger and avoid social aggro problems...Lvl 63 Ranger, couple of fabled, one master and lots of adept 1's.
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:27 AM   #6
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yea it seems like soloing it'll help a bit, but not in a group setting.  And in a gorup we're not supposed to be "okay" we're supposed to be t1 (top) dps.   So far, things are miiighty screwed up.   

If i wanted to parse less than a monk or a rogue.. i woulda rolled  a monk or a rogue!   I picked a dps class cuase its what i enjoy.. then they go switching around dps....   

anyhow beating a dead horse =p

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Old 03-14-2006, 07:57 AM   #7
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well on most recent parse   going 100% balls out  i out dps'd the bruiser by 13dps and the swash outdps'd me by 70dps....   ....  somethings not right /scratches head
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Old 03-14-2006, 07:57 AM   #8
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I was going to start my own post about the same thing

I keep hoping that AA would have been the equalizer ..it wasmt

 

we did our 3rd t7 raid

i finish behind wizards warlocks conj Illusionists monks brigands swashies assasins. not in that order but always the same

After 2.5 hours of raids i never once finished #1 in DPS not once.

We are a slow pulling guild so all of my ca's are up . except snipershot . Even in fights where i used sniper shot i didnt beat a monk.

What the hell!!!

Fix this garbage !! im now low man on the totem pole .. My guildmates now know im gimped beause of the parses which are broadcast during raids .

Im excluded from groups going to HOF cause i dont offer top notch DPS to complement the group. I dont have any buffs to offer them and i dont dispatch or root and my utility from poison is borderline useless .. Yay my poison proced with the mob in the red with 2 seconds left to live ... total crap.

I have been critical of this gimping from before the get go when it was on test. I thought that perhaps the AAs would compensate .. they dont!

The changes which are planed are less than inspiring . Awsome now i can get hand to hand increase so i can run in and die to AOE to crank out some extra dps.

I have a lame [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bird who when active doesnt let me use any of my stealth attacks!!!

 

The fact that all mage classes except coercres are parsing higher than me is not acceptable.

Monks are parsing higher by 100 dps . Zerkers beat me // i mean my god a tank and i was full out , i need to go all out to break even with a necro pet.

My patience is at an end .. Im lvl 70 already and the only content i have left is raids and farming AA points .

If i get no joy from raids and groups are not selecting me to go to good AA point zones ..Im done ...

I used to love this game .. my title was the loyal ......i wish i could change it to the nerfed 

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Old 03-14-2006, 08:11 AM   #9
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Draughith wrote:
Klepp post some of your parse #'s.  We raided last nite....I was consistantly in the top 5....yeah, losing out to conjs/necs the whole time, however I was on par with the assassin and doing about100 DPS on average better than the swashie's brigands...who BTW are lvl 70...I am 66.  What level are you?  You say you running 13 masters in T7.  I've got 2....cover fire and the focus aim line I took for master 2.  I just can't fathom how you are parsing that low.  Not calling BS...what tactics you using?  Jousting at all?  Dropping your piercing dots?  What poisons?
You're using every CA you've got including the melee ones... he's not.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:32 AM   #10
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nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:06 AM   #11
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lol I didn't even have to play the changes to see we probably wouldn't be on par with the others. Once I saw the changed skills & damage I figured we would be lucky to get get much more then 50dps out the changes. Sadest part is I ended up soaking another 15p into mine when they said they were increasing our damage/skills, the whole time a little voice in my head was saying "don't do it, you'll be sorry".That being said I'll still try the changes. But I have a feeling my ranger is a dead character until I can respec him to assasian. It's a good thing I have many many alts, however it's to bad I don't enjoy one of my favorites anymore.
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:21 AM   #12
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klepp wrote:
nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.
Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:29 AM   #13
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Fennir wrote:
Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?

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Old 03-14-2006, 11:05 AM   #14
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Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is
 
Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid
it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS
it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.
It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.
It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS
 
It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )
 
to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .
 
a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong
other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)
 
 
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:01 PM   #15
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Fennir wrote:

klepp wrote:
nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.
Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?

A lot of Rangers really very badly need to listen to this chap, or flat out roll a different class.

If you aren't using all your CAs, don't report your dsp. Certainly don't report your dps in comparison with somebody else who is using all their CAs.... you can be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure the Assassins, Swashbucklers and Brigands on your raid are using all their CAs.

Absolutely the devs broke the Ranger class with lu20, but regarless of what comes with the next update Rangers will have to get used to working for their dps.

