Monk Feedback

[Ansom]

Before the feedback:

For my point, the tank (like any class), on solo-buff don't need to be "complete". Only in grp and raid arrangement a tank will be able to work on 100%.

• Tag Team: is a nice spell.. but is not visible in Maintained window.
• Serene Energy, like Winds of Prevention are... heavily underpowered. Why don't put on %hp (like all tank heal, self heal)? On the old day, when tank had only 80-90k hp.. They just work fine. Now are just a point waste. For example, a 20-30% value will not change the result on hard fight (will be smashed with 0.5s delay), but will be make the monk just a little bit..balanced again plate tank, for the mit change.
• Outward Calm. Same thing. Is heavily underpowered. Was a nice ward, and now (like all ward in game), is trash... With at least 50% hp ward, will be usable again.

uhm, other thing... uhm.. maybe tomorrow.

[Buffrat]

Tag Team isn't hard to read once you get used to it, but it would be nice if it appeared in the maintained window, sure.

The entirety of the Winds line is godly because all of the bonuses are pretty much always up whenever you get hit due to you dodging more than like 90% of the incoming attacks. Serene Energy isn't that great but whatever, monks are good as is.

Outward Calm will probably not be great due to hp scaling again, but I think the rest of monk is more than fine as is that it doesn't need to be looked at.

[Silzin]

The Monks largest weakness, the way I see it, is when the Monk does not out gear the content they are tanking… Or before they get fully raid geared, the Monk does not have the avoidance /Mit to survive they way under-geared Plate tanks do. To that ends I am not sure making Serene Energy and Outward Calm would help that, but it may.

I think removing the once a 15 sec on Meditive Mending may help (since we do not get hit that often anyway) this would also help the under-geared Monks more than fully geared since when geared the 30% threshold does not get met that much atm.

I would Love to be able to see Tag Team in the Maintained Window also.


(off topic) I wish Stone Skins would contribute the damage prevented to the person that the Stone Skin belonged to this would let them be tracked properly in ACT like any other heal.

[Darkon]

Monks are the most versatile durable tank in EQ2.. -_-

I say versatile because regardless of how hard a mob hits, 300 million or 500 billion, it doesn't matter if you don't get hit.

[Buffrat]

According to my new handy dandy mob stat checker ability, the 104 ^^^ heroics I found have 50% strikethrough, making monks even better than they already are (unless of course, old raid mobs also have 50% strikethrough, which we can't check because the zones are all locked..)

[Tombstone]

This is crazy. Monks are great now and its a fact. Silzin I heard from the guys in your guild that you have 96-97% avoidance in the third wing, and for the whole zone you almost dont get a single hit. Its true, I dont know how you can complain about the class which is now one of the best.

[Silzin]

Tombstone said: ↑

“This is crazy. Monks are great now and its a fact. Silzin I heard from the guys in your guild that you have 96-97% avoidance in the third wing, and for the whole zone you almost dont get a single hit. Its true, I dont know how you can complain about the class which is now one of the best.”

WOW reading fail.... and no you are wrong. i have never got into Wing 3 or tanks anything in there. the guild i am in is having a hard time getting 4 full group. But if you (and the others) did read what i wrote then you would see i am not saying Monks need anything that would give them a boost at the END GAME... but before that, before we get geared up... witch is something a lot of people around here would never understand.

[Ansom]

End Game raid are one thing, start a new expansion (with mit curve change) is an other thing.

I don't ask for a monk more toy in end game contest (i don't have a Crystal Ball.. because item/grp/raid are still closed). Only to fix the actual toy, for work in low game, like the ward, without change the result in end game raid or tank balance.

[Darkon]

...that's what I'm trying to convey. Gear is irrelevant if you don't get hit. Mitigation is irrelevant if you don't get hit. Health is irrelevant if you don't get hit.

Silzin I've raided with you friend. It's not an issue with the monk class.

A monk wearing full potent is as effective as a monk wearing full mystical. There's no difference except in how lazy and reckless you can be.

[Silzin]

Well Dark, I do not think I would call you a friend… with the way we seem to be at each other’s throats … maybe an acquaintance. You seem to be very much on the offense on any tank that is not SK, but you do want your old passion changed (whatever).

Back on topic, I really do not think Tsunami needs changing… maybe adding 20 sec’s to its overall reuse, not doubling its reuse. But I think the larger culprits to being able to string avoids/Stone Skins together would be Tag Team and Inner Focus teamed together give about 21 sec’s out of each Minute that we do not have to worry about attacks. Inner Focus would be much less useful if attacks were changed in raiding to be faster hitting attacks for a lower %. I.E. instead of hitting for 60% of HP every 6 sec’s hit for 10% of HP each Sec. This would be the same HP% over the same time but would not trigger our Stone Skins (By Design).

