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Old 03-24-2006, 11:40 PM   #91
Katsugen

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I didn't notice recliam arrow was adjusted, so my impressions so far might need to be adjusted. I was pretty annoyed to see my grizzy bow unchanged. From the test feedback it looked like the CA dmg increase would barely move us up. Focus Aim is rather nice tho, and I'm surprised how many CA's I can get off in that 10secs. I raid every other nite, and we have some rather good players. Before U20 I could parse #1 on a whim, with minimal effort, and all of it ranged. Post U21 half the time I was landing about 5-6 on the list sometimes below zerkers and monks. Last nite was better, but not much. I was still below the wizzy's, summoners, and assassin, but thats where I was before. The gap is slightly better, but still over 100dps. Long fights I tend to do very good w/ dps, especially if the wizzy's go oop. I did make it to #2 on the parse last nite, but only cuz the wizzys and summoners died in AE and the death bug forced them to relog (assassin still beat me by 150dps). Now I'm ot crying for crazy dps. I just feel we need a little bump to move us a little closer in dps range to the rest. This patch was a start, it certianly moved me closer. And now I know that the reclaim arrows is fixed, I should be even closer. I just hope that my eventual bow fix will get me where I want to be. It's getting close, just a few more tweaks. Trap fixed, bird stealth fixed, more items w/ +ranged.
As for stream, i used it twice pre-nerf. I had re-rolled and just got it when the change came. I use it now only when mob has deadly AE and all my CA timers are up, and I'm low power. I actually think it's pretty good for that situattion, but I wish it used no power at all. But with the bumps to auto atk (bow w/ better DR and T7 claimed arrows) since stream is kinda slow it might not even be as good as auto atk. Will have to check into that. I don't solo, but I did try out lunge and at master1 stuns for the full duration. I actually might need to test this, it seems w/ such a quick recast that this might need to be changed (recast time not duration). But since I don't really solo I'll leave that up to them to comment on. So overall, quick response for soe who generally can't fix themselves out of a paper bag, although alot of stuff was over looked, it's a step in the right direction. The ranger community just needs to remind soe to keep taking those steps and that they are not quite done with us.
 
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:41 PM   #92
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Ail wrote:

With bow being slow that's not really an issue.

You do the CAs in between the auto-attacks ( you don't really have to do anything, if an auto attack is about to happen while you are casting a CA the system delays it to fire as soon as the CA has fired.

Message Edited by Ail on 03-24-200608:15 AM


I do the CA's between Auto-attacks? I never knew that :smileytongue: (im being a smarty-pants)

I Solo mostly so Bow CA's get used on the pull and now when I can root/stun the ugly bugger trying to rip my face off

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Old 03-24-2006, 11:48 PM   #93
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On a side note with auto-attack, critting for over 2k with a poison proc and quick shot makes me all giggly.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:52 PM   #94
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You may not like the skill, and you may think i was dependent on it, but the bottom line is this.  I can do NOTHING else while stream of arrows is going, so for 30 seconds i must rely solely on the dps from stream of arrows alone.  I can do 37% more dps with just auto ranged attack and thats without using my killing instinct.  Whats the point in using the skill?  Perhaps you fail to see the logic there but quite frankly that is idiotic.  If i can do nothing else while streaming it should do more dmg than my auto attack period.
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:53 PM   #95
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Unfortunately, that means no more iron / tin arrows if you really want to stay on top SMILEYMirdo.

I haven't actually checked but can we even buy tin arrows anymore?  I saw something about low level gear not being listed on vendors but haven't looked around any.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:10 AM   #96
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I'll try parsing some tonight and see how it changed.  FYI pre-LU21 I was doing about 300-450dps in group-buff situation in KOS sanctum.  A much less well-equipped monk 2 levels higher was doing 400-550.  (dps monk, not MT)   I expect with the changes that I might equal him but not surpass him, since I expect about 100dps to be added.  A poor-played assassin without high level skills/gear from what I could tell was doing 500-600.  Ow.
 
My impression has been that perhaps with a better parry rate our DPS could be a lot better.  There's an insane amount of blocked/parried CAs and auto-attacks.  I'm not sure if it affects melee classes.  Honestly, my wizard gets about the same % of resists compared to my parries only when fighting orange mobs. 
 
