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Old 08-18-2012, 10:31 PM   #1
Kaldram

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I'm thinking of rolling one and I want to be Viable.

If not, give me an idea of what is?

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Old 08-18-2012, 10:37 PM   #2
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Any well played toon is viable in a raid, some are just more sought after then others.

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Old 08-18-2012, 10:40 PM   #3
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Mermut wrote:

Any well played toon is viable in a raid, some are just more sought after then others.

I was thinking ranger or Dirge.

Dirge will be more sough out, but ranger seems like it would be fun.

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Old 08-18-2012, 10:44 PM   #4
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Unfortunately right now rangers aren't a highly sought out class for high-end raiding.  I only know of 3 being used in the top 10 or so guilds. 

That doesn't mean you can't raid on one.  It's just that you have to be a lot better at your class than if you chose a class that is in more demand.

Typically the most desired classes are the bards, chanters and healers.  Just make sure you play a class you enjoy.  If you're gonna put the time and effort in to excel you can get a spot with any class...well, not zerker.  SMILEY

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Old 08-18-2012, 10:51 PM   #5
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Twyxx wrote:

Unfortunately right now rangers aren't a highly sought out class for high-end raiding.  I only know of 3 being used in the top 10 or so guilds. 

That doesn't mean you can't raid on one.  It's just that you have to be a lot better at your class than if you chose a class that is in more demand.

Typically the most desired classes are the bards, chanters and healers.  Just make sure you play a class you enjoy.  If you're gonna put the time and effort in to excel you can get a spot with any class...well, not zerker. 

Dirge it is. I know they are tough to play but I guess they have decent dps potential and are really good support :3

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Old 08-21-2012, 10:35 AM   #6
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Could always make a ranger just for fun.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:20 AM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

Could always make a ranger just for fun.

I might if I go play on Nagafen.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #8
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It's sad actually. A travesty! I have a buddy (ranger) that parses well over 500k consistantly in HM Drunder and Plane of War. They can stay out of the fight and don't die as often. I don't understand why my guid, and many others, don't want rangers anymore. Seems like there was always 1-2 scout groups and now we roll with 2 mage groups. It's a shame because I would LOVE to raid with my ranger once again.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:39 AM   #9
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ZUES wrote:

It's sad actually. A travesty! I have a buddy (ranger) that parses well over 500k consistantly in HM Drunder and Plane of War. They can stay out of the fight and don't die as often. I don't understand why my guid, and many others, don't want rangers anymore. Seems like there was always 1-2 scout groups and now we roll with 2 mage groups. It's a shame because I would LOVE to raid with my ranger once again.

No Threat transfer

Less DPS than Assassins/Mages (In general, always the odd exception)

No utility (Brigand debuffs etc)

Why take a ranger when you can use an Assassin/Swashy/Brigand or a Mage dps.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #10
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Kaldram wrote:

Twyxx wrote:

Unfortunately right now rangers aren't a highly sought out class for high-end raiding.  I only know of 3 being used in the top 10 or so guilds. 

That doesn't mean you can't raid on one.  It's just that you have to be a lot better at your class than if you chose a class that is in more demand.

Typically the most desired classes are the bards, chanters and healers.  Just make sure you play a class you enjoy.  If you're gonna put the time and effort in to excel you can get a spot with any class...well, not zerker. 

Dirge it is. I know they are tough to play but I guess they have decent dps potential and are really good support :3

Actually, I don't think either Bard class is all that hard to play ... IMO, either of the two chanter classes is more difficult.There seem to be a lot more Dirges than Troubies, so keep that in mind as well.

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Old 08-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #11
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Freejazzlive wrote:

Kaldram wrote:

Twyxx wrote:

Unfortunately right now rangers aren't a highly sought out class for high-end raiding.  I only know of 3 being used in the top 10 or so guilds. 

That doesn't mean you can't raid on one.  It's just that you have to be a lot better at your class than if you chose a class that is in more demand.

Typically the most desired classes are the bards, chanters and healers.  Just make sure you play a class you enjoy.  If you're gonna put the time and effort in to excel you can get a spot with any class...well, not zerker. 

Dirge it is. I know they are tough to play but I guess they have decent dps potential and are really good support :3

Actually, I don't think either Bard class is all that hard to play ... IMO, either of the two chanter classes is more difficult.There seem to be a lot more Dirges than Troubies, so keep that in mind as well.

You're crazy. My raid main has been a dirge for four years and now I'm raiding with a coercer. It doesn't even compare. Dirge is by far the hardest class I've raided with (in terms of doing your job and actually making the parse).

