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Old 09-29-2011, 01:46 AM   #31
Onorem

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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Rick777 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

thesiren wrote:

I'm a 7-year vet.  Not everyone is, though, and I like newbies in my guilds and on the chats to be excited to hang around EQ2.

Sorry, just my two copper.  Maybe they could make a few difficult-to-obtain quested mounts go a bit faster or something, so as to appease the cranky vets, I don't know.  I understand that SOE probably just did the across-the-boards thing because, like usual, they're overworked and understaffed as it is, but still, it does have its benefits.

I'm working on 7 years myself.

I think they really should have a mount that is 25% faster that is level 90 and must be quested for. I really disagree with the term 'appease' here I would prefer to call it a reward, appeasing is what giving the newbies the fast mounts is, appeasing is removing any sense of danger travelling across overland zones, I mean really where does it end. I want people in the game too I want the game to be healthy but I also enjoyed the difficulty of the content as it was when I did it Nek forest is like disneyland now, just rainy and foggy.

Yes there are benefits to it, but it does mess with the core reward system that one poster mentioned, it makes the game more ho hum nothing to shoot for except further raid progression.

I'd be just happy with ANY mounts for the non SC crowd.  I'd LOVE to quest or kill for a mount, especially a flying mount.

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

I assume that "roughly" is meant to mean that it was nowhere near that number and you couldn't be bothered to look into it as you white knight for all things eq2x. What I see with an admittedly quick search comes up with nowhere near that number.

In any case...SOE decided to eliminate most of mount progression, so it's mostly down to appearance now. There's several quests for horses. There's a quest for leapers. There's a quest for gliders (but they 'violently inhale' so who cares?) There's a quest for flyers. Now that they've introduced the different types, maybe they could give people options outside of the cash shop for those that want options when it comes to appearance. (It's too late to hope that they'd actually reconsider the generic across the board changes.)

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Old 09-29-2011, 01:56 AM   #32
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

Sure were not any flying squirrels.

but on a positive note after the most pathetic attempt on HM Gunnr ever executed tonight after we got him down to 10% or so (after an uncountable # of deaths) we finally wiped. Next pull flawless lol, I was gonna blame it on the squirrel mounts that people had but I'll let it slide. Deadcrickets2 I know you are a F2P advocate and are active here and push out good stuff I can see the need that they needed to take the direction of SC and F2P otions even after the "Never" statement made about cash/micro transactions maybe the 'sell out' there had to be, they do not have to whizz all over the game lore with a lot of silly looking SC garb it could at least 'belong' in the game.

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Old 09-29-2011, 02:42 AM   #33
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Onorem wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

Rick777 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

thesiren wrote:

I'm a 7-year vet.  Not everyone is, though, and I like newbies in my guilds and on the chats to be excited to hang around EQ2.

Sorry, just my two copper.  Maybe they could make a few difficult-to-obtain quested mounts go a bit faster or something, so as to appease the cranky vets, I don't know.  I understand that SOE probably just did the across-the-boards thing because, like usual, they're overworked and understaffed as it is, but still, it does have its benefits.

I'm working on 7 years myself.

I think they really should have a mount that is 25% faster that is level 90 and must be quested for. I really disagree with the term 'appease' here I would prefer to call it a reward, appeasing is what giving the newbies the fast mounts is, appeasing is removing any sense of danger travelling across overland zones, I mean really where does it end. I want people in the game too I want the game to be healthy but I also enjoyed the difficulty of the content as it was when I did it Nek forest is like disneyland now, just rainy and foggy.

Yes there are benefits to it, but it does mess with the core reward system that one poster mentioned, it makes the game more ho hum nothing to shoot for except further raid progression.

I'd be just happy with ANY mounts for the non SC crowd.  I'd LOVE to quest or kill for a mount, especially a flying mount.

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

I assume that "roughly" is meant to mean that it was nowhere near that number and you couldn't be bothered to look into it as you white knight for all things eq2x. What I see with an admittedly quick search comes up with nowhere near that number.

In any case...SOE decided to eliminate most of mount progression, so it's mostly down to appearance now. There's several quests for horses. There's a quest for leapers. There's a quest for gliders (but they 'violently inhale' so who cares?) There's a quest for flyers. Now that they've introduced the different types, maybe they could give people options outside of the cash shop for those that want options when it comes to appearance. (It's too late to hope that they'd actually reconsider the generic across the board changes.)

Or you could look it up yourself.  Yes, I was off but not by much.  Folks are acting as if there were twenty or so mounts.  Guess what?  There was a lot more than that.

As for "white knight" you might want to see some of my posts on Extended.  Even Smokejumper will tell you I'm very blunt.  Siren can tell you this, Unos can tell you this, Elomort can tell you this, Amnerys can tell you this.  

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Old 09-29-2011, 02:52 AM   #34
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[email protected] wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

Sure were not any flying squirrels.

but on a positive note after the most pathetic attempt on HM Gunnr ever executed tonight after we got him down to 10% or so (after an uncountable # of deaths) we finally wiped. Next pull flawless lol, I was gonna blame it on the squirrel mounts that people had but I'll let it slide. Deadcrickets2 I know you are a F2P advocate and are active here and push out good stuff I can see the need that they needed to take the direction of SC and F2P otions even after the "Never" statement made about cash/micro transactions maybe the 'sell out' there had to be, they do not have to whizz all over the game lore with a lot of silly looking SC garb it could at least 'belong' in the game.