My best DPS comes from fights where the auto-attack procs a lot, so it's already a bit up and down from that.  When you add in the parries, ranger dps is really all over the place.  My wizard has a much more narrow dps range in comparison.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:10 AM   #97
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lilmohi wrote:

Unfortunately, that means no more iron / tin arrows if you really want to stay on top SMILEYMirdo.

I haven't actually checked but can we even buy tin arrows anymore?  I saw something about low level gear not being listed on vendors but haven't looked around any.
Bowyer in the baubble is still selling iron arrows - not much good really unless you don't mind not doing the extra damage AA now generates.Oh and with regards to SoA. Iirc the ancient teachings weren't designed to scale with level or be replaced? So by 65 the usefulness of that spell should be well on the wane anyway (when the next weird skill is given)? I know it's pretty bad now - probably worse than natural degrading would account for but doesn't it mean that it would have been virtually dead by lvl 70 regardless of the proc nerfs? The biggest problem seems to be it's output in the 55 to 65 range. I could be wrong - I so often am SMILEYMirdo.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:23 AM   #98
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At first look I knew they broke the trap from the update. From playing the original EQ I am used to patches and repatches and more repatches. I think the DPS problem is with the fact that most of us rangers have App1 and 2 skills maybe even some Adept 1 to 3's. So the rare Rangers that have mostly all "Masters" do way to much DPS. So in order to balance them they goof up the poor players that can't afford to buy the 4 to 7 pp scrolls.  As far as the update I'll take any increase in DPS tell they get it right.
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:39 AM   #99
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Stream of Arrows was procing poison, gleaming strike and Arrow Flurry for me last night on multiple shots rather than just the first.  I didn't have any procs from my dual wielders, so no idea if those work or not now, but doubt they do.
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:10 AM   #100
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Not posting to be a fanboi or a whiner just saying what I did last night and if you find it useful your welcome...if you don't find it useful then I'm sure Jay has plenty of popcorn you can help him throw :smileytongue:

Did I have fun last night.....YES.....but I always have fun so no big surprise.

Solo for about 2 hours last night could have grouped just didn't feel like it.

For the record Focus rocks!!!  I started out last night with a caster mob (I wanted something that wouldn't rush right at me) Focus > Triple > Precise > 1 auto bow shot = dead mob.  Now let me explain before you call bullcrap.  Even con no arrow solo mob all 3 arrows from Triple hit and crit, both arrows from Precise hit and crit, the auto bow shot hit, crit, and procced gleaming and poison.  Now this never happened again the rest of the evening but just seeing it happen once lets me know it could happen again. SMILEY  I did not see a crit on sniper or stealthy (but it sure wasn't from lack of trying) I did get crits from Focus on every other ranged CA I tried.

Melee was fun as well.  The new root gives a whole new option to my HO/Ranged CA/Backstab dance.  Before I would use Cheap shot and then it was a choice between back pedal and fire or go for the backstab now I can have it all.  I would pull with Stealthy or a combo of Leg Shot/Debilitating.  Then Lucky Break > Snipe > Lunge (Ringing Blow SMILEY ) > back pedal and Triple > Rip (always need arrows) > PBS > Precise > (If its still kicking) Lucky Break > Cheap Shot > (run through mob) Longshank > Direblade and pull next mob SMILEY

Now Trap was borked last night but they know about it so no reason to cry here.  I still pulled group (not heroic) mobs without the trap just hit Dance of Trees and watch the parry/miss display SMILEY  Still able to get ranged CAs off in the fight just no stealth backstabs until the last mob.

Overall  no I wasn't doing Pre LU20 damage but I also wasn't praying for procs for all my damage.  I was able to deal damage and hold my own that even with adds a little def stance and some skill saw me win more then I had to Evac from. SMILEY

Again like I said I had Fun last night.

 

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Old 03-25-2006, 02:37 AM   #101
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After all the hype.... sigh.

WHY do you hate us so much SoE?

You recognized a problem with our DPS LU20, and this was a band-aid, a non-fix.

Auto- attack with bow- is NOWHERE NEAR my auto attack melee. It hasnt changed one tiny bit, delay's still the same on all my bows- and auto melee with 2 fast weapons and all the procs still BLOWS AWAY ranged auto.

Inc. ranged auto attack was one of the main highlights of this update... so why did you do NOTHING to it? You need to reduce all bow and ranged weapons timers by half to come even close to dual-wield melee auto.