For some reason I do not want Tsunami nerfed into oblivion … it was the First Tank Avoid ability in the game. I know the game has changed a lot since lvl 55, but… this is the class defining ability to the monk… like Amends is to the Pally.

Adding 20-30 sec’s to the reuse of Bob and Weave may also help reduce our time Immune to attacks. Be very careful with this type of stuff since this (the 100% avoids) is the bread and butter of a Monks survivability.

I also think that the Waveform and all following Right Side Prestige abilities need working over… but Double Conversion is very nice and works fine atm… so this does not need addressing this Beta.

I understand the talk about Monks do not take hits unless we want to, but it’s a very hard timing structure to get down that most monks I have seen do not do in all Heroic Content when they are gearing up. Also most Monks should not need to cycle 100% saves all of the time just to tank content that they do not over gear. This is why I think some of the other abilities talked about should be adjusted: Meditive Mending, Serene Energy, Outward Calm and all 10 AA associated. Changes to these abilities would not affect the End Game Raiding Monk, but would help the under-geared grouping and low end raiding monks… making the monk class more user friendly, and maybe more fun to play in groups.

Also can we get the Minimum range on Mantis Star removed, since we are a tank and sustaining this De-buff on a named that we are tanking is VERY Hard.

Also if Combat Mastery needs to be reworked so that it is not quite so powerful then I am not against that. I mean I love the ability the way it is… and so does the Dirge and Assassin in raid, but if it needs to be reworked so that we can get more useful group buffs, Offensive functionality when we need to, and all… I think it would be better all around for the game.

[Genghes]

Nothing wrong with mastery, working as intended

[Ansom]

Monk don't need more temp cycle. For obtain a full circle, we just need to talk with the grp (dirge, heal, conj.. ecc ecc).

A monk can tank on dps gear without problem.
Mastery is nasty... if use correctly give a very nice dps bust.

[Serik]

Silzin said: ↑

“Back on topic, I really do not think Tsunami needs changing… maybe adding 20 sec’s to its overall reuse, not doubling its reuse. But I think the larger culprits to being able to string avoids/Stone Skins together would be Tag Team and Inner Focus teamed together give about 21 sec’s out of each Minute that we do not have to worry about attacks. Inner Focus would be much less useful if attacks were changed in raiding to be faster hitting attacks for a lower %. I.E. instead of hitting for 60% of HP every 6 sec’s hit for 10% of HP each Sec. This would be the same HP% over the same time but would not trigger our Stone Skins (By Design).
...

Adding 20-30 sec’s to the reuse of Bob and Weave may also help reduce our time Immune to attacks. Be very careful with this type of stuff since this (the 100% avoids) is the bread and butter of a Monks survivability.
...

I understand the talk about Monks do not take hits unless we want to, but it’s a very hard timing structure to get down that most monks I have seen do not do in all Heroic Content when they are gearing up. Also most Monks should not need to cycle 100% saves all of the time just to tank content that they do not over gear. This is why I think some of the other abilities talked about should be adjusted: Meditive Mending, Serene Energy, Outward Calm and all 10 AA associated. Changes to these abilities would not affect the End Game Raiding Monk, but would help the under-geared grouping and low end raiding monks… making the monk class more user friendly, and maybe more fun to play in groups.

...

Also if Combat Mastery needs to be reworked so that it is not quite so powerful then I am not against that. I mean I love the ability the way it is… and so does the Dirge and Assassin in raid, but if it needs to be reworked so that we can get more useful group buffs, Offensive functionality when we need to, and all… I think it would be better all around for the game.”

ITT: Monks asked to be nerfed. Really?

It's too early to judge tank balance until we're able to try out the new raids/heroics with the updated mit curve, since the focus is shifting from avoidance to mit vs. HP. It probably means more pulsing AEs of all kinds that just ignore avoidance altogether.

[Silzin]

Serik said: ↑

“ITT: Monks asked to be nerfed. Really?

It's too early to judge tank balance until we're able to try out the new raids/heroics with the updated mit curve, since the focus is shifting from avoidance to mit vs. HP. It probably means more pulsing AEs of all kinds that just ignore avoidance altogether.”

