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Old 07-20-2007, 03:57 PM   #121
Thormiel

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[email protected] wrote:
Thormiel wrote: Okay well maybe Darklight Woods is more balanced than the Commonlands. If so, awesome! Did your quests going grey before you could complete them all? Did you do any grouping, or is this all solo? Did anyone mentor you at any point? It's sounds like the game is perfect for your current style of play, whatever that is. My wife is a new player. That was her new player experience. And we weren't using the mentor system with the intent to powerlevel, it just happened that way, because how else are higher levels to play with lower level characters?
If you read more closely at my post, I said specifically that nobody mentored me. As for outleveling quests, yes, a couple of quests were green when I completed them, but so what? I still was able to complete them. I also grouped with a couple of other players at some points to work on a few quests in Darklight Woods and in The Ruins where we were required to hunt some heroic mobs. But they were also equally new alts and nobody mentored them either. Yes your wife is a new player, but the experience she went through was not a typical experience. Not every new player has an army of high level friends ready to mentor down and powerlevel them. You keep claiming that the game need changes based on an atypical experience, and that's not how it should be done. If you want to scale back the power of the mentors, then fine make suggestions for it, but don't demand that the xp rate should be universally lowered because the mentors' power is a bit out of whack.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:34 PM   #122
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ReactorCore wrote:

Look, to the original poster....

 I understand you had some powerleveling issues with your wife, but to me your claims are extremley out of place. You are debating how fast you leveled while mentored, but what you don't seem to be paying attention to is they are the level 5-15ish in range. Those levels inherently are not meant to take along time to complete, your biggest claim seems to be that the player will just be bombarded with buttons and not be familiar with their class.

 To me you took an extreme situation and are comparing it to the overall game, which is not how it should be done. You are using such low levels as examples, and you also are using the old city zones as your referances. Guess what, the Dev's weren't as good at quest progression right when EQ2 came out, so those old cities, yea, you might level up past quests, oh well. go to Darklight woods and from 1-20 you'll have a huge inventory of quests that you finish as they are blue constantly, and being replenished.

Extreme situation?  "Hey dear, been playing EQ2, it's fun, want to play with me?" "Sure, but you're already ahead in level." "No worries, they have a mentor system where I can come down to your level and group with you. And I have some friends who are nice, we'll make a party out of it." "Cool, I like grouping and meeting new people." Later on... "I don't feel like I contributed anything at all to the group, and could you please come downstairs and help me figure all this out?" Later still, with an alt. "Hey, how come my quests are turning grey already?" "Yes, I noticed that it happens kind of fast too." "I can't even use this reward anymore, should I delete these grey quests?" "You can turn off exp." "Really?" *shows her how* Later still... "Well I like the exp off thing, it kind of helps, but everyone else cruising way ahead of me?" "Yeah it's a bit of a drawback. Hard to keep in tandem this way...I guess you could always be mentored to catch up." "But then I'm back to missing out on stuff again." "I guess that's just how it works." Doesn't seem out of place. Seems like an experience anyone could have, not an extreme situation. At any rate I'm growing tired of re-explaining what I think is a pretty straightforward, obvious issue that could use some balancing in the game. Edit: And my "army of friends" is two people.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:39 PM   #123
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[email protected] wrote:
ReactorCore wrote:

Look, to the original poster....

 I understand you had some powerleveling issues with your wife, but to me your claims are extremley out of place. You are debating how fast you leveled while mentored, but what you don't seem to be paying attention to is they are the level 5-15ish in range. Those levels inherently are not meant to take along time to complete, your biggest claim seems to be that the player will just be bombarded with buttons and not be familiar with their class.

 To me you took an extreme situation and are comparing it to the overall game, which is not how it should be done. You are using such low levels as examples, and you also are using the old city zones as your referances. Guess what, the Dev's weren't as good at quest progression right when EQ2 came out, so those old cities, yea, you might level up past quests, oh well. go to Darklight woods and from 1-20 you'll have a huge inventory of quests that you finish as they are blue constantly, and being replenished.

Extreme situation?  "Hey dear, been playing EQ2, it's fun, want to play with me?" "Sure, but you're already ahead in level." "No worries, they have a mentor system where I can come down to your level and group with you. And I have some friends who are nice, we'll make a party out of it." "Cool, I like grouping and meeting new people." Later on... "I don't feel like I contributed anything at all to the group, and could you please come downstairs and help me figure all this out?" Later still, with an alt. "Hey, how come my quests are turning grey already?" "Yes, I noticed that it happens kind of fast too." "I can't even use this reward anymore, should I delete these grey quests?" "You can turn off exp." "Really?" *shows her how* Later still... "Well I like the exp off thing, it kind of helps, but everyone else cruising way ahead of me?" "Yeah it's a bit of a drawback. Hard to keep in tandem this way...I guess you could always be mentored to catch up." "But then I'm back to missing out on stuff again." "I guess that's just how it works." Doesn't seem out of place. Seems like an experience anyone could have, not an extreme situation. At any rate I'm growing tired of re-explaining what I think is a pretty straightforward, obvious issue that could use some balancing in the game.

You could also tell her that there are so many quests in this game that you will never be able to complete them all unless you turn off xp for a couple DAYS at each tier.  Quite simply..

"This game is all about quests.  Why not just play the game and have fun, and don't worry about doing everything all at once?  If you really want to do those quests, come back later and do them with an alt."  There's too much content in this game to worry about getting everything done at first pass.  That's why I have 4 alts, and I really only play 2 of them.  Trust me.  When she hits level 40, she'll be wishing levels went as fast as they did at lower levels.

