EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > Battlegrounds
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #1
Korvoth

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Default

First I want to say that I do NOT want to play a beastlord.   I've narrowed it down to a Brig,  Swash, or Assassin.   I was looking at AA's and spells and noticed the Assassin get a nice stifle but didn't see anything in there AA lines that give them multi attack.   The swash looked interesting also but I noticed they didn't get a stifle.   Can anyone with some experience tell me how these classes do in the 30-39 bracket?

Better dps?

Better control?

I have some friends who play this bracket but they play healer and the other a tank so they didn't really know.  My healer friend said the stifles are a pain to deal with.

Thanks in advance for the help.

p.s.  The assassin forums are dead so I posted here since there seems to be alot more talk about T4 in these forums.

Korvoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 12:32 AM   #2
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

The assassin stifle is nice, but overall I'd pick a brig.

Honestly, ranger is more fun to play than any of those classes, and beastlord is clearly the best choice but the last thing T4 BGs needs is a bunch of twink bsts.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2012, 12:38 PM   #3
Tygana
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Dragon Fodder
Rank: Well Balanced Meal

Loremaster
Tygana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 170
Default

I play a ranger in T4, but I am working on twinking a BL for it as well.  Rangers are good because you can get in close if you want, or stand back and kill from a distance.

Tygana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2012, 04:11 PM   #4
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

The swash is really fun, but most what you do doesn't show up in the parse.  You have so many offensive/healing debuffs you can lock down a healer better than any other class.

Ranger is a great playstyle, but there's a ton of rangers and beastlords in there already...including myself.

Troub would be another one to consider...played well they can do a lot of dps and contribute utility as well.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 02:51 PM   #5
Korvoth

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Default

As suggested I chose the Ranger.   He's very fun but really way to expensive to run at 39.   I go threw arrows and poisons in no time and they aren't cheap.  Is it intended to have to pay this much to dps as a ranger.  It's easily several plat a day to play him and I don't have a 90 to farm for him.  

I may start another toon thats not a scout so I don't have to worry about the upkeep.   I was thinking of a fighter class maybe?  Do you guys have any suggestions on a cheaper melee class?   Someone suggested a troubador.   Do they require the same poison/ammo costs?  

Korvoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 01:33 AM   #6
Vlahkmaak
Server: Venekor
Guild: Opus Dei
Rank: Captain

Loremaster
Vlahkmaak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA
Posts: 1,213
Default

Level the crafting up on him too as a WW to make your own arrows.

__________________
Obin 92 Iksar Necro Opus Dei Nagafen

Vlahkmaak 92 Troll Guardian Nagafen

Dwyrm 92 Dwarf Paladin Nagafen

Shoofaug 92 Iksar bruiser Nagafen

Vlah 92 Troll Inqy Nagafen

Vlahk 50 SK Nagafen

Glavlahnus 92 Woodelf Ranger, betrayed and back again

Cructik 92 TROLL BL Nagafen
Vlahkmaak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2012, 02:58 AM   #7
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

Korvoth wrote:

As suggested I chose the Ranger.   He's very fun but really way to expensive to run at 39.   I go threw arrows and poisons in no time and they aren't cheap.  Is it intended to have to pay this much to dps as a ranger.  It's easily several plat a day to play him and I don't have a 90 to farm for him.  

I may start another toon thats not a scout so I don't have to worry about the upkeep.   I was thinking of a fighter class maybe?  Do you guys have any suggestions on a cheaper melee class?   Someone suggested a troubador.   Do they require the same poison/ammo costs?  

Yeah, a lot of troub dps is ranged too so you prob want to pick an up-close scout then to avoid the ammo cost.  You're going to have the poison costs on any scout but bstlord tho.  I'd say either betray your ranger to assassin or roll either of the rogues...both are solid in there.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:42 AM   #8
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Level woodworker to 39 if you're spending that much, it might take you like a week at most if you don't even try. Your poisons don't get used up in BG. I mean, everything you describe you want = bst, but if you don't want to play a bst, I would suggest brigand, shadowknight, or zerker for melee fighter... although zerkers aren't impressive in T4, at least they are hard to kill. Honestly though if I was gonna roll a zerker, I'd roll a guard instead and just be an aggro beast.

