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Old 04-04-2009, 07:01 PM   #1
toopoc

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Hi, i know we have all been going through the new pvp changes with the no fame loss and zerg, of course more people are fighting. there is nothing to lose. But i have more of a problem that is making the game unfun! i know a few people who are in game farming each other for fame they kill each other and get fame every thirty minutes and just do this for about 7-9 hours a day... and of course they lose nothing for dieing this is a new level of insecurity for fame and i want to see a fix espeacially as a REAL pvper

This post is for the GM's to see why we need death loss flame me if u want but i want pvp to actually have worth either take fame out of the game or have it work properly!!!!

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Old 04-04-2009, 07:11 PM   #2
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Fame has always been worthless/pointless all this change did was prove that.

Forget about fame, kill people for the sake of them breathing the air around you, and enjoy it.

Its not like you gain very much from a kill now anyway, with the way its bugged.

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Old 04-04-2009, 07:14 PM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

Fame has always been worthless/pointless all this change did was prove that.

Forget about fame, kill people for the sake of them breathing the air around you, and enjoy it.

Its not like you gain very much from a kill now anyway, with the way its bugged.

i agree with you to an extent, but i think what im trying to say is, i wanna pvp more then just in nek forest... and lava storm... i played swg for a long time and post cu or nge in pre cu pvp was not in one place, but in player cities in theed on different planets, even when out farming for loot you could find pvp, and swg was a PVE GAME! u had to actually flag yourself for pvp. im just looking for more pvp all over the game not in one area...

if you can catch my drift

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:26 PM   #4
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toopoc wrote:

Hi, i know we have all been going through the new pvp changes with the no fame loss and zerg, of course more people are fighting. there is nothing to lose. But i have more of a problem that is making the game unfun! i know a few people who are in game farming each other for fame they kill each other and get fame every thirty minutes and just do this for about 7-9 hours a day... and of course they lose nothing for dieing this is a new level of insecurity for fame and i want to see a fix espeacially as a REAL pvper

This post is for the GM's to see why we need death loss flame me if u want but i want pvp to actually have worth either take fame out of the game or have it work properly!!!!

For the stuff in yellow.

No matter what kind of title they get they will still be as bad/good as they where before,so dosent make any diffrence to me when i run into em.

Stuff in green.

Just remove it and be done with it seems like the best option.

Cheers

Jabib

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:29 PM   #5
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toopoc wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Fame has always been worthless/pointless all this change did was prove that.

Forget about fame, kill people for the sake of them breathing the air around you, and enjoy it.

Its not like you gain very much from a kill now anyway, with the way its bugged.

i agree with you to an extent, but i think what im trying to say is, i wanna pvp more then just in nek forest... and lava storm... i played swg for a long time and post cu or nge in pre cu pvp was not in one place, but in player cities in theed on different planets, even when out farming for loot you could find pvp, and swg was a PVE GAME! u had to actually flag yourself for pvp. im just looking for more pvp all over the game not in one area...

if you can catch my drift

Lavastorm is a new zone. New quests, new rewards. Even without the fame change we would see massive PvP in this area. Wait a few weeks till the majority is done with the new content and things will go back to normal.

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Old 04-04-2009, 08:32 PM   #6
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ulleulle wrote:

toopoc wrote:

Hi, i know we have all been going through the new pvp changes with the no fame loss and zerg, of course more people are fighting. there is nothing to lose. But i have more of a problem that is making the game unfun! i know a few people who are in game farming each other for fame they kill each other and get fame every thirty minutes and just do this for about 7-9 hours a day... and of course they lose nothing for dieing this is a new level of insecurity for fame and i want to see a fix espeacially as a REAL pvper

This post is for the GM's to see why we need death loss flame me if u want but i want pvp to actually have worth either take fame out of the game or have it work properly!!!!

For the stuff in yellow.

No matter what kind of title they get they will still be as bad/good as they where before,so dosent make any diffrence to me when i run into em.

Stuff in green.

Just remove it and be done with it seems like the best option.

Cheers

Jabib

Hm, I wouldn't go that far and remove the title system. It still is some kind of reward for PvP. Could use some tweaking, but if you look how many people are upset with the latest change (which brings more PvP BTW...), could you imagine the uproar of that people if you remove it completely?