Two things to consider in regards to the statement.  One is that he stated that they wouldn't be converting the Live service.  They instead "created" a "new service" in Extended.  Secondly, Smokejumper has a boss in Smedley who can override him at any time for any reason.

Folks might not like Smedley but they need to remember that he was one of he ones who helped create EverQuest originally.  Much like George Lucas, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs I'm willing to give him some leeway in what he does creatively with the game and its successors.  

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Old 09-29-2011, 02:55 AM   #35
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

So yes, he is listening.

"I wondered whether there is there a danger in making the move to free-to-play? Does a company as established as SOE risk inviting and retaining players who only want to play for nothing?"

Is there a link to the full text ?

Otherwise free to play means exactly that. No costs as long as you stay on the baseline. EQ2x should merge with EQ2 sub. The ridiculous SC stuff like self-rez potion needs to go, just as rares and MC (if still available). Then rather sell the f2p crowd scrolls for broker usage or something along that line. The extended and live gameplay should be the same. Just f2p people have to buy scrolls for certain features like broker and legendary items etc. I never played extended, might be wrong on a few points about SC, but i think its clear what i am about.

In the end it is about cowded servers. Especially the first three tiers. If the frist tiers are alive, then both win because its more fun for a newcomer to see other players. Thats why they should be merged with a server of their choice and Freeport need then to turn into a live server.

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Old 09-29-2011, 02:56 AM   #36
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Eugam wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

So yes, he is listening.

"I wondered whether there is there a danger in making the move to free-to-play? Does a company as established as SOE risk inviting and retaining players who only want to play for nothing?"

Is there a link to the full text ?

Otherwise free to play means exactly that. No costs as long as you stay on the baseline. EQ2x should merge with EQ2 sub. The ridiculous SC stuff like self-rez potion needs to go, just as rares and MC (if still available). Then rather sell the f2p crowd scrolls for broker usage or something along that line. The extended and live gameplay should be the same. Just f2p people have to buy scrolls for certain features like broker and legendary items etc. I never played extended, might be wrong on a few points about SC, but i think its clear what i am about.

In the end it is about cowded servers. Especially the first three tiers. If the frist tiers are alive, then both win because its more fun for a newcomer to see other players. Thats why they should be merged with a server of their choice and Freeport need then to turn into a live server.

If you click on that quote it takes you to the article.

 * If folks are wondering why I keep the quotes so tiny it's for two reasons.  It's done to pull people into the article and it's to stay good with Fair Use laws.

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Old 09-29-2011, 03:09 AM   #37
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

agnott wrote:

The true reward system that MMO's were born with drives everything. After schlepping all over the county side for a month, was there ever a better feeling the "earning" your first mount.

 Those fundamental moments are the life blood of the MMO. Mess with them at your peril.

Or getting that mount with a 5% faster speed than your previous one and seeing the difference it made as you ran across a zone like the CL with a group that had the slower or no mounts.

Most all of the sense of achievement has been removed from this game.

Only to get to your destination and have to wait on them. Yeah. Real fun.

Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

i don't understand that.  never once did i feel a sense of accomplishment bc i arrived at a destination and had to wait for my slowpoke groupmates.  never once did i look back at crossing the commonlands with no mount, then get one and feel like i achieved something bc i had a mount now.  it wasn't an accomplishment.  it was something that i bought, usually with plat but sometimes with cash (SF CE). 

getting your currently useless fabled epic weapon the old-fashioned way: an achievement

getting a mount: not an achievement

back to the topic:  i fail to see how this relates to EQ2. i read the article, expecting that smedly addressed the F2P questions that have been asked about EQ2.  this game wasn't even mentioned.

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Old 09-29-2011, 03:53 AM   #38
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Eugam wrote:

Otherwise free to play means exactly that. No costs as long as you stay on the baseline. EQ2x should merge with EQ2 sub. The ridiculous SC stuff like self-rez potion needs to go, just as rares and MC (if still available). Then rather sell the f2p crowd scrolls for broker usage or something along that line. The extended and live gameplay should be the same. Just f2p people have to buy scrolls for certain features like broker and legendary items etc.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if "rez potions ... rares and MC" make them rather a lot more money than broker scrolls.

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Old 09-29-2011, 04:07 AM   #39
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Bekkr wrote:

Eugam wrote:

Otherwise free to play means exactly that. No costs as long as you stay on the baseline. EQ2x should merge with EQ2 sub. The ridiculous SC stuff like self-rez potion needs to go, just as rares and MC (if still available). Then rather sell the f2p crowd scrolls for broker usage or something along that line. The extended and live gameplay should be the same. Just f2p people have to buy scrolls for certain features like broker and legendary items etc.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if "rez potions ... rares and MC" make them rather a lot more money than broker scrolls.

Its all about balance, even on prices. As said, i never played on extended. But i do play a low level currently and neither MC nor rares are required anymore. At 20-30 the research time for a expert spell is 12 hours. Thats one spell per day. Two if i would log-in in the morning before going to work. Good armor is plenty out there. What really matters is to sell stuff to be able to buy collectibels, food and drinks, totems (chameleon and escape) and maybe a weapon and shield each tier.