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Old 07-20-2007, 04:46 PM   #124
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Thormiel wrote:
Vatec wrote:
Answered this several times already.  Allow the player to lock his or her level until they're ready to move on.  Just like single-player games often do (Knights of the Old Republic, Baldur's Gate, Morrowind/Oblivion).  The mechanics are already there (since the game can hold us at a certain level until we choose a profession, click on a plus sign, complete a quest, etc.).  Make it a checkbox in Options and default it to work the way it does now.  Anyone who cares will go looking for the option, the rest won't be affected at all. Done.
I'm sorry but I just don't get the rationale for it. Since the player is willing to lock his level means that he doesn't care about the xp gained from completing the quest. So, why does it matter to the player that he outlevels some quests and that they are grey or green to him and doesn't get any or hardly any xp from them? And just because something can be done or has been done in other games means that it should also be done in this game, and so far I don't see a good reason for it. Many people seem to have this notion that the game must allow one character to do and see everything in the game regardless of what he does, and that notion just seem strange to me. I like that I can't complete every quests out there on one toon, which means that I can create alts and purposefully seek out those other quests and other zones that my other toons have missed. I created one toon who went to Enchanted Lands and worked on the quests in that zone, while I created another toon who went to Orcish Wastes and worked on the quests there instead. To me it means variety, as apart from being different classes they also both have a different path in their leveling also.
Because some quests simply don't update, and thus can't be completed at all, if the mobs are grey?  Because quests won't grant AA xp if they're grey, which leads people to doing silly things like asking total strangers if they can mentor them for 2 minutes so they can turn in a quest?  Because it CAN be made this way and there's no reason NOT to? I'm glad you like things the way they are.  My suggestion has no impact whatsoever on YOUR gameplay.  Why should you care if it's implemented or not?
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:49 PM   #125
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People are devoting an amount of energy in these rants, that just isn't required. It is really quite simple.

 Leveling speed is an entirely SUBJECTIVE thing. Johnny likes fast, Sally likes slow. Who is right? And yet, people pour their hearts into arguing these matters as if they are OBJECTIVE, and that they are right, at least enough, for their particular demands to be catered to.

 I am sorry, but $40-50, and $15 a month does NOT make you CEO or lead Dev. If your personal mantra is the good ole fashioned "cash is king and the customer is always right", then stop half assing it with words, and quit already, and try to get everyone who agress with you to quit. In all my years of playing MMO's, and all the countless threads of angry people ranting about one thing or another, I have only seen 2-3 instances of this sort of approach being taken. And you know what? They worked. *cough WOW Warriors crashing a server* But no, people want to complain and feel their words will magically sprout into their desires.

For the people who think it is too fast. Please, shut off combat exp, skip out on quests, and if that isn't enough, start unequipping pieces of gear to make the mobs harder to kill, and therefore it will be harder to level. Don't think you should have to do that? Well I'm sorry but the Devs disagree. If EQ2 just is too fast for you, go play the original EQ, or Lineage 2. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, you can only make choices for YOURSELF that effect what you get, in other words, go play a different game, or take my above advice. You cannot make choices for other people, forcing the devs to do something, or forcing other players to deal with slower leveling. Make your choices in your life and dictate where it takes you, and what you get. You cannot change EQ2, if that is too much for you, move on, or deal with it. Seeing as how many people are still playing, I'd say people deal with it.

And for those who think it is too slow, *giggles wildly to himself*, you people are seemingly even worse. Lets look at the comment "the leveling in this game is too slow" very closesly.

 What does that say? The rate at which experience is gained, and therefore levels, is too slow, inother words,  I want to level faster. What does leveling faster mean? Spending less time killing monsters, spending less time doing quests, spending less time exploring zones, etc etc.

 What this says to me, is that these people are really caught up in the whole "instant gratification" way of living, OR that for them, it is NOT the journey, but the destination, which one may presume means all they want to do is raid. In that case, all I can say is, I'm sorry, but the world doesn't hand you everything you want, maybe you should have learned more about this game before you bought it. OR, here is an idea, go onto the internet, and BUY a level 50-60-70 character, problem solved. Otherwise just quit, because it is obvious that you, yet again, want to have your cake and eat it too. If you think the leveling in EQ2 is too slow, then MMORPGS are not for you, or you just don't know what you want.

I have played just about every MMO out there right now, with only a few exceptions, and EQ2 is by far the game that has the fastest leveling rate. I'd say in some ways even more than WoW, because in WoW you are practically forced to solo, as the social dynamic in that game is not oriented around grouping at all, whereas in EQ2 you can mentor/group and grind out levels quickly. So seriously, not to be an [I cannot control my vocabulary], or make any attacks at all. But if EQ2 is too slow for you level wise, maybe you need to re-evaluate your desires, because it is obvious that EQ2, and probably MMORPG's in general, are not for you. Or just check out WoW, because in some ways EQ2 is faster, but at least in WoW, you don't have to be "bothered" with playing with other people in a multiplayer game.

If this is all because you claim to not have enough time to play, then that is your problem, not the devs, your life does not dictate other peoples lives, the game exists as it is, and people have plenty of ways to find out that this is how it is. You don't go into Mc donalds and look at the menu, buy a cheeseburger, and then [I cannot control my vocabulary] that it doesn't have chicken on it, that isn't their problem.

 Leveling speed is a subjective, opinion based matter. Everyone has their opinion, all you can do is, if it's such a big deal to you, make an effort to get a game that appeals to you in the first place, or try to find ways to deal with it. You cannot buy an established game, and then flip the bird to other players, and the devs, throw yourself on the ground and start making demands. Thats not the way mature, rational, logical, life experienced adults act.

Companies provide a product, you choose a product and then pay for it, the choice in which product you choose is yours, so choose carefully, or don't choose at all. Because it is NOT, despite how so many people seem to think, in your power, to choose how a product exists. You can cause the creation of new products via your demand, and the demand of others, but it is not in your right to demand the alteration of current products, period. If you bought a Ford and it turns out you want a Toyota, sorry, isn't Fords problem. You get my point. If the company chooses to add, or detract from their products, or offer a new product due to demand, that is their choice, gainig or losing money is THEIR choice, they are not obligated to do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing.

Now proceed to back pedal and rationalize, and cherry pick your arguments, or ignore me entirely. I've said my piece and I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this SUBJECTIVE issue, maybe some of you people need to re-evaluate your own desires, and find out where you REALLY stand, instead of floundering about and attempt to make other peoples choices for them.

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Old 07-20-2007, 04:58 PM   #126
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
ReactorCore wrote:

Look, to the original poster....

 I understand you had some powerleveling issues with your wife, but to me your claims are extremley out of place. You are debating how fast you leveled while mentored, but what you don't seem to be paying attention to is they are the level 5-15ish in range. Those levels inherently are not meant to take along time to complete, your biggest claim seems to be that the player will just be bombarded with buttons and not be familiar with their class.

