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Old 05-21-2010, 04:21 PM   #1
Lethe5683

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-Kerra/Sarnak/Arasai/Fae: 50% increase to IN COMBAT run speed for 30 seconds; 5 min recast - This is extremely overpowered in PvP; change it to out of combat run speed only.

-Safefall skill / Feather fall / Falling Damage Reduction– Very useful, especially in PvP and solo. Safefall Skill: Iksar, Kerra Feather Fall: Arasai, Dark Elf, Erudite, Fae, High Elf. Damage Reduction: Barbarian, Dwarf, Froglok, Iksar, Ogre, Sarnak, Troll Neither: Gnome, Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, Wood Elf. Solution: Up the damage reduction to 50% to make it more comparable to the rest.  Give Safefall skill to Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, and Wood Elf (makes sense for these races to have safe fall).  Give gnomes Featherfall (clockwork illusion or something).

-In zone teleport – A useful effect not obtainable by any other normal means.

-Track – A useful, normally class specific ability.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:38 PM   #2
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You're operating under the assumption that the entire game is built with PvP in mind.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:44 PM   #3
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

You're operating under the assumption that the entire game is built with PvP in mind.

No I'm not, I play on a PvE server.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:45 PM   #4
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lol.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:50 PM   #5
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Lethe5683 wrote:

Self explanatory, the racial traits for some races are overpowered while others get traits that are not good for anything whatsoever.  Main points of Issue:

-Kerra/Sarnak/Arasai/Fae: 50% increase to IN COMBAT run speed for 30 seconds; 5 min recast - This is extremely overpowered in PvP; change it to out of combat run speed only.  Sure, I can agree with this.

-Safefall skill / Feather fall / Falling Damage Reduction– Very useful, especially in PvP and solo. Safefall Skill: Iksar, Kerra Feather Fall: Arasai, Dark Elf, Erudite, Fae, High Elf. Damage Reduction: Barbarian, Dwarf, Froglok, Iksar, Ogre, Sarnak, Troll  I think Kerra has this too tbh Neither: Gnome, Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, Wood Elf. Solution: Up the damage reduction to 50% to make it more comparable to the rest.  Give Safefall skill to Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, and Wood Elf (makes sense for these races to have safe fall).  Give gnomes Featherfall (clockwork illusion or something).

Why in the world would Humans get safe fall???  Do YOU have safe fall????  I can see Ratonga and Wood Elf getting safefall, but not HE, Halfling or Human.  The gnomish featherfall makes sense too I suppose.

-In zone teleport – This ability should be removed.  The recast on it is immense, not a big issue.

-Track – This ability should be removed.  Wow.  All my toons are Kerra and I would seriously get upset if it was taken away.  Look at it from a Lore standpoint, it makes sense.  BUT for gaming purposes, and since I flame people who aren't realistic about things, I guess I would agree it is way too good for a Racial trait.  There I said it.  And I hate you for making me say it.  SMILEY

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:52 PM   #6
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Coming from a PvE point of view I would say that tracking is the most lopsided racial/class ability because it is ridiculously useful and it cannot be duplicated in any way. Waterbreathing can be self casted with an item or a totem. Feather fall can be had with a cloak. Glide can be had from boots. But to have tracking you have to choose a race or a class that has it or you will never get it. The game needs a 15 min tracking totem. The natural tracking of some would still be very valueable just not exclusive.

The last thing I want to see however is more changes to the game to accomodate PvP. Some people are not at all interested in PvP. The strenght of this game is not PvP. One of the reason I left the OTHER GAME was to get away from the constant tweaking for PvP BS.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:54 PM   #7
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They have honestly nerfed racial traits 2x already. Next we will be crying how monks and bards have AA's to increase thier in combat run speed and how overpowered that is.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:58 PM   #8
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Ocello wrote:

-Track – This ability should be removed.  Wow.  All my toons are Kerra and I would seriously get upset if it was taken away.  Look at it from a Lore standpoint, it makes sense.  BUT for gaming purposes, and since I flame people who aren't realistic about things, I guess I would agree it is way too good for a Racial trait.  There I said it.  And I hate you for making me say it. 

