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Old 08-25-2011, 07:25 PM   #1
etch666

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I dont make a lot of posts but this is something I have to know.

This is in response to looking at the new heroic jewellery procs and also looking at some of the new loot from heroic plane of war loot.

I don't want to spell it out too clearly but if you make heroic items superior to raid gear, even superior to raid gear that no one has even killed yet cause its so difficult, then people who play to raid are going to quit.

In doing this you have made the past months of work trying to kill the HM zones and gearing up for drunder zone progression a complete WASTE OF TIME. 

I would like to avoid my time being wasted in future by finding out of something is being done to address the imbalance of effort vs reward.

Any input greatly appreciated.

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Old 08-25-2011, 07:28 PM   #2
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I think they no longer want to itemize or develop raid content anymore.

Everything is constantly overtuned upon release, with loot that isnt even that good or plentiful in comparison to the actual player effort expended.

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Old 08-25-2011, 08:59 PM   #3
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This new heroic gear is just offering way too much. It should not be superior to normal (launch zones) raid gear, let alone challenge mode (launch zones) raid gear.

Has risk vs reward been completely thrown out of the window? This is just absurd.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:02 PM   #4
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daray wrote:

This new heroic gear is just offering way too much. It should not be superior to normal (launch zones) raid gear, let alone challenge mode (launch zones) raid gear.

Has risk vs reward been completely thrown out of the window? This is just absurd.

This.I cant understand how people that are so utterly out of touch with the game can be doing this kind of development.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:23 PM   #5
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Heck, shouldn't even be above Rygorr honnestly. Anything that takes time to get should always be more awarding.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:33 PM   #6
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daray wrote:

This new heroic gear is just offering way too much. It should not be superior to normal (launch zones) raid gear, let alone challenge mode (launch zones) raid gear.

Has risk vs reward been completely thrown out of the window? This is just absurd.

It should be better than the easy mode raid gear, since half the easy mode raid mobs are easily one groupable.  Just because the mobs are labled x4s doesn't mean they require four groups. 

HM gear is a different story.  In theory, the new HM heroic zone could reasonably drop upgrades to the vanilla HM gear if that gear were required to complete it, but currently the zone seems at least a bit too easy.  I think it's bugged.

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Old 08-25-2011, 09:35 PM   #7
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I am saying this in the most respectful way possible. I honestly dont think that you, SOE developers, know what you are doing to your game. I only play this game for the raid content, I care about nothing else in the game.

A serious question for me would be. What were you thinking when you decided to make 1 group able content items better than 4 group challenge raids? Was it a mistake or are you gonna go through with this?

I mean, is it what you want to do with this game? Are you really really gonna go ahead and do this?

You will lose a lot of raiders. Some are gone already. List is just gonna go on.

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:45 PM   #8
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+1 I'm seeing gear linked that has enormous stats over my EMx4 gear and in some cases, better stats than HM gear ffs. On the first day of a heroic zone release thats just wrong on so many levels. Even if the x4 EM content is relatively easy, why should I now feel that I have to frequent a heroic zone to upgrade it? I shouldn't end of story.
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Old 08-26-2011, 12:09 AM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

+1 I'm seeing gear linked that has enormous stats over my EMx4 gear and in some cases, better stats than HM gear ffs. On the first day of a heroic zone release thats just wrong on so many levels. Even if the x4 EM content is relatively easy, why should I now feel that I have to frequent a heroic zone to upgrade it? I shouldn't end of story.

I was also noticing this and hearing a friend of mine complain about it.

There is no way in Hate that a heroic dungeon drop should be better than a raid piece. Ever. Not unless you're requiring full raid gear to zone in to it. Which these don't.

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Old 08-26-2011, 12:46 AM   #10
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etch666 wrote:

I don't want to spell it out too clearly but if you make heroic items superior to raid gear, even superior to raid gear that no one has even killed yet cause its so difficult, then people who play to raid are going to quit.

Wouldn't that be a loss...  anyways the issue is that the new gear is just too good not that the raid gear is not good enough.

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Old 08-26-2011, 12:55 AM   #11
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Rumor going around is that they aren't re-doing the DoV raid loot so basically there's zero point in raiding anymore. If you want raid quality gear, get a good solid 6 man team and do heroic Plane of War.

