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Old 12-26-2005, 08:02 PM   #61
Gareorn

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Poochymama p wrote:

The reason I get defensive is people (mainly assasins) are hell bent on making sure wizards dont get a dps increase when they obviously needed them.


So, you are trolling the Ranger forums because..?

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Old 12-27-2005, 12:31 PM   #62
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Gareorn wrote:


Poochymama p wrote:

The reason I get defensive is people (mainly assasins) are hell bent on making sure wizards dont get a dps increase when they obviously needed them.


So, you are trolling the Ranger forums because..?




Because I read all class forums not just the ones I play.
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Old 12-27-2005, 12:56 PM   #63
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she also parsed more dmg than any other raid participant

Well surely somebody has to be parsing more than anybody else, and given that the person was a Tier 1 damage dealer, what's the problem?.... That's not to say other Tier 1 damage dealers might not have issues. Merely to note that a Ranger coming top in a raid parse is a complete non-issue.

I'm a Brigand, not a Ranger btw, I'm not merely rooting for my "own team".

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Old 12-27-2005, 02:21 PM   #64
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Who is who in the top DPS ladder? Is this what this is about? Or is this class envy? I think wizards are fine, they have really nice utility which we dont have, they make nice dmg (even some state otherwise), whats the problem? Predators SHOULD be better DPS than wizards in ANY situations! Why? Simple, we have only our DPS to bring to the group, no resist buffs, no power buffs, etc... just the plain DPS. This of course can be debated till the judgement day since its a matter of opinion of course. But really why all the hate? Are rangers soooo much _better_ than wizards in DPS? We make piercing/slashing (can even make some crushing) dmg. Those can be debuffed quite severly agaisnt eg. a raid mob (where the major _disparity_ seems to be). Wizzies make elemental dmg, their spells can be resisted, they are totally different dmg dealers than us. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT??? They can solo very efficiently, yes even with their paper armour. Roots/stuns/stifles are not something to be overlooked. Besides, our medium armour is not that good, try it out someday and you'll notice. Yes, we stand more hits than silk wearers, but then again if we stay on offensive mode, we dont... so in order to survive some hits (referring to group play here) we have to swith to defensive mode which drops our DPS (of course, thats the prize to pay).Our poisons are very powerful, they also cost quite much to buy. They also do like 30-50% of our dmg.... Dunno if some slight _balancing_ there would be needed or not, but i really dont understand the offhand not proccing poisons nerf they recently made. That was a slap against the other scouts who rely on their melee power more than the ranged one.... *shrug* maybe some solutions to even us being so overpowerd *cough* is eventually found... peace, out. [well, maybe 1 or 2 more sentences... SMILEY]Sigh, tired of reading these kind of threads, had to respond something thou... Well, merry xmas (oh that went already) and even HAPPIER NEW YEAR to EVERYONE! :smileyvery-happy: ++Xan
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Old 12-27-2005, 08:23 PM   #65
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The funny thing is that I get jealous of a lot of casters who seem to land stuff on orange mobs 10x easier than I can.
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:45 AM   #66
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Fennir wrote:The funny thing is that I get jealous of a lot of casters who seem to land stuff on orange mobs 10x easier than I can.

I find it to be the opposite.  I can take my ranger to fight mobs 8 or 10 levels higehr and still contribute some damage whereas my caster will get resisted nearly 100% of the time.
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Old 12-28-2005, 02:54 AM   #67
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xandez wrote:Who is who in the top DPS ladder? Is this what this is about? Or is this class envy? I think wizards are fine, they have really nice utility which we dont have, they make nice dmg (even some state otherwise), whats the problem? Predators SHOULD be better DPS than wizards in ANY situations! Why? Simple, we have only our DPS to bring to the group, no resist buffs, no power buffs, etc... just the plain DPS. This of course can be debated till the judgement day since its a matter of opinion of course. But really why all the hate? Are rangers soooo much _better_ than wizards in DPS? We make piercing/slashing (can even make some crushing) dmg. Those can be debuffed quite severly agaisnt eg. a raid mob (where the major _disparity_ seems to be). Wizzies make elemental dmg, their spells can be resisted, they are totally different dmg dealers than us. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT??? They can solo very efficiently, yes even with their paper armour. Roots/stuns/stifles are not something to be overlooked. Besides, our medium armour is not that good, try it out someday and you'll notice. Yes, we stand more hits than silk wearers, but then again if we stay on offensive mode, we dont... so in order to survive some hits (referring to group play here) we have to swith to defensive mode which drops our DPS (of course, thats the prize to pay).Our poisons are very powerful, they also cost quite much to buy. They also do like 30-50% of our dmg.... Dunno if some slight _balancing_ there would be needed or not, but i really dont understand the offhand not proccing poisons nerf they recently made. That was a slap against the other scouts who rely on their melee power more than the ranged one.... *shrug* maybe some solutions to even us being so overpowerd *cough* is eventually found... peace, out. [well, maybe 1 or 2 more sentences... SMILEY]Sigh, tired of reading these kind of threads, had to respond something thou... Well, merry xmas (oh that went already) and even HAPPIER NEW YEAR to EVERYONE! :smileyvery-happy: ++Xan