I wouldnt mind if f2p has to pay for mender, merchands and broker as long as the price is reasonable. That way f2p pays if its level locking or powerleveling. Just bring the community together again.

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Old 09-29-2011, 04:44 AM   #40
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Tigress wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

agnott wrote:

The true reward system that MMO's were born with drives everything. After schlepping all over the county side for a month, was there ever a better feeling the "earning" your first mount.

 Those fundamental moments are the life blood of the MMO. Mess with them at your peril.

Or getting that mount with a 5% faster speed than your previous one and seeing the difference it made as you ran across a zone like the CL with a group that had the slower or no mounts.

Most all of the sense of achievement has been removed from this game.

Only to get to your destination and have to wait on them. Yeah. Real fun.

Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

i don't understand that.  never once did i feel a sense of accomplishment bc i arrived at a destination and had to wait for my slowpoke groupmates.  never once did i look back at crossing the commonlands with no mount, then get one and feel like i achieved something bc i had a mount now.  it wasn't an accomplishment.  it was something that i bought, usually with plat but sometimes with cash (SF CE). 

getting your currently useless fabled epic weapon the old-fashioned way: an achievement

getting a mount: not an achievement

back to the topic:  i fail to see how this relates to EQ2. i read the article, expecting that smedly addressed the F2P questions that have been asked about EQ2.  this game wasn't even mentioned.

At launch, it took hours to earn a single gold. It took days to earn enough gold to even think about buying a house in the city or a mount, getting even one plat could take weeks or at least several days. The 'discount' you got on the coin price by being in a guild and paying with status (which was just as hard, if not harder to earn) actually meant something. You had to scrimp and save to get even the cheapest mount. It was an accomplishment. Now, yeah, it's nothing, jsut something you buy with your over abundance of plat.

It's kinda like that in life, though, too. When I was a child I saved my allowance and birthday money so I could buy a new Barbie. Now, I'll spend the same amount of money on a whim if I see something I like. I've bought masques for up to $200 just to have them sit in a display case for me to admire. Buying a Barbie now wouldn't be the accomplishment it was when I was a child (unless it was one of the ludicrously priced collector's ones.. and I actually cared about buying Barbies now).

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Old 09-29-2011, 05:12 AM   #41
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Smedley considers it like kicking in a donation to a team of artists. "That's really what we are. We're people who make entertainment for a living, and somebody needs to pay our salaries. Hopefully we're good enough that players think we deserve their money. We have to earn that."

It seems to me the whole f2p idea is based on a "brain-fart" of a smart guy. Maybe based on Neumann/Morgenstern Therory of Games, Prisoners Dilemma and maybe  Nash equilibrium. Or the opposite of it

You cant pay an artist per paint-brush stroke. You only can buy the whole picture. Paying per stroke slowly suppresses innovation and creativity born from chaos. The artist needs the freedom for chaos and creation.  Either he got a sponsor or sells whole pictures. Nothing else works. Trying to break the equilibrium for the sake of creating a cartel for maximized profit might show short term success, but might/will be overtaken by the equlibrium if it was evolutionary stable.

At the dawn of online games people came up with boxes and monthly fees. This although charges of online time have been higher then the cost for the game itself. It would have been much better to start with "pay only what you use". But they didnt.  It is almost grated that box and monthly fee are the evolutionary stable state.

What else do i have to do, so the f2p nonsense stops ?

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Old 09-29-2011, 05:17 AM   #42
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One thing I never understood from players is the sense of entitlement they feel toward playing MMO's for free. 

I've been playing MMO's for about 13 years now and never once minded the cost of 10-15$ a month.  If I take into account what it costs me to go out for one evening, typically being a meal, a drink (or three) and shooting pool or movie, that would easily run me 40-50$ for a night's worth of entertainment.

Playing an MMO, that 15$ a month is extreme entertainment value vs. cost.  It's probably why I don't mind paying an extra 5-10$ a month on Station store items as well. 

Being a former SWG player, it's hard for me to give credit to Smedley/SoE, whose names have become synonomous with "screwing up games" and "not communicating with customers", but I do have to realize how smart the F2P model is. I just don't like the division of players between F2P and subscription models.  I don't think that was a smart move and hurts a community.  SoE should hire psychologists to understand their playerbase, like Verdant used to do when they had EQ1.

To me, one thing Smedley/SoE fails to take into account is that the playerbase is more than numbers. He has mainly operated like players are nothing more than numbers to squeeze dollars out of. All he needs to do is temper that with empathy and communication with the players and I think SoE could really take off. 

As always, just the opinion of this poster. 

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Old 09-29-2011, 06:34 AM   #43
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agnott wrote:

The true reward system that MMO's were born with drives everything. After schlepping all over the county side for a month, was there ever a better feeling the "earning" your first mount.

Once upon a time it was like that. Now it's somewhat different. My new priest was born and bumbled around Darklight Woods for a couple of hours and when I looked again, there was a mount in her bag. I don't even know where it came from, apparently the reward for some or other quest.