So, brig/shadowknight. Troub if you wanna be fancy, but will most likely be a road of frustration, and takes a lot of effort to setup. It's really a group buffing class, and while yea you can 1v1 and kite, in a 6v6 or more BG scenario, you're there for buffs and your stifle. Other classes can be more effective with less AA and worse gear.

Brig is better at locking down healers than swash. They have a root, and stun, defensive debuffs, and their dispel strips more buffs than swash. Enchanters are best at locking down healers obviously, but I assume he was talking about scouts only.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #9
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Brig is better at locking down healers than swash. They have a root, and stun, defensive debuffs, and their dispel strips more buffs than swash. Enchanters are best at locking down healers obviously, but I assume he was talking about scouts only.

I'll still take my swash.  Chanters can only do their thing if left alone and, in general, people play well enough in the 39s to keep that from happening. 

As a swash I'm going to root, stun, remove a chunk of wis, all your recovery and cast speed, drop your physical mitigation, defense and parry while getting my passive interrupt off ~90 times a fight in addition to the active interrupt, taunt and a 2.5s knockdown/stun on a 10 sec recast.  You don't see that much cause most the swashes in there play it as a dps class and run around trying to parse on the squishies.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #10
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Twyxx wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Brig is better at locking down healers than swash. They have a root, and stun, defensive debuffs, and their dispel strips more buffs than swash. Enchanters are best at locking down healers obviously, but I assume he was talking about scouts only.

I'll still take my swash.  Chanters can only do their thing if left alone and, in general, people play well enough in the 39s to keep that from happening. 

As a swash I'm going to root, stun, remove a chunk of wis, all your recovery and cast speed, drop your physical mitigation, defense and parry while getting my passive interrupt off ~90 times a fight in addition to the active interrupt, taunt and a 2.5s knockdown/stun on a 10 sec recast.  You don't see that much cause most the swashes in there play it as a dps class and run around trying to parse on the squishies.

I mean, that's true and all, but I've highlighted the things you've listed that brigs can do as well. I don't remember if brigs get wis debuff, but I have 594 wis and 4k power, so not too worried about it. Brig taunt strips more buffs, and I think it's on a faster recast but I could be totally wrong about the recast.

As for the KB, brigs have the same thing on their ranged CA double throw, but 30 second recast. But, they also have deciet - a 60 sec KB proc (5 min recast though).

Either scout is fine, but playing my warden brigs give me a way harder time than swashbucklers. I also played an illy for a long time in T4, and I had no problem completely stopping people from playing the game. People seem to think illusionists are easy to kill, I guess because a lot of illys don't gear out. As a swash, there's a good change you're going to be in the melee fray getting taunted off my warden.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

Yeah, guess I don't have any playing experience with a brig to say swashes are better, but I know what can be done on a swash and just don't see people doing it so assuming they're undervalued. I'll grab Snyckers next time I see you in there and see if I can be persuasive. SMILEY
__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 08:07 AM   #12
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

haha, I'll take that challenge... you can't kill me

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 12:49 AM   #13
Splatterpunk28

Loremaster
Splatterpunk28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 447
Default

You mentioned a non-beastlord scout in T4...only one I'd suggest is a Troub. 

Most interesting, most versatile for how you want to play it and if you are looking for dps, only other scout I've seen top their dmg in T4 is a beastlord.  Beastlords and troubs can do over 100k in gears, I've seen it many times -- never come across another scout that could.  And troubs put beastlords to shame 1v1.

Splatterpunk28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 11:43 AM   #14
Korvoth

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Default

Since I originally posted I've betrayed my ranger to an assassin.   He is more fun and much cheaper to maintain. but his survivability isn't so hot in group situations.    I do very well if I catch someone alone but thats hard to do in most BG's.  I can give some healers problems if stifle is up but geared ones are still impossible to burst down solo.