The much anticipated root, 4 seconds, helps soloing (like i care at 70), but i have it at M1, and the nice dot is gone, its a HUGE reduction in damage for that attack.

Ive been playing 'ol skylance since day one... and you MUST either really get our DPS up, OR give us SOME utility like ALL other dps classes. I really am about done with this ranger bashing.

HURRY UP vanguard.

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Old 03-25-2006, 02:44 AM   #102
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After all the hype.... sigh.

WHY do you hate us so much SoE?

You recognized a problem with our DPS LU20, and this was a band-aid, a non-fix.

Auto- attack with bow- is NOWHERE NEAR my auto attack melee. It hasnt changed one tiny bit, delay's still the same on all my bows- and auto melee with 2 fast weapons and all the procs still BLOWS AWAY ranged auto.

Inc. ranged auto attack was one of the main highlights of this update... so why did you do NOTHING to it? You need to reduce all bow and ranged weapons timers by half to come even close to dual-wield melee auto.

The much anticipated root, 4 seconds, helps soloing (like i care at 70), but i have it at M1, and the nice dot is gone, its a HUGE reduction in damage for that attack.

Ive been playing 'ol skylance since day one... and you MUST either really get our DPS up, OR give us SOME utility like ALL other dps classes. I really am about done with this ranger bashing.

HURRY UP vanguard.

Oh yeah, whats up with the HORRIFIC design and colour of the relic armor???

HOW do i go out in public looking like this??? The depends wearing fat-[Removed for Content] mini dress look is THE worst in game. Right click. destroy.

Pathfinder Lord Skylancer lvl 70 Ranger, ripped from his happy Oggok home to the zoo like madness of BB hell. Ya, and thanks for that again SoE, there is a reason i chose a low pop server.

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Old 03-25-2006, 03:54 PM   #103
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OK so I did a bunch of group xp tonight in Sanctum/TT.  (level 60-61 and in t6 legendary/fabled)  There was a fury and a troubie in the group buffing me as well.  On average dps was roughly 350-500, occasionally bursting to 600 or dropping to 250 depending on how the fight went.  This is about 50-75 dps more than before LU21, taking into effect a bit of the beneficial effects of troube/fury buffs.  (In raw numbers it's about 50-100 more, or ~20%) 
 
While a step in the right direction, LU21 clearly does not adaquately address our dps problems.  A well-played/equipped rogue could do about the same easily.  A similar assassin could easily be 200-400 dps more on average.  And we wont' discuss what summoners can do.  But, I will say at least I feel like I'm contributing again.  The bard and paladin were not out-dpsing me.  heh.
 
With another similar boost I think we will be very close to where we need to be.  In particular, some of the skills do a silly amount of damage considering the cast time.  Triple fire especially is a joke.  How often do all three land? 
 
The arrow situation has to be looked at immediately.  I went through about 20 stacks of arrows, and that is summoning as often as I can.  That's more than a plat right there.  I wouldn't mind if buying the darn things resulted in a dps boost, such as used to be the case with poisons. 
 
Finally, I think the dev team needs to seriously look at what is going on with parries/blocks.  It seemed like many, many of my AAs and CAs were blocked.  It was especially ridiculous when I'd start focus fire, try to rear-stealth for the big hit and the rear stealthing attack didn't land.  Happened about 1/3 the time.  ARghhh.  There is just something wrong there, it seems like one-third of my attacks dont' land even if it's white or blue.  I would expect that kind of thing to happen with oranges.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:23 PM   #104
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Speaking of block and parry again....

Yesterday I went to TS, FR, and EL in an attempt to spawn some distresed merchants so I could buy the creature catalogs and squeez a little AA out of them.In TS, against level 20-21 gnolls in the first crater, I was seeing a DISTURBING number of blocks and parries. Granted they were heroics, but I am level 70.Apparently level doesnt affect their ability to block or parry me. I saw just as many as if I were fighting level 70 ravasects... I think that mob balancing is out ofwhack in comparison to PC balancing. I seriously doubt a level 20 toon in full fabled and masters would never be able to block or parry a level 70 mob. And Idoubt the fight would last moer than one shot.