I find rangers have their own kind of utility.  The ability to choose which resistances to debuff is beautiful, as well as the choice of stun, stifle or slow.  These aren't abilities that will land you in an MT group, but are nonetheless important.   I know I carry 7 different kinds of poison on me at all times and switch as the situation calls for it. As for the proc nerf (yes proc, NOT poison), recall that procs were increased for DW previously.  Additonally, I personally find that scouts exxaggarate the cost of poisons.  When it suits them they will state the highest cost on the broker, even if it is questionable that they ever actually purchase them at that price.  How many high level rangers do NOT know SOME crafters who can help offset the cost from buying direct from a random alchemist?
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Old 12-28-2005, 03:14 AM   #68
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Sokolov wrote:

Additonally, I personally find that scouts exxaggarate the cost of poisons.  When it suits them they will state the highest cost on the broker, even if it is questionable that they ever actually purchase them at that price.  How many high level rangers do NOT know SOME crafters who can help offset the cost from buying direct from a random alchemist?


I used to spend 1.5-2p a week on poisons and that is with a very good alchemist connection where I was only paying 4-5g per vial.  I do supply the rare vial for the Adeste and even the Foxglove lately since it's price had skyrocketed.  If your in a raid guild and do instance runs daily it is very easy to spend 2p a week on poison even with a connection.

Luckily they finally fixed poisons to not drop on death.  This make a huge difference and will come close to knocking down my weekly poison cost by 60-70%.  While still an expense poisons are no longer the huge cash drain they used to be.


 

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Old 12-28-2005, 08:25 AM   #69
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So you supply everything and still pay 5g per vial?  Doesn't really cost more than 1g each to make, ya know.  Now, as a crafter I believe we are entitled to profit, but for one and one-third combines per vial, a 4g profit is pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good. EDIT: This also means that perhaps I should raise my prices on bottle combines for random alchemists if that kind of margin is considered good by consumers SMILEY

Message Edited by Sokolov on 12-27-2005 07:37 PM

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Old 12-28-2005, 10:22 AM   #70
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I pay 4g per legendary vial (i provide the vials), and 5g for the handcrafted ones (I don't make those vials), and order 20 adeste's, 20 phantasmic visions, and 10 glox each time. I hate crafting at this point, honestly, and figure anyone who is willing to sit there and make me 50 poisons at a time (plus various potions I order for my guild) deserves the pittance.  1-2p is like one day of instances at lvl 60. That's 1-2p a week that no caster will ever have to pay.
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Old 12-28-2005, 11:09 PM   #71
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I may end up paying a little more but part of that is me tipping.  He really only charges me 3g per poison but like Tobias I tend to order in bulk.  My orders are usually a minimum of 30-40 vials of various poisons.  And considering how hard it is to find an Alchemist that will make big orders like that the same day or at the latest the next day.  I don't mind giving him a decent tip.  He's even been nice enough to deliver poisons to me in a raid zone lol.  Now that's good service SMILEY

 

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Old 12-29-2005, 01:32 AM   #72
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Prices vary per server but from talking in the world ranger channel, the general price on the broker for Adeste (Legendary t6 damage poison) seems to be 10-15g per vial.  If I supply the loam or vials I'm still paying 5g a pop to have an alchy friend make them.  That, also, seems to be a standard that scouts are paying for vials of poison, and that is just for the legendary.  The last time I ordered poisons to be made, I spent 1.5p to have about 45-50 vials made for me, this included 6 adeste, 2 gaige and the rest were phantasmic visions and shissar.  That supply would have lasted me about 2 weeks prior to the LU18 change.

As for ranger utility, you're confusing a couple things here.  Yes, we can choose which resists we want to debuff, but to swap means you cancel one poison and apply another if you're doing it per fight.  That means you go through poisons faster which refers to my 1st paragraph and translates to you spending more money on poisons.  As for the stun, stifle, slow poisons, those don't work on epic mobs, or anything you would need a MT group for, so you can't really count those in.  I don't even carry slow poisons with me anymore.  I use stun's for heroics and no misc poison for epic targets.

