Chaos Descending: Fighter Feedback

Bulwark was meant to protect the group not the tank, I believe. I have seen alt tanks successfully use it. Yes, there are drains, drains usually come from dets not being cured fast enough. In the fire zone, I believe it is the elemental that needs to be cured/pot cured or it drains your power. I have an alt pally and I know I suck at this Bulwark thing but as the other tanks have pointed out, it depends on the player behind the toon. I think you need to be super aware of everything happening. Also triggers can be made for Bulwark now because there is a message. I don't think they will make it a buff

[Mathafern]

Personally I'm going to make an ACT trigger, and do the script, no matter how dull and annoying. But I think we'll see this changed about a month into the expansion. It's just too annoying to keep.

[Makya]

Last night fighter rune damage was nerfed 45%

So they've added a tedious button mashing mechanic to tanking and now they're taking away the only thing about the role that was even moderately entertaining, being able to DPS. Between these fighter changes and the crazy nonsense going on with healing we're going to be left with only DPS and no one to tank or heal. This just keeps getting worse, kinda sorry I preordered at this point.

Was it an intended adjustment?

[Makya]

Guess we'll see if it shows up in the patch notes later today...

Was it a flat 45% decrease to all dmg applied from rune factoring in mantis lesp+ tiers of abilities applied? Or just a baseline splat?

[Makya]

Same potency (60k) & abmod (1.2m) here's the two screenshots I used. New values are 55% of what they were a few days ago.

From 10/28


From this morning 10/30

Well that’s just dandy. Thnx for feedback. Definitely curious to see if this was intended.

Heres some suggestions to improve shadowknight's which i believe i feedback'd all of these at some point but incase anyone needs a TL;DR summary for easier viewing. These are just some ideas and changes i'd love to see not a must but would be helpful

• Death March: we could use a Death March II for 101-110 which would have buffed stats and would correct only giving a INT boost but instead give all primary stats a boost as INT isn't going to be much of a group buff with other classes not able to make use of INT.
• Innouruks Caress: needs a buff in damage atm its showing under 100k on tooltip damage really should be buffed to maybe 300-500k range to make it useful.
• Lucan's Pact : Could maybe use a small fevor boost maybe 12? just to help bring some damage back from the possible loss of those not using offensive stance due to bleedthru.
• Unholy Hunger: could use a trigger rate boost from 2.3 to 5 as it procs way too little per min to be much help in the damage department and would bring it inline with spells like grim harbringer.
• Chaos Cloud: this needs a massive buff in damage as it's suppose to be a AA upgrade over Grave Sacrament yet the damage is almost half of it buffing it by maybe 75%-100% would def bring this back as a upgrade.
• Unholy Strength: The group spell damage increase amt is only like 3-5% which is so little could definitely be more useful at 15% spell damage increase as group buff and more noticeable.
• Unholy Blessing: 5 triggers is way to low could definitely see way more use if it was bumped to 25 at the trigger rate now i cast it and its used up before it even finishes cooldown making it almost pointless to bother clicking with how often you have to reapply it.
• Siphon Strength: Change the INT buff part to maybe stamina or double the strength part as shadowknights gain nothing from INT anymore and haven't since the stat rehaul.
• Reapers Mist: Potency buff from it needs a bigger amount as it only gives 16% potency which would be more useful at 160% potency. The Reaping proc damage also could use a small boost of maybe 30%
• Reaver: Spell damage buff is kinda low bringing it from 5% to 10% would definitely be more visible in terms of helpfulness

With the big nerf to our dps, I just hope they can find a way to make tanking exciting.

Bulwark I dont believe is going to be that big thing. Possibly a nice overhaul to temps to make them function a tad better.

can we expect some bruiser changes coming soon ?

[Ingerimm]

You realize, however, that differences in potency affect the examine window, as does ability modifier, but changes in the critical bonus and fervor only become visible when damage to a target is directly generated.

My own tests, as far as the dps are concerned, show that our dps tends to increase as well as decrease through the whole changes.

Of course, one can only compare this in the same instances in the same encounter on beta and live.

The encounters in the new instances have different buff packages according to the new addon, so everyone does a little less damage than not just the tanks.

If you want to compare the damage go on the live server in the coliseum instances and then on beta in the same coliseum instance and then compare your dps.

In my case, the dps on beta in the old instances was always slightly higher than on the live server. But on the whole almost the same.

[Dolgrin]

Another nerf bat hitting monks. Rising Dragon can be skilled/itemized to 57% chance reset on live.
Same equipment on beta capped to 50%.

Intended?

[Rebelde]

Razpberry said: ↑

“Also triggers can be made for Bulwark now because there is a message. I don't think they will make it a buff”

Which message?

when mob looks for his most hated or something

Can you please take another look at the damage hits after Bulwark is required? The other day I was reliably taking 300M+ damage per hit from a mob with no way to stop that damage most times.

SKs have 2 one trigger stoneskins on a 1 minute+ recast. We can reduce incoming damage by 90% every 30s, but it only lasts for 1.5s and with no cast bar, there's no reliable way to time it so it overlaps the damage spike. Crusader's Faith is usable every minute, but it only reduces incoming damage by 25% and won't make much of a dent in these hits in terms of staying alive. Divine Aura only works on hits less than 50% Max HP, so that's out. Diamond Flesh lasts long enough, but the damage comes in so fast it's over before you can toggle it off for the DR and at 30%, falls into the Crusader's Faith issue of too little. Shadowknights Furor would work for one every couple minutes due to recast if all of them are melee based and not subject to some unavoidable mechanic. Blood Siphon is a 150M ward if every player in the group has 100M HP, but that's small potatos for 5 hits at 300M+. Blood Letter is a decent saving grace, but with how hard these hits are and the 5 minute recast, it's not reliable either.