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Old 08-21-2012, 12:28 PM   #12
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The problem with rangers is they need so much help (i.e ideal group setup / gear) to make good for only ranger standards and give nothing in return (in regards to buffs to the group/raid and debuffs).

Rangers have three debuffs, noxious enfeeblement, Ensare, and snipe..which basically come standard to all scouts classes (at least the last two)

Your laughable attempt at de-hate is your bird which is a hate siphon *lawlz* that disperses the hate amongst the group and not specifically to the tank. Your temp group buff is worthless, you basically give your group accuracy (which is a worthless broken stat) and weapon skills (which is another worthless stat)

As Neiloch liked to say and I agree with, is there's a belief that devs put too much weight on us being *ranged* which is an absolute joke. Only half of our combat arts are *ranged* (actually it maybe less tbh haven't checked in while tho) Also the ranger is the only pain in the butt scout that has to always be in the perfect sweet spot for dps. (i.e having all of your CA's available while ensureing your bow is your primary means of melee attack....oh and btw have fun with the so many stupid variable hit boxes mobs have.

I could prolly go on and on and on as to why not play a ranger, but at las I do so myself and I do so very well with my guild. (that being said my guild is WW 87, so by no means is that saying anything at all/ and my guild and I are definitely NOT high end, not even close.) but to sum it up nice I'll just qoute Errror.

No Threat transfer

Less DPS than Assassins/Mages (In general, always the odd exception)

No utility (Brigand debuffs etc)

Why take a ranger when you can use an Assassin/Swashy/Brigand or a Mage dps.

Pretty much this. /thread

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Old 08-22-2012, 10:46 PM   #13
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I personally think there's a few reasons why rangers are almost never recruited. (1) Rangers are a really fun class to play and therefore if they are in a raiding guild, they stay there (ie don't quit) (2) They are just pure DPS, and not any better than other T1 DPS from Assassins, Wizards, BLs, etc, that have slightly better utility, so if a DPS slot comes available, they're fighting a loosing battle against these classes for the spot. You can get in raiding as a ranger, or any class for that matter, it's just a little harder to proove yourself worthy. I'm in a right pickle if I ever decide I can raid. I have a ranger main and a zerker alt!! But hey, I enjoy both classes.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:19 PM   #14
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It took me literally years to prove myself on my ranger to get to the high end I am now. there is only 3 reasons I am in a good raiding guild that aren't just luck or opinion based.

-I show up

-I do what i'm told (e.g. dont screw up scripts)

-I do T1 DPS and don't slack DPS on trash/easy fights

That's it.

Two of those reasons could be done on ANY class (but not every player). Third one on several classes that have more to offer outside of DPS.

I wish I could remember who said it, but one summary of a ranger I heard once was something like "A well played ranger is wasted talent"

And yes I still believe the devs mistakingly see 'range' has a much more useful aspect than it really is. I have never EVER seen someone say 'well lets get the ranger instead of the *other top DPS class here* because they are a chain wearer who can do a lot of DPS at range'

PS: In before hidden away to Ranger section.

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Old 08-23-2012, 05:52 AM   #15
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I find I'm semi desirable for UD groups, but any caster T1 DPS is just as useful
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Old 08-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #16
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Here's the thing, you want to raid end game content? Anyone who is decent can do that on any class. There are always guilds out there that are doing SS raid content who are just looking for bodies. You want to raid end game content with a hardcore guild? That's a different story. A ranger is not your best choice to try to get into that type of guild. Look around at the websites of the hardcore guilds on your server and see what they are looking for. Roll something that more than one of them is looking for and you should be able to work your way up and apply eventually.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #17
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We run 2 rangers on roster, and they do respectable DPS.  I respect the players we have and I wouldn't give them up, however from a pure X's and O's standpoint, yes I'd prefer equally geared / talented beastlords in those same raid slots.

We however have not been able to find talented beastlords as like maybe 1:300 has half a clue on how to play the class.

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Old 08-23-2012, 12:00 PM   #18
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[email protected] wrote:

It took me literally years to prove myself on my ranger to get to the high end I am now. there is only 3 reasons I am in a good raiding guild that aren't just luck or opinion based.

-I show up

-I do what i'm told (e.g. dont screw up scripts)

-I do T1 DPS and don't slack DPS on trash/easy fights

That's it.

Two of those reasons could be done on ANY class (but not every player). Third one on several classes that have more to offer outside of DPS.