 To me you took an extreme situation and are comparing it to the overall game, which is not how it should be done. You are using such low levels as examples, and you also are using the old city zones as your referances. Guess what, the Dev's weren't as good at quest progression right when EQ2 came out, so those old cities, yea, you might level up past quests, oh well. go to Darklight woods and from 1-20 you'll have a huge inventory of quests that you finish as they are blue constantly, and being replenished.

Extreme situation?  "Hey dear, been playing EQ2, it's fun, want to play with me?" "Sure, but you're already ahead in level." "No worries, they have a mentor system where I can come down to your level and group with you. And I have some friends who are nice, we'll make a party out of it." "Cool, I like grouping and meeting new people." Later on... "I don't feel like I contributed anything at all to the group, and could you please come downstairs and help me figure all this out?" Later still, with an alt. "Hey, how come my quests are turning grey already?" "Yes, I noticed that it happens kind of fast too." "I can't even use this reward anymore, should I delete these grey quests?" "You can turn off exp." "Really?" *shows her how* Later still... "Well I like the exp off thing, it kind of helps, but everyone else cruising way ahead of me?" "Yeah it's a bit of a drawback. Hard to keep in tandem this way...I guess you could always be mentored to catch up." "But then I'm back to missing out on stuff again." "I guess that's just how it works." Doesn't seem out of place. Seems like an experience anyone could have, not an extreme situation. At any rate I'm growing tired of re-explaining what I think is a pretty straightforward, obvious issue that could use some balancing in the game.

You could also tell her that there are so many quests in this game that you will never be able to complete them all unless you turn off xp for a couple DAYS at each tier.  Quite simply..

"This game is all about quests.  Why not just play the game and have fun, and don't worry about doing everything all at once?  If you really want to do those quests, come back later and do them with an alt."  There's too much content in this game to worry about getting everything done at first pass.  That's why I have 4 alts, and I really only play 2 of them.  Trust me.  When she hits level 40, she'll be wishing levels went as fast as they did at lower levels.

Again, thank you everyone for your posts, even if you don't agree. Discussion is good. So it sounds like levels 40 up this is a pretty much an non-issue, which is good to know. And Darklight Wood sounds like a more balanced area. And ya know, I wouldn't bother making a post on the forums for one or two quests gone green. It's not like I got 20 quests in Butcher, 15 in Thundering Steppes,  24 in Nek and I'm saying, "hey, this is too fast I can't do it all!" I happy for those with a good experience, and I appreciate your input as well. Edit: And it's not like my experience has been bad. I like EQ2. My wife likes EQ2. It's because I like the game I'm discussing it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 04:59 PM   #127
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Thormiel wrote:
ReactorCore wrote:

Look, to the original poster....

 I understand you had some powerleveling issues with your wife, but to me your claims are extremley out of place.

This is what puzzles me about the OP's opinion. He keeps basing his argument on an experience that is far from typical and wants the game changed based on that not-so-normal experience. That's like me looking at some some select millionaire in an poor country and decide that there must be only wealthy people in that country and so there should be no foreign aid be given to that country.
Maybe because he thinks that experience =should= be typical?  Maybe he expects that, in a multiplayer game, friends might want to play together even if some of them started long before the others?  Maybe he thinks that grouping at the lower levels =should= be an encouraged playstyle? I prefer to solo.  I really hate waiting around to form a group, etc.  But I certainly don't want to impose that playstyle on other people.  Just as I wouldn't want grouping to be =forced= on me. Give him the option to play the way he wants to.  The mechanics are already built into the game.  It might be more effort to implement than it appears to be, in which case I certainly wouldn't prioritize it.  But if it's feasible, it should be an option. People asked for the option to sell from all their characters simultaneously.  SOE is giving them that option with LU37.  So they do listen.  Maybe they'll listen to this request too.  We can only hope.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:03 PM   #128
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Balamoor wrote:

 I laugh every time I see a thread like this.  If you want leveling to be more of a tedious punishment, turn off combat XP,  play without any armor, place a couple of rabid  badgers between you and your mouse...anything, just don't even think about forcing your punishment based play style on other players. Leveling is fine, perhaps the OP needs a game like Lineage or Archlord?

And I laugh every time I see someone jump to conclusions and post a response without actually reading the thread.  What's your point? OP doesn't want to affect YOUR gameplay, he just wants to have the option to improve his own :^P
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:23 PM   #129
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Here's another idea... When you get a quest, especially in the lower-levels... go work on it.  Don't grab every job and assignment that every Tom, Dick and Harry is willing to hand out. When you're done with that one, then move on to the next quest.  Oh, it's grey? Pssh, Mister NPC! I am far too skilled to demean myself with such a task! Go kill your own giant rats! Though I have yet to find a quest that doesn't award updates from grey mobs.  I did a level 20 quest in Vermin Snye, soloing, on a level 52 Brigand and got all the updates just fine.  I still do some Farseas quests if I stumble on an order that I haven't done before, even if I am level 53.  Why? Why not? It's not like killing armadillos in CL is fundamentally different than killing crocodiles in SS or dragonflies in LFay.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:32 PM   #130
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Siogai wrote:
Here's another idea... When you get a quest, especially in the lower-levels... go work on it.  Don't grab every job and assignment that every Tom, [I cannot control my vocabulary] and Harry is willing to hand out. When you're done with that one, then move on to the next quest.  Oh, it's grey? Pssh, Mister NPC! I am far too skilled to demean myself with such a task! Go kill your own giant rats! Though I have yet to find a quest that doesn't award updates from grey mobs.  I did a level 20 quest in Vermin Snye, soloing, on a level 52 Brigand and got all the updates just fine.  I still do some Farseas quests if I stumble on an order that I haven't done before, even if I am level 53.  Why? Why not? It's not like killing armadillos in CL is fundamentally different than killing crocodiles in SS or dragonflies in LFay.
But why pass up on quests that might take you to the same areas?  Might as well capitalize on time and kill things that need the same thing, or things in the same area, right?
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:37 PM   #131
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LionWilled wrote:

People are devoting an amount of energy in these rants, that just isn't required. It is really quite simple.

 Leveling speed is an entirely SUBJECTIVE thing. Johnny likes fast, Sally likes slow. Who is right? And yet, people pour their hearts into arguing these matters as if they are OBJECTIVE, and that they are right, at least enough, for their particular demands to be catered to.

