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Old 07-25-2005, 09:35 PM   #1
SavinDwa

 
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Let start of by saying that I'm bring the subject up with great trepidation .... at the moment everything is working, there is just a small issue, but my fear is that it will get half fixed and make things worse .. so any developers/personal from SOE please understand the issue in its entirety before you cange anything.
 
I have a mid level ranger (level 39) and a Woodworker (level 3SMILEY so I am seeing both sides of the problem.
 
first lets state my understanding of how things work (you nevr know, I could be wrong)
 
1) Combat arts are totally independent of the arrow type used -- so you may as well be using 6 copper iron hunting arrows bought from a vendor.
2) The damage and perhaps chance to hit of a ranged weapon (bow) is impacted by the level and type of the arrow.
3) A ranger's best and most damaging combat arts use arrows.  I have used as many as 1,100 in a 180 minute session (I'm not exagerating).
4) The time it would take for me (woodworker) to make arrows for my ranger per session (I use an average of 700 arrows every 3 hours) is about 80 minutes including WROTs and all sub combines.  That is based on me doing 28 pristione final combines (25 in each batch).  I may not quite be the fastest, but I bet I'm pretty close.  Perhaps someone can do it in 60 minutes?  But the problem is that its still ridiculous.
5) Most tank classes only use the bow to pull and using more than 200 in a 3 hour session would be a huge amount.  So the issue appears to exist only with Rangers (maybe predators as well?)
6) My experience is that I use about about 5 arrows with combat arts for every 1 arrow used firing my bow if I really concentrate.  Its normally more like 9 to 1.  The reason is that when my ranged CAs are cycling I go inclose to use other CAs and my dual wield.  So my bow probably only fires 3 times every 30 seconds and that is if I remember to swap to ranged when I pull back outside to use my ranged CAs.
 
Given this, I may as well use iron hunting arrows.  The damage difference (I have tested) between feyiron and iron hunting is about an extra 450 damage in every 10,000 I deliver intotal bewteen posons,  CAs,  ranged and dual wield.  Hardly worth an extra 7-10 gold of cost in a three hour session.  Espcially when I frequently have to be careful not to pull aggro anyway.
 
So ... the biggest possible consumers of arrows (Rangers) are betetr off using 6 copper iron hunting arrows bought from a vendor.  I don't even bother with makeshift, its not worth the effort.  I just purchase 12 stacks of iron hunting arrrows and am good to go.  Rip produces me about 2-3 stacks of feyiron arrows in a session and I use them as toys to see if I can get a high hit with my bow late in the even ing LOL.
 
So .. what do we do about this?
 
Maybe nothing.....
 
Or maybe you could add a new arrow type called at t2,t3, t4 and t5 that can only be used by predator/ranger.  It is made in batches where a pristine combine produces 200.  So to proiduce 700 would take about 10 minutes.  The cost should be about the same as makeing 25 of the other types of arrows (feyiron Bodkin for insatnce).  Now you could change the CAs to have their damage modified based on the arrow type .. which makes more sense.  But you need to do both changes.  DO NOT CHANGE COMBAT ARTS to be dependent on arrow type until you can make these special arrows in larger batches or you will really hurt the ranger class. 
 
BTW I have a lot of cash lyinga round and actually tend to buy 10 stacks of feyiron arrows from the vendor.  But its a stupid waste of 10 gold and I know it. 
 
the way things are right now woodworkers have no market for their arrows.  The ned is not there and they could produce them in enough quantities to satisfy the major customer (ranger)
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:16 PM   #2
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good post, one thing I found particularily astonishing is that the dmg difference is only 450 per 10,000 arrows, that is horrible, SoE definately needs to address this issue.

But then again on the other hand, if we are still kicking out massive dmg with a bow with cheap arrows as expensive arrows, why are we complaining, I would just as soon pay as little as possible for arrows, playing a ranger is expensive enough as it is, considering the cost of poisons and what not, playing a ranger/assasin has to be one of the most expensive classes to play.

And another thing that comes to mind is why dont you bother with makeshift carbonite arrows, not critisizing, im just curious, because I have the adept3 and if I watch it, I keep a 12slot bag full all the time, and I am pretty self sustained as far as arrows go, I do drop a little, but in down time I fill it back up fairly quickly.

