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Old 03-04-2006, 12:08 AM   #1
Lockeye

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In the next test server updates, you'll see some of the changes that we're making made for Rangers. I analyzed DPS data from Rangers throughout all the servers and pinpointed specific problem areas.
 
-Some of the Ranger melee and ranged combat arts were dealing less damage than what an Assassin would deal. This was never addressed in the past largely because their proc damage overshadowed any deficiencies in the actual combat arts damage. They are now increased to match the damage performance of an Assassin. The difference remains that Rangers have more ranged combat arts than Assassins, so they do have more combat arts that require slightly more casting time than Assassins.
 
-Most classes don't have ranged autoattack unless they are pulling. Rangers are an exception because of how often they use ranged combat arts will force them to use their ranged autoattack much more often. Damage rating across all ranged weapons is increased by 33% to be in line with the damage rating offered by 2-handed weapons. Previously their average damage rating was below that of a 1-handed weapon.
 
-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:12 AM   #2
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Thank you Lockeye, that is great news.  Thanks for coming here and letting the community know, as we have been slightyly anxious
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:12 AM   #3
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*blinks*

You mean the developers actually DO read and respond?

whoa.

This is great news to me, as a soloer!

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:13 AM   #4
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Jared, you are my new best friend.:smileyvery-happy:
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:13 AM   #5
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Thanks for the post, and for taking a closer look at the class balance.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:13 AM   #6
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Sounds good at first blush.  Thanks.  Looking forward to it going live!
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:16 AM   #7
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Excellent news.  Thanks for talking to us about it, Lockeye.  It sounds like you're being careful to preserve the concept of the ranger that's dear to our hearts.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:16 AM   #8
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Thank you thank you thank you. We have another stun to use for solo.
 
/applaud
 
and more appropriate melee to ranged attacks and dammage. Well put, just well put.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:16 AM   #9
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Lockeye wrote:
In the next test server updates, you'll see some of the changes that we're making made for Rangers. I analyzed DPS data from Rangers throughout all the servers and pinpointed specific problem areas.
 
-Some of the Ranger melee and ranged combat arts were dealing less damage than what an Assassin would deal. This was never addressed in the past largely because their proc damage overshadowed any deficiencies in the actual combat arts damage. They are now increased to match the damage performance of an Assassin. The difference remains that Rangers have more ranged combat arts than Assassins, so they do have more combat arts that require slightly more casting time than Assassins.
 
-Most classes don't have ranged autoattack unless they are pulling. Rangers are an exception because of how often they use ranged combat arts will force them to use their ranged autoattack much more often. Damage rating across all ranged weapons is increased by 33% to be in line with the damage rating offered by 2-handed weapons. Previously their average damage rating was below that of a 1-handed weapon.
 
-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.

oh my god .. i love you ..I'll be testing this.. and if it works like your talkin .. reactivating my account..
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:17 AM   #10
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Thanks for the update. It's always good to see a designer communicating with the end users.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:18 AM   #11
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I think I'm going to cry...
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:21 AM   #12
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Lockeye, I love you.  If I could bear children (male) I would offer you the first born.  This is absolutely what rangers were looking for in this game...not the changes per say but communication.

I applaud your breaching the wall that developed around the Dev's and the Players (and believe me...the wall is there).  This is very encouraging, and I am interested in testing it out.  Please accept my apologies for being a pain in the moderators backside.

However, remember this...I am sure you have heard it...

An ounce of prevention is something something something....

Remember that when players that are normally nice, non trouble making posters go buck wild for no "apparent" reason...like me.

Peace Health and Happiness

Saihung

p.s. Utility...utility...we need utility

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:21 AM   #13
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Ok, one other question. Did they  look at the riposte, pary and block problems as well?
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:26 AM   #14
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Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.
I trust by short timers it will mean that we will have time to back off and actually bows Ca's... All in all, looks good to me :smileywink:We shall see
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:26 AM   #15
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on another note Lockeye .. do you think you guys could look at the cost or arrows ?  .. if auto attack is supposed to play a decent part in our damage its not very fair that we have to pay large sums of money for that damage... our summoned arrows do significantly less damage than store bought, and on top of that we need to buy poisons to keep our DPS up.  Other DPS classes dont have these requirements. As you noted above, alot of our arts are ranged and as such each time we use them, or auto attack we consume arrows.  Using tier relevent arrows is really expensive considering we can go through 10+ stacks a night.  Maybe our summoned arrows can be bumped to be inline with the store bought arrows ?
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:29 AM   #16
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i'm grinning from ear to ear, this is awesome news
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:29 AM   #17
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From all that was said it sounds like the Ranger class was an after thought when it was created.  I can understand that you might not have looked at Ranged autoattack when only one class uses it.  The CA issues makes me wonder how long our CA's have been less then our Pred counterparts.  Was a damage reduction done in LU 13 counter the increase of proc damage?  If so cool, but I'm not so sure.  The inclusion of the root was much needed and will be appreciated by the class I'm sure.  I'm of the opinion that it's obvious that a ranged class needs some way to escape from melee to range especially when you balance the majority of our CA's for ranged combat (mages where granted this ability because of their armour class).  In the end what's past is past and if these changes work out the way everyone (SOE, you, me, the ranger community) hopes they do.  The game will be a much more enjoyable experience for those involved. 

