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Old 03-08-2006, 04:30 AM   #61
Evolution8

 
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These changes look perfect. Grizzfazzle bow should be around 107 damage rating so ranger bow melee will go up significantly. Focus aim is such a beautiful spell thats always over looked. I have focus aim m1 and that combined with whatever haste we get from group and honed reflexes killer instinct its possible to get 4 melee arrows off that hit for very nice numbers. At 68 using grizzfazzle and new summoned arrows i hit for 1200-1900 non crit. Thats only 80.9 rating.Just need them to make our reclaimed arrows (adamantite) lvl 60 rather then 50 :smileymad:Yea at raids the other night our assasin was doing around 1100 on non ae'ing mobs where i would max out at 800 or so. But throw an ae in and they drop to 600.Just wait to see how these work out, if they arent enough im sure you will all come back here and nag till they upgrade more, so no worries.
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Old 03-08-2006, 04:58 AM   #62
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Personally, I don't share the enthusiasm that some of you for these changes nor do I believe they will even come close to balancing us with respect to assassins.

These changes appear to be focused almost exclusively at the soloing ranger.  I see nothing in them that will materially change our dps in groups and especially raids when compared to our assassin bretheren.  The difference in dps between rangers and assassins on raids is currently huge.  Generally on raids the assassins out-dps rangers by between 50% and 100%.  It isn't even close.  Looking at these "fixes", that isn't going to change much.  In fact, unless something changes significantly, the amount by which assassins out-dps rangers will continue to grow with every addidtional AA that assassins get.

Now don't get me wrong, for those rangers who like to solo, I'm happy for you.  But I sure hope that there is more to come in the way of changes to our CAs that is going to make up for the current gross disparity in dps between rangers and assassins.

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:28 AM   #63
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What raids are you doing where your assasin is 100% more dps then you.The only change thats being made that really applies more to soloing is the root.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:49 AM   #64
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While these changes are nice for solo I personally don't think they're going to get you even close to an Assassin in raid or group. We'll have to wait and see I suppose. There's fundamental problems with Ranger dps in best case situations, and I don't see anything fundamental being changed here.

I was expecting to hear your CAs had been raised by 15% across the board or something; which is what I think is missing. I think you're t2 at the moment... no you aren't t3, a crap ranger puts out crap damage in the same way a crap Rogue does.... and I figure that warrants a 15% boost at least. Actually I think it should be more like 20% across the board.

*shrug* The changes may prove things different, and there may well be more changes to come, this may be the first batch. I still think we're looking at a butt load of Rangers betraying to Assassin first chance they get.

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:58 AM   #65
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the aim line spell change is awesome guys , 48% chance to crit is a lot , yes 10seconds is not long but recast only 1min
 
add that 48% chance to your aa , your guaranteed to crit or almost , hell at rank4 ranged crit atm , i land criticals pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] often , every 2-3shots ...
 
Come on lets land a critical sniper with that buff on :smileyvery-happy: , highest is 10k crit on sniper atm , cant wait to test)
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:29 AM   #66
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Carnagh you're right and we'll have to wait and see.  The one part that doesn't show in the changes listed here is the increase in ranged auto attack damage.  They said that was being increase about 33% which will add to these changes also.  Especially if they fix arrows to the appropriate teirs.

Right now Adamantine and Indium arrows do the same damage since both are listed as L50 ammo and grey out at L65.  Fixing Adamantine arrows to be L60 ammo like they should be will increase their damage and help also.

 

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Old 03-08-2006, 08:50 AM   #67
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From what I've been experiencing, my raid DPS isnt the issue I still do good damage (not as good as the conj's now though!) but I am satisified with that, and these new changes look like they will help soloing the most, with some added damage for groups and raids.  Soloing was the area I was having a big problem, so with the dmg + root and the increased damage overall, I really get a good feeling that these changes will allow me to solo with my bow regularly now against somewhat decent mobs...we will see when it goes live but I am really optimistic at this point.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:09 AM   #68
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Look at the damage on assassin CAs.

Look at the cast time on their CAs.

Look at the recast timers on their CAs.

Consider that assassins get the same AAs that we get.

Then try to tell me that a 33% increase to bow autoattack damage and a change to a 10 second buff will make up the difference.

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Old 03-08-2006, 04:55 PM   #69
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ChaosUndivided wrote:

Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.

Agreed, you guys are whining way to much, these changes are awesome, Don't forget the 33% Boost to bow DPS.

You guys need to stop thinking we will be uber gods and start being more reasonable.


