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Old 06-05-2008, 09:37 PM   #1
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Please open up all classes for FP and Q players like our blubie counterparts.  There is just no real reason to adhere to this good and evil only concept. 
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:11 PM   #2
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[email protected] wrote:
Please open up all classes for FP and Q players like our blubie counterparts.  There is just no real reason to adhere to this good and evil only concept. 
Did I miss something while I was gone?  When did Blue servers get all classes open to them on both sides?
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Old 06-05-2008, 10:12 PM   #3
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They don't have access to them, but they don't have the grouping restriction.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:56 AM   #4
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Perhaps grouping restrictions would be a better choice - even still - I think you know exactly what I intentioned.  There is simply no real reason we cannot  be killing each other with the class of our choosing like the exiles.  And, no, this is not a bash the exiles thread - I care less if people wnat to exile.

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Old 06-06-2008, 02:49 AM   #5
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I disagree. If you don't want to be on a side that can't group with people of the "opposite" alignment then go exile.  It's part of the game and the roleplaying aspect (yes, I know a lot of people don't roleplay but it is an mmoRPG).
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Old 06-06-2008, 03:43 AM   #6
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goldfeesh641 wrote:
I disagree. If you don't want to be on a side that can't group with people of the "opposite" alignment then go exile.  It's part of the game and the roleplaying aspect (yes, I know a lot of people don't roleplay but it is an mmoRPG).
You do realize there are ogre paladins out there? There is your lovely roleplaying. Sony, please open all classes to all factions. That would be an epic move and help us all. The game is boring, we cant advance in raids and the balance is totally broken. This would solve all these problems, finally some new fresh air in eq2 pvp.
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Old 06-06-2008, 08:40 AM   #7
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goldfeesh641 wrote:
I disagree. If you don't want to be on a side that can't group with people of the "opposite" alignment then go exile.  It's part of the game and the roleplaying aspect (yes, I know a lot of people don't roleplay but it is an mmoRPG).
Hehe.. not to mention, the OP plays on Venekor which is an RP server. SMILEYFFA PvP is a horrible idea. And, that is basically what's being asked for. If you can group with anyone, you can also attack anyone. And, FFA PvP has historically never worked in an MMO. Just look at the disaster that is Ultima Online today.On top of it all, if this floodgate were open, we'd not only have to look out for the enemy when we leave a city. But, now we risk getting attacked by our own side as well just because somebody, maybe even in your own guild, just needed another Scout kill for his/her writ. SMILEYAnyways, there is already an option in game for opening all classes up. That is Exile. Don't demand that the core of the faction system be tossed out the window because you don't want to take advantage of an option that is already available to you.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:13 AM   #8
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[email protected] wrote:
goldfeesh641 wrote:
I disagree. If you don't want to be on a side that can't group with people of the "opposite" alignment then go exile.  It's part of the game and the roleplaying aspect (yes, I know a lot of people don't roleplay but it is an mmoRPG).
Hehe.. not to mention, the OP plays on Venekor which is an RP server. SMILEY<img src=" />FFA PvP is a horrible idea. And, that is basically what's being asked for. If you can group with anyone, you can also attack anyone. And, FFA PvP has historically never worked in an MMO. Just look at the disaster that is Ultima Online today.On top of it all, if this floodgate were open, we'd not only have to look out for the enemy when we leave a city. But, now we risk getting attacked by our own side as well just because somebody, maybe even in your own guild, just needed another Scout kill for his/her writ. SMILEY<img src=" />Anyways, there is already an option in game for opening all classes up. That is Exile. Don't demand that the core of the faction system be tossed out the window because you don't want to take advantage of an option that is already available to you.
It would help if you would read other posts more carefully. Noone asked for open pvp. We asked to open all classes for all factions. That means the way faction works stays, but we could welcome templar, illusionist and swashbucklers in freeport. Qeynos allready has ogre and dark elf paladins... This isnt about roleplaying, this is about the future of eq2. Raiding VP in a city is simply not possible atm.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:38 AM   #9
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Hummelchen wrote:
It would help if you would read other posts more carefully. Noone asked for open pvp. We asked to open all classes for all factions. That means the way faction works stays, but we could welcome templar, illusionist and swashbucklers in freeport. Qeynos allready has ogre and dark elf paladins... This isnt about roleplaying, this is about the future of eq2. Raiding VP in a city is simply not possible atm.
Ok.. so this is about being able to select a class that is currently not available to evil races during character creation? If so, how is that an immediate fix to the problem? I realize that some people are able to level a toon to 80 in just a matter of a couple of months. But, most, even with some serious effort might not be able to do that for a year or two. Especially if time constraints are an issue.Please let me know if I'm still not understanding what you are asking for.
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Old 06-06-2008, 09:51 AM   #10
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OH EM GEE. Not this again.SMILEY

