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Old 02-16-2006, 10:39 AM   #151
JoeMaxx

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Hi Im a WIZ, lev 52 and a guardian lev 48, Im not going to flam or pour salt into your wounds. In truth i feel for you guys. I sort of liked that the Ranger class in EQ2 was so strong. In EQ1 the ranger was a joke. You know RANGER DOWN heh. So I was glad to see the Ranger doing so well. That being said I want you to know that your class will survive this nurf. It's not as bad as it could be. Remember I play a guardian so I know how bad it can be. The truth is as a Wiz I felt that my DPS was not up to the class description and that the ranger class was overpowering. I didn't want the Ranger nerfed I wanted some of what you had. But SOE has there own way of doing things. So I guess what I'm saying is hang in there and don't quite because of one nurf. Wait it out and see what happens. I think you'll find that the Ranger will still be in the top 2 or 3 in DPS. GOOD LUCK to you all and I'll see you in game. Oh and don't worry I'm sure my WIZ will be next on the nerf list.
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Old 02-16-2006, 10:52 AM   #152
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Well I can't say that I was surprised that Sony brought your damage down, but I was at the extent to which they did.  I sincerely hope that you get a bump back up to where you should be, and soon.  Best of luck, and know that Assassin's are behind you.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:09 AM   #153
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I created a spreadsheet with a mathematical model of ranger damage and how the proc change will affect us.  See my post here for the discussion and a link from which you can download the spreadsheet and play with the numbers.
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Old 02-16-2006, 11:45 AM   #154
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Soooo, with what sounds like a very disappointing change to rangers coming in KoS, I may happen to have a lvl 60 ranger for sale.... :0) He comes equipped with 22, or maybe 23 fabled items all t5 or t6 with quite a few masters. Not that people will want to be playing him as he may be getting extremely nerfed. Thanks sony, I almost forgot what life was like befor LU13.
Yours truly, and loyal ranger since day one.
 
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Old 02-16-2006, 03:57 PM   #155
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Newest impressions from Beta:they changed some of our AAs to lower reuse timers, they gave us a melee-hurricane-until-canceled-buff, they gave us a buff that would debuff the enemies casting and combat skills by 50 points FOR 10 SECONDS WHEN WE GET HIT.they didnt fix toxic expertise (still doesnt proc on our rarely procing intial poison hit)they didnt fix point blank shot (still 5-5m and not usable therefore)for ppl without AA: youre still [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]edSummary:We are not Tier1 DPS. With AAs we can tweak up a little, but still are pretty far away from the rest of the T1. We pay to be able to keep up with Tier1 ? shouldnt we be Number1 Tier1 because of having to pay and the least utility ? We are not Tier1, even if we pay.
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Old 02-16-2006, 04:10 PM   #156
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I've rangered since tabletop and rangered with SOE since EQ1. This is the first time I've thought about forgetting it. Until recently, these were polite and self-disciplined forums - the adolescent gloating of trollers and those who would rather see another class hit than improvements made to their own are too much to stomach.

I've no problem with a reduction in our DPS. I accept that we shouldn't be top of the DPS tree. To pull us down to the mid-table however, does fundamentally alter our role. Would one of the trolls, with their power-feeding, or their Call of the Hero or their group buffs explain exactly what utility rangers bring to the highe end game apart from damage? Pathfinding? Find me someone without a horse or a carpet. Tracking? Find me someone who doesn't navigate faster using EQMap. Evac? The last evac I got in group was from a wizard (who can also power-feed a power-bled tank or healer). Rangers had one utility: damage.

If the figures and descriptions are correct, the reason to play now is either attachment to the RP idea of a ranger - or because some of us who have levelled this far really haven't the time to level another class (not all of us can invest hours and hours and hours a day - took me well over a year to hit 60).

Before LU13 we were a class that were a labour of love to play. Many found it hard to get groups as we brought no utility and damage was low. LU13 changed that - and overpowered us. I have no problem with a downards adjustment in our damage to bring us into line. But the SOE solution? Take us back. How mad for poisons not to proc off each arrow? If you just think about it it makes no sense. Poison would be on the arrow, not on some mystical set of ideas that constitute a combat art. But... A proc "nerf" to rangers is the most cost-efficient (in terms of Dev time) way of balancing what they (and other vocal classes) regard as a problem.

As someone who has always been of the Jay school of thought on class and development, I can honestly say this is the first time I have seriously thought about retiring my main. I have no intention of being a burden on the group or the class brought along because guildmates/raidmates want me to feel included (heh, the latter will take a cooler, colder look at it anyway and organise their groups accordingly - when you die with a single hit as a ranger or a wizard, why bring the ranged damage class without utility and that parses at T3 [and every raid I have been on has had someone parsing the damage]?). I have no melee ability to speak of for the up-close and personal fights so soloing gets even harder. I am assuming that the SK taunt issue, which was raised so many months ago, will get an adjustment long before a "re-fix" of rangers... That has been months - I don't see SOE responding to us for a very long time.

