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Old 03-29-2009, 05:40 AM   #1
Paikis

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DISCLAIMER: There is a TL;DR summary at the bottom. Don't complain about the wall of text.

PvP gear. Love it or hate it, it's here to stay. Raiding on a PvP server. Thats here to stay also (and rightly so). But there has always been (atleast after GU24 and the advent of Haven) complaints from the exiles about PvP gear (Parry belt anyone?) and complaints from the city about how easy raiding was as an exile, and since EoF, complaints about how PvE gear was so unbalancing in PvP.

Alot of the above is true (IMO). Raiding always was easier in Exile, (I still think it could be done in a city, but thats another debate) some of the PvP gear WAS a little over the top (Parry belt, Shifting , Banshee Hoop, Boomerang Bandolier etc) and alot of the PvE gear has insane effects on it which basically make anyone wearing it a god in PvP.

Here's what I think needs to be done:

Firstly, all items (most of em anyways) have a PvP checkbox. There is no reason why we can't have seperate stats for all items, but I want to go one step further. We already have seperate slots for appearance gear, why not add another set of slots for PvP gear. When engaged in PvP, all non-PvP items become simple common items with the same basic stats. Your Mythical weapon is GREAT for PvE, but honestly they have no place in PvP. All that gear with procs and focus effects that you got from raiding and is intended for raiding, has no place in PvP. With this system, your weapons would go from this:

To this, when the PvP check-box is ticked:

Looks good to me. PvP gear for PvPing and PvE gear for PvEing. Design some basic PvP gear for 5-10 tokens a piece, make it legendary-ish, basic stats, maybe 1-2% crit or double attack (double spell?) and then have them upgradeable to the current PvP gear.

You want advantages in PvP? Then go out and PvP for gear. Want advantages against raid mobs? Go raid for gear. Want both? Do both.

Also, can we get some player input on the design of the PvP gear. I know the Troubador set is hopelessly useless for PvP, although its still pretty good for PvE. Also, the Templar PvP set leaves alot to be desired... for PvP.

TL;DR Version:1. Seperate slots for PvP gear.2. PvP gear doesn't work in PvE. PvE gear doesn't work in PvP.3. Basic sets of PvP gear for small amounts of tokens, ramping up to the current PvP sets for alot more tokens.4. Get someone else to design the PvP set gear. Alot of it is horrible for PvP, although great for PvE. But this is PvP gear right?

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Old 03-29-2009, 08:59 AM   #2
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dont worry about pvp gear. there is no pvp on venekor.

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Old 03-29-2009, 09:34 AM   #3
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Nice in theory but there is 0 chance of it ever happening.

Putting in a system like this would have to start at level 10. With how fast people can level now days there would be no good way to do so without making so many things redundant.

What they really need to do is a hire a dev that their only job is all pvp issues. Be it mechanics, items, new content, etc. They need a sole person that works only on pvp issues.

In doing so this one person could work on changing all the major items that can make people godly in pvp and vice versa. You can have 2 totaly differen items by using the pvp tab. Its just too bad they never put any real effort into it.

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Old 03-29-2009, 11:24 AM   #4
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Interesting idea. I would look forward to this if there were more pvp items, epsically in TSO. (charms, weapons,  jewlery, perhaps ammo and food maybe?)  Also a great and simple way to nerf avatar, mythical, and other overpowed items, without actually changing any stats on them. The thing that irks me is that all the hard work my guild and I did to progress to get our mythicals and raiding gear would be for nothing when it comes to PvP. Should make pvp gear for lower tiers to be easier to obtain as well since leveling takes no time anymore. 

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Old 03-29-2009, 05:37 PM   #5
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The biggest problem is you can not switch gear while in-combat, so anytime you're questing, you are at a much, much greater disadvantage if your gear now loses all of its stats when someone jumps you, locking you in PvP combat.

Great idea, but there would need to be many changes made.

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Old 03-29-2009, 08:46 PM   #6
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Lodor wrote:

Nice in theory but there is 0 chance of it ever happening.

There is always a chance of something happening, but I agree that it is unlikely. I think the only time that this would be able to be implimented would be with a level cap rise.