Ogre Paladins? Fine, they'll walk around the city with the guards screaming "For the Glory of Qeynos," and the NPCs talk crap to them. Of course people don't like them, but you can't tell an ogre to lose 400 lbs, get pointy ears and paint his skin. RACE has nothing to do with culture. Give a Chinese baby to a Nigerian and the Chinese baby will BE a Nigerian in terms of culture.

High Elf Shadowknights? Part of the CULTURE of Qeynos is having good aligned classes. The War of the Plague was probably focused more on the disease binring CLASSES than the races using them. The all-time good guys (High Elves) Starting out on the Isle to go to Qeynos without question....yet he's a Shadowknight? If the Lore has been thrown away to you guys already, why throw away more? Yes, let's be destructive to construct the deconstructed.SMILEY

Now, I'm all for opening the restrictins to: Rogues, Predators, and Clerics. I didn't know Qeynos didn't have Assassins, and I certainly didn't know being an Inquisitive Pope made you evil.

But if we're going to ALL classes, to ALL factions...then I'd call for a whole revamp of classes. No point in having Good and Evil working together, just make a Hybrid of the two. EQ2 has so many classes solely for the reason of Faction. Yet here you guys are, wanting to destroy the game at its base...Factions, and Classes, and making it OK for good/evil Races to obtain the opposite factioned class without Betrayal.

Some people, make no sense in what they're asking for.

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Old 06-06-2008, 09:52 AM   #11
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no.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:02 AM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Some people, make no sense in what they're asking for.

I think I finally got the gist of what they're asking for. And, I agree.. while the folks asking for this here might not care about lore or RP, much of the community still does.I also do realize and respect that some people play this game like a console game with no thought for the lore of the game or the politics or factions. But, you must keep in mind that the other half of the community does care.So, I wouldn't say that what they're asking for doesn't make sense.. Instead, I'd say that what they're asking for will have an impact on the lore and RP of EQ2. And, this is something that they either hadn't considered.. or just don't care about. If the latter, then that is very self-serving and hardly any respect for the other members of the PvP community who are not interested in the play style which this will benefit. Basically T7 & T8 raiding.Finally, if classes were opened up to both cities. Then I suggest this be something implemented exclusively on Nagafen. Venekor is still labeled a Role Playing server despite the complete disregard for that label that many people on Venekor have for it. And, opening up all the classes will indeed effect Role Play to some extent.On the other hand, I certainly can see the appeal from a non-raiding aspect. I definitely would have chosen a Swashy instead of a brigand for my main. And, I only chose an Assassin because it was as close as I could get to a Ranger on my secondary toon.That secondary toon btw, Enlocke.. has managed to evade you each and everytime in EL. And, will continue to do so till you stop conning yellow to her at exactly the same level. SMILEY
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:27 AM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

Some people, make no sense in what they're asking for.

That secondary toon btw, Enlocke.. has managed to evade you each and everytime in EL. And, will continue to do so till you stop conning yellow to her at exactly the same level. SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />

GASP, I've been seen.....Now it's time to figure out who you are.

Les see now...I think I know if I had a little Rivervale chase with you. I may have also caught you a few times in Nektulos while you were trying to atack Glaban? Nooo, that can't be you. But now, I must keep my eyes peeled.

Last time I was in EL PvPing was with Fluffypaws...Freeps form level 33-77 were ganking us. I wouldn't expect you to have been there either. I think tons of people probably hate Glaban and I by now tbh...so it might be impossible for me to figure out who you are.

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Old 06-06-2008, 10:30 AM   #14
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[email protected] wrote:

This isnt about roleplaying, this is about the future of eq2. Raiding VP in a city is simply not possible atm.