I haven't seen anyone play a troubador and come close to a BL.   There was a BL last night in Gears who did 162k damage.  (that seems way out of line to me) Sixguage always tops the heal parse always well above 100k.  I really haven't seen any other healers or dps classes come close to warden heals or BL's dps.   I know parses aren't the best way to guage usefulness to a group.  Illusionist's for example can really change a games outcome but you'll never see it on a parse.

I like alts and have enough tokens now to gear another one out but I want to be sure i pick the right class before I buy all the BG gear and adorns.  I have a dirge who I created this weekend during double xp who is level 20/100 aa ( i could betray to troub).   I know very little about them other than they buff the hell out of melee and most of what I've seen in t4 bg's are melee.   Are troub's better for groups and better damage?   I thought since the buffs the dirge gave also helped his own dps,  he'd be better but i've never seen a good dirge either.   Do the buffs these classes do really make a difference at this tier?

I know I orginally asked about scouts but now I'm curious as to which classes really make a difference in a BG.   I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions too. 

Korvoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 10:14 PM   #15
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

Korvoth wrote:

Since I originally posted I've betrayed my ranger to an assassin.   He is more fun and much cheaper to maintain. but his survivability isn't so hot in group situations.    I do very well if I catch someone alone but thats hard to do in most BG's.  I can give some healers problems if stifle is up but geared ones are still impossible to burst down solo.

I haven't seen anyone play a troubador and come close to a BL.   There was a BL last night in Gears who did 162k damage.  (that seems way out of line to me) Sixguage always tops the heal parse always well above 100k.  I really haven't seen any other healers or dps classes come close to warden heals or BL's dps.   I know parses aren't the best way to guage usefulness to a group.  Illusionist's for example can really change a games outcome but you'll never see it on a parse.

I like alts and have enough tokens now to gear another one out but I want to be sure i pick the right class before I buy all the BG gear and adorns.  I have a dirge who I created this weekend during double xp who is level 20/100 aa ( i could betray to troub).   I know very little about them other than they buff the hell out of melee and most of what I've seen in t4 bg's are melee.   Are troub's better for groups and better damage?   I thought since the buffs the dirge gave also helped his own dps,  he'd be better but i've never seen a good dirge either.   Do the buffs these classes do really make a difference at this tier?

I know I orginally asked about scouts but now I'm curious as to which classes really make a difference in a BG.   I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions too. 

Wardens and Beastlords are stupidly OP.  So, no other classes are going to compare. 

Dirges are effective, but you're not gonna do much damage.  Waits is the best one in there and not sure I've seen him crack 40kish...at least not often.  Troubs I've seen go for 120k+.  There's a boatload of new, bad troubs in there though.  Same with wizzies (don't understand that one...never seen a single worthwhile wiz).

As far as buffs go, they can be very beneficial to your group, depending on the buff.  The problem is that people are constantly dying so you're constantly rebuffing.  Or if you have AE buffs and the group is spread all over Tundra. 

As far as your assassin goes, I see way too many sins (or scouts in general)  build super defensively...doesn't make any sense to me.  Like with shields even.  What works for dueling and open world pvp (if that still exists anymore) is not what you should be using in bgs.  Find places in your gear to work in some defense, but build closer to glass cannon and use skill for survivability.  Basically the opposite of Camelmansam. 

Try to hit the curve on dps and haste mods if you can.  Think they start curving around 60-70 (meaning you're not getting 100% value for the stat any longer.  Ability mod is powerful in this tier.  Add mod after dps/haste to try and get around 200-300. 

Something a lot of people don't realize is that when gearing you should mentor down to 30 and then look at gear options.  Something with 15 attack speed at lvl 39 isn't worth something with 12 attk speed at 30.  Watch mitigation with that too.  Those lvl 37 deathfist pieces can be good, but have very very little defense since they have no resists and very low mitigation.  Take a couple of the higher dps/haste pieces and mix them with the new bg armor.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 04:18 AM   #16
Zeepa

Historian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Default

wardens are not op at tier 4 in the least bit tbh they went thru a huge nerf abit ago its rare you see a warden pulling the heal parses that six does and thats jus cuz he's dam good but for serious if I had my brigand still in tier4 (Broan) there would not be a healer that plays that tier that would be able to stand against my dps and ability to decimate healers/caster like I did back in the day.