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Old 03-14-2006, 03:19 PM   #16
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umm writer cal.... you guys  MUST be clueless.   No one said anything about wehre we were Pre LU20.... i mean yea that was nice but i think everyone knows we're not going back to that.  However, without some more serious re working, the utility/soloablity we had is far down if not gone... and our dps is more like 1/2'd  ...   So.. if your ok w/ that fine... but im not.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:23 PM   #17
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again ... why not... pre lu20 using nothing but ranged i was always top or 2nd/3rd on the dps list.. ALWAYS. and spending a few plat a night that sounded about right to me.    Its part of the ranger fluff.  Christ how often do you hear your raid leaders say "get int ehre and melee rangers"   they dont, cause its a perk to bringing a ranger to a raid, damage from the outside.  Same reason many rangers chose to wear crafted, it has no resists (yet) and they were fine w/ that becuase they were NEVER in ae range.   And if you think using some melee arts that do an 8th of the damage of most bow ca's is gonna fix us, your just looiking for and excuse to suck some sony butt cause on non ae raid mobs... if i melee... guess who still isnt where he's supposed to be.    I know i know i must suck, so what id love is to group w/ one of you's  maybe onthe same server.. then hear your tune when the parser shows the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing.
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Old 03-14-2006, 04:55 PM   #18
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KannaWhoopass wrote:
Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is
 
Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid
it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS
it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.
It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.
It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS
 
It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )
 
to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .
 
a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong
other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)
 
 

The only standards that I know of to which SoE is tuning rangers is that we are to be tier 1 damage, but not number 1 in damage.  After that, I haven't seen any dev comments concerning more specifically what their idea for ranger damage is.  Old-school rangers know that the only way we ever did significant damage before balance was broken in LU13 was by using a combination of heavy-hitting ranged arts and than all of our big-dmg melee arts until our big-dmg ranged arts cycled up.  This was on raids and in groups.  I believe we won't be in such a dire shape as we were pre-LU13 after LU21, but we won't be ridiculous like we were after LU13.
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Old 03-14-2006, 05:01 PM   #19
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Your insane dps was from a screwy game mechanic, soe knocked the crud out of you with the nerf bat without compensation, a fix is incoming, be patient you'll be brought up soon.
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Old 03-14-2006, 06:15 PM   #20
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I am VERY optimistic about the upcomming changes. Being easier to solo, doing more damage, having MANY of our abilities increased, giving focus fire a 1 min recast, increasing bow attacks by 33%.With focus fire and the auto ranged attack being increased I am overjoyed, I can keep around 600-700 dps with my auto attack with focus fire (great ability when your longshank, and ranged abilitys are in refresh) with this being redone, I forsee 1k dps while this ability is being used. For those who dont know, it only lasts 10 seconds so its not like its constant.What has been posted has been at 25, and 32 str with the screenshots in the ranger pics. So, those master 1's will be similar to app 1's to most rangers out there. Thus there should be near double the damage advertised.I can actually see SoE pulling some of these abilities back due to overpoweredness IMO.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:03 PM   #21
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I know it is hard to be patient in times like these. And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience SMILEY. We will never be back to where we were pre-LU-20. Let me repeat - never. Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed. We are going to have to use all of our combat CAs now and I, for one, like the new style. Fighting is a much more active role for me now. Before LU-20 I could turn on auto-attack and go AFK and still parse in the top of my group and raids due to all the procs going off like fireworks. Now my class takes skill, attention, and thought to play to maximize DPS as all other DPS classes should.

The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this.

I for one am glad it has not taken SOE a year to address our deficiencies. I know some of you might say that we should never be in this situation and that being glad for that is like being glad that they did not kick me in the face when I was down. At the end of the day, we all play our Rangers for different reasons as another post pointed out. These changes will make alot of people sit back and re-evaluate why they play there Ranger. I, for one, am a lifetime Ranger - just can't see myself playing any other class. Good, bad, gimped, uber (usually gimpedSMILEY )  - I will always be a Ranger.

Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there.