I am trying - but it is hard to see this as anything other than a breaking "fix" rather than a reasonable adjustment. And live is only days away.

Ker

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Old 02-16-2006, 04:10 PM   #157
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lol. my level 60 ranger is hitting the total of 300 dps solo vs lv 55 solo mobs. takes me 20 sec to kill one. (without snipers, but including triple precise etc. even storm of arrows)speechless :smileymad:

Message Edited by Memory01 on 02-16-200603:13 AM

Message Edited by Memory01 on 02-16-200603:13 AM

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Old 02-16-2006, 04:52 PM   #158
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Memory01 wrote:
lol. my level 60 ranger is hitting the total of 300 dps solo vs lv 55 solo mobs. takes me 20 sec to kill one. (without snipers, but including triple precise etc. even storm of arrows)speechless :smileymad:

Message Edited by Memory01 on 02-16-200603:13 AM

Message Edited by Memory01 on 02-16-200603:13 AM


If this is the state of rangers currently on beta than come Tuesday SoE are going to have a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] load of [Removed for Content] off rangers on their hands.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:02 PM   #159
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BtilTheMage wrote:
"Btil: If you don't wish to see people post statements like that, maybe you should avoid the one forum that you have seriously lost any credibility with. You have done more damage to your class, with your words, than any dev. Every nerf that hits your class will just make me think "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy"."
 
I think you missed the post where I said that I think this nerf is too much.  Anyhow, this guy has been starting new threads in the spell/combat forums trying to flame Wizards.  Requesting for him to stop isn't a bad thing.  Hate me if you will, but at least I don't open new threads to argue. Everything I have posted is reactive, you can search if you want.

The 50 posts that you preceded that one with saying we needed nerfed because "blah blah blah" already did the damage. The fact that you NOW think this is to much does nothing to sway me. You helped get the ball rolling and anyone who has played this game long enough knows that the ball doesn't just stop rolling. SOE nerfs classes to oblivion. Anyone who calls for a nerf of another class can't be respected in my book. IMO, it's the community against SOE, not class against class. It's a disservice to those you play with to point at another class and scream about what they have. I have never done it and I won't do it. I don't hate you. I just have no respect for you (and I'm sure you are going to tell me you really don't care which is part of the problem).I don't visit the other forum and could really care less. This forum is my home and it just irks me that you come into it and crap all over my house.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:05 PM   #160
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JoeMaxx wrote:
Hi Im a WIZ, lev 52 and a guardian lev 48, Im not going to flam or pour salt into your wounds. In truth i feel for you guys. I sort of liked that the Ranger class in EQ2 was so strong. In EQ1 the ranger was a joke. You know RANGER DOWN heh. So I was glad to see the Ranger doing so well. That being said I want you to know that your class will survive this nurf. It's not as bad as it could be. Remember I play a guardian so I know how bad it can be. The truth is as a Wiz I felt that my DPS was not up to the class description and that the ranger class was overpowering. I didn't want the Ranger nerfed I wanted some of what you had. But SOE has there own way of doing things. So I guess what I'm saying is hang in there and don't quite because of one nurf. Wait it out and see what happens. I think you'll find that the Ranger will still be in the top 2 or 3 in DPS. GOOD LUCK to you all and I'll see you in game. Oh and don't worry I'm sure my WIZ will be next on the nerf list.
From what we are hearing from Rangers in Beta, we aren't 3rd or 4th but 3rd tier.I thank you for your words of condolences, but take this from our perspective. We have had nothing but a bunch of casters (not necessarily you) begging for the bat to be swung in our direction. Now that it has, all the wizzies are going to come here to save face and say "we feel for you". For me, it's empty words. We don't forget what came before.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:22 PM   #161
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Cronon wrote:

