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Old 07-24-2012, 08:36 PM   #1
S1lence

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It looks like across the board all of my chars have lost 10% of their mitigation due to the fact that we no longer get to choose Phy Mit as an option under char development. Am I missing something in how we are supposed to restore a 10% loss? It might now kill the average toon in heroic zones but in raid it took my survivability down very significantly.

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Old 07-24-2012, 09:09 PM   #2
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All non-fighters get ~ 1000 physical mit through either personal buff (scouts and mages) or from first AA on the cleric/shaman/druid AA page for priests.

Fighters get 5% damage reduction in their defensive stances.

All priest classes group mit buff got a 500+ mit boost.

Summary: In a group all non-fighters have about the same mit they did before the change. Fighters have less mit then before, but while in defensive stance, have as much or more 'sturdiness' since the mitigation did less for them as they were already near useful cap on it.

Outside of a group, scouts and mages are down ~ 600 mit

(( All these numbers are for lvl 90+ toons ))

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Old 07-24-2012, 10:08 PM   #3
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What it equates to is a lot of deaths in raid now. I'm not the only one who noticed it.

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Old 07-24-2012, 10:18 PM   #4
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I came here to mention the same thing.  Losing the physical mitigation is disappointing.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:10 PM   #5
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Back in the days where raiders were an important part of Everquest 2 this would have been a much bigger issue. Now i'll bet the usual "deal with it" attitude will most likely prevail.

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Old 07-24-2012, 11:37 PM   #6
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Tonight in raid our Scouts and Mages were saying they gained a couple percent mitigation. As a healer I know I went down by 4% and our tanks were saying down by 1-2% (And those numbers actually fluctuated a bit as one of our tanks got upgrades this evening with less mitigation on the armor). So far it seems like healers are getting smacked the hardest with the change. At least as far as my guild is concerned.

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Old 07-25-2012, 01:01 AM   #7
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If you had all of your char dev points invested in Phy Mit (as most of the raiders I know do) you would have seen a significant drop.

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Old 07-25-2012, 02:15 AM   #8
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Mermut wrote:

All non-fighters get ~ 1000 physical mit through either personal buff (scouts and mages) or from first AA on the cleric/shaman/druid AA page for priests.

Fighters get 5% damage reduction in their defensive stances.

All priest classes group mit buff got a 500+ mit boost.

Summary: In a group all non-fighters have about the same mit they did before the change. Fighters have less mit then before, but while in defensive stance, have as much or more 'sturdiness' since the mitigation did less for them as they were already near useful cap on it.

Outside of a group, scouts and mages are down ~ 600 mit

(( All these numbers are for lvl 90+ toons ))

^ This.

In heroic zones, you won't even notice it. Raids are a different story, but you shouldn't be worying too much about physical mitigation on raids if you're not a fighter.

In addition to what Mermut wrote about fighters, there was this easily overlooked change in the update notes:

x4 raid mobs that proc damage on melee hits and misses have had the damage of their procs reduced.

This, along with the added DR on Defensive Stances, should result in fewer damage spikes to tanks during raids.

My mitigation went from >11k to 9.8k when I logged in this afternoon, but the addition of mitigation/hp's/strikethrough immunity to temporary buffs easily offsets this loss.

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Old 07-25-2012, 03:27 AM   #9
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My guardian lost 2% mit, but gained 5% damage reduction.

Not worried.

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Old 07-25-2012, 09:26 AM   #10
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S1lence wrote:

If you had all of your char dev points invested in Phy Mit (as most of the raiders I know do) you would have seen a significant drop.

Perhaps while solo, but as the second poster mentioned physical mitigation buffs were added to personal buffs and moreso on priest group buffs. Every raider I know specced down Phy Mit as well and I still stand by the percentages I reported. You are more than welcome to look at my character profile or look at my guild to see what the difference is in our gear compared to yours because I have not observed the same findings as you and we raided last night. I'll let you know if we see anything different after this evenings raid.

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:42 AM   #11
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I don't know how much I loss but did notice that my health was going down faster with my beastlord. So there has been a change to the amount of hit I can take.

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:45 AM   #12
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for Scouts/Mages/Priests:  You didn't lose any net mitigation when you are grouped with a priest.  Scouts and Mages will down down about 600-ish mitigation solo, but that loss is balanced when grouped with a priest as their group buff had its mitigation increased by the same amount.