Zeepa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 05:18 AM   #17
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Twyxx wrote:

Something a lot of people don't realize is that when gearing you should mentor down to 30 and then look at gear options.  Something with 15 attack speed at lvl 39 isn't worth something with 12 attk speed at 30.  Watch mitigation with that too.  Those lvl 37 deathfist pieces can be good, but have very very little defense since they have no resists and very low mitigation.  Take a couple of the higher dps/haste pieces and mix them with the new bg armor.

This is good advice, and something I've done when gearing characters, but a lot of people that BG are on Nagafen and gear for open world pvp.

My parses are high because of 426 ability mod and 4k power pool (5k unmentored), and above average power regen... and wardens are the ideal class built for pvp healing IMO.

Game changing classes can be enchanters, their most obvious advantage is CC, but if spec'd correctly have very fast casting haste and are amazing at grabbing the relic in gears. Illys even better than coercer thanks to being able to mez while running, and having a pet that also CCs.

I have never seen a good dirge either, so I'm with you there. I agree Waits is the best dirge I've seen, but he's a nuisance at best just because of fear. Mostly, dirges are nothing but fun targets for my serene symbol dispel. I would def recommend troub over dirge at that level because of their casting haste (gold in pvp), stifle, and they are prob the second best rangers in the game at level 39. Melee benefits from troubs as well.

Good tanks are big game changers. A tank that can hold aggro on the right targets and KB/CC during relic drop can be the difference between win/lose.

Good healers are obviously big game changers.

Rogues can be game changers situationally, but I've never seen one with the attention span long enough to make a big difference. If a rogue decides to punish a healer for an entire match, that healer is pretty much going to have a bad 10 minutes. But if the healer has a good tank, that's probably not going to happen.

A geared bst is a huge game changer.

A guardian could be a game changer I think, but would have to be played with some amount of skill and awareness of what is going on. It's super rare to see a geared guard, Steppen is the only one I've seen but he doesn't BG, and I'm rolling one up because I think the class has a lot of potential to tank very well in pvp if played correctly.

Despite everything, I think overall in general you will find the classes that make little to no impact on the outcome of a match are necro, conj, wizard, warlock, assassin, ranger, troub, dirge, mystic, defiler, guardian

Of course all of this assumes everyone in the BG map is geared/skilled/AA'd etc.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 01:23 PM   #18
frogspawn

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 44
Default

frogspawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2012, 01:27 PM   #19
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Game changing classes can be enchanters, their most obvious advantage is CC, but if spec'd correctly have very fast casting haste and are amazing at grabbing the relic in gears.

That was actually fixed in GU61.  Cast speed no longer affects harvest speed.  Only thing you can do to improve it is the briarwood harvest tools or the Coldain Prayer Shawl and Earring of the Solstice if you wanna craft em all the way up and do the tradeskill epics.

One point to note is that player skill > class.  If you have great awareness and timing you can be a game changer on any class.  Sainthayles (warlock) and Bowed (ranger) are examples of players that are strong on map objectives and other than Saint's manashield they aren't really using their class to win.  Ohyes (and all his toons) combines useful classes with being great on objectives...wish there were more players this challenging to play against.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 01:19 PM   #20
Korvoth

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Default

Korvoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2012, 06:33 PM   #21
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

I'm pretty sure casting haste still effects relic clicking speed still. I mean, I could be wrong... but I'm like 75% sure.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #22
Applo

Loremaster
Applo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 69
Default

Korvoth wrote:

I know I orginally asked about scouts but now I'm curious as to which classes really make a difference in a BG.   I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions too.

Paladin > Warden > SK > BL 

It depends on who is on your team, but stand alone: Pally/warden/SK will make the biggest impact. 