Then the future of eq2 is safe, freeport based guilds have cleared all of VP on more then one occassion, there's a difference between possibility and dedication and skill to acheive something
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:38 AM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:
Hummelchen wrote:
It would help if you would read other posts more carefully. Noone asked for open pvp. We asked to open all classes for all factions. That means the way faction works stays, but we could welcome templar, illusionist and swashbucklers in freeport. Qeynos allready has ogre and dark elf paladins... This isnt about roleplaying, this is about the future of eq2. Raiding VP in a city is simply not possible atm.
Ok.. so this is about being able to select a class that is currently not available to evil races during character creation? If so, how is that an immediate fix to the problem? I realize that some people are able to level a toon to 80 in just a matter of a couple of months. But, most, even with some serious effort might not be able to do that for a year or two. Especially if time constraints are an issue.Please let me know if I'm still not understanding what you are asking for.
Its called betraying, people could betray over to the opposide class and stay in their evil city.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:45 AM   #16
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Hummelchen wrote:
Its called betraying, people could betray over to the opposide class and stay in their evil city.
Fair enough then. But, if they betray, how could they stay in their evil city? If you betray to Qeynos, you are KOS in Freeport and vice versa. I am still not getting it. I have no interest in watching somebody who betrayed to Qeynos so they could play a Paladin stand in front of me at the Broker in Neriak without being attackable. That absolutely destroys the RP in the game.Either I accidentally made decaffeinated coffee this morning or you are just not giving me enough details on how this would work without ruining the lore and RP that are already an integral part of the game.
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:47 AM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

GASP, I've been seen.....Now it's time to figure out who you are.

Bah.. I keep no secrets. SMILEYMy T4 assassin is "Fromage". She's still hasn't upgraded all her jewelry after dinging 32 nor have I had a chance to adorn all her equipment so that's probably why you're still conning yellow to me. A few more trinkets and I'm sure we'll "shake hands" in game eventually. SMILEY
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Old 06-06-2008, 10:49 AM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:
Hummelchen wrote:
Its called betraying, people could betray over to the opposide class and stay in their evil city.
Fair enough then. But, if they betray, how could they stay in their evil city? If you betray to Qeynos, you are KOS in Freeport and vice versa. I am still not getting it. I have no interest in watching somebody who betrayed to Qeynos so they could play a Paladin stand in front of me at the Broker in Neriak without being attackable. That absolutely destroys the RP in the game.Either I accidentally made decaffeinated coffee this morning or you are just not giving me enough details on how this would work without ruining the lore and RP that are already an integral part of the game.
I see, but if a wood elf shadowknight is standing next to you, thats ok. Spyder, lvl 55, not even 100 pvp kills and arround 70 pvp deaths.This is T8 talk. This is about T8 pvp and about T8 raiding. Life in your tiers arent tough.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:08 AM   #19
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[email protected] wrote:
Hummelchen wrote:
Its called betraying, people could betray over to the opposide class and stay in their evil city.
Fair enough then. But, if they betray, how could they stay in their evil city? If you betray to Qeynos, you are KOS in Freeport and vice versa. I am still not getting it. I have no interest in watching somebody who betrayed to Qeynos so they could play a Paladin stand in front of me at the Broker in Neriak without being attackable. That absolutely destroys the RP in the game.Either I accidentally made decaffeinated coffee this morning or you are just not giving me enough details on how this would work without ruining the lore and RP that are already an integral part of the game.
A paladin can walk up to the broker in neriak and /moon you and not be attackable on 87% of the servers in this game with no dev change whatsoever.  Explain to me how this breaks the RP.
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:21 AM   #20
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Beandip, a Freeport guild running around with the gear they were only able to get while in exile is not the same as a faction guild attempting to do the same.  Please don't try to make it look like something it's not.

Now, on the subject of roleplaying on the PvP servers ... really.  Guys.  I don't know about on Venekor, but on Nagafen, if you want to roleplay, fine.  Don't group up with certain people.  Or stay in the cities.  But I believe I can safely say that any and all roleplaying aspect disappears once you take that portal or step on that boat to Kunark.  Exile alone negates roleplaying.  Or, on a different tack ... it exemplifies roleplaying.  A Paladin and a Shadowknight uniting to fight a dragon that threatens the existence of both their cities?  Sure, and for simple reasons that are intrinsically tied to their individual classes.  The Paladin, being a champion for Good, would want to try to save as many innocents as possible.  Even the most delusional Paladin, while standing next to a Troll Templar, would have to admit that even the most evil can be turned to good, and would have to offer the benefit of the doubt as to whether they all deserved to be put to the sword or given the chance to change their evil ways.  A Shadowknight could simply pull a Machiavelli and justify grouping with a Paladin as using an available tool as a means to an end.  Nobody's asking for them to sit down to tea and discuss politics.  The options are there.  And the implementation is there.  It's even easier to do, if you think about it, now that Guild Housing is looming in the future.  If they could implement exiles as a third option, surely they could come up with a compromise to allow for faction based renegades.  Or missionaries, if you will.