[email protected] wrote:

The biggest problem is you can not switch gear while in-combat, so anytime you're questing, you are at a much, much greater disadvantage if your gear now loses all of its stats when someone jumps you, locking you in PvP combat.

Great idea, but there would need to be many changes made.

OK, now go and READ my post.

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Old 03-30-2009, 04:11 AM   #7
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Great idea

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Old 03-30-2009, 04:57 AM   #8
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It's a decent idea, but there would be a need for much more pvp gear before it can be done. I would still rather see each item addressed individually: ok this thing procs for 3k in pve and 2k in pvp ? mmmh maybe 2k is too much it should be toned down to X. Anyway I don't see anything happening. I mean there are a few well know items ppl complain regularly about and nobody looks at them ever... What we would need is some sort of "PVP quality control": everytime Fyreflyte creates a new sexy toy someone clicks the pvp checkbox, looks at the scaled effects, then can evaluate if it's reasonnable BEFORE it hits live or if the item needs revision.
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:13 PM   #9
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Most items and gear receive a 20% reduction is effectiveness in pvp. Perhaps this general number can be increased further to increase the duration of PvP fights.

Also, we are seeing the 1 hits coming back into PvP. I would like to highlight 3 abilities in particular. HT, Execute and the wizard myth which grants a 10 chance to double attack.

Imagine being hit with a mez and then instantly killed by a double attack? or more commonly being in a fight with an assassin who admittedly will be using gracelessness poisons uses their macro from stealth+execute for pretty much an instant kill. I have been hit recently for 9k by execute and over 14k in pvp by a wizard. HT hits for less depending on your crit mit and disease resistance but can frequently reach 4-7k (and SK's do not need help in PvP).

My Hp is like 10,500 as a scout.

Maybe it's my bad for not having all the crit mit gear, but there should be a limit on these types of abilities to do say 75% of your max hp in a given period of time (say 1 or 2 seconds, which would fix instant kills). This should only apply for equal con players i.e. 80 hitting an 80. Hitting lower level players, the damage can scale, say by 2% per level. So 80 sin executes 75 for 85% of their total hp maximum in a time perior of 1 sec (or whatever).

There is no skill in 1-2 hitting people.

Are the myths powerful? yes and they should stay powerful in PvP as PvE.

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Old 03-30-2009, 02:21 PM   #10
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Just about the worst idea I have ever read from just about anyone, ever.

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Old 03-30-2009, 11:22 PM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

Just about the worst idea I have ever read from just about anyone, ever.

I threw this idea out there, not because I thought it would happen, but as a response to the constant complaining by the have-nots (exiled raiders... you) that PvP gear had too much crit mit. Also to the almost constant complaints about PvE gear being way too good for PvP. This solution would fix all those problems. And if they implimented it with a level cap increase, then people would have to re-gear anyways so they wouldn't really be losing anything.

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

If they put this in tomorrow, then you'd stand to lose alot of effectiveness in PvP. Ofcourse, you have to come out of the cave for that to happen, so what are you worried about?

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Old 03-31-2009, 10:51 AM   #12
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Paikis wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Just about the worst idea I have ever read from just about anyone, ever.

I threw this idea out there, not because I thought it would happen, but as a response to the constant complaining by the have-nots (exiled raiders... you) that PvP gear had too much crit mit. Also to the almost constant complaints about PvE gear being way too good for PvP. This solution would fix all those problems. And if they implimented it with a level cap increase, then people would have to re-gear anyways so they wouldn't really be losing anything.

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

If they put this in tomorrow, then you'd stand to lose alot of effectiveness in PvP. Ofcourse, you have to come out of the cave for that to happen, so what are you worried about?

All this would do is get people ganked because their gear would be uneffective in some situations, get locked in combat pvp or pve and unable to swap gear, which is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Like I said worst Idea EVER, sorry but its true.

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Old 03-31-2009, 06:49 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

Paikis wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Just about the worst idea I have ever read from just about anyone, ever.