/shrug

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Old 03-27-2006, 12:05 AM   #105
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Oh and Evac is STILL borked!What fun it was last night to evac and to have the train of mobs follow us to the evac point in the zone.
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Old 03-27-2006, 02:14 AM   #106
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We got chased all the way to zone line in Gates last night - didn't even Evac, just revived - and a few seconds later, the raid mob that killed us in the first place showed up and killed us again. SMILEY
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Old 03-27-2006, 08:34 AM   #107
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That elemental in Gates is persistant.  It's just keeps flying around and hunts down every single raid member until you're all dead.  Evac only prolongs the inevitable.  LOL.  If you revive while someone is still alive, then it will hunt you down and kill you again.  I learned this the hard way.:smileysurprised:
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Old 03-27-2006, 08:57 PM   #108
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Jay42 wrote:
We got chased all the way to zone line in Gates last night - didn't even Evac, just revived - and a few seconds later, the raid mob that killed us in the first place showed up and killed us again. SMILEY

OOOOOHHHHH, an issue I can actually help out with here. Check it out....The mobs in Gates are sorta buggy, especially if they are trap mobs. What happens is, when you revive - for just a split second - your corpse stands up before you are ported to the revive point. If you are close enough to a mob for it to see you, it does, and it locks onto you and follows your body to the revive area and also locks onto any other living raid members who have revived before you. You need to tell raid members to NOT revive if they are close enough to a mob to be seen. If they are, tell them to wait for it to path away. If the mob is not a pather, have them /leave raid before they revive, that way only they die when they revive and not the entire raid since they will no longer be attached to the raid party. It took us a few unneeded wipes and naked people before we figured out What was happening and how to do that. It gets especially bad back around the statue court. I promise this will work like a charm!

edit*  And of course, make sure that everyone knows to wait for the raid leader to call revive, or at the very last, not to revive until EVERYONE is dead or mob has reset.

Message Edited by Dirtgirl on 03-27-200608:59 AM

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Old 03-27-2006, 11:54 PM   #109
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Wow, that's good info to have. I don't know how often we'll return to Gates (seems like most ppl just don't like that zone), but I'll be sure to bring this up next time we wipe there. SMILEY  Thanks!
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:49 AM   #110
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The changes were alright, but I think I'm still on the fence...can I kill stuff? sure...am I tier 1 dps...not really...but I feel more like tier 2...better.

Am I able to solo? yeah...but I find that kiting and using nothing but autoattack dishes out the best damage...I could be missing something, and it's entirely possible I'm seeing different numbers because my gear isn't the best and I've got a mix of app4, adept1, adept3, master1 and master2 skills, but shouldn't CA's do most of the damage and not autoattack? 

Maybe my expectations were incorrect, but I was hoping that with the changes I wouldn't be forced to kite things around...that I would be able to dish out a good amount of damage up front then melee...or if not that, at least do the mage root / nuke deal (basically kiting I know, but at least you dont have to run ALL them time).

Just so people know, currently I open with stealthy shot (master2), leg shot, back up and use nothing but autoattack.  When that wears off, I stun, use the snare line if leg shot isn't back up, try to squeeze in triple shot line...but most of the time, I just see myself backpeddling using autoattack since I get weapon / poison procs off more often AND the increased damage of a plain arrow...am I doing something wrong? because I dont even feel it's necessary to use a CA...I do less dps when I do.

In groups, if there are people who can haste me, I find myself shooting a ton of arrows just doing autoattack, and way decrease my dps using CA's.

I find that I'm getting close to tier1 dps again (solid tier2 dps), but the fact that I can do more dps using autoattack and not CA's (please correct me if there's a technique I'm missing) tells me that the tweaks while nice were done in the wrong spots.

 

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Old 03-28-2006, 02:48 AM   #111
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illumin wrote:

the fact that I can do more dps using autoattack and not CA's


I'm sorry but... *boggles* What bow are you using and what lvl are you?
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:17 AM   #112
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Boogles 2....

And ummm... stream... off hotbar.... has anybody ever seen a proc when streaming?...

NO MORE MINISKIRTS

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Old 03-28-2006, 06:58 AM   #113
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Atleast I can say once upon a time, I had maximum fun with the ranger class.  Today on my server there were 5 players searching for goups between the 40-50 level bracket.  Guess what these players all had incommon?  They where all rangers no one wanted, it's sad when the changes SOE institutes leave a class at a disadvantage in the eyes of the server community.

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Old 03-28-2006, 01:02 PM   #114
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57 (i basically stopped� leveling ranger� to get alchemy up to 70), imbued ironwood, adeste's disruption, bite of the shissar, phantasmic whatever (stun poison) and indium arrows...the only things of note that increase autoattack is i'm wearing fbss and have shroud of the forest at a3.