Couldn't agree more. I don't need to be a 'DPS God' I just want to be viable again. Looking forward to these changes. Thanks for the updates Fennir.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:35 PM   #70
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Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]? our big bomb is on a 15 minute timer for 7k with good strength buffs, even with concealment we have to wait for our bigger back stabs to be up to be used on a 7 second timer with max damage of 900 per hit round about on a successful hit, so without assassinate being up, we might be able to do around 3-4k damage 5k if our other big hit is up every i think 60 seconds, plus we have to wait on the recast timers of these back hits combined with waiting for concealment to be up.  Everything i'm seeing is going to raise the ranger up above assassins when we should be compareable, i guess i'll wait another 7 updates before they realize there's 2 predator classes.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:42 PM   #71
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CrimsonValerian wrote:
Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]? our big bomb is on a 15 minute timer for 7k with good strength buffs, even with concealment we have to wait for our bigger back stabs to be up to be used on a 7 second timer with max damage of 900 per hit round about on a successful hit, so without assassinate being up, we might be able to do around 3-4k damage 5k if our other big hit is up every i think 60 seconds, plus we have to wait on the recast timers of these back hits combined with waiting for concealment to be up.  Everything i'm seeing is going to raise the ranger up above assassins when we should be compareable, i guess i'll wait another 7 updates before they realize there's 2 predator classes.

Let me get this right, you are crying for a fix to correct a problem that isn't even present?  A little premature don't you think?

And our Sniper Shot is on a 15 min timer, just like your Assassinate.  Oh and guess what, Sniper's doesn't get upgraded, like Assassinate does, ever.  And for alot of Assassins it is a perfectly viable option to take the STR AA line, thereby reducing it to a 7.5 min recast.

You crying that we are overpowered, when Assassins are currently doing more dps just makes you look foolish.

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Old 03-08-2006, 05:45 PM   #72
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CrimsonValerian wrote:
Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]?
10k every 60 seconds? i wish. unless they changed sniper fire from the long recast time but i very much doubt that.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:52 PM   #73
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This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. 

On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.

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Old 03-08-2006, 06:19 PM   #74
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Anyone know if the dam increase/recast changes are for all the CA's in the lines or just the CA's that where stated?

My Ranger is only lvl 26 atm and it would be nice to know I will be getting some love :smileytongue:

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Old 03-08-2006, 06:19 PM   #75
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CrimsonValerian wrote:

This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. 

On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.


you  do now .. i wouldnt bother with that ..i can do more than 10K damage in 7.5 min with other AA's i am sure... worry about how these changes ballance out with Asassins when they are actually live.Sony collects a vast amount of data, they noted from that data that Ranger CA's arent up there with Assassin CA's.  They made a few tweaks.  I would expect the few tweaks were calculated to put the Ranger numbers in the same area as assassin numbers.. and probably compared a little to the other T1 DPS classes.. they have the real correct data and know how much needs to be changed.
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:39 PM   #76
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to me this looks like a first step .....

 

I am not supper impressed with the changes, but to me it looks like the dev are looking at a slow inch the class up staged approch...

 

more of a lets do these things ... wait watch ... add a little more ... little more ... ok there we are ... they back in T1 ....

 

that is what i get out of this .. it is a first step in a series so that they do not go over the top again in one jump ... but approach the target slowly and carefully  ... you know they got to be tired this also and just want to get it fixed once and for all so they can move on to other things...

 

So i suggest we say thank you for the changes ... we will work with them ... provide feedback to the dev so they can do the next round in this process to get us back to Tier 1

 

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:02 PM   #77
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CrimsonValerian wrote:

This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. 

On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.


This is indeed NOT the proposed change, please do a little reasearch before you make assumptions.  The Focus Fire line (a 10 sec attack buff) is having its re-use timer reduced from 5 mins to 1 min.  That is the what's changing.  And yes, the final AA ability of the STR line allows any CA with a 2 min or greater reuse timer to be reduced by 50% while increasing the damage by 10%.  The problem here is that every other ability in the line is specifically suited for melee combat (read Assassin) as opposed to ranged (Ranger).

As for being comparable between predator classes, currently you have the slight edge, and these minor changes are hopefully designed to level things out.  You are already crying that Rangers are going to be far and away superior to Assassins.

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:28 PM   #78
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CrimsonValerian wrote:

why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable? 


A.  The tweaks being made to Rangers are designed to make both classes comparable.

B.  This is the wrong forum to discuss Assassin issues.

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:54 PM   #79
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----------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not.  Guess you don't know as much about rangers as you think.