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Old 04-04-2009, 09:01 PM   #7
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Actions NEED consequences in order to teach the principles of conduct. We are subject to a life of sin where free will can prevail because the capacity to learn from what is aberrant is nothing but sacred. In EQ2, it IS skill to postpone an enemy's capacity to subjugate and pilfer your corpse. Satisfaction is derived out of having a meaningful impact upon those you kill and, likewise, having repercussions that are equally as reactive when you die. It intensifies battle when something is on the line aside from your kill/death ratio, because you can actually make the vehement effort to preserve your life and reap the benefits, or you can simply ignore that aspect of competition. All this did was destroy the liberties available to players and consign everyone to a mindless zerging grind.

People claim titles meant nothing, but they showcased either situational awareness or the capacity to dominate your environment with whatever faculties are available to you. Sure, some people bought and sold fame, but such activities were nothing but scorned by the general public. Now, all you need is a friend with a title in range to yours, and, like Toopoc said, all it takes is a simple 2 minute transaction to impede the impact of decay on the both of you. The bottom line is now that life is lossless in EQ2, and it seems the LS docks grind will go on for some time, a la WOW and WAR, except with far less volume and server stability. Again, fame loss or gain from every title would make the return to consequential conduct in PvP.

(P.S. Having world objectives like those mentioned in parts 1 & 2 of my thread [with the regulations therein, so too] would instigate more homogenous combat, instead of what it is to hug zonelines and immunity.)

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Old 04-04-2009, 09:16 PM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:

Actions NEED consequences in order to teach the principles of conduct. We are subject to a life of sin where free will can prevail because the capacity to learn from what is aberrant is nothing but sacred. In EQ2, it IS skill to postpone an enemy's capacity to subjugate and pilfer your corpse. Satisfaction is derived out of having a meaningful impact upon those you kill and, likewise, having repercussions that are equally as reactive when you die. It intensifies battle when something is on the line aside from your kill/death ratio, because you can actually make the vehement effort to preserve your life and reap the benefits, or you can simply ignore that aspect of competition. All this did was destroy the liberties available to players and consign everyone to a mindless zerging grind.

People claim titles meant nothing, but they showcased either situational awareness or the capacity to dominate your environment with whatever faculties are available to you. Sure, some people bought and sold fame, but such activities were nothing but scorned by the general public. Now, all you need is a friend with a title in range to yours, and, like Toopoc said, all it takes is a simple 2 minute transaction to impede the impact of decay on the both of you. The bottom line is now that life is lossless in EQ2, and it seems the LS docks grind will go on for some time, a la WOW and WAR, except with far less volume and server stability. Again, fame loss or gain from every title would make the return to consequential conduct in PvP.

(P.S. Having world objectives like those mentioned in parts 1 & 2 of my thread [with the regulations therein, so too] would instigate more homogenous combat, instead of what it is to hug zonelines and immunity.)

Thats all fine and dandy sel.

But the reality is that we play a game were skill is heavily tied into gear/class.

Why is it fair to the classes that are weak in pvp to be excluded from the show case price you speak off ?

Only when everybody is equal is it proudent to claim that player skill will dominate.

Cheers

Jabib

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Old 04-05-2009, 12:15 AM   #9
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My ideal PvP system....

  • Fame decay stays, yes even for offlines, but not near as drastic as it is now (hoping its bugged atm)...maybe something like 2 weeks offline=detitle one rank.
  • Get rid of gained immune spots everywhere except cities and guildhalls, 30 second timer on evacs.u If you wanna afk, call back.
  • Titles are maintained by killing anyone, but can only be increased by killing someone equal to or greater than your title.
  • If a player attacks another player and loses, they take a 5% hit to armor. Players that are being attacked do not take the hit, since they are at a disadvantage of being surprised (this keeps the questers happier and keeps people from griefing others just to break armor). Players that attack and win would have the cost of 5% armor added into the money drop of their victim, provided they were at least 5% damaged.
  • After being attacked, those that choose to evac will suffer 5% armor damage...this is to deter the useage without diminishing usefulness in certain situations (i.e. a Q attacks a Freep that is in combat with a mob and immedeately evacs...the Freep would take 5% vs the 10% from dying to the Q/mob combo).
  • The Maj Dul zone is made completely immune, like Moors, and the arena is turned into a cross-faction dueling ring (since it's not like anyone uses the zone anyway, might as well get some use out of it--and this would solve people's griping about people fameleeching off duels by giving them a safe alternative). The arena would not reward any writ updates or fame, and would use current PvP ruleset. Maps would include the current pvp set or just an open ring.
  • Some sort of fame meter is added or at least a known set value to pvp kills...less infamy for killing a solo with a group than a solo killing a solo.
  • Tiered PvP gear, similar to the shard gear is now, so people can have something to pvp toward even after they have the best pieces of their set. 
  • Reward higher titles with special buyable items from merchants. This could be similar to the tiered PvP gear idea; make the t2 pvp gear require Dessy and above+void tokens+plat.