I threw this idea out there, not because I thought it would happen, but as a response to the constant complaining by the have-nots (exiled raiders... you) that PvP gear had too much crit mit. Also to the almost constant complaints about PvE gear being way too good for PvP. This solution would fix all those problems. And if they implimented it with a level cap increase, then people would have to re-gear anyways so they wouldn't really be losing anything.

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

If they put this in tomorrow, then you'd stand to lose alot of effectiveness in PvP. Ofcourse, you have to come out of the cave for that to happen, so what are you worried about?

All this would do is get people ganked because their gear would be uneffective in some situations, get locked in combat pvp or pve and unable to swap gear, which is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Like I said worst Idea EVER, sorry but its true.

You didn't read his post, two different equipment slots, PvP goes in one, PvE goes in the other, PvP gear is useless in PVE Encounters, PvE gear is useless in PvP encounters, the two switch when you target a player to a mob.

I Like the idea in general, but i can see issues arrising when you're engaged in a mob and get jumped..

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Old 03-31-2009, 07:40 PM   #14
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Probem:

Train grey/weak mob to someone and with the Mob targeted, AE attack or group heal.

Thoughts?

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Old 03-31-2009, 07:49 PM   #15
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Instead of making a new thread about the issue I'm about to bring up, I'll just post it here.

The PvP Ranger leg piece was changed from +7 RDA to +7 Range crit. Seriously, why? With all the crit mit right now, Range Crit is practically useless for pvp, and that RDA is more wanted for the ranger class. Wouldn't be as upset if it actually said it in the update notes, but NO! Another ninja nerfed, to make me mad and to waste my hard work getting the 125 tokens. Honestly, if it was origionally supposed to be Ranged crit instead of double attack, I wouldn't be upset at all, but let me buy my pvp gear based on the stats it has, not how it will be changed damnit! Sick of working so hard to get the good gear that will suddenly be turned to crap later on. Come on, stop screwing over the hard working people.

Everyone make sure that nothing else has been ninja nerfed, and sorry to get somewhat off subject.

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Old 04-01-2009, 12:36 AM   #16
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What about those who only raid in order to gear themselves up for PvP? I certainly don't spend hours in a raid zone to do a better job in instances. I play on a PvP server to PvP, and raid in order to better myself in PvP.

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Old 04-01-2009, 04:14 AM   #17
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Why not go half way with the idea then? Just make procs from non-pvp gear not work in pvp combat. It's the procs that are insanely OP anyways, not so much the crit.

I still like my original idea better though. Granted we'd need ALOT more pvp jewelery.

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Old 04-01-2009, 10:11 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Paikis wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Just about the worst idea I have ever read from just about anyone, ever.

I threw this idea out there, not because I thought it would happen, but as a response to the constant complaining by the have-nots (exiled raiders... you) that PvP gear had too much crit mit. Also to the almost constant complaints about PvE gear being way too good for PvP. This solution would fix all those problems. And if they implimented it with a level cap increase, then people would have to re-gear anyways so they wouldn't really be losing anything.

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

If they put this in tomorrow, then you'd stand to lose alot of effectiveness in PvP. Ofcourse, you have to come out of the cave for that to happen, so what are you worried about?

All this would do is get people ganked because their gear would be uneffective in some situations, get locked in combat pvp or pve and unable to swap gear, which is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Like I said worst Idea EVER, sorry but its true.

You didn't read his post, two different equipment slots, PvP goes in one, PvE goes in the other, PvP gear is useless in PVE Encounters, PvE gear is useless in PvP encounters, the two switch when you target a player to a mob.

I Like the idea in general, but i can see issues arrising when you're engaged in a mob and get jumped..

Maybe you dont understand.

It doesnt matter how many equipment slots you have. If you cant use pve gear in pvp and dont have any pvp gear, THEN HOW IN THE HELL ARE YOU SUPPOSE TO GET ANY? Not to mention how buggy it would be for your gear to switch depending on if your killing an npc of pvp. What happens when your engaged with both? Which happens alot.

Still a horrible Idea.  We already have apperance slots geeze we dont need more gear slots to deal with

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Old 04-01-2009, 10:53 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:

If you cant use pve gear in pvp and dont have any pvp gear

Paikis wrote:

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

Totally called it. Also, if you actually READ my oriinal post, you'll see that i mentioned something about a beginner set of pvp gear for very few tokens.