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:49 AM   #13
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I play a scout main in raid and I have very good healers. I can tell you for a fact I and most of the other scouts died 6 times as much after the update (18 deaths versus 3 average). The mages were about 3 times as much.

Correct me if i'm wrong though. Phy mit does influence survivability when we encounter one of the many mobs that has a trauma AOE, and mages/scouts didn't get a 5% reduction like fighters.

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Old 07-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #14
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My monks hp yoyo'ed like my sk.  Not sure what was up.  Damage profiles looked the same, i know both my healers had the i see the tanks casting bar bug too.

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Old 07-25-2012, 11:13 AM   #15
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In raid when I am grouped with a Templar and Defiler, before this change I was at 75% mitigation against a lvl 92 mob.

After this change with the same defiler and templar I had 74.9% mitigation.

Last nights raid (I am a guardian btw) I tanked trash in DP and UD in Recklessness and rarely spiked (I owe it all to my healers). I am even thinking about tanking some of the names in Recklessness, my only concern is not that I may die, but have a tougher time holding aggro.

As Mermut stated the mitigation lost was put back through a couple ways solo buffs, priest buffs.

Maybe the scouts and mages needed to cast off/on those solo buffs so they actually get the benefits. I don't see a problem here.

As for recklessness it is pretty stupid, as a Guardian I did over 200k ZW in DPx4 that was 6th on the parse and I was tanking. If I spec'ed and got gear more towards DPS I bet I would be about even DPS-wise with equally geared scouts if I could get the mobs back. It is kinda sad. I can't wait until a year where scouts get a super D-Stance and they could just tank.

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Old 07-25-2012, 11:25 AM   #16
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S1lence wrote:

What it equates to is a lot of deaths in raid now. I'm not the only one who noticed it.

It ain't the mitigation changes that's killing raiders. It's the tanks going nuts with their new Recklessness stance.

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Old 07-25-2012, 12:14 PM   #17
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I didn't really notice any difference in survivability during raid last night.  In fact, my mystic (now my main character) has more mit than she did before the GU by choosing the group buff as a grandmaster choice.  My fury is a bit ahead as well.

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Old 07-25-2012, 02:26 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

I didn't really notice any difference in survivability during raid last night.  In fact, my mystic (now my main character) has more mit than she did before the GU by choosing the group buff as a grandmaster choice.  My fury is a bit ahead as well.

Same here. Last night's raid went smoothly, some fights were a bit easier (fewer deaths from damage/detrimentals) and none were appreciably harder. The biggest problem was that they'd fixed the spelling error on Malteor's Infernal Conundrum and didn't tell anyone, and that just meant a few minutes fixing ACT triggers. I still have to check solo, though. I'm not expecting any problems with plate or chain classes (they were high up on the curve to begin with) and mages seem to be pretty much at the same mit as before, but I need to see how my warden fares.

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Old 07-25-2012, 07:10 PM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I didn't really notice any difference in survivability during raid last night.  In fact, my mystic (now my main character) has more mit than she did before the GU by choosing the group buff as a grandmaster choice.  My fury is a bit ahead as well.

Same here. Last night's raid went smoothly, some fights were a bit easier (fewer deaths from damage/detrimentals) and none were appreciably harder. The biggest problem was that they'd fixed the spelling error on Malteor's Infernal Conundrum and didn't tell anyone, and that just meant a few minutes fixing ACT triggers. I still have to check solo, though. I'm not expecting any problems with plate or chain classes (they were high up on the curve to begin with) and mages seem to be pretty much at the same mit as before, but I need to see how my warden fares.

Lulz. I /bug reported this on the first day of Skyshrine and was thinking to myself: if they ever do fix this, our triggers (including the misspelling) will no longer work.

Apparently they did. Last night was HM Drunder, but tomorrow is Skyshrine, so thanks for the heads-up.

Anyhow, same deal with us in Drunder. I didn't notice any nicrease in deaths or anything else otherwise wonky as far as damage mechanics go.

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Old 07-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #20
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S1lence wrote:

It looks like across the board all of my chars have lost 10% of their mitigation due to the fact that we no longer get to choose Phy Mit as an option under char development. Am I missing something in how we are supposed to restore a 10% loss? It might now kill the average toon in heroic zones but in raid it took my survivability down very significantly.

After updates like the one we just had, I take my most well-equipped toons (that'd be all 12), and pit them against the toughest encounters in thier respctive tiers (solo, and, here recently, with mercs).