Some of these ideas you might like, some might hate, I just shot my ramblings out to join the plethora of people posting it already.

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Old 04-05-2009, 12:40 AM   #10
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Desna_Venekor wrote:

My ideal PvP system....

  • Fame decay stays, yes even for offlines, but not near as drastic as it is now (hoping its bugged atm)...maybe something like 2 weeks offline=detitle one rank.
  • Get rid of gained immune spots everywhere except cities and guildhalls, 30 second timer on evacs.u If you wanna afk, call back.
  • Titles are maintained by killing anyone, but can only be increased by killing someone equal to or greater than your title.
  • If a player attacks another player and loses, they take a 5% hit to armor. Players that are being attacked do not take the hit, since they are at a disadvantage of being surprised (this keeps the questers happier and keeps people from griefing others just to break armor). Players that attack and win would have the cost of 5% armor added into the money drop of their victim, provided they were at least 5% damaged.
  • After being attacked, those that choose to evac will suffer 5% armor damage...this is to deter the useage without diminishing usefulness in certain situations (i.e. a Q attacks a Freep that is in combat with a mob and immedeately evacs...the Freep would take 5% vs the 10% from dying to the Q/mob combo).
  • The Maj Dul zone is made completely immune, like Moors, and the arena is turned into a cross-faction dueling ring (since it's not like anyone uses the zone anyway, might as well get some use out of it--and this would solve people's griping about people fameleeching off duels by giving them a safe alternative). The arena would not reward any writ updates or fame, and would use current PvP ruleset. Maps would include the current pvp set or just an open ring.
  • Some sort of fame meter is added or at least a known set value to pvp kills...less infamy for killing a solo with a group than a solo killing a solo.
  • Tiered PvP gear, similar to the shard gear is now, so people can have something to pvp toward even after they have the best pieces of their set. 
  • Reward higher titles with special buyable items from merchants. This could be similar to the tiered PvP gear idea; make the t2 pvp gear require Dessy and above+void tokens+plat.

Some of these ideas you might like, some might hate, I just shot my ramblings out to join the plethora of people posting it already.

Add removal of god spells/Cloak of justice/pvp belt/Pumice stone/Zonewide proc items and i think we have a winner here.

Great post.

Cheers

Jabib

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Old 04-05-2009, 02:53 AM   #11
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ulleulle wrote:

Desna_Venekor wrote:

My ideal PvP system....

  • Fame decay stays, yes even for offlines, but not near as drastic as it is now (hoping its bugged atm)...maybe something like 2 weeks offline=detitle one rank.
  • Get rid of gained immune spots everywhere except cities and guildhalls, 30 second timer on evacs.u If you wanna afk, call back.
  • Titles are maintained by killing anyone, but can only be increased by killing someone equal to or greater than your title.
  • If a player attacks another player and loses, they take a 5% hit to armor. Players that are being attacked do not take the hit, since they are at a disadvantage of being surprised (this keeps the questers happier and keeps people from griefing others just to break armor). Players that attack and win would have the cost of 5% armor added into the money drop of their victim, provided they were at least 5% damaged.
  • After being attacked, those that choose to evac will suffer 5% armor damage...this is to deter the useage without diminishing usefulness in certain situations (i.e. a Q attacks a Freep that is in combat with a mob and immedeately evacs...the Freep would take 5% vs the 10% from dying to the Q/mob combo).
  • The Maj Dul zone is made completely immune, like Moors, and the arena is turned into a cross-faction dueling ring (since it's not like anyone uses the zone anyway, might as well get some use out of it--and this would solve people's griping about people fameleeching off duels by giving them a safe alternative). The arena would not reward any writ updates or fame, and would use current PvP ruleset. Maps would include the current pvp set or just an open ring.
  • Some sort of fame meter is added or at least a known set value to pvp kills...less infamy for killing a solo with a group than a solo killing a solo.
  • Tiered PvP gear, similar to the shard gear is now, so people can have something to pvp toward even after they have the best pieces of their set. 
  • Reward higher titles with special buyable items from merchants. This could be similar to the tiered PvP gear idea; make the t2 pvp gear require Dessy and above+void tokens+plat.

