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Old 01-10-2006, 02:26 AM   #181
Carna

 
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I'm not sure where the notion of 85% too little dps comes from. To assume that is to assume that Tier 1 is supposed to be doing Ranger levels of dps.

Maybe the Brigand at 550 dps is in the right place for Tier 2, and maybe  the appropriate place then for the Wizard to be is 750 dps. Somewhere around where the poster speculates Assassins as Tier 1 currently are.

An awaful lot of angst among Asassins and Wizards -- allowing that Wizard are definately short of where any reasonable measure might be -- is that Rangers are taken as where Tier 1 is supposed to be. I personally dispute the validity of that assumtion. I'm not convinced Tier 1 is supposed to be outperfoming Tier 2 by up to 85% (and I note this is the upper limit not the average margin).

I think a lot of people are quietly aware that Rangers are enjoying a "golden era" and personally I'm happy not to rock the boat, and to let them enjoy it. We're all capable of rolling a Ranger if we desperately feel the need to be uber. But I don't think it's valid that we distort our view into thinking that's how things are supposed to be.

My concern arises from the fact that Rogues (Tier 2) are a very underrepresented pair of classes, and if you run away with widening Tier 1 and 2 damage differences you'll simply do away with representation of those classes completely... a couple of times I've realised there's only myself and one other Brigand logged into the server... Despite the very real issues of the Wizard, that do need addressed as a matter of importance, the class is very far from underrespresented.

I get very concerned when I see fights with Rogues parsing 750 and Rangers parsing 1400. That's not how it's meant to be. And it should not be where Wizards think they should be. I'm happy to shrug and simply let Ranger have their fun, but if Wizards and Assassins start clamouring to be at that point then we need to revisit what the hell is happening with bow procs, and what the hell is happening with Conjurors.... I personally think Wizards and Conjurors need to swap places, and we should just pretend bow procs aren't working the way they are.

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Old 01-10-2006, 02:37 AM   #182
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I agree.For me, there is no "X class is supposed to have YYY DPS."  There is no such gauge.  The only thing we really have is the released DPS tier which is a RELATIVE statement.  Thus, we cannot say that "X class is okay where they are" IF they are not relatively situated in their DPS tier.  I see NO basis for any player to come and say "My class' DPS is right where it should be."  I mean, what does that even MEAN?  It doesn't actually mean anything without context!  As a multi-archtype player, when classes are doing DPS values relatively to their supposed DPS tier placements, that's when I will be happy.The point here, folks, is NOT whether Rangers are doing too much damage period.  It's whether the DPS classes are performing to spec (i.e. damage consistent with their DPS peer group and relatively following the DPS tier chart).
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Old 01-10-2006, 04:36 AM   #183
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Sokolov wrote:

For those who mention stuff like "Wizards do just as much DPS" or "Some wizard saw a ranger beat him on one raid and assumes it's all like that," you may want to look at this thread:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=89020


I read that last week.  As it was posted in the appropriate forum, it may actually get some attention.

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Old 01-10-2006, 05:30 AM   #184
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How long before this gets shut down?

I have a few issues with the mage class but one is above all others. They (all but 1) are all stuck up. Just once have I met a mage that has said more than 3 words to me, and every time I run in to a mage that person looks on everyone else with contempt. (no I am not blaming all mages just the ones I have met) So it does not supprise me much that someone from the mage class posts here, but while mage classes have some other uses in raids rangers have but one. So if we can not out parse in dps what good are we? If we can not help the team we will be on our own or at the mercy of "guilt" invitations so we can actually raid. Why is that hard to understand?

Side note Jay42 why do you have so much time to post??? hehe (Its a joke)

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Old 01-10-2006, 06:32 AM   #185
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Having both a T6 ranger and wizard, i can tell you the ranger does better dps in a group setting by far.  They are similarly equipped.  The wizard actually fares better in longer fights such as raids or in multi-mob encounters, but not enough to make up for the rest.  In your typical group fighting where the mob dies fairly quickly, it's not even close. 
 
On the other hand, paying for t6 poisons really hurts so... SMILEY
 
The wizard also has more util for a group, although not enough to make up for the dps gap.
 
If there was caster gear available that would raise the wizard's int to the same level that the scouts get str and agi (1 skill capped versus 2), then I think it would be even.  So it may not be a skill problem so much as not being able to max out the skills for the wizard.  The scout gets far more stats from their gear towards their damage since they split 2, whereas the wizard needs int very badly to do damage, and it's hard to find a lot of int.  Even if you get a lot of int, you get capped...
 
Just my thoughts.
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Old 01-10-2006, 07:31 AM   #186
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ok here the deal all you wizies and other cloth types you guys get group buffs and the like pets and all manor of cool things
 
 
Ranger on the other hand get 2 self buffs agro control and haste...  we also have short lasting buffs self only of 10 second haste 36 second haste and a 1 min haste with ever growing recast, and pathfinding thats it the rest is dps thats all.... no group str buffs no power feeds no nothing we bring nothing to the raid but dps and we have to pay for that...
 
 
my last bill for posions was 12pp... for 120 poisons that will last me to expation........... thats not counting arrows.

Message Edited by ShadarLocoth on 01-09-200608:33 PM

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Old 01-10-2006, 08:16 PM   #187
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Admhel wrote:
I hate rangers because... I have to chase them all the time whenever they ask for my fire proc that has a casting distance of 10m :smileymad:
 
Lol beyond that, you guys are alright.. ya'll don't need nerfage. The wizards that mostly complain are peeps who are also envious of summoners. Raiding doesn't necessarity mean that you have to be the best dps. As a ranger that's your job.. you pummel the hell that's in the mob, but as a wizard, we have other roles such as mana dumps, fire procs etc. It's not all about the glory of an individual, but the glory of a team once a big bad boss mob is dead.
 
Besides, I wouldn't want SoE to take my ability to solo any ^^^ yellow mob. SMILEY


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Old 02-07-2006, 10:06 PM   #188
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Xney wrote:
Having both a T6 ranger and wizard, i can tell you the ranger does better dps in a group setting by far.  They are similarly equipped.  The wizard actually fares better in longer fights such as raids or in multi-mob encounters, but not enough to make up for the rest.  In your typical group fighting where the mob dies fairly quickly, it's not even close. 
 
On the other hand, paying for t6 poisons really hurts so... SMILEY
 
The wizard also has more util for a group, although not enough to make up for the dps gap.
 
If there was caster gear available that would raise the wizard's int to the same level that the scouts get str and agi (1 skill capped versus 2), then I think it would be even.  So it may not be a skill problem so much as not being able to max out the skills for the wizard.  The scout gets far more stats from their gear towards their damage since they split 2, whereas the wizard needs int very badly to do damage, and it's hard to find a lot of int.  Even if you get a lot of int, you get capped...
 
Just my thoughts.

Int is not hard to get,
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:19 PM   #189
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Holy Necro Batman!
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