 

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:30 AM   #18
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Lockeye thank you very much for giving us some hope.  These look like great changes that will help alot.  Specifically giving us a short term root to allow a little more ranged attacks while solo. 

Is there any chance at all that Thorny Trap could be looked at and changed back to how it was ?  I've played around alot with it and the area of effect seems to be the same as it was before.  But the trigger point has been made so small it has really reduced the effectiveness of this very fun skill.  I don't mind the new graphic for the trap but if it is possible to have the trigger point looked at and returned to what it was that would be awesome.

 

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:33 AM   #19
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Lockeye wrote:
In the next test server updates, you'll see some of the changes that we're making made for Rangers. I analyzed DPS data from Rangers throughout all the servers and pinpointed specific problem areas.
 
-Some of the Ranger melee and ranged combat arts were dealing less damage than what an Assassin would deal. This was never addressed in the past largely because their proc damage overshadowed any deficiencies in the actual combat arts damage. They are now increased to match the damage performance of an Assassin. The difference remains that Rangers have more ranged combat arts than Assassins, so they do have more combat arts that require slightly more casting time than Assassins.
 
-Most classes don't have ranged autoattack unless they are pulling. Rangers are an exception because of how often they use ranged combat arts will force them to use their ranged autoattack much more often. Damage rating across all ranged weapons is increased by 33% to be in line with the damage rating offered by 2-handed weapons. Previously their average damage rating was below that of a 1-handed weapon.
 
-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.

Lockeye,

Is the Lunge line going to be a full duration root on ^ mobs? Right now ^ solo mobs are one of our biggest challenges when soloing because Cheap shot only stuns for 2 seconds against them instead of the full 6 seconds that it stuns on normal solo mobs.

And thanks for the heads up on the changes coming.

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:35 AM   #20
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we're not worthy!!!
we're not worthy!!!
we're not worthy!!!
 
/grovel
/grovel
/grovel
 
soe dev's step up to the plate and prove me wrong...i feel like penny arcade when they got 1200 krispy kreme donuts :smileyvery-happy:
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:35 AM   #21
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Root root root for the home team!The cost of arrows (good arrows) could be substantially lower if CRAFTED arrows made expotentially more per combine/fuel than currently.  The cost of poisons could also be substantially lowered if CRAFTED poisons made more per combine/fuel (based on the T7 scheme).  Making the CRAFTED cost less to make would also preserve a small shred of crafter importance while providing a solution to the cost of being a ranger.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:37 AM   #22
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This is excellant

Please do the same analysis for wizards

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:37 AM   #23
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I think I am going to start up my ranger again.  Wow thanks Lockeye.  Very excited to see these updates.

 

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Old 03-04-2006, 12:39 AM   #24
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Lockeye, I cannont thank you enough not only for the changes but also for the communication, this is excellent news.
 
Thank you very much.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:39 AM   #25
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great news, is there any chance you can look at the arrow quantity for our reclaimed arrows? If its right what you say we will be using auto ranged a lot more so going to burn through more arrows than what we are at present
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:40 AM   #26
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Devs who help rangers > all.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:40 AM   #27
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So happy/cry
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:41 AM   #28
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:43 AM   #29
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Rijacki wrote:Root root root for the home team!The cost of arrows (good arrows) could be substantially lower if CRAFTED arrows made expotentially more per combine/fuel than currently.  The cost of poisons could also be substantially lowered if CRAFTED poisons made more per combine/fuel (based on the T7 scheme).  Making the CRAFTED cost less to make would also preserve a small shred of crafter importance while providing a solution to the cost of being a ranger.

There was a post a few days ago from some dev-ish type person talking about how crafted arrows are going to be made more worthwhile. I'd hope that would be part of a general "revamp all 20-60 tradeskills to match 1-20 and 60-70" patch, and part of that would be to make arrows in a single combine. I know I gave up trying to make my own after realizing that it takes like 10 combines (or whatever) to make 25 arrows. Thanks, I'll just buy em.
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Old 03-04-2006, 12:44 AM   #30
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Jared just got a booty call from every ranger in the game = )! Hey whats up handsome =P.
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