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Old 07-25-2005, 10:17 PM   #3
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I use the Makeshift arrows....I have about 1000 on me at all times.  This is because I am usually nowhere near any vendor most of the time.  I spend about 98% of my time out in the wilds.
 
I know that some arrow types will not hit certain mobs...Immunities and such.  I have not run into a consistant problem of mobs being immune, so I stick with the makeshift arrows.  But then I am not an uber player like some others that raid a lot.
 
I mostly solo with the occasional group.  This explains why I'm only level 26.6 right now.  lol
 
I have a pretty good success rate with the free arrows so I tend not to have a reason to get other ones.  I haven't spent one cp on an arrow since I got the skill.  Mostly because I don't want to go back into town.
 
 
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:35 PM   #4
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The only reason I see to use the "Better Arrows". Is when ether only using your ranged combate in group(though this lowers your overall DPS as your not using your Melee CAs), or When soloing as every little bit of extra damage you can do while Kiting is good.
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:38 PM   #5
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You guys may, or may not, be aware that we fought this battle a looooong time ago.  But the issue wasn't so much based on damage done by arrow tier, but the cost of crafted arrows.  In the beginning, even our CA's were effected by arrow type/tier.  So if you wanted your DPS to be where it should be, purchasing crafted arrows was nearly a necessity..especially in raiding situations where mob immunities come into play.  Also, if I remember correctly, Rip/Tear were not gaining an arrow appropriate to their tier.  This was a bug and fortunately fixed.  The general desire here on the boards was to somehow bring the price of crafted arrows down, i.e. more arrows per combine, etc.  SOE's solution was to eliminate the effect of tier/type of arrow from the CA equation.  Although suitable at the time, it was not exactly what we wanted.  If you're asking for arrow type/tier to effect CA damage again, I doubt that SOE will reverse that, and indeed I would not at all like to see that change come back if there were no other changes to accompany it. It's sort of a 'be careful what you ask for' kind of thing, because it used to be much worse than it is now.  Don't get me wrong.  I'm a woodworker as well, and I'd love to be able to make my own arrows.  But it isn't cost/time effective.  It is an issue that needs to be addressed.
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:59 PM   #6
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Zholain wrote:
You guys may, or may not, be aware that we fought this battle a looooong time ago. 

Hahahaha, god, we're so old.  SMILEY  Somebody bring me my walker, dammit!
 
Yeah, Zho's right, PLEASE be careful what you ask for. We absolutely do not want to go back to the days of yore when you HAD to purchase arrows and summoned ammo was about as useful as summoned food. Frankly, I only ever use Makeshift Arrows; I don't bother buying a single one. I know... woodworkers get the shaft here (get it?) but the selfish, childish, "we're already the most expensive class to play" part of me says this: "It's not my job to provide woodworkers with a market for their products."
 
I already feel like I NEED to buy crafted poisons b/c they're markedly better than NPC poisons; are we going to do the same thing for arrows? Lock us into a forced dependency on crafters which may arbitrarily decide that you need to pay X gold for Y number of arrows every Z days?
 
I'm not being very reasonable here, but dependency on human crafters is a sore spot for me. Alchemists are already bleeding me dry by asking for 7-9g per vial of common T5 damage poison on my server. The last thing I need is money-hungry woodworkers charging me twice as much as they should for arrows that I need to use to fulfill a good part of my potential damage in addition to my weekly alchemist bill. If they're going to keep increasing the costs to play our class, they'd better implement a Ranger Subsidy by which I get a few gold plunked into my bank every week. It's already out of hand.
 
Start charging all the casters for spell components and enjoy the uproar. Start charging fighters to maintain their armor (not mend, maintain) so they don't lose mitigation. Why are we the ones singled out?
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Old 07-25-2005, 11:08 PM   #7
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Akakilla,

the reason I don't bother with makeshift is a couple of things:

1) I can buy 1,000 iron hunting arrows for 60 silver, the cost of a boat ride.  Its quick and painless.

2) I can put all my arrows in one backpack nicely organized. Its my third pack.  Since SOE hass failed to give us a quiver HINT HINT (LOL) we have to reload a lot and in battle I don't want to be searching for where the arrows are.  Makeshifts could end up any where as the night wares on and I'm getting loot.