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Old 04-01-2009, 11:42 AM   #20
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Paikis wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

If you cant use pve gear in pvp and dont have any pvp gear

Paikis wrote:

I can only think of 2 reasons why you would say that its the worst idea ever Pail.

1. YOU don't have any PvP gear.2. YOU do have alot of the top end raid gear.

Totally called it. Also, if you actually READ my oriinal post, you'll see that i mentioned something about a beginner set of pvp gear for very few tokens.

Wow your sooo smart, its not like you didnt know I came from exile with no pvp gear and lots of raid gear.

I should hope that wasnt a hard guess since you have been in the same exiled guild a few times as you bounced servers and mains.. LOL

Yea you sooo called it   good thing you have a good memory.... [Removed for Content]

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Old 04-01-2009, 01:58 PM   #21
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Sorry, but this is a pretty bad idea.  This game has 2 main playstyles that define it (on our select few servers): PVP and PVE.  Both of these styles support each other to make one complete game.  They don't need to be seperated anymore.  Good gear can make your toon more dangerous in PVP.  Good gear can help your guild clear raid or heroic content in PVE.  Good gear comes from both heroic/raid instances and PVP merchants.  That is the way it is.  The days of exiles having the class advantage in raiding is over.  Cities are now on a level playing field to go get mythicals or whatever other gear they want to get.  They even have access to more pieces of crit mit for each class.

Having mulitple ways to aquire gear for your toon for pvp and pve is good.  There is nothing stopping city guilds from getting the top end raid gear.  They just have to decide that they actually want to go get it.  People that put more effort into the game, will always have better gear.  That is what makes mmos fun.  They arent full of cookie cutter players with standard handout gear.  You have the ability to better your toon.  The more work you do, the more reward you get.

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Old 04-02-2009, 03:54 AM   #22
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OMG! Stop the press! Someone changed their main and guild a few times! Holy jebus! Deal with it.

And my point was that you're saying no to the idea, not because its a bad idea, but because it would not favor you. This idea doesn't help YOU imediately, so its automatically a bad idea. THAT is what Im talking about. I didnt sit there and think to myself 'How can I think of a solution to this problem, but still screw Pail... /ponder'.

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Old 04-02-2009, 04:52 AM   #23
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Siphar wrote:

Most items and gear receive a 20% reduction is effectiveness in pvp. Perhaps this general number can be increased further to increase the duration of PvP fights.

Also, we are seeing the 1 hits coming back into PvP. I would like to highlight 3 abilities in particular. HT, Execute and the wizard myth which grants a 10 chance to double attack.

Imagine being hit with a mez and then instantly killed by a double attack? or more commonly being in a fight with an assassin who admittedly will be using gracelessness poisons uses their macro from stealth+execute for pretty much an instant kill. I have been hit recently for 9k by execute and over 14k in pvp by a wizard. HT hits for less depending on your crit mit and disease resistance but can frequently reach 4-7k (and SK's do not need help in PvP).

My Hp is like 10,500 as a scout.

Maybe it's my bad for not having all the crit mit gear, but there should be a limit on these types of abilities to do say 75% of your max hp in a given period of time (say 1 or 2 seconds, which would fix instant kills). This should only apply for equal con players i.e. 80 hitting an 80. Hitting lower level players, the damage can scale, say by 2% per level. So 80 sin executes 75 for 85% of their total hp maximum in a time perior of 1 sec (or whatever).

There is no skill in 1-2 hitting people.

Are the myths powerful? yes and they should stay powerful in PvP as PvE.

As an assassin I agree on this, without a doubt Execute is OP, though I dont understand how you dont mention other stuff, such as the classic ranger autoattack that oneshots ppl from 50m range.

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Old 04-06-2009, 11:58 AM   #24
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to the OP, no, then the raiders can't pvp

make it so there is NO pvp gear, and ALL raid gear, (read every single piece) is available with tokens, OR, make it so ALL gear goes to some set equal stats across the board upon engaging in pvp

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