On the topic of Ranger's doing 1200-1400 dps, get over it.  Before you continue whining about Ranger's doing that, check your raid setup and just look at HOW Ranger's can pull that off.  We had our brigand on a raid for the first time the other night and ALL melee classes, not just Ranger's, had their DPS jump by 300 on every fight, just because of his debuffs.  Ranger's are pulling off those numbers because the mobs resists are being debuffed so much they hit for more.  If you want to complain, try complaining to your debuffers to drop elemental resists on mobs.  Who knows, maybe play nice with your Ranger buddies and see if one or two of them won't step into range to drop Forester's Noose (does 1632 heat debuff at master 1) on the mob for you, then you could see your spells hitting for more as well.  My guild wizards don't complain about me just for that reason, I try to keep Noose on targets at all times.  Add that onto the Coercer debuff that drops all resists 800 and you get a nice drop in fire resists, which means your spells land harder.  I've even been known to drop my poison resist debuff and use a fire resist debuff on mobs that I can't damage with poison.  Debuffs will increase your DPS far more than anything else.

Message Edited by Demlar on 12-28-2005 12:39 PM

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Old 12-29-2005, 01:36 AM   #73
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No, of course they don't count.  But then neither should Coercer's as most of their arsenal can't even touch epics, etc. As I was saying, people will always take the extreme of their situations and make it sound worse than it is while elevating everyone else, that's my whole point. And I with you on the crafting thing, Tobias.  I mostly hide on my alts now =/
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Old 12-29-2005, 01:47 AM   #74
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The 25% DPS reduction poison and the Stifle poison both work on Epic's.  The Stifle poison with it's pathetic number of proc's and very short Stifle is pretty worthless though.  The 25% DPS reduction poison on the other hand is standard gear for raids.

 

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Old 12-29-2005, 03:14 AM   #75
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Sokolov wrote:

As I was saying, people will always take the extreme of their situations and make it sound worse than it is while elevating everyone else, that's my whole point.


Including you, right?

I do agree, anyone who is put on the defensive will likely do what they can to avert the accusations, regardless of what class they play. But this is an elementary, obvious point. Nobody is going to find objective truth in a player forum for any game.

You're right, many casters and others have come to our forum to present their laundry list of problems and tell us how great we have it. And you know what? We DO have it pretty good, and we know it - we're very thankful, after being in a fairly broken state for a few months. But we do NOT have it as good as a lot of wizards and warlocks seem to want to believe. We get told we have more utility than a wizard - that's just plain silly. We get told we all have DPS in the thousands - also not true. So we correct these assumptions that get made about our class because we know more about it than someone who doesn't play it. (And yes, I know you do, and congrats for that - hopefully you have the experience to realize how silly some of those statements really are.)

Yes, some rangers exaggerate the cost of poisons and other factors. That's lamentable, but unfortunately it's expected. They're only human, just like the wizards who are disappointed that they were outdamaged by one ranger on one raid and extrapolate that experience into a gamewide rule that always happens everywhere. Lamentable, but expected.

There are clearly some significant balance issues in the game, and I'm sure our class won't be exempt from all future changes. I'm fine with it, personally - I don't feel entitled to be extremely powerful, I just want my character to fulfill the purpose for which he was designed. The rest is just icing.

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Old 12-29-2005, 04:00 AM   #76
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A long time ago I started my first online role-playing game; a MUD call The Final Challenge.  This was a PK MUD, and a certain class was getting the wrath of all the players for their player killing accumen.  In this game Shaman were not the benevolent healers of EQ2. Rather they were very powerful casters who happened to have the strongest DD spell in the game, the dreaded SOUL RIFT.

So of course the call came out to nerf those dastardly Shamen.  1st time I had ever heard the word, but you just instictively knew what it meant

One of the guild leaders (I'm proud to say my own guild's leader) penned this in response and I've thought of it ever since, whenever someone wants a class nerfed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it was nice to feel that I have friends, coming to work this morning and
finding 40 messages unopened. However, 35 were about TFC, and I think 85% of
them were in regards to the shaman controversy. Wouldn't it be awesome if there
was this much passion about every role-playing issue on TFC?

Anyway, I have come up with a list of things the Implementors can and should do
IMMEDIATELY to solve this crisis:

TOP TEN WAYS TO DEAL WITH THE SHAMAN DILEMMA

10. Change TFC to have just one class: shaman. You could dual if you wanted
but only to another type of shaman. Everyone would be on equal footing so no
arguments.