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Old 09-29-2011, 06:57 AM   #44
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Rijacki wrote:

Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

At launch, it took hours to earn a single gold. It took days to earn enough gold to even think about buying a house in the city or a mount, getting even one plat could take weeks or at least several days. The 'discount' you got on the coin price by being in a guild and paying with status (which was just as hard, if not harder to earn) actually meant something. You had to scrimp and save to get even the cheapest mount. It was an accomplishment. Now, yeah, it's nothing, jsut something you buy with your over abundance of plat.

I still remember the first time I walked by the houses by SQ mage tower, next to QH gate, 6 years ago. Me and my hubby were wondering if we would ever live in such a house, yea maybe in a very distant future...And eventually we ended up sharing that house, and we had to make sure we had the rent money for it. Its a game in the game that has been lost now. This goes for many other "little" things in the game, things that made EQ2 an epic adventure. They are extinct, rendering the core game more shallow.

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Old 09-29-2011, 08:44 AM   #45
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Rick777 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

thesiren wrote:

I'm a 7-year vet.  Not everyone is, though, and I like newbies in my guilds and on the chats to be excited to hang around EQ2.

Sorry, just my two copper.  Maybe they could make a few difficult-to-obtain quested mounts go a bit faster or something, so as to appease the cranky vets, I don't know.  I understand that SOE probably just did the across-the-boards thing because, like usual, they're overworked and understaffed as it is, but still, it does have its benefits.

I'm working on 7 years myself.

I think they really should have a mount that is 25% faster that is level 90 and must be quested for. I really disagree with the term 'appease' here I would prefer to call it a reward, appeasing is what giving the newbies the fast mounts is, appeasing is removing any sense of danger travelling across overland zones, I mean really where does it end. I want people in the game too I want the game to be healthy but I also enjoyed the difficulty of the content as it was when I did it Nek forest is like disneyland now, just rainy and foggy.

Yes there are benefits to it, but it does mess with the core reward system that one poster mentioned, it makes the game more ho hum nothing to shoot for except further raid progression.

I'd be just happy with ANY mounts for the non SC crowd.  I'd LOVE to quest or kill for a mount, especially a flying mount.

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

I am primarily talking about flying mounts, what's the last flying mount we saw that was non SC.  I don't know much about the other non flying mounts but I'll bet the vast majority of new non flying mounts are SC only as well, but I can't say that for sure except for the flying ones.  I know they released a couple of the gliders/leapers thru quests, but then proceeded to begin to release the new ones only for SC as well.

You can add armor and weapons for appearance to that list.  Almost every week we get new SC appearance armor and weapons, sick looking stuff with incredible partice effects that just looks very over the top and cool, yes bordering on the gaudy but if I'm a legend in a fantasy world give me the gaudy stuff.  Flip over to the game and yes there are tons of armors and weapons, but for the VAST majority they are boring and follow the same pattern.  Quest armor is similar to rygorr armor, which is similar to T1 raid armor, which is the same as T2 armor, and that's my progression in appearance, I pretty much look the same even though I should be a legend in killing T2 raid content.  A couple of months after DOV came out my Templar got is 2 hand hammer from beating the x2, it was just a rather plain looking 2h hammer for all that work, the x4 hammer is even MORE plain, I don't even think it has a particle effect, it's just a barney rubble looking hammer.

I'd just like some stuff that I can earn.  Whether others think buying one thru SC is earning it is besides the point, I respect their opinion and if they think they earned it then more power to them, but for my online persona I don't feel that way for myself.  I pay my sub every month I'd like the opportunity to get a mount that I can strut and have others know that I got it from a hard kill or a long quest.  I don't mind the SC stuff, really I've grown used to it, I seriously hope no one feels like I'm attacking SC in any way. But it just seems like they should throw us subs a bone.

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Old 09-29-2011, 08:46 AM   #46
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Whoa!  This is another one of those thought-provoking threads with too many quotes to try and corral into one response!

I definitely agree with Amitee (and many others who have also mentioned this):  SOE needs a crash-course in communcations skills and opening honest dialogs with its customers.  (Of course, SOE could also counter that with the fact that its player base could, at times, use a crash course in not contorting half of what they say beyond all recognition and then running with it, lol.   But I digress.)

Like Tigress, I am surprised at J. Smedley's apparent passing-over of F2P commentary concerning EQ2 in that link deadcrickets gave, especially considering that SOE's titles are going F2P left and right.  However, he made veiled comments in recent "Planetside 2 is launching as F2P" Massively interviews about impending announcements concerning SOE's other games that we should watch for, so I've the feeling SOE will shed more light on this topic as soon as DCUO converts this October (but maybe not before, as they might not want to take the spotlight off that).

I also agree that epics are an accomplishment and mounts...are just a way to get around so everyone doesn't get nearly as frustrated with all the mundane traveling required in matured AAA MMORPG titles of the sheer size and scope of EQ2.  I do remember my days on Lavastorm where the guild pushed to hit levels that would afford us all discounts on mounts, but today, pushing for a guild hall with a young, small guild is more exciting-- and less aggravating now that everyone has mounts of great speed.  Yo comprendo on the sense of achievement thing-- but they can find other ways to do it that don't involve mindless, repetitive, mundane travel that eats up all my free time.  I'm a single Mom with two kids and two jobs:  I just don't need that. 