Open with stealthy shot (m2), follow up with leg shot (a3) then autoattack...when leg wears off, stun back up fire triple (cant remember if this is a3 or m2...if there is an m2), then the fire shot line (a3), then ensnare (a1), autoattack.

bigger chunks of health go down when i just use the autoattack / quick shot...especially if i've got brutal instict up and running...each arrow is doing between 500 - 1000 alone then add the 400 - 700 (including tics) for poison.�  I fire off some CA's when the mobs get stunned, but their health bar barely budges compared to autoattack (with exception of stealthy fire...that does the most)...i try to time the CA's between the autoattacks, but maybe due to my slower computer, i find that that i mess up the timing on the autoattack and that slows me down a bit.

the above scenario� would be� totally different for the person who has top notch gear and all a3 and master level skills...i've got a few a3, a couple masters, and the rest at app4 or a1 level, and mediocre gear.

since i've stated that i've got mediocre gear, does it make sense that autoattack does more damage than CA's?�  has anyone even checked to see how much damage their CA's are doing vs quickshot?�  last group i was in, a dirge and some other mage hasted me, and i was like a machinegun...CA's definately lowered dps since they� stopped several 400 - 600 damage arrows (plus whatever procs i got) while "casting".

i'm totally open to the idea that i'm seeing different effects due to running a gimped machine, but it shouldn't be that bad.

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Old 03-28-2006, 08:51 PM   #115
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I'm finding the changes have improved us over LU20, especially the 4 sec stun which is a godsend. I asked a high level wizard about Ice Comet and was stunned to hear it does the same damage as our 15 minute recast ability but with a 45 sec timer. However I guessed there was some other reason why the timers were so different as they generally dont parse much higher or lower in long fights than I did.Unfortunately its pretty unbalancing in the solo game since they can pretty much finish off mobs so quickly with a devastating attack that has a fast recast. In groups its pretty balanced but the solo game (imo) isnt. I suppose the solo game is lower priority though since it IS an MMO after all SMILEYI'm definitely a much better Ranger post LU21 than pre LU21. Apart from the fact I have Xegonite armour now and look like I'm wearing a bra all the time SMILEY
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:59 AM   #116
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lilmohi wrote:

Unfortunately, that means no more iron / tin arrows if you really want to stay on top SMILEYMirdo.

I haven't actually checked but can we even buy tin arrows anymore?  I saw something about low level gear not being listed on vendors but haven't looked around any.
Remember they said the changed some of the stuff vendor's sell? Remember the fish seller next to the city merchant in QH? While he still says "I have fresh items every week", his tag is now Bowyer and yes he does sell the tin arrows. I bought them Sunday at level 69.
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Old 03-30-2006, 02:26 AM   #117
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Cronon wrote:Remember they said the changed some of the stuff vendor's sell? Remember the fish seller next to the city merchant in QH? While he still says "I have fresh items every week", his tag is now Bowyer and yes he does sell the tin arrows. I bought them Sunday at level 69.
Thanks Narsan!!  Been looking for cheap arrows everywhere.  What about fulginate or indium anywhere?  Same NPC?
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Old 03-30-2006, 01:23 PM   #118
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All tiers of arrows are available in Elddar Grove.With autoattack now hitting for over 4k with Bylze's bow when using T7 arrows and focus our DPS is qute expensive. T7 arrows from vendor are about 6.5g / stack. What really stinks for woodworkers is this is close to cost price for them - helping absolutely nobody.Mirdo.
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Old 03-30-2006, 07:22 PM   #119
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skylancer wrote:

Oh yeah, whats up with the HORRIFIC design and colour of the relic armor???

HOW do i go out in public looking like this??? The depends wearing fat-[Removed for Content] mini dress look is THE worst in game. Right click. destroy.

Pathfinder Lord Skylancer lvl 70 Ranger, ripped from his happy Oggok home to the zoo like madness of BB hell. Ya, and thanks for that again SoE, there is a reason i chose a low pop server.


I know it wasnt relic armor but this is almost as bad as the Granny Panties my Templar was running around in for 10 levels SMILEY

I didnt group for the longest time because My elf just looked *ahem* a bit too festive SMILEY

I dont like the mini skirt and tube top look though...hehe

Saihung

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