9. Change the spell 'soul rift' to 'sole rift'. This spell makes the victim's
feet hurt really badly. They couldn't run more than 2 rooms away before
tremendous blistering set in. Clerics could have anti-spell: Dr. Scholls'
Healing Pads

8. Change the spell 'soul rift' to 'sole rift'. This would cause fish to slam
against the victim's armor (suggested this one just for the halibut).

7. Change the spell 'soul rift' to 'sole rift'. This spell would cause only
(solely) the caster to spontaneously combust. Probably wouldn't be used very
often.

6. Change the spell 'soul rift' to 'soul riff'. Amazing sounding blues music
would flow from the caster's ears, and would lull the victim into a false sense
of inner peace. Victim could not cast aggressive spell for 8 ticks.

5. Take away the shaman's spells and let them wear armor and use any weapon
they'd like. Also change their max str to 999kg and give them skills like
dodge, second attack, and enhanced damage. This idea is kind of radical but
sounds like it could be a cool class, doesn't it?

4. Change shaman's role to fashion coordinater. Add spells like 'make scarf',
'make shawl', and 'make hat' so that they could accessorize more.

3. Don't allow PKs...or killing of any monsters. Spells wouldn't be needed
then and we'd have a much more peaceful world, where you could get experience
only by getting a job in Midgaard or your home town, learning a trade, and
becoming a valuable member of society.

2. Only allow shamen to PK other shamen of the same alignment, same level, and
same name. This will cut down on the number of people who are being hunted and
along with it, the number of complaints. (except from shamen)

1. Change the maximum level that a shaman could attain to 5. They'd be the
kings of the arena, rifting spectators and fans to the bowels of hell, but
wouldn't be a big threat to those players, say, level 9 and up.

I feel that if at least 6 of these changes are implemented within the next 24
hours, total chaos will be averted and we will once again all be able to enjoy
ourselves.

Coleman, God of Mirth
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats pretty much summed up my view of calling for Nerfs on others ever since then.

BTW, the shaman were not nerfed because a new bad-azz class came along.  The dreaded Warrior/Cleric.  Now those [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ers needed a serious nerf!!

lighten up, have fun, and remember...  Lets be careful out there

 

Message Edited by Prandtl on 12-28-2005 03:03 PM

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Old 12-29-2005, 04:21 AM   #77
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xandez wrote:
Who is who in the top DPS ladder? Is this what this is about? Or is this class envy? I think wizards are fine, they have really nice utility which we dont have, they make nice dmg (even some state otherwise), whats the problem?

Predators SHOULD be better DPS than wizards in ANY situations! Why? Wrong Moorgard even stated that on average wizards/warlocks will have higher dps output than rangers and assasins, but that it would be small since they are in the same tier. Simple, we have only our DPS to bring to the group, no resist buffs, no power buffs, etc... just the plain DPS. This of course can be debated till the judgement day since its a matter of opinion of course.

But really why all the hate? Are rangers soooo much _better_ than wizards in DPS? Yes about double (1200-1600) whereas wizards are (600-800)We make piercing/slashing (can even make some crushing) dmg. Those can be debuffed quite severly agaisnt eg. a raid mob (where the major _disparity_ seems to be). Wizzies make elemental dmg, their spells can be resisted, they are totally different dmg dealers than us. WHATS WRONG WITH THAT???

They can solo very efficiently, yes even with their paper armour. Roots/stuns/stifles are not something to be overlooked. Besides, our medium armour is not that good, try it out someday and you'll notice. Yes, we stand more hits than silk wearers, but then again if we stay on offensive mode, we dont... so in order to survive some hits (referring to group play here) we have to swith to defensive mode which drops our DPS (of course, thats the prize to pay).

Our poisons are very powerful, they also cost quite much to buy. They also do like 30-50% of our dmg.... Dunno if some slight _balancing_ there would be needed or not, but i really dont understand the offhand not proccing poisons nerf they recently made. That was a slap against the other scouts who rely on their melee power more than the ranged one.... *shrug* maybe some solutions to even us being so overpowerd *cough* is eventually found... peace, out. [well, maybe 1 or 2 more sentences... SMILEY]

Sigh, tired of reading these kind of threads, had to respond something thou... Well, merry xmas (oh that went already) and even HAPPIER NEW YEAR to EVERYONE! :smileyvery-happy:


++Xan




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Old 12-29-2005, 06:26 AM   #78
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Crychtonn wrote:

The 25% DPS reduction poison and the Stifle poison both work on Epic's.  The Stifle poison with it's pathetic number of proc's and very short Stifle is pretty worthless though.  The 25% DPS reduction poison on the other hand is standard gear for raids.