This I have done, and they (both brawlers, both fighters, both crusaders, both priests, a mage, and all three scouts) all did me proud: all of my toons are better at what they do now than they were before.

Yes, I'm aware that some numbers came down. I'm not a number-crunching kind of player - but then I don't have to be, in order to watch my toons' performance and gage it for myself.

I say there's a lot of unnecessary hand-wringing going on.

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Old 07-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #21
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Mermut wrote:

...
...Raids are a different story, but you shouldn't be worying too much about physical mitigation on raids if you're not a fighter....

It's especially everyone who is not a fighter who has to worry.

I remember back in TSO when raiding Ykesha, I think the second or third named. It had such a huge trauma that a lot of people were being one-shotted.

We then told everyone in the raidforce to skill their character trees entirely for physical mitigation (a lot of people didn't automatically do that back then...) and then you could literally see the improvements on those fights.

Fighters have enough tools to compensate for a mitigation loss but clothies and everyone else don't.

So everyone who is not a fighter will suffer the most from this, even if they compensated through buffs a bit...

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Old 07-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #22
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Would have been easier for SOE just to add +160 to phys mit as well on each focus effect chosen instead of going through and messing with everyones buffs..........

Then nobody would be nerfed. TADA!

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Old 07-26-2012, 12:29 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I didn't really notice any difference in survivability during raid last night.  In fact, my mystic (now my main character) has more mit than she did before the GU by choosing the group buff as a grandmaster choice.  My fury is a bit ahead as well.

Same here. Last night's raid went smoothly, some fights were a bit easier (fewer deaths from damage/detrimentals) and none were appreciably harder. The biggest problem was that they'd fixed the spelling error on Malteor's Infernal Conundrum and didn't tell anyone, and that just meant a few minutes fixing ACT triggers. I still have to check solo, though. I'm not expecting any problems with plate or chain classes (they were high up on the curve to begin with) and mages seem to be pretty much at the same mit as before, but I need to see how my warden fares.

Oh, thanks for the info on the Conundrum spelling fix.  We have not done that name since the GU so we will definitely fix our triggers.  I haven't had any solo problems on my fury since the GU, and I still need to check my dirge, but things don't seem to be nearly as bad as it was feared they would be.

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Old 07-26-2012, 02:26 PM   #24
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Hateeternal wrote:

hoosierdaddy wrote:

Mermut wrote:

...
...Raids are a different story, but you shouldn't be worying too much about physical mitigation on raids if you're not a fighter....

It's especially everyone who is not a fighter who has to worry.

I remember back in TSO when raiding Ykesha, I think the second or third named. It had such a huge trauma that a lot of people were being one-shotted.

We then told everyone in the raidforce to skill their character trees entirely for physical mitigation (a lot of people didn't automatically do that back then...) and then you could literally see the improvements on those fights.

Fighters have enough tools to compensate for a mitigation loss but clothies and everyone else don't.

So everyone who is not a fighter will suffer the most from this, even if they compensated through buffs a bit...

Can definitely see your point. I've yet to encounter a mob similar to Ykesha in respect to the trauma-based Ae's, but will be keeping my eye out for them. If they're out there and become notorious for wiping raids, I'm sure they'll eventually be adjusted accordingly. Bear in mind that we've only run one raid since the GU (HM Sullon's), so I'm going from a very small sample size.

It seems like the vast majority (if not all) of Ae's that would one-shot a non-fighter are joustable in Skyshrine, and I'm guessing this will be the norm from here out. Scripting in general has been seriously toned down to the point that we're only reliant upon ACT triggers for ~75% content instead of ~95%.

Let's give it a week or two for people to figure out how to respond to the loss of mitigation before condemning the developers' choice in this matter. (By the way, I'm no fanboy. I just see this as making much ado about nothing from my limited experience.)

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Old 07-26-2012, 02:31 PM   #25
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hoosierdaddy wrote:

Let's give it a week or two for people to figure out how to respond to the loss of mitigation before condemning the developers' choice in this matter. (By the way, I'm no fanboy. I just see this as making much ado about nothing from my limited experience.)

The 'loss of mitigation' is on the order of ~100 for all non-fighters while grouped with a priest (~600 w/o a priest). Mages and scouts  may have to reapply the always on personal buff that had the mitigation added to it. There is no need to joust AoEs that aren't a required joust. Our raid the other night went just fine. In fact, the squishest mage didn't even hit red once last night, as opposed to the normal of red or dirt nap on some of the AoEs.

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