Some of these ideas you might like, some might hate, I just shot my ramblings out to join the plethora of people posting it already.

Add removal of god spells/Cloak of justice/pvp belt/Pumice stone/Zonewide proc items and i think we have a winner here.

Great post.

Cheers

Jabib

No make pumice stones only usable by priests, no other way to burn down someones MS without it, if that were the case I should just sit there and say here you go free update. Well kinda is like that now with the one shotting wizards.

Also, Cloak of Justice is really another helpful thing for me to survive just a few seconds longer. These things in the hands of high DPS classes is crazy, but in the hands of the lower DPS classes it is acceptable IMO.

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Old 04-05-2009, 02:55 AM   #12
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ok, whoever says offline fame decay is a good idea needs to be castrated then shot in the face.... its the most retarrded idea ever... so your saying people with lower play times cant have a decent title? its a ploy from sony to get more people to play, fk you sony, if u want more people maybe promote the game, fix existing exploits/hacks and update the servers!! not rocket science!!! dont pull this bs!

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Old 04-05-2009, 03:14 AM   #13
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So much hate.

You should hook up with slowed and his 10 pals and do a group /quit together.

Lighten up and enjoy that pvp has been opend up for more then a handfull of people that otherwise would hug-run-craft-log off or something else that is counter-productive to pvp.

The shackles have come off so to speak =)

Cheers

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Old 04-05-2009, 03:34 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

ok, whoever says offline fame decay is a good idea needs to be castrated then shot in the face.... its the most retarrded idea ever... so your saying people with lower play times cant have a decent title? its a ploy from sony to get more people to play, fk you sony, if u want more people maybe promote the game, fix existing exploits/hacks and update the servers!! not rocket science!!! dont pull this bs!

There's a difference between lower playtime and nonexistant playtime. Furthermore what do you think would happen if there wasn't offlline decay? People would just log off and wait for an update to come by on an alt, jump back on, kill them, and jump off before any real decay hits.

I'm sorry, but lets say overseer Skree (venekor) came back to the game...since he has not been active at all in the game whatsoever for the last what, 6 months, I don't believe he should keep that title.

As for my stance on pumice stone/cloak of justice/pvp belt etc...if it comes from a pvp vendor it was designed for pvp, and I have no qualms about it. The pumice stone, parry belt and fear proc earring all have one big thing in common...they are all pure PvP gear, as they have very limited uses in PvE. They were created as supreme rewards for superb PvP, they help a lot in PvP...but in PvE the parry belt's long reuse time [Removed for Content] it, the pumice stone rarely if ever is used to strip anything off a mob, and the fear proc ring doesn't help healers much more than making multiple mobs easier to solo. Keep these.

Godpowers need a nerf or removal, as right now they are very poorly implemented into PvP and really take no skill to get nor take any skill to use...a FJ+HT combo takes down most single opponents two-shot, and frankly I don't see that as PvP...right now they are simply too easy to abuse.

Zonewide proc items need to be made area of effect, Period.

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Old 04-05-2009, 04:11 AM   #15
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toopoc wrote:

Hi, i know we have all been going through the new pvp changes with the no fame loss and zerg, of course more people are fighting. there is nothing to lose. But i have more of a problem that is making the game unfun! i know a few people who are in game farming each other for fame they kill each other and get fame every thirty minutes and just do this for about 7-9 hours a day... and of course they lose nothing for dieing this is a new level of insecurity for fame and i want to see a fix espeacially as a REAL pvper

This post is for the GM's to see why we need death loss flame me if u want but i want pvp to actually have worth either take fame out of the game or have it work properly!!!!

You know it's funny, was just talking about this in vent the other day with a few people and how we thought that there were people doing it, and who we thought was doing it.  I'd be willing to bet if you posted/PMd the names they would be exactly who we were thinking of

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Old 04-05-2009, 04:16 AM   #16
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Desna_Venekor wrote:

My ideal PvP system....