Bit long winded, but I feel SK is poorly situated to be considered for anything beyond an emergency tank if this is the incoming damage we can expect going forward in the expansion.

Possibly spread the damage out over a longer period to allow time to cast one of our short duration saves, change the damage to %HP such as 25-50%, and add a cast bar for raids?

I'll second what priority is saying. If you want to make non-ward things viable we cant take hits for over our hit points so often.

Three of the tanks (pally,sk,zerker) are heal based , and none of those heals can do anything when your hit for over your Hp pool.

In beta raid I took a few hits for 800+mil. The only way I survived those hits was with a death prevent.

[duckster]

Perhaps they are moving away from tanks being self sufficient on managing spike dmg. However they probably should give other classes the tools to cast on tanks to assist with that. Although im not aware of any additional utility spells being added so far to do that .

duckster said: ↑

“Perhaps they are moving away from tanks being self sufficient on managing spike dmg. However they probably should give other classes the tools to cast on tanks to assist with that. Although im not aware of any additional utility spells being added so far to do that .”

TBH, it's the bleed through and lack of being able to stack wards, as much as that pains me to say that. Separately, they're manageable, combined they're a death sentence for certain tanks.

Speaking of bleedthrough, when will they look into and fix the monk class rune effect?(Outward Calm)
It still doesn't work as intended or description. It seems not working correctly yet.
I'v been still waiting but I'd rather not think about the rune of Assassin which took assassins a whole year to get fixed.

has anyone tried to check if the %based fighter heals were affected by the chaos debuff in heroics ?

bruiser (and certainly monk) def stance doesn't add the 600 STA bonus it should

[Makya]

Earar, I finally got some time to do some testing on this and it seems to be just a display bug.

The current STA text says for me that it provides 60.0 max HP per stamina which is double the base amount on live (which I'm guessing is from the 10/25 update notes that said "Players will now receive an increase to Hit Points as they level from 101 to 110"). If you are spec'd into the STA def stance bonus (brawler) and change into and out of def stance you'll see a difference of about 6 HP/STA just like you do on live.

[Makya]

Not sure if it was the patch last night or just a coincidence in the numbers but I've done some more testing and it's not a display bug.

Here's some numbers on Live and Beta for my monk (similar but not exactly same gear/adornments since I didn't want to completely unadorn my test gear):

Stamina: 69492 (Live) / 68186 (Beta)

Offensive stance (Live)
Max HP: 109,848,374 (2171.0% Max Health)
HP from STA: (69492 STA * 33.0 STA Bonus) = 2,293,236
Base HP: (109,848,374 / 22.710) - 2,293,236 = 2,543,768

Defensive stance (Live)
Max HP: 121,263,816 (2180.9% Max Health)
HP from STA: (69492 STA * 39.9 STA Bonus) = 2,772,730
Base HP: (121,263,816 / 22.809) - 2,772,730 = 2,543,759

Offensive stance (Beta)
Max HP: 132,184,621 (2057.2% Max Health)
HP from STA: (68186 STA * 60.0 STA Bonus) = 4,091,160
Base HP: (132,184,621 / 21.572) - 4,091,160 = 2,036,442

Defensive stance (Beta)
Max HP: 134,537,203 (2095.5% Max Health)
HP from STA: (68186 STA * 60.0 STA Bonus) = 4,091,160
Base HP: (134,537,203 / 21.955) - 4,091,160 = 2,036,701

The calculations are correct for the displayed values (Base HP is within rounding errors on Live and Beta between the stances).

The problem is that the STA Bonus is not being adjusted for Tranquil Constitution (300) in the Prestige tree nor for Adamantine Skin (600) in the Monk Prestige tree. It's always 60.0 when it should be 63.0 in offensive and 69.9 in defensive if it were to match the boosts you get on Live.

I looked into it and noticed that they silently removed the stamina bonus on the Brawler Prestige tree.(600)
Instead, they've added mere 30% MHP bonus to the Adamantine Skin.
But Tranquil Constitution remains as the same amount.(300)
So it should be 63.0 bonus at least.

And I also noticed that healing received was slightly decreased, going back to the basic amount before getting bumped.
As somebody has already said that the reset chance of Dragonfire was lowered, that includes damage reduction, too.
Fighters seem to have lost the 15% boost.

[Makya]

Checked again this morning and it seems to be back to functioning like it is on live. Stamina bonus is 63 in offensive and 69 in defensive. Note that if you are testing this yourself the tooltip is buggy when you hover over Stamina to see what the bonus is and change stances. Easiest way I've found to get it to update is to change out some gear sets to force it to recalc things.

I don't understand the logic in designing a fight that REQUIRES a tank..Would somebody be nice enough to explain the reasoning behind this type of game design.

The Bulwark thing should be a permanent buff. I have various short-duration temp buffs macroed to most of my combat arts right now, but if they insist, I guess I'll just macro Bulwark to a few CAs that get cast frequently, /sigh.