 I am sorry, but $40-50, and $15 a month does NOT make you CEO or lead Dev. If your personal mantra is the good ole fashioned "cash is king and the customer is always right", then stop half assing it with words, and quit already, and try to get everyone who agress with you to quit. In all my years of playing MMO's, and all the countless threads of angry people ranting about one thing or another, I have only seen 2-3 instances of this sort of approach being taken. And you know what? They worked. *cough WOW Warriors crashing a server* But no, people want to complain and feel their words will magically sprout into their desires.

For the people who think it is too fast. Please, shut off combat exp, skip out on quests, and if that isn't enough, start unequipping pieces of gear to make the mobs harder to kill, and therefore it will be harder to level. Don't think you should have to do that? Well I'm sorry but the Devs disagree. If EQ2 just is too fast for you, go play the original EQ, or Lineage 2. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, you can only make choices for YOURSELF that effect what you get, in other words, go play a different game, or take my above advice. You cannot make choices for other people, forcing the devs to do something, or forcing other players to deal with slower leveling. Make your choices in your life and dictate where it takes you, and what you get. You cannot change EQ2, if that is too much for you, move on, or deal with it. Seeing as how many people are still playing, I'd say people deal with it.

And for those who think it is too slow, *giggles wildly to himself*, you people are seemingly even worse. Lets look at the comment "the leveling in this game is too slow" very closesly.

 What does that say? The rate at which experience is gained, and therefore levels, is too slow, inother words,  I want to level faster. What does leveling faster mean? Spending less time killing monsters, spending less time doing quests, spending less time exploring zones, etc etc.

 What this says to me, is that these people are really caught up in the whole "instant gratification" way of living, OR that for them, it is NOT the journey, but the destination, which one may presume means all they want to do is raid. In that case, all I can say is, I'm sorry, but the world doesn't hand you everything you want, maybe you should have learned more about this game before you bought it. OR, here is an idea, go onto the internet, and BUY a level 50-60-70 character, problem solved. Otherwise just quit, because it is obvious that you, yet again, want to have your cake and eat it too. If you think the leveling in EQ2 is too slow, then MMORPGS are not for you, or you just don't know what you want.

I have played just about every MMO out there right now, with only a few exceptions, and EQ2 is by far the game that has the fastest leveling rate. I'd say in some ways even more than WoW, because in WoW you are practically forced to solo, as the social dynamic in that game is not oriented around grouping at all, whereas in EQ2 you can mentor/group and grind out levels quickly. So seriously, not to be an [I cannot control my vocabulary], or make any attacks at all. But if EQ2 is too slow for you level wise, maybe you need to re-evaluate your desires, because it is obvious that EQ2, and probably MMORPG's in general, are not for you. Or just check out WoW, because in some ways EQ2 is faster, but at least in WoW, you don't have to be "bothered" with playing with other people in a multiplayer game.

If this is all because you claim to not have enough time to play, then that is your problem, not the devs, your life does not dictate other peoples lives, the game exists as it is, and people have plenty of ways to find out that this is how it is. You don't go into Mc donalds and look at the menu, buy a cheeseburger, and then [I cannot control my vocabulary] that it doesn't have chicken on it, that isn't their problem.

 Leveling speed is a subjective, opinion based matter. Everyone has their opinion, all you can do is, if it's such a big deal to you, make an effort to get a game that appeals to you in the first place, or try to find ways to deal with it. You cannot buy an established game, and then flip the bird to other players, and the devs, throw yourself on the ground and start making demands. Thats not the way mature, rational, logical, life experienced adults act.

Companies provide a product, you choose a product and then pay for it, the choice in which product you choose is yours, so choose carefully, or don't choose at all. Because it is NOT, despite how so many people seem to think, in your power, to choose how a product exists. You can cause the creation of new products via your demand, and the demand of others, but it is not in your right to demand the alteration of current products, period. If you bought a Ford and it turns out you want a Toyota, sorry, isn't Fords problem. You get my point. If the company chooses to add, or detract from their products, or offer a new product due to demand, that is their choice, gainig or losing money is THEIR choice, they are not obligated to do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing.

Now proceed to back pedal and rationalize, and cherry pick your arguments, or ignore me entirely. I've said my piece and I think it's pretty clear where I stand on this SUBJECTIVE issue, maybe some of you people need to re-evaluate your own desires, and find out where you REALLY stand, instead of floundering about and attempt to make other peoples choices for them.

Okay, there's some interesting points in here, but the fascist approach leaves something to be desired. If I'm supposed to shut up and like it, or get a bunch of people to crash a server like your WoW example (real mature I might add), then why have a forum to post my thoughts? I'm sure the Devs would much rather I discuss things here openly then try and crash a server or take other "action." You say I should choose carefully, because it's not my right to request an alteration? How am I to know if the game is right for me until I get in and play it, and play it with other people, level up a bit. I waited until I had at least 3 characters to level 30 before I thought hmmm... I think this is an issue, and posted. I read plenty of reviews and articles about how much better EQ2 is and that people should consider coming back, etc. Not one wrote about leveling speed. I didn't expect them too, it's something that needs to be experienced. Having spent $100 for 2 copies of classic 2+ years ago, $60 for 2 rereleased Faydwer editions to get caught up, and monthly fees, and liking the game in general, I'm not simply going to say, oh I should be playing Lineage 2, screw this. It's a whole different game, with a whole different dynamic, and has much worse problems. No, I'm going to say something here, it hopes maybe something becomes of it. If not, so be it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:45 PM   #132
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Extreme situation?  "Hey dear, been playing EQ2, it's fun, want to play with me?" "Sure, but you're already ahead in level." "No worries, they have a mentor system where I can come down to your level and group with you. And I have some friends who are nice, we'll make a party out of it." "Cool, I like grouping and meeting new people." Later on... "I don't feel like I contributed anything at all to the group, and could you please come downstairs and help me figure all this out?" Later still, with an alt. "Hey, how come my quests are turning grey already?" "Yes, I noticed that it happens kind of fast too." "I can't even use this reward anymore, should I delete these grey quests?" "You can turn off exp." "Really?" *shows her how* Later still... "Well I like the exp off thing, it kind of helps, but everyone else cruising way ahead of me?" "Yeah it's a bit of a drawback. Hard to keep in tandem this way...I guess you could always be mentored to catch up." "But then I'm back to missing out on stuff again." "I guess that's just how it works." Doesn't seem out of place. Seems like an experience anyone could have, not an extreme situation.