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:02 AM   #47
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Tigress wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

agnott wrote:

The true reward system that MMO's were born with drives everything. After schlepping all over the county side for a month, was there ever a better feeling the "earning" your first mount.

 Those fundamental moments are the life blood of the MMO. Mess with them at your peril.

Or getting that mount with a 5% faster speed than your previous one and seeing the difference it made as you ran across a zone like the CL with a group that had the slower or no mounts.

Most all of the sense of achievement has been removed from this game.

Only to get to your destination and have to wait on them. Yeah. Real fun.

Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

i don't understand that.  never once did i feel a sense of accomplishment bc i arrived at a destination and had to wait for my slowpoke groupmates.  never once did i look back at crossing the commonlands with no mount, then get one and feel like i achieved something bc i had a mount now.  it wasn't an accomplishment.  it was something that i bought, usually with plat but sometimes with cash (SF CE). 

getting your currently useless fabled epic weapon the old-fashioned way: an achievement

getting a mount: not an achievement

back to the topic:  i fail to see how this relates to EQ2. i read the article, expecting that smedly addressed the F2P questions that have been asked about EQ2.  this game wasn't even mentioned.

I've felt that.  It was more at the beginning of the game when things were new and traveling overland with your group headed towards a dungeon was actually fun and dangerous.  It wasn't so much about the destination of the loot back in those days, it was about the journey.  What ruins that is grinding of any sort, of having to make the same journey 5 times per week to get enough shards to make gear, so what happens is you begin to fixate on the goal of amassing shards instead of just having fun.  To me the turning point was in ROK, although it began sooner than that it just seems that the transition from ROK to TSO really put an extremely hardcore emphasis on gem/shard farming.  ROK was the last xpac which had truly dangerous overlands and not much, if any travel help other than wiz/druids.

I don't think there will ever be any going back though, unless SOE figured out a way to make the overland journey to the dungeon an adventure in itself, complete with rewards.   I think that might be pretty cool. 

As to you saying getting a mount is not an achievement, I disagree with that BIG time.  I remember scraping for months and months to get my first horse, it was an incredible achievement and you would only see a few dozen with them.  Fast forward to the present and if they put in some mounts which were achieved thru killing raid bosses, or ones thru a long involved quest, for me that would be an achievement, just the same as ANY gear would be an achievement.  Of course mounts are an achievement, that's why they are hands down among some of the coolest looking items in the entire game.  If they weren't an achievement and no one cared about them other than getting to a destination we wouldnt have them and would probably just have increased run speeds or player flying.

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:31 AM   #48
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Onorem wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

Rick777 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

thesiren wrote:

I'm a 7-year vet.  Not everyone is, though, and I like newbies in my guilds and on the chats to be excited to hang around EQ2.

Sorry, just my two copper.  Maybe they could make a few difficult-to-obtain quested mounts go a bit faster or something, so as to appease the cranky vets, I don't know.  I understand that SOE probably just did the across-the-boards thing because, like usual, they're overworked and understaffed as it is, but still, it does have its benefits.

I'm working on 7 years myself.

I think they really should have a mount that is 25% faster that is level 90 and must be quested for. I really disagree with the term 'appease' here I would prefer to call it a reward, appeasing is what giving the newbies the fast mounts is, appeasing is removing any sense of danger travelling across overland zones, I mean really where does it end. I want people in the game too I want the game to be healthy but I also enjoyed the difficulty of the content as it was when I did it Nek forest is like disneyland now, just rainy and foggy.

Yes there are benefits to it, but it does mess with the core reward system that one poster mentioned, it makes the game more ho hum nothing to shoot for except further raid progression.

I'd be just happy with ANY mounts for the non SC crowd.  I'd LOVE to quest or kill for a mount, especially a flying mount.

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

I assume that "roughly" is meant to mean that it was nowhere near that number and you couldn't be bothered to look into it as you white knight for all things eq2x. What I see with an admittedly quick search comes up with nowhere near that number.

In any case...SOE decided to eliminate most of mount progression, so it's mostly down to appearance now. There's several quests for horses. There's a quest for leapers. There's a quest for gliders (but they 'violently inhale' so who cares?) There's a quest for flyers. Now that they've introduced the different types, maybe they could give people options outside of the cash shop for those that want options when it comes to appearance. (It's too late to hope that they'd actually reconsider the generic across the board changes.)

Or you could look it up yourself.  Yes, I was off but not by much.  Folks are acting as if there were twenty or so mounts.  Guess what?  There was a lot more than that.

As for "white knight" you might want to see some of my posts on Extended.  Even Smokejumper will tell you I'm very blunt.  Siren can tell you this, Unos can tell you this, Elomort can tell you this, Amnerys can tell you this.  

Quested Mounts section: Carpet and Wargs I believe are the only pre-SC store.

Shard Mounts: Yep, both the spellbear and warbear were available about a month prior.

Collection Mounts: Nope.

Looted Mounts: Looks like all 14 qualify.

Tinkered: 2 out of 3.

LoN: Looks like about the first 10 make it. (and it's a stretch to call them in game)

Specialty Mounts: Bear? Yes. Rest? No.

Purchased: All 7.

Faction Purchased: Another 15.

Station Cash: Clearly none.

That's not roughly 100 different mounts.

