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Old 04-01-2009, 09:45 AM   #1
Ecnomorc

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Sooo yeah... unlike all other scouts classes pvp sets that have 14 Double attack and 14 crit. SoE decided to make us have 21 crit and 7 RDA... this is rediculous that they are changing this especially considering the length of time the gear itself has been out.

I spent 125 tokens on something that is now garbage and I personally wont use anymore... SoE should offer a refund to any rangers that want to get rid of the Leggings because of the recent change... How are you going to change an item like that and just screw everyone over that spent 125 tokens. The only reason any ranger took the leggings for a pvp piece was becuase of the 7 ranged double attack.

Thats a ton of wasted tokens that i worked [Removed for Content] hard for soloing... to now be stuck with a piece of crap 7 rng crit legs... everyone knows that crit gear isnt nearly as important as it was in RoK because of all the Crit mit... its a slap in the face of all rangers once again.

I hope many other rangers will petition this and atleast try and get our hard earned tokens back because i doubt very much that SoE is going to change the leggings back. What was their reasoning behind doing this anyways???

Whats even better is SoE didnt even include this change in the freaking patch notes they just did it and didnt say anything once again.

Whys that.... its because rangers always get the silent nerfs.

Thanks for screwing over the rangers new pvp gear... really appreciate it. Theres only two good pieces from the new TSO pvp gear for rangers... the chest and the legs, now the legs suck and its not even worth getting both.

Nobody in their right mind would use the shoulders over the tier 1 or tier 2 void shoulders.... 7 rda is not better then 5 or 8% combat art dmg increase. Go look at the other scout classes pvp gear... they didnt get screwed like the rangers just have.

Now I wont even bother getting a full set like my RoK stuff...

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Old 04-01-2009, 10:56 AM   #2
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no idea what youre talking about. post some screenshots?

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:13 PM   #3
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I say it's about time ranger ranged attacks got some kind of nerf.   Rangers stack up like 5 different snares on you, then bow you down from a distance.  And you think one item with +7 to ranged double attack wasn't OP for a ranged class?  Pah-lease.  Cry more from your perch on the rocks bowing people down.

Now if only SOE would do something about the incredibly over the top ranged auto attack dmg.

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:19 PM   #4
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How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:27 PM   #5
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How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:31 PM   #6
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

Ah so what you are saying is ranged attacks are OP compared to melee attacks.

So what would be an appropriate amount of ranged double attack to "balance" it versus melee double attack ?

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #7
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Are you also implying that in pve a ranger should see his damage significantly reduced compared to melee dps classes (sitting safely behind the mob while landing backstabs), because he has the "advantage" of range ?
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:36 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

Ah so what you are saying is ranged attacks are OP compared to melee attacks.

So what would be an appropriate amount of ranged double attack to "balance" it versus melee double attack ?

Lol, I'm a ranger hater.  It's all good man.  I know you guys like your class and such.  I know you beleive the more ranged double attack/crit you have the more "even" you are with other classes.   Just cuz you can ranged autoattack for more than any of my combat arts could max crit for, it's all good.

But since you asked ....

I'd say that if melee auto attack dmg were equal to ranged bow auto attack dmg, then things would be on par.   Oooh, once in a while, with my bruiser mythical weapon, I can get an auto attack critical in on someone for maybe 1000 dmg (and that's REALLY boosting it up a good bit).   "OUCH, that [Removed for Content] ranger just ranged double auto attacked me for 3k and 3k!"  Yeah, that's SOOOO balanced.

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:53 PM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

Ah so what you are saying is ranged attacks are OP compared to melee attacks.

So what would be an appropriate amount of ranged double attack to "balance" it versus melee double attack ?

Lol, I'm a ranger hater.  It's all good man.  I know you guys like your class and such.  I know you beleive the more ranged double attack/crit you have the more "even" you are with other classes.   Just cuz you can ranged autoattack for more than any of my combat arts could max crit for, it's all good.

>> I play an illusionnist, not really a ranger killer class - unless the ranger is god awful, which many are thankfully. Try again ?

Oh I admit I hate bruisers though lol, but that's not the reason I argue with you.

But since you asked ....

I'd say that if melee auto attack dmg were equal to ranged bow auto attack dmg, then things would be on par.   Oooh, once in a while, with my bruiser mythical weapon, I can get an auto attack critical in on someone for maybe 1000 dmg (and that's REALLY boosting it up a good bit).   "OUCH, that [Removed for Content] ranger just ranged double auto attacked me for 3k and 3k!"  Yeah, that's SOOOO balanced.