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Old 03-14-2006, 08:18 PM   #22
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"And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience " - I thought there was a huge conspirasy where SoE were gods among ants? Why should gods wait on us ants? /sarcsm."Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed." -I believe that those days are still among us, with the recent changes in focus fire. And I have a feeling they will change stream of arrows."The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this." I believe that we are still t1 dps even with the changes that have gone through, it just takes a good machine, extreeme performance and lots of mashing and concentration."Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there."  To be as cruel AS I CAN to other people. I mean think about the tactics we use. "Sneaks up behind bentgate, draws back my bowstring and shoots him in the back (backshot), continues shooting him while he comes screaming forward with his daggers (silly ranger left his bow on his horse). Waits for bent gate to get close then kicks him in the junk (cheapshot) goes behind him and stabs him in the back afew times (longshank/direblade), bent gate turns around - shoots him in the eye (point blank shot), pulls the arrow out (arrow rip)..- Typical fight.I mean THINK for a second on what rangers really do, in no way are we nice people or gracefull. We live in tree's, we are not honorable. Why do you think we live in trees anyways? Cause we got kicked out of town SMILEY Hell atleast assassins have the decentcy to stay in melee combat.
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Old 03-14-2006, 08:47 PM   #23
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My only real concern is, and this is for the scout class, if after everything is all said and done, for scouts to be T1 dps we have to use rare arrows and poisons (pay for our dps), which isnt a small amount of money, what perks do we get from it. If it cant be highest dps fine, but there should be something for being the most expensive class to play!
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Old 03-14-2006, 09:21 PM   #24
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LoreLady wrote:"And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience " - I thought there was a huge conspirasy where SoE were gods among ants? Why should gods wait on us ants? /sarcsm."Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed." -I believe that those days are still among us, with the recent changes in focus fire. And I have a feeling they will change stream of arrows."The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this." I believe that we are still t1 dps even with the changes that have gone through, it just takes a good machine, extreeme performance and lots of mashing and concentration."Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there."  To be as cruel AS I CAN to other people. I mean think about the tactics we use. "Sneaks up behind bentgate, draws back my bowstring and shoots him in the back (backshot), continues shooting him while he comes screaming forward with his daggers (silly ranger left his bow on his horse). Waits for bent gate to get close then kicks him in the junk (cheapshot) goes behind him and stabs him in the back afew times (longshank/direblade), bent gate turns around - shoots him in the eye (point blank shot), pulls the arrow out (arrow rip)..- Typical fight.I mean THINK for a second on what rangers really do, in no way are we nice people or gracefull. We live in tree's, we are not honorable. Why do you think we live in trees anyways? Cause we got kicked out of town SMILEY Hell atleast assassins have the decentcy to stay in melee combat.

Yes LoreLady, my point exactly - I love the silly ranger dance and missed it after the CU. I also love your cheapshot analogy - kicking him in the family jewels! SMILEY  I play a Ranger for all of those skills it takes. Plus, I have played a couple of other classes and kept running off cliffs to my death...lol. Seriously, until you lose track, invis, and safefall you have no idea how great those skills are.

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Old 03-14-2006, 10:18 PM   #25
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God, I'm ashamed to be a ranger, you guys are worse than the sorceror's as of late.

Why don't instead of speculating and doomsaying we, I don't know, maybe wait for the changes to go live? Or would that make too much sense.

From just seeing the changes I know we will be right where we should be.

Get a Grip and Learn to play your class and you'll be T1 Dps easily.

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Old 03-14-2006, 10:20 PM   #26
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what do u know about ranger khalan u nooblet if im not doing 1200 dps while i'm afk then screw this class AND YOU
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:32 PM   #27
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Fennir wrote:what do u know about ranger khalan u nooblet if im not doing 1200 dps while i'm afk then screw this class AND YOU

but omg It shouldn't take skill or effort to be t1 dps, we're rangers! it should just be automatic. Why Should we have to use every skill we have to be T1, using skills is for losers.

Infact they should replace all our skills with a single ability called "Tier 1" and when we press it we automatically do 1500dps!!11on3!!

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Old 03-14-2006, 10:33 PM   #28
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but part of my fluff is that i only need half my skillsDONT TAKE AWAY MY FLUFF
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Old 03-14-2006, 10:34 PM   #29
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I am in top dps tier on every raid mob where melee have to joust, that's more than enough for me SMILEY ( and it seems like every other named raid has a bad ae these days).
That and seeing the melee ( bruisers/monks/assassins and co) frustration each time they get caught in the AE while I am peacefully shooting the mob from outside its range....

As for casters I sure wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Did you notice that for every expansion auto attacks damage increas by more than 75% when skills increase at best by 50%, if not less ?

That does not bode well for casters that only rely on skills for their damage ( for classes like monks and berserkers the auto attack damage is now the main part of their damage..)

Message Edited by Ail on 03-14-200609:40 AM

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Old 03-14-2006, 10:47 PM   #30
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/agree with Tobias and Khalan

Beyond that, this thread isn't really worth a response. Roll a necro.

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