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Old 09-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #49
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Oh, and to further address the topic title here, and in the hopes that the appropriate red-names will read this thread, I would like to put forth the idea for a large advertising campaign, one that could possibly encompass all of SOE's stable of MMOs.

Once DCUO converts to F2P and whatever other SOE games that haven't totally gone F2P are at least announced as going, it would be great to see an actual large-scale ad campaign (similar to what Turbine and others have done) encompassing all of them (if SOE is too hesitant to put all its eggs into one basket with EQ2 ads, although I would rather see a sharp focus on EQ2 anyway but still).  They could highlight the increased Matrix options, and all of the impending in-game events (which at least in EQ2's case blow every other MMO out of the water), and all of their server rule sets too (PvE, RP, PvP, etc.).

Please do it sometime, Sony-- it's been a long time coming and there's no time like the present, unless you'd prefer to lose yet another chunk of your player base to TOR much like you did to Rift, what with all the previous server difficulties that formerly plagued all of EQ2's services earlier this year!

There.  I feel better now.

And at least on the forum in this neck of the woods, someone red will actually read it.  *ducks*

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Old 09-29-2011, 10:26 AM   #50
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Tigress wrote:

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Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

i don't understand that.  never once did i feel a sense of accomplishment bc i arrived at a destination and had to wait for my slowpoke groupmates.  never once did i look back at crossing the commonlands with no mount, then get one and feel like i achieved something bc i had a mount now.  it wasn't an accomplishment.  it was something that i bought, usually with plat but sometimes with cash (SF CE). 

getting your currently useless fabled epic weapon the old-fashioned way: an achievement

getting a mount: not an achievement

back to the topic:  i fail to see how this relates to EQ2. i read the article, expecting that smedly addressed the F2P questions that have been asked about EQ2.  this game wasn't even mentioned.

Geez Tigress are you trolling me here or what?

Because if you seriously gathered that I was saying that getting across the CL faster than other was an accomplishement then you are as obtuse as they come. I didn't say GETTING a mount I said EARNING a mount.

It realtes to EQ2 because it is part of this game now, the game didn't have to be mentioned it didn't need to be it was an all-inclusive topic. It really isn't worth discussing with you much further because you are either being nothing but a troll here or you do not have the faculties to comprehend the conversation.

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Old 09-29-2011, 10:31 AM   #51
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Ruut Li wrote:

Raknid wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Achievement means exceptionalism, and we can't have anyone feeling left behind, or so it seems nowadays.

The community is like a communistic kindergarten. Everyone is entitled to everything, no matter what little effort they put forth. We now have same speed ground mounts and same speed flying mounts. The kindergarten part of it are the immersion breaking mounts like punkrocker birds and lizards, etc. In the end everyone will have the same gear, with a fabled tag slapped on it, and all mobs will be locked up in soloable dungeons. Nobody and nothing will be even slightly different and special. lolfun.

That wasn't my statement in the middle there trimming inner quotes somewhere caused that, but I wholeheartedly agree with it and the reply.

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Old 09-29-2011, 10:52 AM   #52
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

Sure were not any flying squirrels.

but on a positive note after the most pathetic attempt on HM Gunnr ever executed tonight after we got him down to 10% or so (after an uncountable # of deaths) we finally wiped. Next pull flawless lol, I was gonna blame it on the squirrel mounts that people had but I'll let it slide. Deadcrickets2 I know you are a F2P advocate and are active here and push out good stuff I can see the need that they needed to take the direction of SC and F2P otions even after the "Never" statement made about cash/micro transactions maybe the 'sell out' there had to be, they do not have to whizz all over the game lore with a lot of silly looking SC garb it could at least 'belong' in the game.

Two things to consider in regards to the statement.  One is that he stated that they wouldn't be converting the Live service.  They instead "created" a "new service" in Extended.  Secondly, Smokejumper has a boss in Smedley who can override him at any time for any reason.

Folks might not like Smedley but they need to remember that he was one of he ones who helped create EverQuest originally.  Much like George Lucas, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs I'm willing to give him some leeway in what he does creatively with the game and its successors.  

We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment

SJ didn't say it Smedley did you do not even have that right, there it is that is the quote, black and white a 100% about face reversal of what he said. In my post I said that I could accept that it changed due to market demands, but they didn't have to sell out to the point of putting ridiculous squirrel mounts in the game that violate the lore. You don't have any desire to have a discussion on the subject you are just hell-bent on trying to one up someone and prove them wrong and you are stumbling all over yourself ITT trying to do so. SJ and Smedley can do whatever the hell they want with the game I just wish one of them had a desire to FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN BEFORE THEY CONTINUE ON WITH MORE UPDATES WHILE ALLOWING RIDCULOUS BUGS LIKE THE AA MIRROR STILL NOT WORKING AFTER GU61 WHICH SHOULD NEVER EVEN MADE IT TO THE TEST SERVER AS A BUG MUCH LESS LIVE. If only ONE of them had a desire to do so then maybe.

I have not even saw a red name ACKNOWLEDGE that the AA mirrors are broken since GU61, it isn't on the (worthless) TKI page, it has not gotten a reply in any thread I have saw it mentioned in, it is like if they don't acknoledge it it isn't there or something. idk.