>> Then I guess bow delay should be on par with melee weapons delay. I suggest you compare the delay of your mythical and the ranger's mythical. And if ranger bow crits so hard, why do you support a change that adds more crits on their gear compared to other scout classes ?

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:01 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Sooo yeah... unlike all other scouts classes pvp sets that have 14 Double attack and 14 crit. SoE decided to make us have 21 crit and 7 RDA... this is rediculous that they are changing this especially considering the length of time the gear itself has been out.

I spent 125 tokens on something that is now garbage and I personally wont use anymore... SoE should offer a refund to any rangers that want to get rid of the Leggings because of the recent change... How are you going to change an item like that and just screw everyone over that spent 125 tokens. The only reason any ranger took the leggings for a pvp piece was becuase of the 7 ranged double attack.

Thats a ton of wasted tokens that i worked [Removed for Content] hard for soloing... to now be stuck with a piece of crap 7 rng crit legs... everyone knows that crit gear isnt nearly as important as it was in RoK because of all the Crit mit... its a slap in the face of all rangers once again.

I hope many other rangers will petition this and atleast try and get our hard earned tokens back because i doubt very much that SoE is going to change the leggings back. What was their reasoning behind doing this anyways???

Whats even better is SoE didnt even include this change in the freaking patch notes they just did it and didnt say anything once again.

Whys that.... its because rangers always get the silent nerfs.

Thanks for screwing over the rangers new pvp gear... really appreciate it. Theres only two good pieces from the new TSO pvp gear for rangers... the chest and the legs, now the legs suck and its not even worth getting both.

Nobody in their right mind would use the shoulders over the tier 1 or tier 2 void shoulders.... 7 rda is not better then 5 or 8% combat art dmg increase. Go look at the other scout classes pvp gear... they didnt get screwed like the rangers just have.

Now I wont even bother getting a full set like my RoK stuff...

I feel the same exact way. All that hard work just to get screwed over. It sickens me soo much, on the account of how much I work hard in different things other than just this example, and then getting screwed over in the end. There was no reason for this nerf, nor any reason not to mention this in the notes. I spent soo many tokens, 4 months of casual pvping, and the effort in each pvp fight for these leggings which origionally had +7 ranged double attack. It was worth it, until the new update. Stupid decisions like this makes me want to leave the game, but It's to [Removed for Content] hard when you invested soo much in the game already.

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:04 PM   #11
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Soooo lame... Just got enough tokens to buy them and this change. Laaaaaame

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:26 PM   #12
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This wasnt intentional.  For some reason this was reverted back to a prior version while reverting some of the fighter changes.  It is getting changed back to include the ranged double attack chance and hopefully that will be out there soon.

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:32 PM   #13
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Aeralik wrote:

This wasnt intentional.  For some reason this was reverted back to a prior version while reverting some of the fighter changes.  It is getting changed back to include the ranged double attack chance and hopefully that will be out there soon.

Thanks Aeralik! Fast, concise responses like this are always appreciated, whether for the good or not.

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Old 04-01-2009, 02:55 PM   #14
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Aeralik wrote:

This wasnt intentional.  For some reason this was reverted back to a prior version while reverting some of the fighter changes.  It is getting changed back to include the ranged double attack chance and hopefully that will be out there soon.

Yay a response from a dev. Thanks for taking notice on fixing this issue.

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Old 04-01-2009, 03:28 PM   #15
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Rangers rely more on auto attack for their DPS than any other class in the game. +7 RDA on a Ranger will make a bigger difference than +7DA on a Brigand, swashie, bruiser etc.

I agree that rangers are currently overpowered, probably the most overpowered scout from my experience. But that doesn't really matter in this argument. The fact is that if a piece of gear is changed significantly, players should be given back tokens and get a choice of whether or not to re-purchase it, or go for a different set piece.

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Old 04-08-2009, 06:35 AM   #16
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Thank you very much for your prompt response and fix Aeralik, as of april 7th 09 the leggings have been fixed. The fix wasnt in the patch notes... but to my suprise when I logged in they were back to normal.

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Old 04-08-2009, 08:18 AM   #17
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Rangers were OP in T7. After the focus aim nerf, rangers are under powered compared to brigs, swash and sins.

I used to play a sin throughout ROK on nagafen. Sin's are very under-rated, maybe because brigs/swash are so easy to play but sin's IMO are much easier to play than a Ranger.