3) Our playing style is that we go absolutely non stop for about 150 minutes.  We only do this three times a week, so I guess you could call us casual gamers, but wee have gotten to level 38-40 in about 16 weeks doing this.  When we are playing our main tank is constantly pulling.  Makeshift would be just one more thing to worry about and there is enough already, like remebering to use my str and agility rings when they ware out, keep buffs current etc.  So I look at this as "You can save about 20-30 silver a night if you remember to hit makeshift everytime it ungrays" ... hmm... not worth the effort.

 

Hope that answers the question.  By the way, I use rip constantly beecause it sits in a nice sequence of things I do naturally.  End of the night I have about 200 feyiron arrows to play with the next time.

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Old 07-25-2005, 11:11 PM   #8
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ArgOnus,

 

Using makeshift arrrows makes sense in your case since you are in the field 100% of them time.  I'm a level 38 woodworker as weell and at the end of every session I go back to Willow Wood, so in my case buying the 6 copper arrows is easy.  I make at leasst 20-30 gold in the 150 minute session, so its a minor cost to me.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:37 AM   #9
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Personally, I always keep a few stacks of indium and ebon arrows around, plus some bodkins and hunting arrows for those raids where every little bit counts.  I use arrows from Tear for everything else.

I agree with Jay's comments about the cost of being a ranger, personally i wish they'd fix it so poisons don't run out upon death.  I went through 60 gold in poisons on a recent raid we hadn't tried before while dying to figure out our strategy.  That's a big kick in the ... wallet.

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Old 07-26-2005, 01:03 AM   #10
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To be blunt, I hope your idea dies a quick painful death, and then is subsequently forgotten, at least until I am no longer here. I find it amazing how much I hate crafting. I really hate everything about it. It is tedious beyond belief (almost a level 29 Jeweler now.. maybe tonight), it is boring, and people who do it always seem to want to have every other class beholden to them. How I wish the SOE Dev who suggested poisons and arrows  were never even hired. Personally, I hope SOE caves in and makes Endless Quiver again, that would make me feel quite pleased, at least in regards to the whole arrows shenanigans. It seems that no matter how much people say it, there are always others who will not like it. It simply is not fair to make some classes spend money to work, while most all classes do not. Is it realistic? No. But it does not need to be, in this case it is in the interest of fun, it is not fun having to go to the local broker and look up poisons and arrows and see how much you get screwed for today. Food and drinks are already out of control, the last thing I want is to be reliant on real people for 2 more expendable items. People are greedy (though they call it "what the market will bear"). As a final note to the OP, I bear you no enmity in particular, I just hate tradeskills and the parasitic relationship people always try to saddle us with. In this case, your idea is what I detest. Now perhaps if you get it implemented that may change, but I doubt you will care SMILEY Merkades, 50th Ranger. Tradeskills suck, 28th Jeweler.
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:41 AM   #11
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Merkades,

Please don't take my next comment [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] a negative, just an observation....

There is almost two worlds in EQ2 and wee kind of coexist but not really...

World 1: Solo players, who don't really have a lot of friends in the game especially when they started.  They tend to have to buy things from crafters, or if they are crafters they are selling things through the broker and don't really know or care who their customers are.  The adventures tend to play in pick up groups and make a few friends but [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] people leave or out level each other the friendships wane and they find new groups.

World 2:  Groups of Friends who have know each other through many games and EQ2 is just one more game.  They tend not to interact with non-friends that much.  They very occassionally buy or sll something through the broker system.  The crafters only make stuff for their friends, the adventures only sell loot if none of their friends can use it.  Rares are pooled and shared.  Occassionally they will let an "outsider" join them, if they fit they may eventually be invited to the cclub and become part of the community. 

I belong to World 2, I suspect over 70% of the total playerrs above level 25 are in World 2.  My close group in EQ2 only consists of about 25 players right now, wee have other guild members in EQ, WoW, DAoC, CoH etc..... we number around 200 in total.  When EQ2 first cam out we probably peaked at 50-60 in the beta.  In addition, there are other guilds that have got to know my guild over the years from other games, when we see each others guild tags we tend to treat each other has immediate friends once we find out who is who.  So I guess there are 100 players on Mistmoore that I know reasonably well.  The game is very diffferent for me to a typical World 1 player.  I get a lot of Adept 1s and even a few masters because any spell drops are given to another guild member.  We have at least one of each crafter and we all only make for the guild.  When a new memberrs joins we immediately upgrade their armor and stuff.  All our crafters make stuff for cost, most of the time wee just give it away LOL, except T5 fuels are expensive LOL.