The solution to this for roleplayers?  Don't allow them in your guild.  Don't be selfish about it.  You could even roleplay it up by turning your noses up at them.  The image of the Royal Guard executing a Necromancer passing through town simply for being a Necro?  One would hope that the Queen is more tolerant than that, otherwise she's no worse than Lucan.  And the Freeport Militia running a Templar through just because they don't care for his choice in deities?  If Lucan has a use for that Templar, you'd think fear alone would keep them from getting on his [Removed for Content] list.  How's that for justification?  If you don't like it, all you have to do is not allow it in your guild, and you can keep your little part of Qeynos pure, and look down on those that associate with riff-raff.  Everybody wins.  Even the exiles, because they would have the option to migrate en masse to a faction, and get the benefits of city life and exile raiding. 

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Old 06-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #21
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That thread opened my eyes on one major issue: THERE IS A MAJOR BUG ON PVE SERVERS. On PVE servers, due to a few missing lines of codes, some exploiters, who obviously have no morality, are using the 24 classes daily to clean PVE content, instead of sticking to their faction classes. That's an obvious exploit of a bug in the system on PVE servers, ruining the RP, ignoring the lore of the game, and making the PVE content needlessly trivial. Devs, we all know that PVP servers are your priority, and this bug on PVE servers is only due to a lack of attention for those servers, but please fix the PVE servers as soon as possible. Save the lore and RP from the PVE exploiters !!!
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Old 06-06-2008, 11:59 AM   #22
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Maybe you all haven't realized...but the Developers are basing this whole game around what RPers enjoy. While Roleplayers may be a minority on EQ2, Roleplaying is happening everyday between everybody.

SoE won't change that. It's the Lore from EQ1, it's what EQ2 is based off of, it's what the devs care about.

Deal with it.

And obviously you guys dind't read what I said about the fat losing Ogre and the Chinese Nigerian. SMILEY

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Old 06-06-2008, 12:05 PM   #23
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Just Exile. Problem solved.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #24
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Killque wrote:
Just Exile. Problem solved.
Sure, if i get to keep my pvp items.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:18 PM   #25
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Read it.  I just disagree with it.  That's the wonderful thing about communication in an open society. SMILEY  To be completely blunt, and selfish, about the entire subject, I'd be happy if they did it just for Nagafen and left Venekor alone.  You're labelled as a "role playing" server.  Nagafen is not.  People just want to do their own thing.  You think that the exiles, which are a little more numerous every day, did so for the lore?  Or to role play?  Look at every PvE raiding guild on the blue servers ... ohmygodwhatevershallwedothey'reraiding?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!  With all classes?  Against the lore?  The lore which has been changed by the devs in the past?  Blashpemy!!!!  If they did it just for Nagafen, I'd wager there would be a lot of Venekor players suddenly willing to cough up $50 to move one high level toon over as a moneymaker for new toons.  Oooooh, there's a carrot to dangle in front of the coders ... transfers = cash ... and then everybody's happy.  We get what we want, you get non-roleplayers off your server, and then it'll just boil down to guild versus guild bickering, like on all the other servers, and the exile-hate from factions would dissipate. 

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Old 06-06-2008, 12:21 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

Read it.  I just disagree with it.  That's the wonderful thing about communication in an open society. SMILEY<img src=" />  To be completely blunt, and selfish, about the entire subject, I'd be happy if they did it just for Nagafen and left Venekor alone.  You're labelled as a "role playing" server.  Nagafen is not.  People just want to do their own thing.  You think that the exiles, which are a little more numerous every day, did so for the lore?  Or to role play?  Look at every PvE raiding guild on the blue servers ... ohmygodwhatevershallwedothey'reraiding?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!  With all classes?  Against the lore?  The lore which has been changed by the devs in the past?  Blashpemy!!!!  If they did it just for Nagafen, I'd wager there would be a lot of Venekor players suddenly willing to cough up $50 to move one high level toon over as a moneymaker for new toons.  Oooooh, there's a carrot to dangle in front of the coders ... transfers = cash ... and then everybody's happy.  We get what we want, you get non-roleplayers off your server, and then it'll just boil down to guild versus guild bickering, like on all the other servers, and the exile-hate from factions would dissipate. 

agree, open the class barrier for nagafen and let us move to the server = all happy.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:24 PM   #27
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[email protected] wrote:

