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Old 02-15-2006, 12:40 PM   #1
Visay1

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Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006 2/14/2005 8:15 pm*** Combat ***- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack.Not only does it mean that we will see alot of Triple Shots oder Double shots without a single proc but atm it seems that Quick shot does not proc poison anymore.My proc rate is way down now and so is my damage. If this goes live our damage will take a serious hit. I have not done any parse right now but it feels like my damage is down by atleast 30%.T1:Conjurer>NecroT2:Assassin>Brigand>Swashbuckler>RangerT3:Wizard-Warlock....This seems to be the way SOE is going with this expansion. Lets just hope the procs are somehow bugged on beta.
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:33 PM   #2
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its even worse actually.average dps in group is about 500-600 (on green mobs) if ya got full legendary gear or better, fully mastered out lv 70. (means i only encounter max even cons)that actually makes us rather tier3 than tier2, conju and necro pets easily hit 700+.furthermore poison procs insane low amounts of time atm, its like fire off triple volley, precise shot, amazing and get like 1 poison proc !shield also procs hardly once every 5-8 hits, quick shot doesnt lead to a proc at all.it actually takes like 4-5 CAs at least to kill a lv 55 solo mob on the first island in KoS (again fully mastered, str >400 int >140, grizz bow)so welcome to tier 3 dps if they dont fix that
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Old 02-15-2006, 03:16 PM   #3
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this better not go live, if it does, not only does our job go poof, well atleast we're not as good at it anymore.. but they just torched our soloing ability even further.  Cmon SoE make up your minds, are we utility now or are we dps?     ffs we have to pay (Alot) for our dps... why make it worse?
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Old 02-15-2006, 03:30 PM   #4
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well our poison costs are going very low now since 25% poisons proc at least 1/10 of the time and stun poisons and debuff poisons hardly ever proc in a heroic fight.i just think its kinda hard nerfing a class that nearly only does dps utility (id call it even the class with the least utility except dps), and then the dps is set down to Tier3 below bruisers even.if this goes live, you got us in the same situation as enchanters.btw i created a new lv 60 ranger on test with the testing gear and stuff like that i managed to do a good 320-390 dps on lv 55-59 mobs, good eh ?
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Old 02-15-2006, 04:13 PM   #5
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well right now you beta guys are that .. beta testing.
 
So i hope they reconsider it.
 
We always knew that rng dps came from poisons in a 40%, so destroying that is gona mean that your dps drops a LOT
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Old 02-15-2006, 05:24 PM   #6
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Axor wrote:
well right now you beta guys are that .. beta testing.
 
So i hope they reconsider it.
 
We always knew that rng dps came from poisons in a 40%, so destroying that is gona mean that your dps drops a LOT

Which is what the Wizzies want ... nerf the rangers.
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:01 PM   #7
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Is there a beta forum where you can put that info in. I mean...thats pretty rediculous. Are they going to up all of our CA's dmg by about oh, i dont know, 200%? If not, that is really not cool.

Complain Complain Complain until it gets fixed

It seems to work for wizzies. We dont want them to suck, why do they want us to suck so terribly bad

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:09 PM   #8
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This is what the sorcerers wanted.  Now we can suck together.
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:14 PM   #9
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Having poison proc on the first hit only seems too specific to be a random bug...    Compounded with mele proc and legendary poisons we may be in a tough spot indeed.
 
A note on stockpiling poisons...  I considered stockpiling until I realized a poison dose only seems to last about 30 min tops in a good group.  Too expensive for my poor rangers wallet.
 
I don't know why pet classes are getting so uber...  for lower tier damage level mixed with great utility they sure are shining bright!
 