I can see that the game is much harder for people in World 1.  The importance of crafting in EQ2 has made it even harder for the solo player... weell actually the solo adventurer.. a solo crafter could probably make a lot money ... there again they will probably die of boredom first LOL.  In my guild we have people that refuse to craft and make up for it by harvesting.  in the case of the arrows here is the two views:

World 1:

Woodworker:  No one buys my arrows

Ranger: its really expensive to be a Ranger and if I have to buy arrows from a gouging woodworker I will go broke.

World 2:

Woodworker:  The rate we use arrows means I don't want to make them ... at 25 per final batch I could not possibily make enough.  But its a shame, it would be nice to think that getting my woodowrker to level 40 was worth something.

Ranger:  I would like to use the top quality arrows but they are two expensive and it takes the woordworker to much effort to make tthem.

*******
When a Ranger from World 2 hears that Rangers are complaining that its unfair that it costs more to be a Ranger they think -- "So take a bigger portion of the lott, what's the big deal" ....
 
I understand where you are coming from, I have a Rangerr in my guild that plays off hours and has complained.  But he's always been a bit of a soler ..
 
When i hear people say that Rangers are not good solers I think "I agree, that's why I refuse to solo"
 
I don't know what the answer is ... but there are two very different perspectives.  It was possible to solo in EQ if you had the right class.  In EQ2 its possible to adventure solo but not very efficient .. the game makes groups of 20-30 friends a verry effective group if they cover all crafts, classes and harvesting between them.
 
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:18 AM   #12
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Greetings again SavinDwarf, I may be reading this wrong, but it seems that you are under the impression that I am a solo'er, perhaps my general take on things lends to that perception. Aside from Harclave's, which I do for cash, ironically enough, for tradeskills, I only solo greys for quests I have, as I like to try to keep my guild (Disciples of Destiny) at number one on Najena (we are number two, but the number one guild has 6 members, whereas we have 57). Just tonight we finished Deception up to killing Darathar, though I don't know how long he will take, and yesterday we killed Vox (the 55th version) for the first time (all of which were easy, we just never actually tried them (though we did lose to Vox twice learning about her AE and timing it)). Rather, I would say that I belong to a group much like your own, though not with such a pedigree. Our core members are real life friends and military, an extensive amount of our members are also military or ex. So, while we may not have quite the history you do, we do have some common grounds to stand on. I also almost never group outside my guild, and likewise, if I really need something done, I will ask a guild crafted to do it. I will not extend that to asking for expendables. Similarly, we also give guildies masters and what not, as opposed to just selling them. I do agree with the sense of all tradeskill jobs need to have a reason to exist, but I think it is wrong to make it on expendable dependencies. Nothing like a recurring bill just to stay "normal" on your supposed place in the game. Again this only remains true if the other classes have no such penalties, if they shared the costs, I would have no grounds to stand on. I also agree that making things are mostly not worth it. I just hit level 29 in the Jeweler class, and I really hate it, making what must be near a thousand WORTS for .06-.07% exp is just not my idea of fun. I certainly would not want to carry that over to an expendable item (mine at least persist). But all of this aside, as non of it is really relevant to my complaint with your original post, I absolutely detest anything that makes any class dependent on consumables, at least where those consumables cost money, if it was obtained by say makeshift arrows/poisons/food/drink, I could care less about it expending. It is the feel of my leash leading back to crafters hands that I so hate. Merkades, 50th Ranger. Tradeskills suck, 29th Jeweler.
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:27 PM   #13
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My 2cp...
 
Far as playercrafted versus makeshift. I use makeshift. Didn't start using it till around 26 (I am 28 now), but I notice a helluva difference.
 
What I do, when I am in town trading, dropping goods off on market, meeting people for gear/adepts, crafting, or just plain ole' farting around, I create whatever arrows I need to maintain a certain level of arrows. This is usually around 15 stacks. At most I have ever gone through during an "excursion" was around 6 stacks. But makeshift saves lots of coin in the long run and is well worth using imo (even if it is only adept 1). Only downfall to makeshift is you cannot trade them. I have been in a few groups where I had to tell someone sorry but I only have makeshift arrows, the other arrows are too expensive to just give you.
 