1.) You ignored virtually everything about my post except the extreme situation part.

2.)  Your complaining because your wife went through levels 8-18, which are typically fast anyway, "too quickly." Which means what? That she may have to take an extra 20-30 minutes to look at her hotbar and figure out what the various spells do? Is there any abilitys below level 20 you really have to strain the mind to figure out what they are meant to do, or how to use them? She may not be the most effective in a group, but it sure as hell shouldn't be that hard for her to pick up on various spells, or you, yourself, could have taken a half hour to go set her hotbars up properly for her, and helped her figure out what to cast and when.

3.) Your still using a mentored example. And really, who cares what so ever if a quest goes grey? There are people who LEVEL LOCK and still can't finish all quests in any given Tier because the Dev's have put that much QUALITY CONTENT into the game. So no matter -what- you do, you will not experience all the quests in any given tier on one character, which is why I dont get your complaint.

When I read all of the posts in this thread, especially yours, Dear OP, I get the feeling the only real complaint you have still held onto that's going is, "We mentored, my wife leveled up a bunch, and now doesn't know what her spells do." All of which, are extremley simple fixes. Spend time with her character, and I doubt she won't pick up on her class.

So really... what is the issue her? You do realize with Kunark we will have 80 levels to play through on a new character, right? You make it out to sound like levels 1-30, which aren't even half the levels available, and are by far the easiest, should take weeks to obtain. Leveling is fine, I said you were using an EXTREME example because your using levels MEANT to take 10 minutes to fly through (5-10) and the other levels (10-1SMILEY that anyone who has played EQ2 knows you can fly through. It's how the game is designed.

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Old 07-20-2007, 05:45 PM   #133
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Siogai wrote:
Pssh, Mister NPC! I am far too skilled to demean myself with such a task! Go kill your own giant rats!
Most brilliant!
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Old 07-20-2007, 05:45 PM   #134
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But why pass up on quests that might take you to the same areas?  Might as well capitalize on time and kill things that need the same thing, or things in the same area, right?
As yet another idea... Grab all these quests, turn Combat XP off, and then go do them, cashing in at the end for the big XP pay-off as you complete.  Best of both worlds here, really, XP award, loot, quest-payout and slower levelling speed.
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Old 07-20-2007, 06:04 PM   #135
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Okay... but once again your talking about things that are not difficult to explain to somebody. The bottom line here is who gives a rats [I cannot control my vocabulary] if your quests go gray before you complete them? What do you want, to explore every inch of every Tier? Do you want to fully exhaust your quest journal? People who freaking level lock can outlevel areas because the Dev's have put in SO MUCH quality content into EQ2.

 I also love how you skipped over everything else I wrote, and only addressed the "extreme situation" part. You still completley ignored that while she may have zoomed by the lower levels, good luck mentoring and having her "fly through" anything level 30+. We're about to have 80 levels to get through, what do you purpose, that level 1-30, which isnt even half the available levels, takes 3 months to play through? And your still addressing the mentoring system, and complaining she flew through the levels, if your wife is not competent enough to be able to look at her spellbook and mess around and experiment with things to learn them, maybe EQ2 is not for her.

Like I said, at all low levels we all had our spell bars in a mess, but you know what? You could give me a level 20 character I've never played that class of, and If I ran around for half an hour or a hour and experimented, I could figure it out in a [I cannot control my vocabulary] hurry, you yourself could have just taken twenty minutes to get off your computer chair, go downstairs, and explain various spells to her.

But that is too simple, you would rather say the system must be tweaked because she went through the horribly hard levels of 8-18 "too fast" for your liking.

First point: I'd much rather look at a quest book and say, okay with the exception of a few quests that are epic and need larger groups, and maybe one or two that went grey on me, yeah I did it. I completed this tier! Whoo hoo for me. Who wants to look at a journal, and under commonlands the first 5-7 quests have turned grey because you just dinged a new level? Second point: You want me to discuss levels I haven't experienced? I can't tell you what level 40-50, 50-60, 60-70 is like because I'm not there. Much less mentoring that high. Hey, tell me what leveling 70-80 is like, I'd like to know. I have however acknowledged people who confirm level 40+ takes more time, and stated, hey that's good to know. Third point: My wife is compentent. She's learned much playing. But she was new at the time, and maybe you've just forgotten what it's like starting a new MMO with so many features. It's not just spells & combat arts, but achievements, racial bonuses, master 2s, other specialties, and when 10 levels blur by, yes, it's easy to become overwhelmed. Fourth point: It's good you can learn a class so quick. Want a cookie? Lastly pointing out examples is not saying, I want you to fix this game for my wife dammit! It's to illustrate a point. A point that is completely lost on you for some reason. Sorry you don't get it.
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Old 07-20-2007, 06:24 PM   #136
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First point: I'd much rather look at a quest book and say, okay with the exception of a few quests that are epic and need larger groups, and maybe one or two that went grey on me, yeah I did it. I completed this tier! Whoo hoo for me. Who wants to look at a journal, and under commonlands the first 5-7 quests have turned grey because you just dinged a new level? Second point: You want me to discuss levels I haven't experienced? I can't tell you what level 40-50, 50-60, 60-70 is like because I'm not there. Much less mentoring that high. Hey, tell me what leveling 70-80 is like, I'd like to know. I have however acknowledged people who confirm level 40+ takes more time, and stated, hey that's good to know. Third point: My wife is compentent. She's learned much playing. But she was new at the time, and maybe you've just forgotten what it's like starting a new MMO with so many features. It's not just spells & combat arts, but achievements, racial bonuses, master 2s, other specialties, and when 10 levels blur by, yes, it's easy to become overwhelmed. Fourth point: It's good you can learn a class so quick. Want a cookie? Lastly pointing out examples is not saying, I want you to fix this game for my wife dammit! It's to illustrate a point. A point that is completely lost on you for some reason. Sorry you don't get it.