Poison proc changes will really hurt us...  I think the changes were made to make scouts more pvp friendly.
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:15 PM   #10
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It seems to be worse than what they stated in the update notes.  They may be counting the CA for their cast length instead of the delay on the bow.  I logged in last night after the patch but before they put up the notes and noticed something wrong right away.  I messed around and came up with these numbers, not enough to make a conclusion but it is a cause for worry.Culling the Weak23 shots4 poison procs5 quick shot procs2 gleaming strikesPrecise Shot10 shots2 poison procs4 quick shot procs0 gleamig strikesTripple Arrow26 shots1 poison proc!!2 quick shot procs1 gleaming strikesNow compair those to the regular ranged auto attack.Auto Attack39 shots27 poison procs32 quick shot procs7 gleaming strikes
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:24 PM   #11
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What's the next change .. give every bowstyle a delay like stream so that we never again are able to shot on any mob while soloing ? And maybe lock the use of non-melee CA's for 6 seconds after use of cheapshot ?
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:37 PM   #12
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Beldin_ wrote:
What's the next change .. give every bowstyle a delay like stream so that we never again are able to shot on any mob while soloing ? And maybe lock the use of non-melee CA's for 6 seconds after use of cheapshot ?
YAY!!!!!!!!!! Let's give them more nerf ideas...:smileymad:  I used to LOVE my ranger, but, not so much anymore...  I usually go along with the whole "did they take our bow away? No? Good, were still rangers.  Adapt and move on" type of thinking, but, it has gotten harder and harder for me...  I am not sure I will spend the extra money on the new expansion, as the last one is still broke, and I really don't enjoy being a lvl 60 with not much to do.   I am usually really chipper, but, that has been lost with me now...  Who knows, maybe I'll just delete my accounts and go to another game...  It sure the hell won't be WOW, but...  The only reason I have stayed this long is because I love my class and the friends I have made here...  But, that has since passed...:smileysad:
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:39 PM   #13
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This is ridiculous. If this goes live, I am done with SOE. I don't think I have ever said anything like that. But, it will completely ruin Rangers. My heart sank when I read this.
 
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:39 PM   #14
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Kala Asuras wrote:It seems to be worse than what they stated in the update notes.  They may be counting the CA for their cast length instead of the delay on the bow.  I logged in last night after the patch but before they put up the notes and noticed something wrong right away.  I messed around and came up with these numbers, not enough to make a conclusion but it is a cause for worry.Culling the Weak23 shots4 poison procs5 quick shot procs2 gleaming strikesPrecise Shot10 shots2 poison procs4 quick shot procs0 gleamig strikesTripple Arrow26 shots1 poison proc!!2 quick shot procs1 gleaming strikesNow compair those to the regular ranged auto attack.Auto Attack39 shots27 poison procs32 quick shot procs7 gleaming strikes

those numbers are correct.and thats why we are about tier3 dps right now in KoS, our AAs dont work still, we only got 2 good ones that dont work atm, the rest is pretty lame. while other classes get tremendous aas we're even [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed up by decreasing poisons and procs.my new dps line would be something like:conju > necro > wiz / war > bruiser > monk > brigand / assa / swashi / ranger > guardian
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:41 PM   #15
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I hate to post on anything thats in beta since it seems to always change, but if any form of this goes through it will seriously hurt the ranger class. My first toon was a guardian, me and my wife basicly duoed all the time with her illusionist, then LU13 changed all that. So I went with a ranger only so sony could drasticlly change that class too. Come on enough already, let us get comfortable with a class then change it. I understand small tweaks but this hardly qualifys as a tweak!
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:42 PM   #16
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We cannot take this sitting down. This needs to be changed. All rangers must unify on this issue and make sure this never gets a sniff of live servers. Yeah,  I agree with the OP there is no way I am buying the KoS expansion.

 

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:45 PM   #17
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Hey, this is what we get for all our damage being based on a bug.   As much as I don't like the change, I know they'll never change it back to the way it was.If SOE wants us to be T1 DPS, they need to make us that way using game mechanics they intended.That's what we need to be asking for.
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:47 PM   #18
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Not a ranger here but if these numbers are accurate, this nerfing business is out of control.  Why do they always insist on taking an elephant gun to the mouse?

Welcome to Combat Revamp 2.0....

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:54 PM   #19
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Hey, this is what we get for all our damage being based on a bug.   As much as I don't like the change, I know they'll never change it back to the way it was

When was that ever a bug? Who stated that poison proc in each hit was a bug? And I am so sick of this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] when a change is made they are calling it a bug. If this a bug, everything in this [Removed for Content] game can be called a bug.  If something has been in the game since its inception and has always worked that way even through a combat revamp – how the hell can it be called a bug. If this gets changed we need an across the board damage boost of about 40% to all of our CAs.