Far as the blunt/slash/extra piercing arrows. I have not had need for these as of yet. Of course I have only faced two epic encounters to date (braegna the huntress, and the windstalker rumbler), but my bow was able to hit these with makeshift carbonite as well as plain jane iron arrows (when I was still using them). I still carry around iridium and fulginate arrows for that just in case factor.
 
What I find HIGHLY annoying is that some of the arrow recipes are broken. Specifically the rare arrows. EG: Blackened iron arrows, steel arrows, feysteel arrows, wyrmsteel arrows. I think SoE needs to address these issues as soon as possible (preferably before the desert of ro release). These arrows could make a helluva difference in the damage imo, especially with them being rare arrows. With that said. An arrow stack is 99 arrows. When a player crafts arrows it should be for 99 at a time imo. Especially with the way ingots are now dropping as mob loot. I would love to see golden arrows. And I would like to see rare ingots, instead of just the common ones. SMILEY
 
That said, I haven't used rip yet (not high enough level to have it yet), but I look forward to it.
 
Add after edit: Where are the crossbows? SMILEY And is it iritating to anyone else that you start to use a ca only to see that dreaded message "Missing Component"? I would love even if it cost me 10-15gp to have a quiver to drop in the arrow slot that would autoload the next stack of arrows automcatically.
 
One last thing I think would be highly interesting. A true flaming arrow. A specific player crafted arrow that does fire damage over time (DoT). I think these type of arrows could add an interesting aspect to the game (especially in everfrost).
 
I think thats all I have to say on the issue. I will re-edit later on if I can think of anything else.
 
EDITED: Thought of something else.

Message Edited by StealthM0de on 07-26-2005 07:34 AM

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Old 07-26-2005, 07:18 PM   #14
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As a casual player (more along the lines of "world 1"), I find those who have played the game forever tend have a jaded outlook on those who are just starting the game.  In the ideal MMORPG world, every player would have all the time in the world to make tons of friends (and keep them), join a guild, and have a genuine overall comfy position.  But the reality of it all is that a lot of players just don`t have that kind of time, so is it any wonder why groups of "friends" don`t stay together for very long in the MMO world? 

Now granted, I`ve been playing MMOs on & off for several years, but 2 things remain the same: 
1.) those who have their own groups tend to shun away any "outsiders".  So, what we end up with is a vicious cycle.  A new player would love to join a group or guild of seasoned players (maybe for guidance or just to feel accepted I suppose), but they may get turned down because they are "so new".
2.) when part of a guild, I find that alot (not all) guilds just don`t communicate anything more than what kind of gear they accumulated or how much more powerful they can become (selfishness??).  There doesn`t seem to be a whole lot of character development amongst guilds, but more about power trips.

Sooo...I don`t blame those (World 1) players who don`t stick around long enough because there are just too many players that can make the newcomer feel like an outcast.  At times, even a good aligned wood elf would probably feel more useful working with the Drow (or darkelves I guess they call them) in Freeport. 

There really is no solution for the behavior in MMO`s, but those who have played a certain game forever simply tend to feel superior toward the newbs & get alot more defensive is someone steps on their toes.  Its sad, though, that even in a virtual fantasy world, there is still segregation between players.

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Old 07-26-2005, 09:39 PM   #15
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I am not sure where this thread is heading, but... I suppose this may be an unpopular viewpoint, but I think segregation in games is fine, as long as it is based on real issues. What I mean by this is that "noobies" will not end up in major raid guilds, or, if they are the right level/class, will not remain there long. My guild is far from being top on our server for accomplishments, but we most definitely will not allow idiots to remain with us, nor will we tolerate [Removed for Content]. "noobies" we don't mind, provided they show some aptitude to learn. After all, everyone has to start somewhere. The reason alot of people don't group outside their guild is obvious, they know and like their guildies, and there is no getting used to anothers playstyles, skill, eccentricities. I have enough members in my guild that I do not need to look for help outside my guild, though if it is convenient, I will group with others (3 days or so ago, I grouped with another guild to do foulgill/big squiggly, instead of fighting them over the spawn, we just decided to cooperate). I do think though, that "noobies" should not seek to join seasoned guilds (read as raiders) until they are no longer truely "noobies". In this I mean, I expect them to have working knowledge of what their class and other classes can do, not necessarily "leet" strats for uber mob x. Perhaps this may require joining a more  down to earth guild that is closer to their levels (I joined my guild when  I was 42, which made me the highest level person at that time, we were also guild level 16, now we have some 40ish level 50s and guild level 30, instead of our local uber guilds (besides, I like to grow with the guild, to get there together, not join for the last leg of the game)). Or perhaps one's individual skill will allow them to bypass that (some people can be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] near genius about learning, problem solving, and effectively integrating). Essentially, I am saying there is no reason for any guild to grandfather people in, unless of course they are a healer O_o But people can and do make ways for themselves to become associated. Or to be blunt, Political Correctness  has no place in the real (or any subset thereof) world (it is not human nature). Merkades, 50th Ranger. Tradeskills suck, 29th Jeweler.
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Old 07-26-2005, 10:50 PM   #16
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yeah...I`m not even sure where this thread is going either, lol.  But, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents into the loop (I don`t post much on here and dang it I had something to say!, lol).  I have just discovered through the years that some (not all) guilds tend to give others a bad name.  Then there are those guilds also that will "recruit " you and you`ll never hear from them again.  Its as though they just want their member number up, but your not really included??