Read it.  I just disagree with it.  That's the wonderful thing about communication in an open society. SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15">  To be completely blunt, and selfish, about the entire subject, I'd be happy if they did it just for Nagafen and left Venekor alone.  You're labelled as a "role playing" server.  Nagafen is not.  People just want to do their own thing.  You think that the exiles, which are a little more numerous every day, did so for the lore?  Or to role play?  Look at every PvE raiding guild on the blue servers ... ohmygodwhatevershallwedothey'reraiding?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!  With all classes?  Against the lore?  The lore which has been changed by the devs in the past?  Blashpemy!!!!  If they did it just for Nagafen, I'd wager there would be a lot of Venekor players suddenly willing to cough up $50 to move one high level toon over as a moneymaker for new toons.  Oooooh, there's a carrot to dangle in front of the coders ... transfers = cash ... and then everybody's happy.  We get what we want, you get non-roleplayers off your server, and then it'll just boil down to guild versus guild bickering, like on all the other servers, and the exile-hate from factions would dissipate. 

For the record, I'm not a RPer (I had PvPer before). SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" /> I just enjoy th eLore of the game and how it's enacted into PvP.

Nagafen peeps...always assuming stuff. You'r eon SE so you must use it. You're on Venekor so you MUST RP.

It's ok to ask, nobody is gonna bite your head off for being curious.

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Old 06-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #28
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Sorry, I made an honest mistake.  You're on Vox.  I'd mixed you up with the others, my apologies.  That doesn't change the fact that there's pretty much no roleplaying on Nagafen.  In fact, the extent of roleplaying that I have encountered from former Venekor players would be the use of "Ye" in place of you.  So ... my suggestion still stands as a viable alternative.  A damned good one, I think, but I'm biased. SMILEY

And for the record, it doesn't matter to me whether you're on an SE server and buying items or not.  It's kind of a moot point since the introduction of that damned CCG anyway.  I could go out and plunk down $300 for cards and then sell them for plat ingame; that's perfectly legit according to SOE.  They even encourage it.  I simply choose not to.

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Old 06-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #29
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[email protected] wrote:
[email protected] wrote:

Read it.  I just disagree with it.  That's the wonderful thing about communication in an open society. SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15">  To be completely blunt, and selfish, about the entire subject, I'd be happy if they did it just for Nagafen and left Venekor alone.  You're labelled as a "role playing" server.  Nagafen is not.  People just want to do their own thing.  You think that the exiles, which are a little more numerous every day, did so for the lore?  Or to role play?  Look at every PvE raiding guild on the blue servers ... ohmygodwhatevershallwedothey'reraiding?!?!?!?!?!?! ?!  With all classes?  Against the lore?  The lore which has been changed by the devs in the past?  Blashpemy!!!!  If they did it just for Nagafen, I'd wager there would be a lot of Venekor players suddenly willing to cough up $50 to move one high level toon over as a moneymaker for new toons.  Oooooh, there's a carrot to dangle in front of the coders ... transfers = cash ... and then everybody's happy.  We get what we want, you get non-roleplayers off your server, and then it'll just boil down to guild versus guild bickering, like on all the other servers, and the exile-hate from factions would dissipate. 

For the record, I'm not a RPer (I had PvPer before). SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" /> I just enjoy th eLore of the game and how it's enacted into PvP.

Nagafen peeps...always assuming stuff. You'r eon SE so you must use it. You're on Venekor so you MUST RP.

It's ok to ask, nobody is gonna bite your head off for being curious.

So another T3 Player( yes, i saw you 5 minuts ago standing in qeynos harbour watching us big boys play), who hasnt pvped T8, hasnt raided T8 and hasnt even seen T8, tells us how we should play this game. Thats awesome. Sony could just open the free transfers and all you little T1-5 pvpers can be happy pvping against noone. Enjoy your 100 kills and deaths.
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Old 06-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #30
Hummelch

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[email protected] wrote:

Sorry, I made an honest mistake.  You're on Vox.  I'd mixed you up with the others, my apologies.  That doesn't change the fact that there's pretty much no roleplaying on Nagafen.  In fact, the extent of roleplaying that I have encountered from former Venekor players would be the use of "Ye" in place of you.  So ... my suggestion still stands as a viable alternative.  A damned good one, I think, but I'm biased. SMILEY<img src=" />

And for the record, it doesn't matter to me whether you're on an SE server and buying items or not.  It's kind of a moot point since the introduction of that damned CCG anyway.  I could go out and plunk down $300 for cards and then sell them for plat ingame; that's perfectly legit according to SOE.  They even encourage it.  I simply choose not to.

He isnt on Vox, hes a lvl 35 Monk on Venekor.
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