Case in point.  This was actually an outright lie by the other poster then, not just an exxaggeration.  I didn't really know, because, while I do PLAY a ranger, I haven't really raided with the ranger. I also do not see why you would have to change resistance poison during the same raid.  Only the actual target really needs that extra debuff, not yard trash, but if you WANT to waste poisons.... Oh, and last I checked, resistance debuffs were made from COMMON loam and not rare loam, so they should be much more affordable anyway!
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Old 12-29-2005, 06:42 AM   #79
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Jay42 wrote:

Sokolov wrote:As I was saying, people will always take the extreme of their situations and make it sound worse than it is while elevating everyone else, that's my whole point.

Including you, right?

I am not sure what you are referring to in particular, but yes, I am suspectible to this as well.

I do agree, anyone who is put on the defensive will likely do what they can to avert the accusations, regardless of what class they play. But this is an elementary, obvious point. Nobody is going to find objective truth in a player forum for any game.

You're right, many casters and others have come to our forum to present their laundry list of problems and tell us how great we have it. And you know what? We DO have it pretty good, and we know it - we're very thankful, after being in a fairly broken state for a few months. But we do NOT have it as good as a lot of wizards and warlocks seem to want to believe. We get told we have more utility than a wizard - that's just plain silly. We get told we all have DPS in the thousands - also not true. So we correct these assumptions that get made about our class because we know more about it than someone who doesn't play it. (And yes, I know you do, and congrats for that - hopefully you have the experience to realize how silly some of those statements really are.)

I do not recall people telling you you have more utility than a wizard.  Rather, *I* did suggest that Rangers do not bring "only DPS" to the table (not sure who said this, but someone did earlier which is why I mentioned the many different poisons a ranger can use that are not directly tied to DPS).

Yes, some rangers exaggerate the cost of poisons and other factors. That's lamentable, but unfortunately it's expected. They're only human, just like the wizards who are disappointed that they were outdamaged by one ranger on one raid and extrapolate that experience into a gamewide rule that always happens everywhere. Lamentable, but expected.

In my experience, I have not really seen any instance (where it mattered) that a Sorcerer could outdamage a Ranger.  And if it was just one raid, I doubt there would be such an uproar about it.  Likewise with assassins.   On the contrary, RANGERS would be the one complaining instead if they could only do the type of damage other T1 DPS classes do on an occasional raid.  Wait, wasn't that the situation pre-LU13?  I have rangers here telling me they posted constructive feedback trying to get their class improved, and now other people doing the same is "lamentable?"  Oh right, they are "whining" about it, not being constructive. 

There are clearly some significant balance issues in the game, and I'm sure our class won't be exempt from all future changes. I'm fine with it, personally - I don't feel entitled to be extremely powerful, I just want my character to fulfill the purpose for which he was designed. The rest is just icing.

I suppose in the end I am just whining about whining, which isn't constructive either =D But it does provide something to do while my ship on EVE Online is warping to the next jumpgate, or while waiting for someone's stupid PP's timer to run out.  

But good points here in the last part.   I agree with that =D


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Old 12-29-2005, 11:45 AM   #80
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Wait, so people are complaining that certain classes do not match their "damage tier" because of others' buffs and debuffs? Am I just crazy or is that completely off the wall? If I do a ceratin amount of damage, and SupportClass X increases that by 50%, the extra damage should actually be credited to the support class, not to me. We've even been told that "indirect" DPS is part of how they calculate the damage output of a class - enchanter and bard haste, for instance, counts (to SoE) for the enchanter or bards DPS, regardless of who is actually dealing the damage. And I'm sure from the perspective of the support classes, they couldn't care less HOW the indirect damage is generated, whether it credits that damage to mages or scouts or priests or whoever.  Judge the "damage tier" of a class by what IT brings, not by how it appears to perform when all the support is thrown in.
 
If there's any kind of problem here at all it's a desirability one: a raid leader would logically choose classes for which more buffs / debuffs would help, assuming that there's enough of the support classes to go around. But the problem isn't that rangers, warlocks, wizards, etc, aren't balanced - the problem is that support is skewed in one direction or the other. If anything needs to be adjusted, it's the support, not the damage classes. Adjusting the actual damage classes assuming optimal (i.e. raid) setup is a recipe for disaster in groups and solo, where there's no grounds for assuming that support will be present. It would hardly be fair to have unequal T1 damage classes self-buffed or with "average" group support just so they could all turn up exactly the same parse numbers on raids. Does it really matter who gets the big numbers next to their name if the classes are directly contributing the same amount of damage, and the support classes are buffing one more than the other?
 