JoeMaxx wrote:
Hi Im a WIZ, lev 52 and a guardian lev 48, Im not going to flam or pour salt into your wounds. In truth i feel for you guys. I sort of liked that the Ranger class in EQ2 was so strong. In EQ1 the ranger was a joke. You know RANGER DOWN heh. So I was glad to see the Ranger doing so well. That being said I want you to know that your class will survive this nurf. It's not as bad as it could be. Remember I play a guardian so I know how bad it can be. The truth is as a Wiz I felt that my DPS was not up to the class description and that the ranger class was overpowering. I didn't want the Ranger nerfed I wanted some of what you had. But SOE has there own way of doing things. So I guess what I'm saying is hang in there and don't quite because of one nurf. Wait it out and see what happens. I think you'll find that the Ranger will still be in the top 2 or 3 in DPS. GOOD LUCK to you all and I'll see you in game. Oh and don't worry I'm sure my WIZ will be next on the nerf list.
From what we are hearing from Rangers in Beta, we aren't 3rd or 4th but 3rd tier.I thank you for your words of condolences, but take this from our perspective. We have had nothing but a bunch of casters (not necessarily you) begging for the bat to be swung in our direction. Now that it has, all the wizzies are going to come here to save face and say "we feel for you". For me, it's empty words. We don't forget what came before.
I disagree here I personally think the change has a LOT more to do with PvP then people think.SoE see's the PVP aspect of this game as a way to claw customers back from Blizzard. If they can get this right then sales go up. Rangers on PvP were VERY popular and a awesome PvP class, which of course leads to multitudes of nerf rangers posts.If Wizzys get a DPS increase or at the top of the pile good luck to them. As long as the ranger class isnt destroyed by these changes I could care less.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:45 PM   #162
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valleyboy1 wrote:I disagree here I personally think the change has a LOT more to do with PvP then people think.SoE see's the PVP aspect of this game as a way to claw customers back from Blizzard. If they can get this right then sales go up. Rangers on PvP were VERY popular and a awesome PvP class, which of course leads to multitudes of nerf rangers posts.If Wizzys get a DPS increase or at the top of the pile good luck to them. As long as the ranger class isnt destroyed by these changes I could care less.
Don't get my posts wrong. I agree completely with you and always have had the same notion. I don't care about any other class's benefits as long as mine isn't killed to get them there. We were overpowered for sure, but from the sounds of it, we are being pushed back to August of last year. As long as my class doesn't get pounded into oblivion, I could care less if Wizzie's are soloing Terrorantula.
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Old 02-16-2006, 05:59 PM   #163
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Like the last expansion, I was waiting to buy the digital download until release day or the day after (let the inevitable major bugs and server crashes settle down etc). With these changes I'll delay purchasing and just stick with an alt for now, maybe raid my Ranger at T6 because he's the only 60 char I have and see what happens.
 
If he's gimped and looks likely to stay gimped I'll reconsider playing this game. Vanguard is drawing closer and while not the universal Panacea, a change will be as good as a rest. Hopefully there will be at least a year in that game before major game mechanics changes are necessary (and then again, oh and again later to fix what the last change broke - you get the idea).
 
I expect constant tweaking and balancing - but they rarely are in this game - they are sweeping and changes, implemented too often. A lot of anti-SoE posters are always going on about 'lack of QA'. I used to put it down to dissatisfaction etc. Now I really do question the EQ2 team ability to actually dry run then analyse the effects of changes on test - particularly something as far ranging as the proc changes.
 
And, although this clearly affects Rangers the most, I have sympathy for any other class these changes affect. It will reduce the DPS of classes that are currentyl balance, in itself creating an imbalance. 
 
Also, to me, it looks like this expansion is going the way of the DoF and the Combat revamp - massive changes going in just prior to release without adequate time to fully explore the direct and knock on effects of them.
 
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:13 PM   #164
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Where is the balancing? Do you know what balanced means? As far as I can see very little thought went into this change apart from someone read some posts about ranger's having to much dps and decided lower it without any thought to the extent or effect it would have. Yes Ranger dps was unfairly high, but this is by no means bringing it down to where it should be, it's lowering it too much. 300dps at lv 60 negates the point of the class even existing, rangers will not get groups will have the applications rejected to guilds and thrown on the scrapheap...lv 70 700dps with all abilities...what's the point in leveling, will take 2-3 times longer with the lower dps=p. There's an advantage in pvp with us being able to shoot and run at the same time, hmm oversight there couldn't see that coming doesn't effect the non pvp servers but i expect some thoughtless idiot will compensate by nerfing  us all by making us have to be stationary to fire....makes sense...no? Well neither do these changes!!!
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:28 PM   #165
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Ok to say that our procing poison was overpowered would have been an understatement.  However to make it so we almost never proc anymore is rediculas.  I have an idea why not fox the way procs go off period for all weapons.  In other words if its listed as a 5% chance to proc off an imbuded weapon then it should proc, on average, 1 in 20 for EVERY hit that the wielder performs whether its in auto attack or from a CA.  Same things for poisons, on average, 1 in 4 chance of procing of ANY attack made, whether auto attack or multiple attack CA'a.  It should also include the extra attacks that come from our offensive stances.
 
Forget the whole weapons delay issue thats whats causing the problem.  How do you compensate for slower weapons? Easy you scale the proc damage based upon the weapons delay.  Slower weapon bigger damage from the proc.  They already do this with normal weapon damage, can anyone say "damage rating?"  They also do this somewhat with by scaling spell/proc damage based upon Intellegence
 
Would this be harder to code? Possibly, but shouldn't be too hard they already have the code structure in place with the two afore mentioned examples.
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:29 PM   #166
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Guys the ranger is unplayable on the beta , they are putting us back pre-lu#13 is not worst ....
 
Good job SoE on going to a direction where you gonna loose [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] loads of customers !!!!
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