Perfect kill team: Pally/Warden/SK/BL/BL/Illy.

There's a couple other classes that are awesome situationally, but the ones I listed above are solid no matter the setting.

Applo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 10:51 AM   #23
Korvoth

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
Default

I eventually settled on the paladin.   I agree that they help the team out alot.   I've parsed 80k on heals which doesn't really touch a warden's heals but at the same time i'm parsing 50k damage.   I won't top anything but I definately contribute.  

I tried the SK for a bit and while I taunted and killed alot I really missed being able to heal my team.  I appreciate all the advise from everyone.

Korvoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2012, 10:16 PM   #24
Elwin
Server: Venekor
Guild: Blades of Honor
Rank: Master Blade

Loremaster
Elwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 659
Default

Have T4 battlegrounds improved in the last 12 months?

Has the population for 39's picked up again?

I'm hoping the answer is yes... I miss my coercer.

Elwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 05:10 AM   #25
Bloodrage

Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 51
Default

Splatterpunk28 wrote:

You mentioned a non-beastlord scout in T4...only one I'd suggest is a Troub. 

Most interesting, most versatile for how you want to play it and if you are looking for dps, only other scout I've seen top their dmg in T4 is a beastlord.  Beastlords and troubs can do over 100k in gears, I've seen it many times -- never come across another scout that could.  And troubs put beastlords to shame 1v1.

Other scouts can easily break 100k. I screenshotted a few parses the other night for ya, I've parsed higher but not really relevent.. just wanted to show you my swash & ranger both break 100k almost every game. Also attached one for Malevolence who said "zerkers aren't impressive in T4". Zerkers are very high aoe dps in t4.

Bloodrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2012, 05:17 AM   #26
Bloodrage

Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 51
Default

Bloodrage wrote:

Splatterpunk28 wrote:

You mentioned a non-beastlord scout in T4...only one I'd suggest is a Troub. 

Most interesting, most versatile for how you want to play it and if you are looking for dps, only other scout I've seen top their dmg in T4 is a beastlord.  Beastlords and troubs can do over 100k in gears, I've seen it many times -- never come across another scout that could.  And troubs put beastlords to shame 1v1.

Other scouts can easily break 100k. I screenshotted a few parses the other night for ya, I've parsed higher but not really relevent.. just wanted to show you my swash & ranger both break 100k almost every game. Also attached one for Malevolence who said "zerkers aren't impressive in T4". Zerkers are very high aoe dps in t4.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, no idea why it did that.

Bloodrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:47 PM   #27
Applo

Loremaster
Applo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 69
Default

Bloodrage:

It's true I've seen it on RARE occasions.  I've actually BG'd with all 3 of your toons you showed here and never saw parses like this from any of them  Your last one wasn't a gears, so those numbers don't mean much to figure out anything.  Not saying you are faking them, obviously, just saying these are not 'amost every bg'.  The scouts you play are good if they are left alone and the opposing team has a good healer for high dps parses.  Same thing with your zerker, if people all bunch up around you then you can pull off amazing parses, same as a warlock if left alone. 

Toe to toe those scout classes aren't great and make a small impact if the opposing team has a clue (they'd just hunt you down and kill you over and over if you're dps'ing or hindering much on people that matter -- or taunt you off of people that do if you are getting heals).  If people are picking easy kills for parses, they are irrelevant.

It really is a matter of who you have in your group and who you are against with on how parses end up for the classes you play.  Also in gears, it matters if you pick up the relic.  I notice that people with the highest parses are typically never picking up the relic or end up losing (or both, like your first screenshot)

Elifin:

My concept of time is pretty bad, but other than shortly after Tundra came out and all the 90s were in T4 bgs and all of that which killed BGS completely for a time, the T4 BG population is pretty decent now.  It isn't as it great as it was pre-DoV, but you can get a queue pretty much all the time until about midnight pacific time.  It's almost always the same people though except weekends.