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Old 12-29-2005, 04:57 PM   #81
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"7-15 GP for a T6 poison adds up, especially if you liek to be prepared. "
 
Huh?  You do realize that T6 is Fabled, right?  If you're only paying 7-15 gold for a Fabled poison as a level 52 ranger then you need to let us all know where to get it...
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Old 12-29-2005, 07:41 PM   #82
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Do you play a scout? T6 is not fabled. There are no fabled poisons - the best you can get is legendary made from the loam of a rare. These legendary poisons depending on the server can go from anywhere between 12g - 17g.  Since they fixed the poison bug on dying it is not that much of a drain anymore but before that I could go through 1 p of poisons a night easily.

 

The point is there are no fabled poisons just legendary. Just because they are T6 does not make them fabled.

 

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Old 12-29-2005, 08:53 PM   #83
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Sokolov wrote:

I do not recall people telling you you have more utility than a wizard.  Rather, *I* did suggest that Rangers do not bring "only DPS" to the table (not sure who said this, but someone did earlier which is why I mentioned the many different poisons a ranger can use that are not directly tied to DPS).

It's been said a few times in various threads in various forums. Like you're saying, people in the middle of a big class balance debate tend to get tunnelvision (myself included) and the grass becomes infinitely greener. I've had to remind wizards that they have things like resist buffs, strength buffs, health-power conversion, and powerfeeding, in addition to all the utility we get besides Tracking. You're right, we do get to use poisons that can apply some cool effects, and that's really the only way we can bring something other than damage to a situation.

In my experience, I have not really seen any instance (where it mattered) that a Sorcerer could outdamage a Ranger.  And if it was just one raid, I doubt there would be such an uproar about it.  Likewise with assassins.   On the contrary, RANGERS would be the one complaining instead if they could only do the type of damage other T1 DPS classes do on an occasional raid.  Wait, wasn't that the situation pre-LU13? 

Yep, it was, and I don't think any rangers posted on the mage forums about how mages needed to be nerfed. That's the problem most of us have, even while recognizing the need for balance. These discussions are sometimes mature and respectful, but all too often they're just flamewars about who has the better class and who needs to be nerfed. We got a huge boost with LU13 and we know it - no one here is trying to hide that we're a powerful class now. Most of us who take two minutes to think about it will agree that sorcerors and assassins need the same kind of help.

I have rangers here telling me they posted constructive feedback trying to get their class improved, and now other people doing the same is "lamentable?"  Oh right, they are "whining" about it, not being constructive. 

Some of them are being constructive (and kudos to those folks), some aren't. Unfortunately, it's the ones that are starting flamewars that get the most attention, and have contributed to the perception of "hate" b/w the classes. So yes, some are whining about it and they get the kind of response that anyone gets when they troll another classes' forum to complain about that class.

I suppose in the end I am just whining about whining, which isn't constructive either =D But it does provide something to do while my ship on EVE Online is warping to the next jumpgate, or while waiting for someone's stupid PP's timer to run out.  

But good points here in the last part.   I agree with that =D

That's nice. Personally I'm just trying to enjoy it while it lasts. I never played EQ1 (thank god) but I view this moment in the sun as payback for what sounds like years of gimpery.  SMILEY


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Old 12-29-2005, 09:09 PM   #84
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Quote:
Case in point.  This was actually an outright lie by the other poster then, not just an exxaggeration.  I didn't really know, because, while I do PLAY a ranger, I haven't really raided with the ranger.

I also do not see why you would have to change resistance poison during the same raid.  Only the actual target really needs that extra debuff, not yard trash, but if you WANT to waste poisons....

Oh, and last I checked, resistance debuffs were made from COMMON loam and not rare loam, so they should be much more affordable anyway!

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First off, it wasn’t an outright lie on my part.  I have never used Hoorendous Atrophy, never even seen a vial of it on any broker at any time on Grobb.  Therefore, I didn’t even know it existed.  After reading this thread about it working on epics I went to eq2alchemy.com and looked it up.  After this post I’m making one on my guild boards to have some made for future use.  It was lack of knowledge on my part about 1 poison (and I’m not ashamed to admit I didn’t know about it), not a lie.

 

Put on 1 debuff poison, it will last past more than 1 named mob.  If the damage poisons work on the first mob then the Shissar I usually have running if fine.  If the mob is completely immune to damage poisons then it would be in my best interest to switch to something like a heat/cold resist, slashing resist, piercing resist poison to increase the dps of the raid as a whole.  If Ranger’s have the utility you keep coming here screaming we have, then changing poisons like this would be a common occurrence and would drive the amount of money we spend on poisons up even more, again shooting a hole in your theory that we don’t pay nearly as much as we say we do.