1.) Yes, maybe you don't want to look at your journal and see grey quests, but I don't know why you don't see that as a sign of progress to the new areas. Really there are only a few areas that come to mind with awsome questlines that take you through the whole zone (Barren Sky, Bonemire, Steamfont, Feerott, to name a few) so most of the quests you have are unrelated, so if you ding and the quests go grey, and you haven't started working on them yet, why not just delete them and start a new tier?

2.) Higher levels take alot more time, maybe a big part of your issue is you haven't experienced as much of the game yet then, but I can tell you going from level 61-62 is generally not a 1-2 hour process, unless you have an absolutley amazing group, without vitality it is very much a grind to get from 61-62, 62-63, etc, and even being mentored it's still a crawl.

3.) Maybe I have forgotten a bit, but still, why couldn't you just take some time out to show her on your own character what the basic's are before she really get's into playing? Again, I'm really not trying to rag on you as much as see things from your point of view, it just seems you want the dev's to fix things that you yourself could show your wife. MMO's can be complex, but at the low levels the game does a pretty good job with those text boxs that pop up explaining things about your choices, I mean, EQ2 is pretty newbie friendly.

4.) A cookie would be nice, but not my point, the point was that, like above, in EQ2 you can learn a class fairly quickly with just trying various things or reading on your various spells, there's also tons of websites out there that go through level by level and have descriptions of what a class should focus on, etc.

Lastly: Your point isn't "lost" on me, I simply disagree with your points thus far, and don't feel they are all that valid, mainly because what your discussing is very low levels that are almost designed to be blown through, sure you can take your time, but for most, levels 10-20 is just a springboard, not something that they are [Removed for Content] off about passing.

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Old 07-20-2007, 07:56 PM   #137
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ReactorCore wrote:
1.) Yes, maybe you don't want to look at your journal and see grey quests, but I don't know why you don't see that as a sign of progress to the new areas. Really there are only a few areas that come to mind with awsome questlines that take you through the whole zone (Barren Sky, Bonemire, Steamfont, Feerott, to name a few) so most of the quests you have are unrelated, so if you ding and the quests go grey, and you haven't started working on them yet, why not just delete them and start a new tier?

2.) Higher levels take alot more time, maybe a big part of your issue is you haven't experienced as much of the game yet then, but I can tell you going from level 61-62 is generally not a 1-2 hour process, unless you have an absolutley amazing group, without vitality it is very much a grind to get from 61-62, 62-63, etc, and even being mentored it's still a crawl.

3.) Maybe I have forgotten a bit, but still, why couldn't you just take some time out to show her on your own character what the basic's are before she really get's into playing? Again, I'm really not trying to rag on you as much as see things from your point of view, it just seems you want the dev's to fix things that you yourself could show your wife. MMO's can be complex, but at the low levels the game does a pretty good job with those text boxs that pop up explaining things about your choices, I mean, EQ2 is pretty newbie friendly.

4.) A cookie would be nice, but not my point, the point was that, like above, in EQ2 you can learn a class fairly quickly with just trying various things or reading on your various spells, there's also tons of websites out there that go through level by level and have descriptions of what a class should focus on, etc.

Lastly: Your point isn't "lost" on me, I simply disagree with your points thus far, and don't feel they are all that valid, mainly because what your discussing is very low levels that are almost designed to be blown through, sure you can take your time, but for most, levels 10-20 is just a springboard, not something that they are [Removed for Content] off about passing.

1. I have deleted quests, and moved on, and then started to wonder, why is a game with all this story and lore, questing and adventuring, pushing me through so fast that it all becomes obsolete so quickly? What is the point of that? Why quest then? Let's go back to the grinder, eh? 2. High level is high level. When I get there, if I see a glaring imbalance, I'll probably say something. I'm not going to be all presumptuous about what that is like. In fact, I'll make sure I have multiple high levels before I say anything. If there's anything to say, which I hope there isn't. 3. I did show her the basic ropes. But back then, she was playing a class I never played. What could I tell her? All we wanted to do is group. The early tutorial stuff is great. It's not about that. In a game where grouping and mentoring should be a positive, it pushed her way too quickly. You being adept at all classes will have no issue with this, in fact it's probably great for you because it gets you where you want to be quicker. 4. Sorry about the cookie thing. I'm actually happy to read people take time to learn classes. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone I think. The websites are there, and I've referenced them. But do you honestly think someone who's more casual about things wants to do all this research on how not to level too fast, and what to do with spells, and class strategies? Especially when she didn't see it coming, and is just getting started? I think honestly, all she's looking for at this early stage is some fun. I don't agree low levels are meant to be blown through. If it were there'd be less content and no issue. Vets like you may see levels 1-30 as fodder, and that's okay, but I'm in a different camp. And not really [Removed for Content]. Just pointing it out.
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Old 07-20-2007, 08:32 PM   #138
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1. I have deleted quests, and moved on, and then started to wonder, why is a game with all this story and lore, questing and adventuring, pushing me through so fast that it all becomes obsolete so quickly? What is the point of that? Why quest then? Let's go back to the grinder, eh? 2. High level is high level. When I get there, if I see a glaring imbalance, I'll probably say something. I'm not going to be all presumptuous about what that is like. In fact, I'll make sure I have multiple high levels before I say anything. If there's anything to say, which I hope there isn't. 3. I did show her the basic ropes. But back then, she was playing a class I never played. What could I tell her? All we wanted to do is group. The early tutorial stuff is great. It's not about that. In a game where grouping and mentoring should be a positive, it pushed her way too quickly. You being adept at all classes will have no issue with this, in fact it's probably great for you because it gets you where you want to be quicker. 4. Sorry about the cookie thing. I'm actually happy to read people take time to learn classes. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone I think. The websites are there, and I've referenced them. But do you honestly think someone who's more casual about things wants to do all this research on how not to level too fast, and what to do with spells, and class strategies? Especially when she didn't see it coming, and is just getting started? I think honestly, all she's looking for at this early stage is some fun. I don't agree low levels are meant to be blown through. If it were there'd be less content and no issue. Vets like you may see levels 1-30 as fodder, and that's okay, but I'm in a different camp. And not really [Removed for Content]. Just pointing it out.

At least our banter has made my work day go faster, as well as being enjoyable....