On the plus side... SOE is giving people more incentive to break up guilds and quit since, heck, we don't need a raid force anymore to get raid gear.

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Old 08-26-2011, 08:20 AM   #12
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They would better do something about this mess or I am out too.

Right now there are like 2 zones worth being runned: Planes Heroic, Planes Raid (maybe add Drunder HM; yeah, that zone where nothing has been killed yet -or maybe one named? didn't check recently xD-).

This The War of Zek thing has been itemized as if it was a completely new EXP PACK (that's the only explanation to Heroic gear being better than previous expansion raid gear). But it only has 2 zones, so...

Worst move ever.

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Old 08-26-2011, 08:58 AM   #13
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SOE save yourself by coming to this thread and letting us know your revamping DOV items. There are Multiple post on the test forum asking if DOV gear was going to be revamped with no reply. The new heroic content is much to easy to be giving out gear better than DOV em/hm / GU60 Em gear.

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Old 08-26-2011, 09:00 AM   #14
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Ok, I understand that some of you are one grouping Easy mode x4. Our guild is farming to move on to HD on our raid force.  This update has taken the wind out of all that for me. I dropped a belt from the heroic that made my x4 EM belt look like a random instance drop. Please look at this gear. This is not a new expansion or at least let us know what direction that you are taking the game for once.

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Old 08-26-2011, 10:30 AM   #15
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My motivation to play is seriously nerfed by this. Now its about logging in and finding a group? sad bunch of people in that dev team.

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Old 08-26-2011, 12:05 PM   #16
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Yesterday a bunch of people were linking the group instance gear in the chat channels, and almost every item is better than my HM raid gear, yet this stuff is pretty easy to farm.

What is the point to raiding if I can get better gear in relatively easy group zones?

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:09 PM   #17
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What they ought to be doing is making the gear that drops from the most difficult type of content in one GU be equivalent to the gear that drops from the next stage from the previous GU, with the possible exception of the initial expansion lauch stuff.

For instance, the Drunder Heroic loot should have been roughly equivalent to EM x4 release gear.  Drunder x4 EM should have been equivalent to HM x4 release gear.  EoW roughly = Drunder EM.  And solo War of Zek roughly = Drunder heroic.  etc.

I understand that a lot of people would hate this, but in the long term it's really the only viable solution.  If any stage of progress from solo to heroic to EM raid to HM raids gets left behind as more and more is added to the set of zones (heroic never EVER being as good or better than ANY EM raid gear, for instance), then in time it will literally become impossible for a new character to break into that level, without artificially boosting their character's gear level through purchase or alt loot.

Unfortunately, that would mean making a good amount of content obsolete within 2-3 GUs, but with this style of content rollout, it's sadly the only really viable long term solution.  And for those who will come in and talk about having all that content skipped, well, it won't really be current content anymore, and there's no reason to try to force new people to find raids to run that same stuff they've been running for months on end (EM release), just to move on to HM release and EM drunder.  Current GU EM and HM content ought to be achievable by a green raid force (gear wise) within the timeframe of the GU.

I believe that's what the devs might actually be trying to do, though sadly, they're failing and putting out some equipment that's shaving off more of progression than it ought to be.  They also made the mistake of overbalancing Drunder and leaving it that way for far too long, and coupled that with small numbers of drops.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:01 PM   #18
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I just got a Necro/Conjy forarm.

My x4 Forarm has 123 STA/INT, 6.6 Pot/CB, 16.5 CM + Red Slot and Focus

Heroic Forearm?

155 INT/STA

10 CB/Pot

17.1 CM

Yellow Slot + Focus

Oh, it has 1.1% more Reuse on it as well

It's okay though, cause it has less Casting Skills and Mit on it?!?!

They're pretty much removed any need to do any pre-GU61 content.  Sorry, but I cannot justify wasting 9-12 hours a week raiding if the Instance gear you can get in < 1 hour a day is so ridiculously better than it.

This stuff should be Drunder-Heoic level.  It's just way too freaking good to the point that you don't even have to think TWICE about replacing the raid gear.

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Old 08-26-2011, 03:05 PM   #19
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For a change I think nearly everyone is in agreement. Who woulda thunk such a major mess up could be possible and bring everyone together...