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Old 03-08-2006, 08:19 PM   #80
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Oh I'm grateful for these changes. I just would have hoped for a couple more seconds on the root.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:40 PM   #81
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Racmoor wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'm not.  Guess you don't know as much about rangers as you think.

Tobi

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Me either...any other general assumptions?
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:41 PM   #82
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Sirlutt wrote:
Sony collects a vast amount of data, they noted from that data that Ranger CA's arent up there with Assassin CA's.  They made a few tweaks.  I would expect the few tweaks were calculated to put the Ranger numbers in the same area as assassin numbers.. and probably compared a little to the other T1 DPS classes.. they have the real correct data and know how much needs to be changed.

  I just hope its not the same data they used pre lu20   :smileyvery-happy:
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:09 PM   #83
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Evolution890 wrote:What raids are you doing where your assasin is 100% more dps then you.The only change thats being made that really applies more to soloing is the root.

You didn't quote so I don't know who this is directed to. However, I posted and I believe Fennir was quoting that an Assassin in our guild is DPSING 100 more than me... not percent. 100 points. At times, I was doing better than him. At times, he was doing better than me.The downside to it is that I was looking at this level. He's a 61 assassin and I noted this in Courts when I was 63. So yes, they are posting higher numbers than we are, but it's so subjective. His armor. My armor. Quality of spells.. levels and now which AA's were taken. All of this is factors in the DPS we do. It is really hard to compare classes by parses.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:02 PM   #84
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Still a bit confused on this topic though I guess that is par since I am a confused Ranger (Dark Elf :smileywinkSMILEY. Are these changes set for LU 21 or are they going to be activated sooner?
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:20 PM   #85
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Thanks for the update, Tobias. Good to see some information on these.

I'd hoped for more than 4 seconds but it's better than nothing. Very glad to see the boost to crit chance on Focus Fire, it'll actually be a worthwhile buff now. Still wish it lasted a bit longer than 10 seconds but oh well.

Those of you extrapolating your own experience into "all rangers have X problem in Y situation" need to check yourselves. Just b/c you're having a problem doesn't mean the class is broken.

Soloing should be easier, that's great to see. Damage will be coming up a bit, also nice. I'll wait to assess the results live before I can comment much further. But suffice to say, there are too many ppl here who want the whole world and won't ever be content with only useful fixes to our CAs and a boost to our overall damage.

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Old 03-09-2006, 05:25 AM   #86
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I'm just glad we can move Focus Fire from "The most worthless skill in existance" to the "Use during normal combat" column.  The damage boosts will be what I was personally looking for and the root is just icing on the cake.  ( I don't have problems soloing )  Though I'd still like to see the auto-attack numbers for the new bow ratios.Overall good stuff here, kudos to the devs for the fast turn around on this situation.  It could have been far worse.
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Old 03-09-2006, 02:37 PM   #87
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I'm very disappointed in these changes.  I don't know why some people are happy about them.  The overall effect is not much, our dps is very slightly increased (I foresee monks/bruisers easily outdpsing us, maybe even zerkers and furys).  I don't think our root will be effective.  At 4 seconds it's just enough to get off one CA (definately not 2) and if we are to succesfully get that one CA off we will most likely still be in range to get attacked by melee weapons. *sigh* failed attempt by the devs imo, we not only need a dps improvement, but we need a way to use our bows more than just 5% of the time when we aren't in groups.If a mage can cast from anywhere, if other scouts can use their highest dps abilities at all times, why can't we?Not even gonna mention where we stand on dps against some fighter classesSMILEY
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Old 03-09-2006, 03:38 PM   #88
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the devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute

You are way off.

It increases the crit chance by 48% So if you have 1% chance to crit, this will boost our chance to 1.48%

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Old 03-09-2006, 04:50 PM   #89
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z3oslo wrote:


the devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute

You are way off.

It increases the crit chance by 48% So if you have 1% chance to crit, this will boost our chance to 1.48%


hmm. well, it's not that clear. it can mean either A) tune up base crit chance by 48%, which will lead to what you said (and would suck) or B) adds 48% chance to crit, which would be much preferred.
so, how is "increases ranged crit chance by 48%" to be read? any devs that could clear this up? or rangers on test?
 
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Old 03-09-2006, 05:16 PM   #90
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It will add to the base prosent to crit, which is very low. Base chance is probably only 2% or so, though i havent checked.

This is how i read it. Its not like we will get nearly 100% chance to crit with the aa line. No way.

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