Applo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #28
Elwin
Server: Venekor
Guild: Blades of Honor
Rank: Master Blade

Loremaster
Elwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 659
Default

Applo wrote:

My concept of time is pretty bad, but other than shortly after Tundra came out and all the 90s were in T4 bgs and all of that which killed BGS completely for a time, the T4 BG population is pretty decent now.  It isn't as it great as it was pre-DoV, but you can get a queue pretty much all the time until about midnight pacific time.  It's almost always the same people though except weekends.

Cool, thanks for the reply.

Same people all the time is a bonus. I need to l2p my chanter again, and get my butt back in there.

Elwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 07:40 AM   #29
Splatterpunk28

Loremaster
Splatterpunk28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 447
Default

I have to agree with Malevolencexx and Applo on T4 classes.

And my post was in regards to the OP's original question.  Troubs are the most versatile scout in T4, they can either go full utility or full on awesome targetted dps while at the same time can own all other scouts 1v1.  My point was more about having fun, having a challenge and still making an impact in bg outcomes.

I rarely bg these days, but I haven't ever seen parses like those either.  But like Applo said, the parses only show so much.  Often enough big parses are counterintuitive.  An example is a warden that keeps everyone alive the entire bg all without power and they lose mostly because of it, but whohoo look at their 200k heal parse!  Another example is a beastlord chain killing easy pick offs for the dps parse and never grabbing the relic or targetting the opposing team's healer or relic holder, but whoohoo look at that 200k dps parse!

Think about why a paladin is the king of T4 bgs.  It's because of his taunts, targetted heals and targetted stuns and knockbacks, none of which are going to showcase him on a parse, though if spec'd in a certain way his autoattack dmg can be pretty impressive.  If you look at your persona window you'll quickly see that T4 is all about melee.  Most people are maxed out on spell resists, which reduce spell damage by 75%, yet physical mitigation can't come close to that.  Throw on another 20-30% of toughness pvp dmg reduction and that's why mages suck so bad for dps and why wardens are so much better than furies, though druids are leaps and bounds better than other healers for gears.  If you really are just all about winning, an uber paladin and warden duo can pretty much win against anyone with the slightest of assistance from their team, add in an uber melee dps and you're guaranteed it if all focused on getting the relic or flag.

The reason why I rarely bg these days is because they aren't that fun any more.  Too many people are either totally focused on their parses and screwing their team in the process or so focused on winning they are either trying to stack a pregroup to make it so one sided it's a joke or they run with the relic and flag avoiding 'pvp', totally defeating the purpose of queueing in the first place. 

Other than the random bg binge every few weeks, I'm waiting for new gear and hopefully a new type of match.  In the meantime I'm glad you guys are keeping them going. 

*cheers

Splatterpunk28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2012, 09:40 AM   #30
Bloodrage

Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 51
Default

Applo wrote:

Bloodrage:

It's true I've seen it on RARE occasions.  I've actually BG'd with all 3 of your toons you showed here and never saw parses like this from any of them  Your last one wasn't a gears, so those numbers don't mean much to figure out anything.  Not saying you are faking them, obviously, just saying these are not 'amost every bg'.  The scouts you play are good if they are left alone and the opposing team has a good healer for high dps parses.  Same thing with your zerker, if people all bunch up around you then you can pull off amazing parses, same as a warlock if left alone. 

Toe to toe those scout classes aren't great and make a small impact if the opposing team has a clue (they'd just hunt you down and kill you over and over if you're dps'ing or hindering much on people that matter -- or taunt you off of people that do if you are getting heals).  If people are picking easy kills for parses, they are irrelevant.

It really is a matter of who you have in your group and who you are against with on how parses end up for the classes you play.  Also in gears, it matters if you pick up the relic.  I notice that people with the highest parses are typically never picking up the relic or end up losing (or both, like your first screenshot)

Elifin:

My concept of time is pretty bad, but other than shortly after Tundra came out and all the 90s were in T4 bgs and all of that which killed BGS completely for a time, the T4 BG population is pretty decent now.  It isn't as it great as it was pre-DoV, but you can get a queue pretty much all the time until about midnight pacific time.  It's almost always the same people though except weekends.