It is too good, but I would hate to see it go from the game just to accomodate PvP. Add a tracking totem and everyone would have an option to even the field.

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Old 05-21-2010, 04:59 PM   #9
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Ocello wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Self explanatory, the racial traits for some races are overpowered while others get traits that are not good for anything whatsoever.  Main points of Issue:

-Kerra/Sarnak/Arasai/Fae: 50% increase to IN COMBAT run speed for 30 seconds; 5 min recast - This is extremely overpowered in PvP; change it to out of combat run speed only.  Sure, I can agree with this.

-Safefall skill / Feather fall / Falling Damage Reduction– Very useful, especially in PvP and solo. Safefall Skill: Iksar, Kerra Feather Fall: Arasai, Dark Elf, Erudite, Fae, High Elf. Damage Reduction: Barbarian, Dwarf, Froglok, Iksar, Ogre, Sarnak, Troll  I think Kerra has this too tbh Neither: Gnome, Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, Wood Elf. Solution: Up the damage reduction to 50% to make it more comparable to the rest.  Give Safefall skill to Half Elf, Halfling, Human, Ratonga, and Wood Elf (makes sense for these races to have safe fall).  Give gnomes Featherfall (clockwork illusion or something).

Why in the world would Humans get safe fall???  Do YOU have safe fall????  I can see Ratonga and Wood Elf getting safefall, but not HE, Halfling or Human.  The gnomish featherfall makes sense too I suppose.

==Safe fall, not feather fall.  It does make too much sense but the main reason I choose that is because it makes more sense for Humans to have safefall than damage reduction or featherfall.

-In zone teleport – This ability should be removed.  The recast on it is immense, not a big issue.

==Immense as in, how long exactly?

-Track – This ability should be removed.  Wow.  All my toons are Kerra and I would seriously get upset if it was taken away.  Look at it from a Lore standpoint, it makes sense.  BUT for gaming purposes, and since I flame people who aren't realistic about things, I guess I would agree it is way too good for a Racial trait.  There I said it.  And I hate you for making me say it. 

==This one isn't really that big a deal, the first two are the only ones I really care about.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:00 PM   #10
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Actually, certain classes get tracking (ones that make sense to have such a skill). Scouts, for instance.

How would one track with a totem?

PS: Immense as in 12 hour recast on teleport.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:01 PM   #11
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VikingGamer wrote:

Ocello wrote:

-Track – This ability should be removed.  Wow.  All my toons are Kerra and I would seriously get upset if it was taken away.  Look at it from a Lore standpoint, it makes sense.  BUT for gaming purposes, and since I flame people who aren't realistic about things, I guess I would agree it is way too good for a Racial trait.  There I said it.  And I hate you for making me say it. 

It is too good, but I would hate to see it go from the game just to accomodate PvP. Add a tracking totem and everyone would have an option to even the field.

Not for PvP, track is a defining scout ability and giving it out as a free racial trait is rather unfair.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:02 PM   #12
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Racial abilities will never be balanced.  Period.  Unless you want everyone to have the same traits or allow any race to pick traits of their choice from the same pool, then balance just isn't going to happen.  Every time SOE goes to balance them again, then a new race comes out on top.  That's how the cookie crumbles.

Now some games use their races as purely cosmetic choices that have no in-game implications.  EQ2 isn't one of those games, but that sounds like what you're asking for.  As I understand it, you want statless races who can equally select from a massive pool of abilities to custom tailor with characters with the abilities that the player finds valueable.

This system could work and be interesting, but it's not EQ2.  Apples to oranges really.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:02 PM   #13
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VikingGamer wrote:

Coming from a PvE point of view I would say that tracking is the most lopsided racial/class ability because it is ridiculously useful and it cannot be duplicated in any way. Waterbreathing can be self casted with an item or a totem. Feather fall can be had with a cloak. Glide can be had from boots. But to have tracking you have to choose a race or a class that has it or you will never get it. The game needs a 15 min tracking totem. The natural tracking of some would still be very valueable just not exclusive.