 

You’re right, resistance debuff poisons are common and don’t need a rare loam.  As for them being more affordable, come to Grobb and check the broker.  Both in Qeynos and on the fence you can never find any debuff poisons anymore, people are only selling Adeste at 10g a vial.  When you special order the debuff poisons you are still paying 5-6g per vial of debuffs.  It’s all based on server economy, not what we’d like it to be or what we think it should cost us.  The simple fact that I know non-rare poisons and debuffs can be made for about 1 gold per vial is why I started an alchemist alt.

 

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Old 12-29-2005, 09:18 PM   #85
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Also, it's worth noting that special effects poisons (like the stifle you mentioned) do not last long at all - maybe 3-5 mobs, depending. So maintaining a constant application of stun or stifle poison does get costly. Yes, debuffs are made from common ingredients and generally aren't as expensive as Legendary poisons, but we're still talking about an average of around 5g+ from what I can tell.

I'm not sure what the point of all this is, but yes, we do spend money on poisons. SMILEY I'm not complaining about it, myself, b/c I like the flexibility and effectiveness that I can gain by investing in good ones. But until you're playing in tier 6 and raiding with your ranger, you'll just have to believe us when we say that the poisons can get expensive. (Though I understand and agree with your point about certain people exaggerating those costs.)

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Old 12-29-2005, 11:41 PM   #86
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The_Wind wrote:
This is a post of mine from earlier, I'm gonna copy and paste it here, and then give you the link.



I'm through with them.  All of them.  I'm a ranger.  I am above this.  I will take what is dealt, and I will make the best of it.  I will overcome such petty desires.  I am a Ranger, and I will live simply as such.  We did it once before, when wizards were unbeatable, we continued to strive hoping for greatness.  We went from groups despising us, to groups rejoicing at our arrival.  If we get nerfed, we will take it in stride, make the most of it, and still show them we are greater.  Its what we do, survive.  The only difference is we, as Rangers, will continue to stick together.  Let the petty squable over who should be greater.  We have better things to do than pity the weak minded and jealous.  Let them drown in their own sorrows.  Some of the masses cannot be saved, its not evil, its just fact.

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I am tired of it

The incessant arguing.  Wizards want to prove how much more mature they are than other classes?  Then take your posts and criticism of the Ranger class back to your own forum.  Make your stand for your class there.  Dont indulge your own selfishness by coming here to flame us for being content.  Dont come here with your ranger alt to prove how unbiased you are in your cries for uberness.  

Ranger forums are not the battleground for fixes to wizards.  I take exception to all of it.  How dare you come in and create strife where peace resided?  I for one dont give a whit about whether or not rangers get nerfed (it happens all of the time), I do care whether or not a class is lobbying for it and that is how you wizards come off as sounding.  Whiny, selfish, and mean spirited.

I for one never encouraged rangers to post in your forums when you began posting in ours.  I also never took my wizzie alt and used her as proof that I must be right about MY views.  In addition, I see extremely little of that going on in our forums.  I do see wizards doing that.  In our forums, it is generally frowned upon when someone makes disparaging remarks about any classes, especially scout classes for obvious reasons, ie they are our cousins.   When rangers were not where they should be in terms of DPS, I did not go out and immediately make a wizard  so I could feel "uber" again.

I play my toon because I have a deep feel for rangers.  This post may have generalizations in it about wizards as a whole, and I understand that just like I am with my ranger, some wizards are with their toon.  So, please, if you wish to reply, try not to lecture me about this.  Also, if you wish to debate...fine...there are other places to debate this than our class forums...like the char. forum, or in PM.

Just do all rangers the big favor of leaving our class forums to our class. 

Peace Health and Happiness

Saihung     

P.S. The problems I have with some of the wizards does not change the fact that I WANT them brought in line with where they should be...I dont want to see any class doing less in groups than they should be able to.

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Old 12-30-2005, 12:26 AM   #87
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It's funny, i can't find a group unless it's got a wizard or warlock in it. and i still get the..............

they /ooc 2 LFG 26-35 pst

I /tell I would like to join if its ok

they /ooc 2 LFG 26-35 MT pst

Not even a no thanks just ignore. ty to all the other players that helped me along tho and they are from all classes, just a little wierd sometimes.

(p.s. how can I complain when i can get 800 or so dps in the first melee at level 26?)

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Old 12-30-2005, 12:26 AM   #88
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I just want to point out something...most of this friction between Rangers and Wizards started because of a thread started by a ranger "bragging" about solo'ing triple up yellows (if I remember)

Now check this out:

 

 
I will likely be warned about linking to another post but I have to show that.
 