People stay bunched up in most matches such as Smugglers where people fight for control of center alot of the game, Ganak where people protect the flag in base or have mass aoe fights in the center, Gears where people stay center alot of the time for control over the relic, ect. This allows zerkers to parse very high with 25%ma, 40% aoe auto, and 27% crit in t4 with a 2hander. Also the more you take dmg the more damage you deal so as a zerker doing your job and keeping aggro benefits the whole team as well as your dmg. Zerkers can and will consistantly parse very high as long as they have a decent healer to keep them alive through all of the aggro. My zerker always parses around 100k or higher... anyone who BGs in T4 knows that. As far as grabbing the relic, imo, that is the job of a paladin, healer, warlock, or anyone else that doesn't do much dmg or contribute well. My job as a zerker is to keep all aggro on me and kill the opposing team as quickly as possible. This allows our team to pick up the relic in gears, grab the flag in ganak, ect. It keeps our dps alive to do their job, it keeps our healers alive to do their job, it keeps their team dead so they cannot do their job, ect. I hate how so many people do not understand how important high dpsers are in bgs. If the enemy is dead constantly then they aren't alive to cause any complications for our team.

As far as my swash goes, my swash can completely remove enemy healers from the fight. We get a mezz, casting speed reduction, interrupt proc that constantly goes off, reuse speed debuff, 2 stackable snares (3 but only 2 stack), 2 mitigation debuffs, 1 stun, and two knockbacks. Swash contributes very well while dpsing as their dps combined with their debuffs are very useful. My swash generally does not parse as high as my other toons so I would agree he isn't around 100k+ every game, and the fact that he is an up close in your face type of scout, he does get taunted alot and has a higher chance to die... so yes as you said if the enemy team piles my swash everytime then they can keep my dps down and keep me out of the fight alot. Oh and you said something about going toe to toe... my swash has killed the best of the best dpsers 1 vs 1. Name anyone he can't beat and I'd be glad to record it and prove you wrong.

As far as my ranger goes you are either flat out lying or just haven't seen him much. My ranger is the highest dps in the bg about 99% of the time. Usually almost double the person under me. Also not sure what you mean about standing toe to toe... my ranger has 19.9% uncontested block, 76% avoidance, 58% mit, 21% pvp dmg reduction, 10% pvp crit mit, 90% dps mod, 58% haste, 15% crit, 12.5% pvp ma. Can easily stand toe to toe with any class. He has more avoidance than anyone I have every seen, certainly more than any tank, and has a perfect balance of offense and defense. He parses the way he does consistantly and is VERY durable if anyone decides to pile on him. Also ranger can dps the center of the bg from all the way back on the ledge by spawn due to the ranger aa ability "extension" so I never even need to get remotely close to danger unless I want to. There is also 1 ledge that is semi difficult to get to that most won't even come up after me at & when they do the miss the ledge repeatedly and die trying. Not only that but I stay ranged & out of taunt range. You claim my toons don't consistantly parse that high? Yeah it depends alot on the match. People have to consistantly come out and fight, both teams need healers so that people stay alive longer and more dps can be done, ect ect. Still my ranger is always top dmg. I don't pick up the relic or grab the flag in ganak ect because im busy dpsing. As I explained before every person I kill is 1 less person on the enemy team that can grab the relic, flag, ect. One less person that can kill our team, stun, stifle, mezz, ect us when the relic drops. Dps classes contribute as much or more than other classes they just do it in a different way.

I will take some more screenshots today to further prove what I just typed out. My ranger is consistantly top dps & consistantly parses around or over 100k. Would do this on my other toons as well but I lvl'd out of t4.

Edit: As far as "I notice that people with the highest parses are typically never picking up the relic or end up losing (or both, like your first screenshot)" goes... if you actually look at the screenshot closer you will see the opposing team had Eliat & Kalra who's heals won the game. We simply didn't have the heals to hold the relic long enough. Also it was 6 vs 5 most of the time, Blueberrykush came in at the end.

Bloodrage is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:29 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.