 

I am not Chicken Little and I don’t post dread and gloom threads ever! But, if this does go live and we do not get a damage boost on our CAs – I am done. I am done with EQ2 and with SOE. They just have no idea what they are doing and use a sledgehammer to make changes. I only have one character – my Ranger. And, I am not switching to level up another. Maybe I just don’t have the stomach for MMOs and all their changes. Or, maybe SOE does not have a clue. Whatever it is, NWN2 is looking really good.

 

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:55 PM   #20
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Magus_Blue wrote:

Not a ranger here but if these numbers are accurate, this nerfing business is out of control.  Why do they always insist on taking an elephant gun to the mouse?

Welcome to Combat Revamp 2.0....


He He a great analogy.  My first toon was a warlock...   I rolled that toon over a year ago after researching what his job and role was...  Then combat revamp 1.0 becaume an AE specialist... DOH!!!!  Because I wanted single target rolled a ranger after researching classes and abilities....  Then revamp 2.0.... DOH!!!!   

They take away almost all death penalty because too many people thought it was anoying.... Make griffons towers and belles in most zones to take away anoying travel....  When will they learn that when they totally 180 degree alter a class THAT IS FAR MORE ANOYING THAN HAVING TO GET A SPIRIT SHARD.

Getting tired of feeling like a rat in sony's maze...

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:55 PM   #21
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GTaubin wrote:
YAY!!!!!!!!!! Let's give them more nerf ideas...:smileymad:  I used to LOVE my ranger, but, not so much anymore...  I usually go along with the whole "did they take our bow away? No? Good, were still rangers.  Adapt and move on" type of thinking, but, it has gotten harder and harder for me...  I am not sure I will spend the extra money on the new expansion, as the last one is still broke, and I really don't enjoy being a lvl 60 with not much to do.   I am usually really chipper, but, that has been lost with me now...  Who knows, maybe I'll just delete my accounts and go to another game...  It sure the hell won't be WOW, but...  The only reason I have stayed this long is because I love my class and the friends I have made here...  But, that has since passed...:smileysad:

You took the words right out of my mouth. Its wierd, are you reading my thoughts right now too?

There used to be nothing that could seperate me from my Ranger, even far before lu13, but now....it might be Everfrost will be short a couple more rangers ...:smileysad:

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Old 02-15-2006, 07:58 PM   #22
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Fennir wrote:Hey, this is what we get for all our damage being based on a bug.   As much as I don't like the change, I know they'll never change it back to the way it was.If SOE wants us to be T1 DPS, they need to make us that way using game mechanics they intended.That's what we need to be asking for.

Well i dont totally agree that all we had was a bug, but in fact i dont care!Im playing a ranger bc i want to be T1 dps without utility (nearly) -- it doesnt matter if our dmg is mostly based on poison or whatever, i can adjust to how we work out our dmg, but i dont think you can adjust a ranger to not do good dps, because there is nothing left to do then.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:03 PM   #23
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That's sort of my point.  It doesn't matter where our dmg was coming from.The devs said we are supposed to be T1 DPS.  The only thing keeping us near summoners was procs.If that's going to be changed, I fully expect my class to be T1 DPS again.  I don't care how they accomplish it.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:06 PM   #24
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Memory01 wrote:Well i dont totally agree that all we had was a bug, but in fact i dont care!Im playing a ranger bc i want to be T1 dps without utility (nearly) -- it doesnt matter if our dmg is mostly based on poison or whatever, i can adjust to how we work out our dmg, but i dont think you can adjust a ranger to not do good dps, because there is nothing left to do then.

Agreed. Take our dps away and YES we still have pathfinding and tracking, since those are such amazing utility (so claims the wizards). Youve got to be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing kidding me. This might just be the straw for me
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:09 PM   #25
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Memory01 wrote:
Fennir wrote:Hey, this is what we get for all our damage being based on a bug.   As much as I don't like the change, I know they'll never change it back to the way it was.If SOE wants us to be T1 DPS, they need to make us that way using game mechanics they intended.That's what we need to be asking for.