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:04 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

For a change I think nearly everyone is in agreement. Who woulda thunk such a major mess up could be possible and bring everyone together...

Kinda funny you say that due to a bunch of us were talking in channels about this earlier. I know people that can't STAND each other that were side-by-side agreeing with each other on how SOE is a bunch of morons to do what they did. If you ever needed someone to be able to get God and Satan to sit at a card table drinking beer together and going "Dude... Items in GU61 are WHACKED OUT!" then SOE is the one to do it.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:12 PM   #21
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Ok, I understand that some of you are one grouping Easy mode x4. Our guild is farming to move on to HD on our raid force.  This update has taken the wind out of all that for me. I dropped a belt from the heroic that made my x4 EM belt look like a random instance drop. Please look at this gear. This is not a new expansion or at least let us know what direction that you are taking the game for once.

I seriously doubt that anyone is 1-grouping the x4 zones, unless they managed to get 12 in a group.

But that said, I agree that there just seems to be little point to bother finishing off the HM stuff when I can get something a little better than a casual pickup group and get better gear in a heroic zone.

While you're at, why not just make the SG PQ gear better than raid gear also.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:22 PM   #22
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Laiina wrote:

I seriously doubt that anyone is 1-grouping the x4 zones, unless they managed to get 12 in a group.

Entire zones? That'd be kinda tough, but Kraytoc's at least is doable.  Certain mobs? Easily.  You could take any group that clears Throne of Storms heroic and get at least Frostbeard dead in EM Kraytoc's x4, and you could possibly make it all the way to Eirreen without much trouble.

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Old 08-26-2011, 04:59 PM   #23
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Anyone 1 grouping Kraytocs doesn't need loot from Kraytocs, unless they're carring an extra healer or something.

Anyone in Ry'Gorr level gear can plow EoW and get loot better than any arid zone currently being cleared.

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Old 08-26-2011, 05:14 PM   #24
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Anyone 1 grouping Kraytocs doesn't need loot from Kraytocs, unless they're carring an extra healer or something.

The gear check on EM Frostbeard is lower than the EM heroic Kael zones.  Sure, it might take 15 minutes to kill the mob if you only have ~200K DPS, but you're rewarded with a higher quantity of loot for the extra time you spent.

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Old 08-26-2011, 06:26 PM   #25
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I want berserker version :/

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Old 08-26-2011, 11:41 PM   #26
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Hmm i thinking.

Maybe this has been done on purpose.

From what i read soe its doing too well with profits and stuff. They are alread shutting down SWG on 12/15/11 so maybe they are looking for a way to shut down EQ2 aswell without losing face by introducing these kinds of "content fixes".

People lose interest in the game,the server population dwindles into nothingness and presto mission accomplished....

Well maybe not and i am just indulging too much in conspiracy theories SMILEY

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Old 08-26-2011, 11:56 PM   #27
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WTB : Someone with half a clue, and who actually plays EQ2, to be in charge of item stats. Someone who knows the difference between a raid, and a heroic instance. Someone who can fathom a general chain of progression, and risk vs reward.I try to look on the positive side, but any time the current item guy does anything, it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.

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Old 08-27-2011, 01:58 AM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

WTB : Someone with half a clue, and who actually plays EQ2, to be in charge of item stats. Someone who knows the difference between a raid, and a heroic instance. Someone who can fathom a general chain of progression, and risk vs reward.I try to look on the positive side, but any time the current item guy does anything, it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.

I'll do it! But you won't like it.

First thing, get rid of crit mit. Second thing, get rid of crit chance over 100%. Then i'll fix these items...

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Old 08-27-2011, 02:07 AM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:

WTB : Someone with half a clue, and who actually plays EQ2, to be in charge of item stats. Someone who knows the difference between a raid, and a heroic instance. Someone who can fathom a general chain of progression, and risk vs reward.I try to look on the positive side, but any time the current item guy does anything, it demonstrates a complete lack of understanding.

Point proven again. I don't like Avirodar's ideas usually and disagree with nearly everything he posts except now. GU61 did bring everyone together to actually agree on one thing. It (censored). Redo completely.

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Old 08-27-2011, 02:17 AM   #30
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Fighter items have no multi-attack.. fix please :/

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