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Old 09-29-2011, 11:23 AM   #53
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Ruut Li wrote:

Rijacki wrote:

Nothing like a good goal to work towards and have a feeling of accomplishment when you get there, it doesn't have to be a mount it can be anything but to not have a best item of a certain type in the game where it can be earned in whatever way and all mounts equal in speed blows.

At launch, it took hours to earn a single gold. It took days to earn enough gold to even think about buying a house in the city or a mount, getting even one plat could take weeks or at least several days. The 'discount' you got on the coin price by being in a guild and paying with status (which was just as hard, if not harder to earn) actually meant something. You had to scrimp and save to get even the cheapest mount. It was an accomplishment. Now, yeah, it's nothing, jsut something you buy with your over abundance of plat.

I still remember the first time I walked by the houses by SQ mage tower, next to QH gate, 6 years ago. Me and my hubby were wondering if we would ever live in such a house, yea maybe in a very distant future...And eventually we ended up sharing that house, and we had to make sure we had the rent money for it. Its a game in the game that has been lost now. This goes for many other "little" things in the game, things that made EQ2 an epic adventure. They are extinct, rendering the core game more shallow.

You get it.

Years back I was say level 30 or so and looking for rares. I look up and there was this huge Paladin on his horse. He had this gleaming armor and I was just in awe. I was so dedicated after that.

I have not looked at what people are wearing in a long time ..I just assume its all appearance armor. And in my eyes, appearance armor is the enbodiment of all that is wrong. If there is a word that describes that oppsite of what appreance armor is it's    "integrity"

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Old 09-29-2011, 11:38 AM   #54
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thesiren wrote:

I also agree that epics are an accomplishment and mounts...are just a way to get around so everyone doesn't get nearly as frustrated with all the mundane traveling required in matured AAA MMORPG titles of the sheer size and scope of EQ2.  I do remember my days on Lavastorm where the guild pushed to hit levels that would afford us all discounts on mounts, but today, pushing for a guild hall with a young, small guild is more exciting-- and less aggravating now that everyone has mounts of great speed.  Yo comprendo on the sense of achievement thing-- but they can find other ways to do it that don't involve mindless, repetitive, mundane travel that eats up all my free time.  I'm a single Mom with two kids and two jobs:  I just don't need that. 

Mounts were just an example of something that was an accomplishment requiring some in-game effot and now isn't. Housing is another. Getting items in-game via loot or questing because they had a "cool" appearance. And so on.

Once the game goes fully F2P, what accomplishments will be left? Nothing you can display to others (unless they look at your achievements, maybe) because anything that 'shows' has a better appearance item in the cash shop.

  • Before: "Oh wow, where did you get that?" "I had to do thus and so quest or fight this and that major target. It took me weeks to be able to get it."
  • Now: "Oh wow, where did you get that?" "It's 750SC in the cash shop, it was added new yesterday."

Sure, you could argue the 'accomplishment' in the acquisition is shifted to RL, you have to get the RL money to get the SC. It takes away a lot of the "the game is another world where the RL world doesn't hold sway and you can be something different" aspect of why a lot of people play games.

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Old 09-29-2011, 12:28 PM   #55
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Rijacki wrote:

As for the piece, pretty much fluff and nothing that wasn't said before except it was written by someone who is a big fan of F2P. Whether he was a year ago or not, he's extremely fannish of F2P and the piece shows his bias.

Yeah, his "bias" is called reality check. Businessmen don't live in lala land if they want to have any sort of success and if they want the product to survive with the changes in customer expectations, economy, etc...

I would have quoted this myself:

"It's very simple," Smedley answered. "The games with a lot more players certainly get more resources from the company, as you would expect. We try to keep some resources on every game to varying extents."

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Old 09-29-2011, 12:31 PM   #56
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[email protected] wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

Even before the SC store there were roughly 100 different mounts in the game that you could obtain.  That hasn't changed.

Sure were not any flying squirrels.

but on a positive note after the most pathetic attempt on HM Gunnr ever executed tonight after we got him down to 10% or so (after an uncountable # of deaths) we finally wiped. Next pull flawless lol, I was gonna blame it on the squirrel mounts that people had but I'll let it slide. Deadcrickets2 I know you are a F2P advocate and are active here and push out good stuff I can see the need that they needed to take the direction of SC and F2P otions even after the "Never" statement made about cash/micro transactions maybe the 'sell out' there had to be, they do not have to whizz all over the game lore with a lot of silly looking SC garb it could at least 'belong' in the game.

Two things to consider in regards to the statement.  One is that he stated that they wouldn't be converting the Live service.  They instead "created" a "new service" in Extended.  Secondly, Smokejumper has a boss in Smedley who can override him at any time for any reason.

Folks might not like Smedley but they need to remember that he was one of he ones who helped create EverQuest originally.  Much like George Lucas, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs I'm willing to give him some leeway in what he does creatively with the game and its successors.