1.) The lore thing you are talking about is exactly my point actually, most of the quests that you end up doing early on really reveal nothing about the the lore or mystery of Norrath, some may, but most of them are just the kind of "fetch" quests most rpg's have early on, ie: run to this guy, then kill 10 rats, return for reward, which dont really do anything, that may be part of the reason they have so many quests that are greyable, I would argue there are very few storylines (unfortunatley) that truley go into detail about the land, just many of the players are from everquest 1 so they have a broad knowledge of that allready.

 2.) The high level is, more or less, what it is, it's well done, but the levels definetley slow down, I will say you won't be complaining about blowing through levels 50+ though hehe.

3.) I understand completley that you may not be able to define a class to her well that you yourself haven't played, but let's be honest, the spells a class get's early on are usually extremley clear cut unless you are a class such as Coercer or Illusionist, generally before 20 it's just basic Combat Art's which are simply "Does X Damage" or does "X Damage over time", or minor debuffs, but the thing is even at level 18 she could have gone to commonlands and just fought greenies until she was comfortable with the class. I can see your point to a degree here if you think it's moving a brand new player too fast, I still just feel a little tinkering around would have gone along way here.

4.) True, alot of players may not want to do research or even realize such tools exist out there, but I'm just saying, with a MMO you typically get out of it what you put in, if your willing to do a little homework and figure things out, it may make playing and learning the class a easy transition. I just mean I'm sure that if your wife sat there for a hour and messed around with her abilities, that slowly she would have realized what spells work best in your basic situations, obviously more advanced things cannot always be taught right away or learned, but we all went through that phase, I was always excited to get new abilities and to find out what the next ones were.

 As far as the last point, I'm not sure wether the dev's designed the lower levels to get blown through or not, but the reason I state that is from 1-10 just a few quests if that each level will ding you, so obviously they didn't intend for people to be in those stages that long, 20-30 I can buy, as I remember playing back in Fallen Gate and it taking 3 hours or so a level when we weren't being mentored. I just think you and the wife need to play a bit more, and I bet you anything by the time she hits 20-22, she'll find the exp going slow enough where she has mroe than enough time to explore what she wants, and is able to learn the ins and outs of her choosen class, and before you know it, she'll feel right at home.

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Old 07-20-2007, 08:40 PM   #139
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Vatec wrote:
Maybe because he thinks that experience =should= be typical?  Maybe he expects that, in a multiplayer game, friends might want to play together even if some of them started long before the others?  Maybe he thinks that grouping at the lower levels =should= be an encouraged playstyle? I prefer to solo.  I really hate waiting around to form a group, etc.  But I certainly don't want to impose that playstyle on other people.  Just as I wouldn't want grouping to be =forced= on me. Give him the option to play the way he wants to.  The mechanics are already built into the game.  It might be more effort to implement than it appears to be, in which case I certainly wouldn't prioritize it.  But if it's feasible, it should be an option. People asked for the option to sell from all their characters simultaneously.  SOE is giving them that option with LU37.  So they do listen.  Maybe they'll listen to this request too.  We can only hope.
And people have suggested he turns the combat xp off, which he calls a loophole that he doesn't believe he should have to use. Doesn't sound to me that he wants an option to lock his level but he wants to reduce the amount of xp gained universally, meaning that a new player who doesn't have a bunch of higher level friends to mentor and power level him would then face a much slower leveling pace. Like I said in my previous post if he dislike the powerleveling side effect of the mentoring system, then fine ask for it to be tweaked. If he wants a level lock, fine, ask and lobby for it. No skin off  my nose. But he seem to want the xp gain to be lowered for everyone, and that I'm not fine with, especially when he's basing his request on a not normal powerleveling situation.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:01 PM   #140
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[email protected] wrote:
1. I have deleted quests, and moved on, and then started to wonder, why is a game with all this story and lore, questing and adventuring, pushing me through so fast that it all becomes obsolete so quickly? What is the point of that? Why quest then? Let's go back to the grinder, eh? 2. High level is high level. When I get there, if I see a glaring imbalance, I'll probably say something. I'm not going to be all presumptuous about what that is like. In fact, I'll make sure I have multiple high levels before I say anything. If there's anything to say, which I hope there isn't. 3. I did show her the basic ropes. But back then, she was playing a class I never played. What could I tell her? All we wanted to do is group. The early tutorial stuff is great. It's not about that. In a game where grouping and mentoring should be a positive, it pushed her way too quickly. You being adept at all classes will have no issue with this, in fact it's probably great for you because it gets you where you want to be quicker. 4. Sorry about the cookie thing. I'm actually happy to read people take time to learn classes. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone I think. The websites are there, and I've referenced them. But do you honestly think someone who's more casual about things wants to do all this research on how not to level too fast, and what to do with spells, and class strategies? Especially when she didn't see it coming, and is just getting started? I think honestly, all she's looking for at this early stage is some fun. I don't agree low levels are meant to be blown through. If it were there'd be less content and no issue. Vets like you may see levels 1-30 as fodder, and that's okay, but I'm in a different camp. And not really [Removed for Content]. Just pointing it out.
Could you please clarify what exactly you're looking for here? A level lock where a player can disable any xp gain from combat, quests, exploration which would give him more time to go through all the quests for that level range, or are you suggesting that the XP gained from combat, quests and exploration should be reduced drastically to slow down the leveling pace? If it's a level lock, then fine I don't have anything against it, even though I still don't understand why people feel this need to get everything done on one toon, but as it wouldn't affect me, I won't argue against it If you want the XP gain to be lowered universally for everyone, then no, I'm not ok with it. I'm quite happy with the speed of leveling between 1-54 at least, with 54 being the highest level toon I have after close to 3 years of playing. I also have a couple in the 40s, a couple in the 30s and a few in the 20s, which btw is another way to be able to play with a friend who just started since I have a toon in almost every level range up to my highest toon. If you want the xp gain to be lowered universally, consider this; you've been citing the outleveling of quests as an example of how the leveling is too fast, well, guess what, the number of quests is just going to grow as a new expansion rolls out, and it will grow again when another new expansion is introduced, and again, and again. EQ1 is up to what, 10 expansions now? So, how much would you lower the xp gain then? Every time a new expansion comes out you want the devs to lower the amount of xp gain just so that a player doesn't outlevel not only the existing quest for his level, but also the new quests just introduced with the new expansion? That just doesn't seem feasible to me.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:26 PM   #141
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Leveling is what you make of it...

It's fast for those that want it to be fast..