The last thing I want to see however is more changes to the game to accomodate PvP. Some people are not at all interested in PvP. The strenght of this game is not PvP. One of the reason I left the OTHER GAME was to get away from the constant tweaking for PvP BS.

All of the concerns are relevant to PvE as well.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:07 PM   #14
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You're really reaching for something to complain about if you're gonna say racial traits of all things are OP lol. Gimme a break...

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:07 PM   #15
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Racial abilities will never be balanced.  Period.  Unless you want everyone to have the same traits or allow any race to pick traits of their choice from the same pool, then balance just isn't going to happen.  Every time SOE goes to balance them again, then a new race comes out on top.  That's how the cookie crumbles.

==That is perfect balance you are talking about.  Just because perfect balance cannot be achieved doesn't mean that they can't be made at least relativly fair. (and at least make sense)

Now some games use their races as purely cosmetic choices that have no in-game implications.  EQ2 isn't one of those games, but that sounds like what you're asking for.  As I understand it, you want statless races who can equally select from a massive pool of abilities to custom tailor with characters with the abilities that the player finds valueable.

==Not really, although that would be far better than the current unbalanced and largly counterintuitive racial traits.  What I want is racial traits that both make sense and are resonably fair.

This system could work and be interesting, but it's not EQ2.  Apples to oranges really.

==I can't find the quote right now but it was stated by a dev that the intent of the racial trait revamp was to make races more balanced and have less of an affect on gameplay.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:09 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

You're really reaching for something to complain about if you're gonna say racial traits of all things are OP lol. Gimme a break...

No, they are unfair at best OP at worst.  Racial traits, unlike the majority of other problems with the game are something that would be very easy to fix.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:11 PM   #17
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

Actually, certain classes get tracking (ones that make sense to have such a skill). Scouts, for instance.

How would one track with a totem?

PS: Immense as in 12 hour recast on teleport.

Thats why I called it a Race/Class ability. Perfectly understandable for Scouts to have such an ablity. I hate scouts and will probably never play one. That means I either pick a race that has it or never have the option. I don't mind it being limited or even expensive. I just don't like that there is absolutely no option to duplicate something so useful especially since it is not gamebreaking, it is just really nice to have.

How? if you mean mechanics just do the same thing as the Gnomish Divining Rod only have it work creatures rather than harvestables.

If by "How?" you mean why a totem, it wouldn't need to be a totem it could be a tinker items, probably be better as a tinker item. I was just thinking of waterbreathing totems when I wrote this.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:12 PM   #18
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I don't see them as imbalanced in PvE, and don't care about PvP.  You want a race with track choose that one, etc.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:13 PM   #19
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I have to admit, it does seem like grasping for something to complain about.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:18 PM   #20
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Lethe5683 wrote:

VikingGamer wrote:

Ocello wrote:

-Track – This ability should be removed.  Wow.  All my toons are Kerra and I would seriously get upset if it was taken away.  Look at it from a Lore standpoint, it makes sense.  BUT for gaming purposes, and since I flame people who aren't realistic about things, I guess I would agree it is way too good for a Racial trait.  There I said it.  And I hate you for making me say it. 

It is too good, but I would hate to see it go from the game just to accomodate PvP. Add a tracking totem and everyone would have an option to even the field.

Not for PvP, track is a defining scout ability and giving it out as a free racial trait is rather unfair.

Ok, so that is why it should be taken from the races that have. So only scouts have it. Once again I think you will find no shortage of people, probably of those races getting shafted that will hate the idea of loosing something so useful just to make the PvP babies happy. Honestly, I would sooner see PvP removed from the game. I understand that some people love PvP and I understand that SOE has drank the Koolaid on that one. This game's strong point is not PvP however and probably never will be. I don't care if it is there as an option but it is not why I am here. I am playing this game for the PvE. If they want to rebrand it as a PvP centric game I will go looking somewhere else for entertainment.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:22 PM   #21
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

I don't see them as imbalanced in PvE, and don't care about PvP.  You want a race with track choose that one, etc.

I'm not going to pick a race I hate for a trait that I want.  Even if other races got something different but equally usefull that would be fine, but that is not the case.  No "Rob" is not usefull for ANYTHING unless you are 1c short of something you need to buy immediatly and there are grey humanoid mobs around.