  • Fame decay stays, yes even for offlines, but not near as drastic as it is now (hoping its bugged atm)...maybe something like 2 weeks offline=detitle one rank. Yes
  • Get rid of gained immune spots everywhere except cities and guildhalls, 30 second timer on evacs. If you wanna afk, call back. Yes
  • Titles are maintained by killing anyone, but can only be increased by killing someone equal to or greater than your title. Yes
  • If a player attacks another player and loses, they take a 5% hit to armor. Players that are being attacked do not take the hit, since they are at a disadvantage of being surprised (this keeps the questers happier and keeps people from griefing others just to break armor). Players that attack and win would have the cost of 5% armor added into the money drop of their victim, provided they were at least 5% damaged. No. You put this in and people just wont engage. We want to avoid that. If you have a problem with someone jumping you while you're questing or whatever, the blue servers are that way -->
  • After being attacked, those that choose to evac will suffer 5% armor damage...this is to deter the useage without diminishing usefulness in certain situations (i.e. a Q attacks a Freep that is in combat with a mob and immedeately evacs...the Freep would take 5% vs the 10% from dying to the Q/mob combo). No. Armour damage is not the way to go. Personally i'd prefer to have evac disabled when in combat.
  • The Maj Dul zone is made completely immune, like Moors, and the arena is turned into a cross-faction dueling ring (since it's not like anyone uses the zone anyway, might as well get some use out of it--and this would solve people's griping about people fameleeching off duels by giving them a safe alternative). The arena would not reward any writ updates or fame, and would use current PvP ruleset. Maps would include the current pvp set or just an open ring. No. There are alot of quests in this zone, even the main story arch of the DoF expansion is focused (at least to start) in Maj'Dul. If you meat the Maj'Dul Arena, then I have no complaints about losing the zone and I don't have an issue with a /duel command, but make it only work in level apropriate zones, and give no immunity. You want to duel your guild mates at level 80? Head on out to RoK/TSO zones and find somewhere nice and secluded... and hope you dont get jumped. This is an open world PvP game, you allow people to pvp in immunity/cities and you can kiss that open world pvp good bye.
  • Some sort of fame meter is added or at least a known set value to pvp kills...less infamy for killing a solo with a group than a solo killing a solo. Don't care.
  • Tiered PvP gear, similar to the shard gear is now, so people can have something to pvp toward even after they have the best pieces of their set. Yes. Also, see THIS THREAD.
  • Reward higher titles with special buyable items from merchants. This could be similar to the tiered PvP gear idea; make the t2 pvp gear require Dessy and above+void tokens+plat. Not bad, but IDC really.

Some of these ideas you might like, some might hate, I just shot my ramblings out to join the plethora of people posting it already.

My comments in red.

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Old 04-05-2009, 09:22 AM   #17
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ulleulle wrote:

So much hate.

You should hook up with slowed and his 10 pals and do a group /quit together.

Lighten up and enjoy that pvp has been opend up for more then a handfull of people that otherwise would hug-run-craft-log off or something else that is counter-productive to pvp.

The shackles have come off so to speak =)

Cheers

Jabib

[Removed for Content] are you talking about, are you retarrded?? counter productive?? u were the biggest safe housing fame [Removed for Content] on the server and what u couldnt get above general? LOL you never fight u wont even fight me now the fame system is fk'd your horrible...

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Old 04-05-2009, 12:58 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

ulleulle wrote:

So much hate.

You should hook up with slowed and his 10 pals and do a group /quit together.

Lighten up and enjoy that pvp has been opend up for more then a handfull of people that otherwise would hug-run-craft-log off or something else that is counter-productive to pvp.

The shackles have come off so to speak =)

Cheers

Jabib

[Removed for Content] are you talking about, are you retarrded?? counter productive?? u were the biggest safe housing fame [Removed for Content] on the server and what u couldnt get above general? LOL you never fight u wont even fight me now the fame system is fk'd your horrible...

THe hate sure is strong in this one.

Cant even get above general <--

Who cares about titles pre lu51 or now twelve.seriously its a joke and always has been.

Im curious here,how old are you really twelve ? <-- serious question

And oh no a melee class not fighting a troub at random ..your truly are ignorant if you dont know how OP your toon is when its a fixed fight.

Roll a dirge if ur trired of people not wanting to fight ur class dude.

Nothing better then people claiming player skill when it infact is class skills that provide 90% of ur kills.

Cheers

Jabib

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