Only thing that should be considered to slow it down for those that want to experience it all at every tier is xp should be able to be disabled for combat xp and quest xp if the person really wants to level lock.  And no this is not a loop hole, it was designed from day one to allow you time to explore and see more at your pace.  The issue is quests and collections still give xp and it moves you fast.

As far as the dev's designing the system to quickly level you at the lower levels.. yeah that is by design it has never taken long to move from 1 to 10.  And not much longer to move from 11 to 20.  It slowed down at 20, which it doesn now. 

There is simply to much to do in this game for one character on an account to absolutely experience it all.  I have multiple 70th level toons and have yet to seriously put a sizable dent in the quests ect in the game even combined with all my characters.  My top quester my original character has 2630 quests completed, some of which you can't even get anymore.  And that doesn't really even begin to put a dent in it.

If you level to fast, start another character, or turn off xp, questing still giving xp?  Don't do quests until you are happy with your skills on your chosen character... That is a choice you can make.  You choose to do quests and stuff that levels you in your opinion way to fast, then don't do them it is the game mechanics and most are very happy to have it that way.  After all the enhanced xp gain was demanded by the player population a while back when they thought it was just to much grinding to get there...

I hope you find a way to adapt as this is a very fun game and once you have greyed a quest you can always mentor down and do it with your wife or vice versa while it's colored.  Honestly many of the bigger quests aren't even doable by a fair amount of the player population and the only reason many of them are seeing the end result of those quest lines is because they are using the higher levels in the game to offset the difficulty of the final stages... not neccessarily fair but at least you can see the prismatic reward, peacock and very very soon the claymore line on your less then uber raiding toons...

Good luck to you.

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Old 07-20-2007, 10:00 PM   #142
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keep in mind your talking about levels up to 30 as well and those levels do fly 

try to continue leveling at that same pace mcuh beyond taht  (esspecialy mostly solo) and you will find things slow down CONSIDERABLY

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Old 07-21-2007, 02:35 AM   #143
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deleted for double post

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Old 07-21-2007, 02:38 AM   #144
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Edit again:

Not sure whats up with the forums

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Old 07-21-2007, 02:49 AM   #145
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Vatec wrote:
Balamoor wrote:

 I laugh every time I see a thread like this.  If you want leveling to be more of a tedious punishment, turn off combat XP,  play without any armor, place a couple of rabid  badgers between you and your mouse...anything, just don't even think about forcing your punishment based play style on other players. Leveling is fine, perhaps the OP needs a game like Lineage or Archlord?

And I laugh every time I see someone jump to conclusions and post a response without actually reading the thread.  What's your point? OP doesn't want to affect YOUR gameplay, he just wants to have the option to improve his own :^P
You know your totally right...I completely jumped the gun on this one....apologies   SMILEY
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Old 07-21-2007, 02:19 PM   #146
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Balamoor wrote:
Vatec wrote:
Balamoor wrote:

 I laugh every time I see a thread like this.  If you want leveling to be more of a tedious punishment, turn off combat XP,  play without any armor, place a couple of rabid  badgers between you and your mouse...anything, just don't even think about forcing your punishment based play style on other players. Leveling is fine, perhaps the OP needs a game like Lineage or Archlord?

And I laugh every time I see someone jump to conclusions and post a response without actually reading the thread.  What's your point? OP doesn't want to affect YOUR gameplay, he just wants to have the option to improve his own :^P
You know your totally right...I completely jumped the gun on this one....apologies   SMILEY
NP. And sorry if I sounded harsh. I realize most people see a 9 page thread, read a post or two, and jump in with a comment. I've certainly done it myself. It just irks me when I think people have jumped to conclusions. And when you've seen a dozen threads on the same topic, it's a very strong tendency to assume you know what the poster is saying, without actually reading. So, no harm done, and my apologies in return.
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21+ Dirge, 20+ Paladin, 15+ Conjuror, 14+ Assassin, 14+ Defiler, 13+ Shadowknight
and a few others

90 Provisioner, 41+ Woodworker, 34+ Carpenter
41+ Tailor, 30+ Armorer, 29+ Weaponsmith
70+ Jeweler, 51+ Alchemist, 29+ Sage

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Old 07-21-2007, 03:30 PM   #147
Balamoor

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Vatec wrote:
Vatec wrote:
And I laugh every time I see someone jump to conclusions and post a response without actually reading the thread.  What's your point? OP doesn't want to affect YOUR gameplay, he just wants to have the option to improve his own :^P
You know your totally right...I completely jumped the gun on this one....apologies   SMILEY
NP. And sorry if I sounded harsh. I realize most people see a 9 page thread, read a post or two, and jump in with a comment. I've certainly done it myself. It just irks me when I think people have jumped to conclusions. And when you've seen a dozen threads on the same topic, it's a very strong tendency to assume you know what the poster is saying, without actually reading. So, no harm done, and my apologies in return.
No worries,  and to add somthing constructive the OP might want to Consider a Ranger.  To me even with all the changes playing a Ranger can still be tough sleading after 20.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:29 AM   #148
Vatec

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Actually, the last few levels have gone by frighteningly fast. Started doing HQs with some new friends and have gained like 6 levels in the last 4 days. And yes, even with combat xp turned off part of the time and mentoring part of the time. And yeah, this is on my ranger ;^) I'm now running around with armor, poisons, and potions that are significantly out of date, because my leveling speed has exceeded my cash generation speed.  Of course, the 'solution' is that I should go craft or harvest or farm for loot.  But to me, at least, it just seems unnatural to have to do these timesinks in order to equip yourself.  In a perfectly balanced game, you'd earn cash and xp at a commensurate rate so you could always afford to buy "standard" gear for your tier. I -really- wish I could lock my level....
__________________
54+ Ranger
28+ Berserker, 28+ Troubador, 26+ Fury, 25+ Templar, 25+ Bruiser, 22+ Inquisitor
21+ Dirge, 20+ Paladin, 15+ Conjuror, 14+ Assassin, 14+ Defiler, 13+ Shadowknight
and a few others

90 Provisioner, 41+ Woodworker, 34+ Carpenter
41+ Tailor, 30+ Armorer, 29+ Weaponsmith
70+ Jeweler, 51+ Alchemist, 29+ Sage

Living and dying on OASIS since 11/09/04
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