Eh...who knows.  I like EQ for what its worth...

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Old 07-27-2005, 04:22 AM   #17
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Here's what I personally don't understand.  Arrows no longer effect the damage of combat arts.  Rangers especially and most scout classes have combat arts that use thier bow and arrows.  For rangers, the more power efficient combat arts to use come from the bow.  Yet out of all of the classes out there, the bow combat arts are, to my knowledge, the only combat abilities that require a regeant in which the player has to spend money or time in some fasion in order to even use the thing.  Seems just a little unbalanced to me that only bow combat arts require a consumed item to work. My only thoughts on this are: Make it once again that the bow and arrow used, effects the damage, accuracy and damage type of  the combat art. Make it so that the bow combat arts do not consume arrows, the CAs only. (kind of like endless quiver) Ranged auto attack still consumes arrows just like every other class. I like the prospect of having to use different arrows for different situations, but not when 9 of my main abilities use anywhere from 1-5 regeants per use plus power.  Whereas, every other class can use any of thier abilities without needing thousands of items in thier inventory just to do thier job in a group and use thier abilities.
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Old 07-27-2005, 04:42 AM   #18
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Hehe say what you want but I kinda agree with MerkadesSMILEY
 
You might find it fun for me to do less raiding (about 8 hours a day at weekends, and 5-6 hours weekdays) Imagine all the arrows I consume and with a change that would need me to use player made arrows would have two consequenses. Either I would need to raid less cuz I would need to farm coin or I would need to raid less and work on a Woodworker. Either way if they introduced the idea that I needed to use player made arrows to be able to do my work is just insane and should be banished and called herasySMILEY
 
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:09 AM   #19
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Sionn,

Excellent idea.... I knew it was worth posting this .. we all get trapped in our view of the world and tend to mis the obvious.  Your suggestion that CAs just stop using arrows fixes all the problesm in one very simple move.  Its is fair when compared to other classes that don't have comsulables in their spells.  It removes 90% of the arrow use.  Now the only use of the arrows is the ranged attack -- making it worth getting the better arrows.  Very simple solution .. but briiliant!!

Now .. how do we make sure a dev get to see you idea that is buried in this thread ..maybe you should start a new thread with just your suggested change, I bet most sensible rangers would agree in a heartbeat....

 

 

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Old 07-28-2005, 12:40 AM   #20
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Lantene,

 

i think there are really three major characteristics of guilds

Objective:  A) Uber, B) Cooperative, and C) Social

Uber Guilds focus on being the first, the biggest, the best etc.

Cooperative Guilds are formed to make life easier, advance quicker, like finding a group, or having people to help you

Social Guilds are formed because the people like interactibg with others, these type of guilds are more more chatting, less focus on being organized and getting things done

Structure:  A) Dictatorship, B) Miltary, C) Democracy, D) Anarchy

Dictatorships are run by a few with an iron fist and they tend to see the masses in the guild as tools to help them accomplish their goals.  Dictatorships can either be evil (the leaders don't care about the memebrs at all) or beneveloent (the leaders run things with an iron fist, but they care that the mebers have a place and feel needed)

Miltary: They ranks and the highe the rank the more say you have in things.  Similar to dictatorships in many ways, but more open to promoting people and listening.