[email protected] DLere wrote:

I have to admit, it does seem like grasping for something to complain about.

They might not matter to you but that doesn't mean they don't matter to someone else.  I know that there are much worse problems in the game that need to be fixed but those problems are not easy to fix, this on the other hand would take about 5 mins of dev time to fix it if they actually paid attention.

VikingGamer wrote:

Ok, so that is why it should be taken from the races that have. So only scouts have it. Once again I think you will find no shortage of people, probably of those races getting shafted that will hate the idea of loosing something so useful just to make the PvP babies happy. Honestly, I would sooner see PvP removed from the game. I understand that some people love PvP and I understand that SOE has drank the Koolaid on that one. This game's strong point is not PvP however and probably never will be. I don't care if it is there as an option but it is not why I am here. I am playing this game for the PvE. If they want to rebrand it as a PvP centric game I will go looking somewhere else for entertainment.

It has nothing to do with PvP, I would never use track in PvP.  Track is a usefull tool in PvE, you said so yourself, much too usefull to be a racial trait when other races get garbage.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:31 PM   #22
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It's not fair that preists get heals and I dont as a mage, I'm not gonna roll a priest just to get spells I want. At best it's imbalanced, at worst it's OP...

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:37 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

It's not fair that preists get heals and I dont as a mage, I'm not gonna roll a priest just to get spells I want. At best it's imbalanced, at worst it's OP...

Nice straw man arguement.

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:44 PM   #24
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I'm not sure why racial tracking is op in pvp?  Scouts are still required to track pvp targets as racial track doesn't track pvp, only pve targets. 

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Old 05-21-2010, 05:49 PM   #25
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Axiana wrote:

I'm not sure why racial tracking is op in pvp?  Scouts are still required to track pvp targets as racial track doesn't track pvp, only pve targets. 

I never said it was, I don't think anyone did?

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:04 PM   #26
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Lethe5683 wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

I don't see them as imbalanced in PvE, and don't care about PvP.  You want a race with track choose that one, etc.

I'm not going to pick a race I hate for a trait that I want.  Even if other races got something different but equally usefull that would be fine, but that is not the case.  No "Rob" is not usefull for ANYTHING unless you are 1c short of something you need to buy immediatly and there are grey humanoid mobs around.

But you aren't giving any 'real' reason why it should be removed other than 'you' think it is OP.  I see from a LORE standpoint that Kerra could have heightened senses and growing up in the jungle would give them natural ability to track.  

And so don't pick rob, my gnome gets a once per day full repair.  most of the time i forget he has it.  dark elf gets a tinker call which he already has call of the tinker.  fae fall and glide are awesome and make sense since they have wings.

sorry I don't see the problem.

EDIT: I will admit at first I thought track a little much to give a 'race', but I don't see any imbalance it created.

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:09 PM   #27
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Lethe5683 wrote:

Not for PvP, track is a defining scout ability and giving it out as a free racial trait is rather unfair.

Track is hardly a defining scout ability. It was an ability that only scouts had but nothing that made a scout a scout. As such I could care less that non scouts have it because lets be honest, tracking isn't as great as everyone is making it out to be. Yeah it's nice for finding wondering names/npcs fast but otherwise meh.

 

Lethe5683 wrote:

No, they are unfair at best OP at worst.

No their not. This logic states it's unfair that healers have heals and scouts don't. It's idiotic.

 

Lethe5683 wrote:

I'm not going to pick a race I hate for a trait that I want.

So this all boils down to you throwing a emo hissy fit over not getting what you want on the race you want to play. Instead of just saying you're crying about not getting what you want how you want it you make up a bunch of BS about things like Track being overpowered (lol) for certain races to have.

Lethe5683 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
It's not fair that preists get heals and I dont as a mage, I'm not gonna roll a priest just to get spells I want. At best it's imbalanced, at worst it's OP...
Nice straw man arguement.

 

It's not a straw man argument. That's exactly what you are doing.

 

[email protected] DLere wrote:

I have to admit, it does seem like grasping for something to complain about.