I wish I could remember who said it, but one summary of a ranger I heard once was something like "A well played ranger is wasted talent"

And yes I still believe the devs mistakingly see 'range' has a much more useful aspect than it really is. I have never EVER seen someone say 'well lets get the ranger instead of the *other top DPS class here* because they are a chain wearer who can do a lot of DPS at range'

PS: In before hidden away to Ranger section.

I brought six other very good players with me that played desirable classes.  So they agreed to try and fit me in. 

I established my value because I spend/spent an inordinate amount of time perfecting my craft and making sure I play at a consistently high level.  Even with that though, I'm on alts quite a bit too as I want to do what's best for my raid.  That's why this coming expansion is kind of a last chance for them to fix ranger for me.  If they don't I'll play a class that isn't neglected.

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Old 08-25-2012, 03:05 PM   #19
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Kaldram wrote:

I was thinking ranger or Dirge.

Dirge will be more sough out, but ranger seems like it would be fun.

Ranger is more fun. For what it's worth, every class is used in end game raiding and in the almost 8 years I've been playing I've never been able to not get a raid slot no matter what class I play.

Just play what you want, you will get a raid spot if you're good. Don't let anyone know you have a dirge alt or people will try to push you into playing it.

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Old 08-25-2012, 03:37 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

 Don't let anyone know you have a dirge alt or people will try to push you into playing it.

True story!

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Old 08-27-2012, 12:34 PM   #21
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Agree with Twyxx. I now raid with my ranger after being a long time Coercer and Troub raider. But if you are a ranger, DO NOT have a high level utility class available or you will find yourself being asked to play that utility as much if not more then your ranger. Not that I'm not willing to help "on occasion" when a Coercer or Troub is needed, but my main is my Ranger and that's my toon of choice. If you show an overt amount of willingness to play your alt utility you may eventually find that they have become your defacto main.

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Old 08-27-2012, 08:52 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Kaldram wrote:

I was thinking ranger or Dirge.

Dirge will be more sough out, but ranger seems like it would be fun.

Ranger is more fun. For what it's worth, every class is used in end game raiding and in the almost 8 years I've been playing I've never been able to not get a raid slot no matter what class I play.

Just play what you want, you will get a raid spot if you're good. Don't let anyone know you have a dirge alt or people will try to push you into playing it.

You sound like me right before SF came out when I finally gave in and betrayed after playing as a ranger from launch.  But after being guilded and raiding with the then class dev Aeralik for almost a year.  And having him constantly saying how he was never going to fix rangers (ya he was the dev that raided as an assassin) I gave up.

Everything you guys talk about and suggest about giving rangers equal utility to make them worth using has been asked for 5 . . 6 . . . 7 years now.  With DoV they have done better and evened out rangers with other DPS classes.  But they still have no clue on what to do about utility and must all have bot programs making arrows to drain plat from the gain.

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Old 08-28-2012, 06:50 PM   #23
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Crychtonn wrote:

Everything you guys talk about and suggest about giving rangers equal utility to make them worth using has been asked for 5 . . 6 . . . 7 years now.  With DoV they have done better and evened out rangers with other DPS classes.  But they still have no clue on what to do about utility and must all have bot programs making arrows to drain plat from the gain.

That was my thought too.  And although some posters mentioned that the perceived advantage of range doesn't exist in raiding, it most definitely exists when soloing.  While an experienced player knows that if they want to raid with an assassin, all they have to do is make a ranger for leveling then betray to assassin, I doubt if that solution will suffice for the devs.

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:15 AM   #24
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there is a need for range dps in raids specially for the harder encounters with multiple mob spawns and such where melee dps has to run around and looses a lot of damage while range dps can just pivot to the adds/name/whatever.   also there are mobs that don't allow melee range damage because of aoe's/effects/whatever.  

  the problem is that rangers don't do as much damage at range as mages do.  that's what needs to be fixed, rangers should be a range scout not a melee scout with the option to go range.    all melee ca's should be abolished on rangers except for like 2 or maybe.

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Old 08-29-2012, 04:06 AM   #25
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Honestly if SOE wants to revive the ranger class it wouldn't be hard at all. With some simple changes like the following;

Turn Double Arrow AA into Endless Quiver = 100% ammo conservation.Fix all ammo problems - as qouted by Errror1)Slightly increase our damage.2)Add a group wide damage proc to Focus Aim3)Increase the range of our *melee* CA's that are 5m range to 10m universally4)Make Cat Like Reflexes proc a positional dehate instead.Ranger class fixed.Two Cents,From a Ranger.