Democracy:  A few are in charge but when it matters they listen to the members, then tend to do things like say "what raid should we do next" on open channel.

Anarchy:  No real plans, no one in charge, no real objectives

Focus: A) Game, B) MMORPGs in general, and C) Club

Game Focus means the guild only exists for this game, it has no life outside the game and when members leave the game they may never speak to each other again (but Game Focus guilds can evolve)

MMORPG Focus means the guild exists outside the specific game but what holds them together is their interest in playing MMORPGs.  They probably have a seperate web site and they probably discuss most thinsg on the web site rather than in game chat channels. MMORPG focus guilds know each other much better then Game Focus guilds, this means they are much more able to organize things and when a new game launches they become a team much faster than a Game Focus guild.

Club Focus these are groups of people are together because the like each other.  They may have an interest in MMORPGs but if you go to the web site you will see huge activity discussing everything from politics, to cooking, to sports and beyond.  A club with 200 mebers might only have 20-25 active a a particular game at any one moment in time.  However, the mebers of these types of guilds have very strong interpersonal relation ships, they know a lot about each other, they have probably met each other face to face at picnics and social gatherings.  The big difference betwen a MMORPG fopcus and the club are the game is what's importsant to the former and having a good time and caring about one another is more important to the Club.

Now lets put them together.

Uber, Dictationship, MMORPG  -- example Fires of Heaven

Social, Anarchy, Club -- The JestersClub (my guild -- www.jestersclub.org)

So what is the point?  To a newbie trying to get into a group or guild they think sll guilds are the same.  Lets take the jesters club... if you want to join go and see our web site, a see if its for you.....To a lot of gamers they think "Why would I go to a web site" and when they get their its "Cooking?  Books?"  

The only guilds really open to mass mebership are normaslly Uber, Dictatorship/Military/Democracy, Game and they tend to recruit for whatever reason LOL.  So people's first experience with guilds is often Uber, Dictatorship, Game  as a peon.  Cooperative guilds will also recruit, but less so.  Social guilds rarely recruit, but if someone is found that fits in they might get invited.

 

hope this makes sense.

 

Message Edited by SavinDwarf on 07-27-2005 04:00 PM

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Old 07-28-2005, 02:45 AM   #21
Sionn

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In all honesty, no matter how good or bad the idea is I wouldn't expect to see any major changes to the systems of the game until after the release of the new expansion about a month from now.
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Old 08-20-2005, 12:51 AM   #22
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Okay, I thought instead of starting another "Where Do I Purchase Crushing & Slashing Arrows" thread I would try this here first. For my part I'm the co-leader of a small Mistmoore guild, and when I'm not having fun as a Ranger I'm involved with guild activities. :smileyhappy: I rely almost exclusively on makeshift  arrows and feyiron from Rip. I've only recently bought any type of arrows, from the NPC in Willow Wood who sells iron hunting arrows (slashing.) My question may seem inane but as I bring my Ranger into his upper 40's I know I will need other types (slashing and crushing) of arrows for certain mobs. Is the best approach to buy these from the broker? I've only found slashing arrows for sale by an NPC in Willow Wood. Should I just start running a search on the broker for what I want? I'm not as concerned with the arrow material (ebon, iridium etc.) but I definitely need to stock up on slashing and crushing (already learned this the hard way and that was just with Varsoon.) Or if not here, I can certainly just link to a better thread...:smileyindifferent: Any advice? What do you all do?
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Old 08-20-2005, 03:25 AM   #23
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Personally, I only buy the different types(slashing, crushing, etc) off the broker when I can find tier appropriate arrows AND they are reasonably priced.  Otherwise, I simply buy them from an NPC.  My playstyle doesn't lend itself to sitting at the back of the raid in ranged auto-attack mode, and that's really the only time that type makes a difference.  Since a portion of our bow CA's are locked to one type of damage(piercing, slashing, etc), and CA's are not effected by arrow tier, probably 90% of the time damage type of the arrow is irrelavent.  That being said, I'm not sure if those constraints still hold true in the new combat system.  I haven't looked that closely at the screenshots that have been posted. I don't doubt that it's possible that I could be missing something, but that's simply the route I have taken up to this point.
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Old 08-20-2005, 05:16 AM   #24
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I believe you can purchase Crushing arrows from the npc vendor in Eldaar Grove.
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