I am not asking for a Nerf to Monk… just explaining why given the ToV system of name attacking why 2 abilities can cover us on attack for about 50% of the time each Minot. But if they change the way name attack then our abilities do not work as well against them. If the next xpac sees DoV and ToV type raiding again then by just increasing the reuse of these 2 abilities by about 20 sec would make a large impact on us… but I do not think this is needed. A lot of people out here seem to think that monks need major nerfing and if it is going to happen then I would prefer it happen in a way that does not leave us crippled. If any nerfing does come in, we also need other abilities change to help compensate.


I also want to see how we fair against the new Mit curve, new itemization and raid named. These 3 factors will make a huge balancing factor. The Dev’s “Should Not” balance the game with itemization but we know that they do.

[Darkon]

Mit curve wont affect crusader V brawler balance unless itemization is severely skewed in favor of one or another. Warriors have relevant mit temps so sure, on that I can agree. If there's unavoidable damage then monks might not be unkillable gods, but the tools a monk has to deal with said unavoidable damage are still superior to what a crusader has.

[Buffrat]

Combat Mastery is ridiculously overpowered but there's not enough of a player base left in this game to care to make brawlers a necessity in a group with a dps scout.

Mantis Star should have it's min range removed.

Monks in general are still probably going to be invincible gods, but I guess we'll see.

[ElectricPotato]

Buffrat used his "peeping tom" ability on a heroic boss, and it had 75 strike through... blam! Seeya Avoidnace!

[xkrisx]

ElectricPotato said: ↑

“Buffrat used his "peeping tom" ability on a heroic boss, and it had 75 strike through... blam! Seeya Avoidnace!”

All of Brawler Avoidance Temps have Strike Through Immunity soooo.. Hi Avoidance .. here to stay.

[ElectricPotato]

avoidance from gear.. block chance adorns... block chance on weapons... block chance on armor...

[xkrisx]

Yeah but the contested avoidance aspect wasnt being disputed. It was the ability to Rotate there temp buffs 100% of the time to prevent death. Thats why the statement was made that even a Monk in DPS gear could temp through just about anything

[ElectricPotato]

oh yeah, and a crusader or warrior would just need to use a shield swap in if it was a requirement for their temp (worse for crusaders, only 2 handers)

[Silzin]

I have played a Monk for a very long time and I love it. But I try my best to look at things from a standpoint of the betterment of the whole game stand point. It is not healthy to have any class to be an “Invincible God”. Since I know the monk the most I focus my changes and suggestion on that class. I just wanted Monks to be a more, well rounded class. I want to work on their weaknesses and bring the things that are “too good to be true” in line.

A lot of the speculation about survivability of Brawlers going in to the new Xpac is still going to be up in the air. Since only 3 of our abilities give us Strikethrough Immunity, and if they change the way named hit it will also hurt monks more than other tanks.


Also a lot of the avoidance from items is useless against Strikethrough.

[Kickya]

Quoted earlier.

Monks are the most versatile durable tank in EQ2.. -_-

I say versatile because regardless of how hard a mob hits, 300 million or 500 billion, it doesn't matter if you don't get hit.

--------------

Guess what happens when they do get hit ... FD - F = The Answer

do the math hehe

[Darkon]

No. They don't, because they have brawlers tenacity with a three trigger death prevent up when they might get hit.

[Ebofu]

Brawler's rotation depends upon their regular avoidance to maintain inner focus and Tenacity.

There should be a 40s window in Tenacity where that is all you have outside of PS/SG, and that is a long time to wait if you are getting hit via strikethrough. I suspect all mobs had 50% ST since our innate immunity was removed so monks should be gods regardless, but only time will tell.

Simple counter to monks is mobs with magical auto attack damage. Any rotation falls apart without inner focus

[Buffrat]

Ebofu said: ↑

“Simple counter to monks is mobs with magical auto attack damage. Any rotation falls apart without inner focus”

This. Pyrelord is a meanyface.

Granted, that just means we have to ask healers for death saves.

[Darkon]

Ebofu said: ↑

“Simple counter to monks is mobs with magical auto attack damage. Any rotation falls apart without inner focus”

Any mob with a magical auto attack wrecks any tank who doesn't have a channeler in group.

[Genghes]

Pyrelord is EM to tank

[Ebofu]

Darkon said: ↑

“Any mob with a magical auto attack wrecks any tank who doesn't have a channeler in group.”

Not every tank has physical restrictions on their saves. Berserkers and Monks mostly. I can't recall guardians having any conditions on their stoneskins other than health threshold. Crusaders actually have legionnaires become useful, and paladins more so.

I'm not saying magical auto attacks benefit tanks, but other tanks don't lose some of their tools in dealing with them.

[Buffrat]

Genghes said: ↑

“Pyrelord is EM to tank ”

Heard it here first, Bruisers are OP. Nerf Bruisers.