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Old 08-29-2012, 07:47 AM   #26
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Davngr1 wrote:

 rangers should be a range scout not a melee scout with the option to go range.  all melee ca's should be abolished on rangers except for like 2 or maybe.

Ranger is for now a range scout with option to *also* go melee. That's good.

I don't want the ranger becoming an archer.

What seems missing for you is a focus or AA, an *option*, where range dps is increased while greatly decreasing melee dps.

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Old 08-29-2012, 03:11 PM   #27
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If you want to do proper, T1 DPS as a ranger melee and range aren't options, they're requirements. You will never do top DPS just doing one or the other unless you in some sort of freak scenario or comparing yourself to terrible players. If anything they should be made to lean more on being an archer because there are already 4 other high melee DPS scout classes in the game. We don't need a 5th.

Our best hope is what ever they decide to pile on next in terms of prestige/AA skills will further fix us. They aren't going to go back and change old stuff unless its part of some game wide overhaul where ALL the classes get stuff changed.

I'd LOVE if they made two lines/options/advanced classes that let rangers pick a DnD style arcane archer or tempest. 

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #28
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Vifarc wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

 rangers should be a range scout not a melee scout with the option to go range.  all melee ca's should be abolished on rangers except for like 2 or maybe.

Ranger is for now a range scout with option to *also* go melee. That's good.

I don't want the ranger becoming an archer.

What seems missing for you is a focus or AA, an *option*, where range dps is increased while greatly decreasing melee dps.

As Neiloch said, we are not a range scout with the option to also go melee. When it comes to ranged, we are just better then other scouts on pure range fights, but as we bring nothing to the raid other then dps, and doing any fight where you can't get into range to use melee CA's, you're much better off just bringing another caster in place of that ranger.

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Old 08-29-2012, 08:56 PM   #29
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Davngr1 wrote:

 the problem is that rangers don't do as much damage at range as mages do.  that's what needs to be fixed, rangers should be a range scout not a melee scout with the option to go range.    all melee ca's should be abolished on rangers except for like 2 or maybe.

[email protected] wrote:

As Neiloch said, we are not a range scout with the option to also go melee. When it comes to ranged, we are just better then other scouts on pure range fights, but as we bring nothing to the raid other then dps, and doing any fight where you can't get into range to use melee CA's, you're much better off just bringing another caster in place of that ranger.

Well we know for a fact they can institute damage bonus determined by range to target, that's how the ranger epic weapon originally worked. 10% bow damage increase if under 25 meters, 20% if under 5 meters. Before they just made it a flat 20% increase in bow damage.

So why not something similar but for being 15+ meters away from a target and for all ranged attacks, not just auto attack?

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Old 09-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #30
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Ahh rangers. Since EQ1 they've had a certain... reputation. Here are a few of my favorite pearls of wisdom:

Q: Why does it rain so much in the Karanas?A: Because every time a ranger dies, Karana sheds a tear.Q: How can you tell a ranger tried to break into your house??A: Your cat is camping his corpse.Q: Why don't rangers get FD?A: The fall to the ground would kill them.Q: How do you know when a ranger has been tanking?A: They're usually standing naked at their bind spot.Q: Why do Rangers get some of the best haste items in the game?A: So they can die faster.Q: Why is ranger armor green and brown?A: Green so they can find their corpse in the dirt and brown so they can find their corpse on the grass.Q: Whats the shortest Ranger joke ever?A: LFG.Q: What is the difference between a ranger and a corpse?A: 30 seconds of combat.Q: What did one ranger say to the other at the soulbinder?A: Do you come here often?Q: Why did the Ranger cross the road ?A: Because the chicken kicked his butt.Q: What did Emperor Crush say when the 100th Ranger tried to solo him?A: DING...!!!!!Q: What do you call a Ranger with over 356 days of play time?A: MasochisticQ: Why do Clerics not heal Rangers?A: It's more mana-efficient to res them.

Q: Did you hear about the Ranger who was really tough and was always wanted in groups?A: -And you never will either.Q: How many rangers does it take to change a light bulb.A: None, the bulb was still cooling and killed them instantly.Q: Why do they call them rangers?A: Because no one would play a "RezMe".Q: Did you hear about the ranger who killed Nagafen?A: He got caught in his throat on the way down and he choked to death.

A_Random_Guildie says, "What does this drop?"You say, "rangers"A Ranger walks into a bar.... LOADING PLEASE WAIT.

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