They want to use our forums against us...well right there poochymama says she can solo ^^^ yellow heroics. 
 
It is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] shame that you dont have a leg to stand on.  You argue for uberness...you got it pal.  Now go home and solo some more ^^^ yellow heroics, and dont worry....we wont hold it against you that your arguments are hypocritical in origin and nature.
 
Oh...one more thing...I like dots....:smileywink:
 
Just go in peace and fight for your class fixes with honor in your own forum....people get banned for posting food concerns in the wrong forum...I would not like to see that happen here.
 
(cripes I am getting to be a mean old bastidge...I hate fighting/arguing)
 
Peace
 
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:43 AM   #89
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Demlar wrote:

Quote:
Case in point.  This was actually an outright lie by the other poster then, not just an exxaggeration.  I didn't really know, because, while I do PLAY a ranger, I haven't really raided with the ranger.I also do not see why you would have to change resistance poison during the same raid.  Only the actual target really needs that extra debuff, not yard trash, but if you WANT to waste poisons....Oh, and last I checked, resistance debuffs were made from COMMON loam and not rare loam, so they should be much more affordable anyway!

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First off, it wasn’t an outright lie on my part.  I have never used Hoorendous Atrophy, never even seen a vial of it on any broker at any time on Grobb.  Therefore, I didn’t even know it existed.  After reading this thread about it working on epics I went to eq2alchemy.com and looked it up.  After this post I’m making one on my guild boards to have some made for future use.  It was lack of knowledge on my part about 1 poison (and I’m not ashamed to admit I didn’t know about it), not a lie.

Put on 1 debuff poison, it will last past more than 1 named mob.  If the damage poisons work on the first mob then the Shissar I usually have running if fine.  If the mob is completely immune to damage poisons then it would be in my best interest to switch to something like a heat/cold resist, slashing resist, piercing resist poison to increase the dps of the raid as a whole.  If Ranger’s have the utility you keep coming here screaming we have, then changing poisons like this would be a common occurrence and would drive the amount of money we spend on poisons up even more, again shooting a hole in your theory that we don’t pay nearly as much as we say we do.

You’re right, resistance debuff poisons are common and don’t need a rare loam.  As for them being more affordable, come to Grobb and check the broker.  Both in Qeynos and on the fence you can never find any debuff poisons anymore, people are only selling Adeste at 10g a vial.  When you special order the debuff poisons you are still paying 5-6g per vial of debuffs.  It’s all based on server economy, not what we’d like it to be or what we think it should cost us.  The simple fact that I know non-rare poisons and debuffs can be made for about 1 gold per vial is why I started an alchemist alt.


First, so since you hadn't actually used NOR seen a stifle poison.... you decided to simply ASSUME they couldn't be used on epics and stated that AS FACT to defend your position.  But it is NOT a lie?  I am not sure how that works, but alright.  Next time you don't know something, instead of pretending like you do and using it as fact let's just go with what you do know, eh?  Then no one can call you a liar. Second, I am not coming here "screaming" that rangers have utility.  God, where do you get this stuff?  I was simply countering the fact that someone said "Rangers only have DPS," (paraphrased) which is an ABSURD statement.  Period.  Nothing more.  When *I* play MY ranger, I don't just do DPS for my group.  And I SUGGEST that any ranger who ONLY does DPS may not be living up to the full potential of the class. Third, "check the broker?"  EVERYONE knows prices on broker can't be trusted and that direct orders from crafters almost always gets you a better price, usually significantly so. Fourth, from your statemnt about poisons, it seems you do not understand that you do not need to "switch" from damage poisons to resist poisons.  They STACK.
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:45 AM   #90
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Jay42 wrote:

Also, it's worth noting that special effects poisons (like the stifle you mentioned) do not last long at all - maybe 3-5 mobs, depending. So maintaining a constant application of stun or stifle poison does get costly. Yes, debuffs are made from common ingredients and generally aren't as expensive as Legendary poisons, but we're still talking about an average of around 5g+ from what I can tell.

I'm not sure what the point of all this is, but yes, we do spend money on poisons. SMILEY I'm not complaining about it, myself, b/c I like the flexibility and effectiveness that I can gain by investing in good ones. But until you're playing in tier 6 and raiding with your ranger, you'll just have to believe us when we say that the poisons can get expensive. (Though I understand and agree with your point about certain people exaggerating those costs.)


Well, in my defense, I do craft the bottles and vials and work with an alchemist on poisons, up to and including T6.  So the costs involved are not a secret to me despite not being able to use them myself.
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