Rangers either go full offense (made of paper) or defense (and die due to lack of DPS) and rangers have significantly less items to choose from and this stupid misconception about RDA and RC being OP.

The only few good rangers on the server that kill people easily are uber geared, they give rangers a bad reputation. Any class with uber gear is considered OP by many.

I don't know how many times I have seen brokensword (brig) or heelo (SK) (insert onyx here) rip through an entire grp of people without a healer in sight, but yeh, they aren't OP cos' of skill and uber gear. That's just a fluke everytime?

You make out that going in close is a disadvantage? it's a significant advantage unless you are fighting a brawler/crusader in which case you kite them at arms length anyway. Being able to manipulate your foe using a combination or root, stun, stifle and positioning is a very very powerful mode of combat.

Rangers have to stay out of your range and pray that snare doesn't break, because when it does and they get in melee range. The offensive stance decrease to your defense + gracelessness poison (or equivalent debuff) turns the ranger armor into a wet paper bag and its game-over for all but the best.

P.S. THANKS FOR THE PROMPT CHANGE

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Old 04-08-2009, 10:25 AM   #18
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Siphar wrote:

Rangers have to stay out of your range and pray that snare doesn't break, because when it does and they get in melee range. The offensive stance decrease to your defense + gracelessness poison (or equivalent debuff) turns the ranger armor into a wet paper bag and its game-over for all but the best.

Well good thing their myth INCREASES their damage when their target is closer to them and they can shoot them from point blank range!

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Old 04-08-2009, 10:28 AM   #19
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Yes now that the bug is fixed the thread can derail back to usual ranger hate/love SMILEY
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Old 04-08-2009, 04:11 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

l2 bruiser, should honestly never lose to a ranger u do realize you can switch stances mid combat to cope with his kite and to cope with when u get on top of him? i dont lose to rangers at least.

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Old 04-08-2009, 05:51 PM   #21
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lets introduce token decay: 25 tokens a day seems to be a good value.

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Old 04-08-2009, 06:14 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Siphar wrote:

Rangers have to stay out of your range and pray that snare doesn't break, because when it does and they get in melee range. The offensive stance decrease to your defense + gracelessness poison (or equivalent debuff) turns the ranger armor into a wet paper bag and its game-over for all but the best.

Well good thing their myth INCREASES their damage when their target is closer to them and they can shoot them from point blank range!

Yeah.. our MYTHICAL, and only our mythical, weapon let's us AUTO ATTACK at point blank. No ranged combat arts. Just auto. Yes most of our damage comes from auto attacks, but if a melee class is up in a ranger's face, it's more often than not game over for the ranger. Get your facts straight

Do you think every ranger has their mythical? The answer to that question is no. And everyone else that has their mythical gets some really nice perk, so leave ours alone.

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Old 04-08-2009, 11:30 PM   #23
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toopoc wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

How is ranged double attack more OP than melee double attack ?

Cuz with melee double attack, your opponent is close enough to you to fight back!

Sure, I could sonic punch and drag the ranger.  But then I'd have to hope that every single detail for a successful punch and drag is in place.   The surface has to be somewhat level.  I have to either be on even footing or on higher ground than my opponent.  I have to hope he isn't doing to much running around some rough terrain.   The two moons of Norrath have to be in equal alignment of the sun at it's equinox.   Then I'd have to hope to be able to blow him up in the 2 seconds that drag lasts before he gets all his snares on me and gets ranged on me again.  

It's all about the risk involved.   The risk is either very low or nonexistant for a ranger at range distance.

l2 bruiser, should honestly never lose to a ranger u do realize you can switch stances mid combat to cope with his kite and to cope with when u get on top of him? i dont lose to rangers at least.

I rarely lose to bruisers or monks... cause ive been playing a ranger since launch day on this server, theres a select few that are good and know what they are doing vs a ranger. Those fights are always great long kite fights and I love them... Toopoc we need to one v one a few times just over and over would be alot of fun... and trust me bud im not  a ranger thats gonna go down easy.

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Old 04-09-2009, 04:48 AM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

lets introduce token decay: 25 tokens a day seems to be a good value.

What happens when you have no token left ? Gear decay ?

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Old 04-09-2009, 05:37 AM   #25
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Nope your p*nis decays... in rl. Yeah try to tell your doctor that one

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Old 04-09-2009, 05:49 AM   #26
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Orthureon wrote:

Nope your p*nis decays... in rl. Yeah try to tell your doctor that one

Yes and then your wife tells you to go play EQ2 to counter the decay !

Wonderful how gamer's wet dreams come true SMILEY

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