We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement. In any event, I wanted to stop in and at least set the record straight - you aren't going to be seeing RMT allowed on the non-exchange enabled servers. John Smedley President, Sony Online Entertainment

SJ didn't say it Smedley did you do not even have that right, there it is that is the quote, black and white a 100% about face reversal of what he said. In my post I said that I could accept that it changed due to market demands, but they didn't have to sell out to the point of putting ridiculous squirrel mounts in the game that violate the lore. You don't have any desire to have a discussion on the subject you are just hell-bent on trying to one up someone and prove them wrong and you are stumbling all over yourself ITT trying to do so. SJ and Smedley can do whatever the hell they want with the game I just wish one of them had a desire to FIX THINGS THAT ARE BROKEN BEFORE THEY CONTINUE ON WITH MORE UPDATES WHILE ALLOWING RIDCULOUS BUGS LIKE THE AA MIRROR STILL NOT WORKING AFTER GU61 WHICH SHOULD NEVER EVEN MADE IT TO THE TEST SERVER AS A BUG MUCH LESS LIVE. If only ONE of them had a desire to do so then maybe.

I have not even saw a red name ACKNOWLEDGE that the AA mirrors are broken since GU61, it isn't on the (worthless) TKI page, it has not gotten a reply in any thread I have saw it mentioned in, it is like if they don't acknoledge it it isn't there or something. idk.

Is Extended currently considered a seperate service with its own forum?  Yes or no.

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Old 09-29-2011, 12:33 PM   #57
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Gladiolus wrote:

Ruut Li wrote:

The community is like a communistic kindergarten. Everyone is entitled to everything, no matter what little effort they put forth.

This seems to be what people want; see the threads on the rating of houses. The idea of half being below average is apparently anethema.

My point exactly.

Not to delve too far into the socio-political area, but I think this is something that ails us as a society. We have lost that drive in our gut that made us excel, and it is being reflected by our declining position in the world.

As someone sig on another forum states, a Truman Capote quote, "Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor."

If you never fail, if you are never below average, you never have to strive, and if you do chance upon success by your own making, it is not near as sweet.

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Old 09-29-2011, 12:34 PM   #58
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Rijacki wrote:

thesiren wrote:

I also agree that epics are an accomplishment and mounts...are just a way to get around so everyone doesn't get nearly as frustrated with all the mundane traveling required in matured AAA MMORPG titles of the sheer size and scope of EQ2.  I do remember my days on Lavastorm where the guild pushed to hit levels that would afford us all discounts on mounts, but today, pushing for a guild hall with a young, small guild is more exciting-- and less aggravating now that everyone has mounts of great speed.  Yo comprendo on the sense of achievement thing-- but they can find other ways to do it that don't involve mindless, repetitive, mundane travel that eats up all my free time.  I'm a single Mom with two kids and two jobs:  I just don't need that. 

Mounts were just an example of something that was an accomplishment requiring some in-game effot and now isn't. Housing is another. Getting items in-game via loot or questing because they had a "cool" appearance. And so on.

Once the game goes fully F2P, what accomplishments will be left? Nothing you can display to others (unless they look at your achievements, maybe) because anything that 'shows' has a better appearance item in the cash shop.

  • Before: "Oh wow, where did you get that?" "I had to do thus and so quest or fight this and that major target. It took me weeks to be able to get it."
  • Now: "Oh wow, where did you get that?" "It's 750SC in the cash shop, it was added new yesterday."

Sure, you could argue the 'accomplishment' in the acquisition is shifted to RL, you have to get the RL money to get the SC. It takes away a lot of the "the game is another world where the RL world doesn't hold sway and you can be something different" aspect of why a lot of people play games.

You still have a huge amount of content in the game.  You still have your prior accomplishments in the game.  And you are getting new accomplishments as time goes on.  Not all the best looking items are in the SC shop.  On the furniture side I would agree and that part is annoying.  However, this is a business and they need to make money.  A business is not a charity.

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Old 09-29-2011, 12:40 PM   #59
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The times have changed.

The era of "me, me, me" is coming to an end. That was one generation ago.

If your sole reason to enjoy having XYZ mount is because you worked hard for it and other people should too, you're living in the past. This is not what a game is about. A game is about EVERYONE having a good time.

We don't log in a game to parade how cool we are, sheesh. You can shove your pride up where it doesn't shine.

All we need is challenging content, fun quests and interesting gameplay.

Maybe once you figure this out, you will realize that people who get fluff items off the Marketplace don't have any negative impact on your personal enjoyment of the game whatsoever. That is of course, if you take a honest look at what you think is "enjoyable" and what the game is really about (hint: it's not about showing off or being "uber").
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #60
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[email protected] wrote:

The times have changed.

The era of "me, me, me" is coming to an end. That was one generation ago.

If your sole reason to enjoy having XYZ mount is because you worked hard for it and other people should too, you're living in the past. This is not what a game is about. A game is about EVERYONE having a good time.

We don't log in a game to parade how cool we are, sheesh. You can shove your pride up where it doesn't shine.

All we need is challenging content, fun quests and interesting gameplay.

Maybe once you figure this out, you will realize that people who get fluff items off the Marketplace don't have any negative impact on your personal enjoyment of the game whatsoever. That is of course, if you take a honest look at what you think is "enjoyable" and what the game is really about (hint: it's not about showing off or being "uber").

The game is about adventuring, questing, and killing monsters. EVERYTHING else is just a sidelight that could never exist without the core principles I first mentioned, at least as an MMORPG is concerned.

There games like Second Life where playing dress up and house decorating is what the game is focused around.

This game is not about playing dress up or decorating houses...wait a minute....poo.

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