Well i dont totally agree that all we had was a bug, but in fact i dont care!Im playing a ranger bc i want to be T1 dps without utility (nearly) -- it doesnt matter if our dmg is mostly based on poison or whatever, i can adjust to how we work out our dmg, but i dont think you can adjust a ranger to not do good dps, because there is nothing left to do then.

If this was a bug introduced in LU13 why in the hell would they wait till LU 20X to fix [Or better yet actually test thier patches and fix prior to "golive"]... Sadistic!  A bug of this caliber that moves us two to three tiers of dps should have been fixed the VERY next update.  Mele weop procs should have been fixed the VERY next update....  Tradeskilling change to poisons.... Should never be changed, I personally know several tradeskiller type people who came to eq2 because of the complex tradeskiling...

Then again... Beta could be bugged and all this is but a dream!  I for one am holding out on purchasing the expansion to see where we land.

Message Edited by Niuan on 02-15-200607:12 AM

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Old 02-15-2006, 08:13 PM   #26
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It wasn't introduced in LU#13.It was introduced in the beginning of the game with their proc formula that was weighted towards long-delay weapons.  Our longbow is the longest delay weapon in the game, and using that formula equates to an almost 99% proc chance per bow shot.It's just that our damage sucked a lot more before LU#13 so a lot of non-rangers didn't notice.  After LU#13, everyone noticed.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:14 PM   #27
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I simply can not see us getting tooled on so unmercifully without a significant upgrade in Combat arts. The whole poision issue is a null point they have basically been working exactly the same since DoF came out why change them now? The little tweak in lu 19 just made it so they didnt last as long and kept a accurate counter on the amout of procs. If this does go live and we become a t2 or 3 dps dealing class what use are we? WE are DPS. It is what we do. I didnt roll a ranger to be utility i rolled a ranger to be a damage dealing monster.

 

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Old 02-15-2006, 08:25 PM   #28
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i just had a vision of a tombstone saying:
R.I.P.Rangers(LU13-LU20)"and the wizards cried, nerf rangers!"
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:26 PM   #29
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As of LU20, the Fists line of procs will only trigger on the first hit of any art that launches more than one attack. In other words, the days of landing more than five procs are soon to be over.

Do not cry nerf; I told you this was coming. After the next live update, the spell will behave as the description says it should. This is a bug fix, not a nerf.

===========================Steve Danuser, a.k.a. MoorgardGame Designer, EverQuest II

Have to admit I read that thoroughly unsympathetic comment to bruisers who are being hit with the same change and thought what a callous person. Hopefully he just got out on the wrong side of the bed before writing that but I can't see him showing us any sympathy though at least he commented on the change to them.

I moved from playing a shadowknight due to their problems after it just became too much of a grind and played a ranger I loved before adding a bruiser to the mix who I also adore. Why on earth do SoE feel the need to repeatedly "bug fix" classes in such a way as anyone except Moorgard would call a nerf and then deny it to our faces? Do they truly believe if they say white is black enough times and ignore any evidence otherwise that it becomes true?

A former fanboi.

 

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Old 02-15-2006, 08:31 PM   #30
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I hope this doesn't have a massive impact on Ranger damage as far as being balanced goes.  I've just got my Ranger to lvl 22 and I'm loving the play style more and more.  My main is a Monk and love being able to tank fairly well and dish out some nice damage when needed.
 
Thinking about it, and from the way things have scaled, I have noticed quite a big gap in damage output between my Ranger and Monk.  The damage i can dish out with my Ranger at lvl 22 is a lot higher than what my Monk could do at that lvl.  And the way things are scaling, it looks like that trend isn't going to break (unless theres a huge class changing turning point I'm not aware of at higher lvl's)
 
Also, I have yet to use any poison....  From what I'm reading here, poison makes a massive difference.  Well if that's the case, the damage gap would be huge.
 
The point I'm trying to make from what I've seen, as little as that may be, there will still be a large damage gap between Ranger and brawler dps after they nerf poison procs....
 
Don't take this the wrong way...  I really want my Ranger to out dps my Monk with a passion.  That's why I started a Ranger.  I wanted a melee class with very nice damage and some utility and style and I have to say I'm loving it so far.  On the flip side though, I get slapped about so badly compared to my Monk :smileyvery-happy:
 
Enlighten me :smileyindifferent:
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