That's pretty much all he's doing, which is why most of us can't take him seriously. Oh and he does this every few months or so.

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:19 PM   #28
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

CoLD MeTaL wrote:

I don't see them as imbalanced in PvE, and don't care about PvP.  You want a race with track choose that one, etc.

I'm not going to pick a race I hate for a trait that I want.  Even if other races got something different but equally usefull that would be fine, but that is not the case.  No "Rob" is not usefull for ANYTHING unless you are 1c short of something you need to buy immediatly and there are grey humanoid mobs around.

But you aren't giving any 'real' reason why it should be removed other than 'you' think it is OP.  I see from a LORE standpoint that Kerra could have heightened senses and growing up in the jungle would give them natural ability to track.  

==It is far better than most other racial traits and given to a race that even without it has some of the best racial traits.

And so don't pick rob, my gnome gets a once per day full repair.  most of the time i forget he has it.  dark elf gets a tinker call which he already has call of the tinker.  fae fall and glide are awesome and make sense since they have wings.

==What do you mean don't pick it?

sorry I don't see the problem.

==The problem is that race gives players an unfair advantage when playing the game and that It's not a pick and choose for which race has better traits for a certain class but rather that certain races are just plain better in almost everything.

EDIT: I will admit at first I thought track a little much to give a 'race', but I don't see any imbalance it created.

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:26 PM   #29
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Lethe5683 wrote:

==The problem is that race gives players an unfair advantage when playing the game and that It's not a pick and choose for which race has better traits for a certain class but rather that certain races are just plain better in almost everything.

I don't see how track 'gives an unfair advantage', it only makes it possibly quicker to find something.  You can be a kerra, wood elf or a scout of any race and get track.

I don't have any kerra or wood elves because i don't like those races, track isn't enough to make me think for a moment of changing to those races.

Its certainly not a problem for a kerra assassin, who would already get track.

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:28 PM   #30
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Serenade wrote:

Lethe5683 wrote:

Not for PvP, track is a defining scout ability and giving it out as a free racial trait is rather unfair.

Track is hardly a defining scout ability. It was an ability that only scouts had but nothing that made a scout a scout. As such I could care less that non scouts have it because lets be honest, tracking isn't as great as everyone is making it out to be. Yeah it's nice for finding wondering names/npcs fast but otherwise meh.

==It's almost as bad as giving out FD as a racial trait.  Racial traits were never meant to have that much impact on game play and if they are going to be made to have a significant affect then each race should get something equally useful but they don't.

 

Lethe5683 wrote:

No, they are unfair at best OP at worst.

No their not. This logic states it's unfair that healers have heals and scouts don't. It's idiotic.

==That has absolutly nothing to do with this not to mention scouts do have heals, making such a comparison is what's idiotic.

 

Lethe5683 wrote:

I'm not going to pick a race I hate for a trait that I want.

So this all boils down to you throwing a emo hissy fit over not getting what you want on the race you want to play. Instead of just saying you're crying about not getting what you want how you want it you make up a bunch of BS about things like Track being overpowered (lol) for certain races to have.

==It's not BS, the fact that the race I want to play has crap for traits is the reason that I am posting about this but is not the reason that I say the traits are OP.

Lethe5683 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:
It's not fair that preists get heals and I dont as a mage, I'm not gonna roll a priest just to get spells I want. At best it's imbalanced, at worst it's OP...
Nice straw man arguement.

 

It's not a straw man argument. That's exactly what you are doing.

==Try looking up the definition of a straw man arguement since you obviously have no idea what it means.  Here, let me help you.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

  1. Person A has position X.
  2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
  3. Person B attacks position Y.
  4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

 

[email protected] DLere wrote:

I have to admit, it does seem like grasping for something to complain about.

That's pretty much all he's doing, which is why most of us can't take him seriously. Oh and he does this every few months or so.

==It's not "grasping for something to complain about", it's giving my opinion of what is wrong with a certain aspect of the game and suggestions on how to improve it... otherwise know as feedback.  In case you haven't noticed that is one of the main purposes of the forums, although apprently you think the main purpose is to insult anyone you don't agree with.

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