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Old 06-05-2012, 01:57 PM   #1
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I’m not sure about others but having to go to house to swop out AA lines is a waste of my time if you happen to be out about harvesting & adventuring and want the maximum AA for both.

Also, it just like the Tradeskill armor…why can’t we benefit from both? Why not add a separate TS armor tab for Tradeskill armor that we can maybe check to be in effect or not if out an about?

This having to swop out is tedious and one of biggest things I really hate about this game because I have bag slots filled with this and sure could more room when adventuring.

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Old 06-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #2
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I agree with this...In Vanguard they had a separate clothing set for your crafting armor and when you started crafting or harvesting it put your relevant clothes on for what you were doing.

And yes AA should be separate for crafting since you shouldn't be punished just because you enjoy crafting as well as adventuring...

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Old 06-05-2012, 04:28 PM   #3
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This sounds too much like Vanguard and therefore makes too much sense.  But I support it.

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Old 06-05-2012, 05:25 PM   #4
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Another solution would be to bump the AA cap to add 40 points. Each tab only allows so many points. and the cap is 40 below the sum of each tabs max points. As it is now we have to reset one aa tree, spend it in tradeskill, do our tradeskill stuff, reset the tradeskill aa tree, then respend in the original tree.

EDIT: changed 50 to 40. The difference is 40 points not 50. Sorry for the hasty post.

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Old 06-05-2012, 05:36 PM   #5
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Or you can use a mirror of reflected achivements to store the profile.

Someone said they were being punished/penalized but that is not the case there are tradeoffs, you can trim enough points off your adventuring stuff to have a perfectly fine build for solo/harvesting with your tradeskill tab fully populated and have a raid/group profile as well. The first thing that would happen after they do this are the demands for tradeskill to give AA experience.

The tradeoff is like wanting a compact car that gets great gas mileage to perform like a performance car and still get the same MPG.

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Old 06-05-2012, 05:43 PM   #6
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I agree there are tradeoffs. BUT, it makes no sense to me that you get 320 aa points total. and the ability to spend 360 (add up the max on each tab). Just like any other game that has any kind of a point system, there are tradeoffs, but there is never the inability to gain the maximum. Which is essentially what exists here. You can spend 360 points but can only gain 320. Take the tradeskill tab out of the equation completely.

What would you think if the max aa was 320 but you could only spend 280 with the current adventurind AA tabs? Would you still say there are tradeoffs?

EDIT: corrected numbers and forgotten words. I shouldn't post on vacation.

And to add: The trade off is built into the trees themselves. Each tree maxing each line takes so many points. But you'can only spend so much in each line. So you have to choose your path/tree. That should be the tradeoff. Not that IN addition to whether to adventure or tradeskill.

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Old 06-05-2012, 08:33 PM   #7
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It isn't like this hasn't been asked for before, even before tradeskill AA existed.

One of the tricky problems is how do you earn tradeskill AA if it isn't the same as adventuring AA? Right now we're expected to get our 40 points from tradeskill quests. Should we get it from that still, or from making items? Should we earn tradeskill AA (only) when we reach 92 and cap our xp earnings? (personally I think that would be a bad idea)

When your going to propose something like this try and think of the obvious problems and come up with at least one solution. It makes the idea sound more plausable or at least it discourages me from making posts just like this one.

As for a seperate tab for tadeskill equipment: sure. Why not? Actually I can think of a few why nots depending on how it gets implimented.

Did you know that casting mechanics get used for crafting? Each time you use a counter it counts as if you cast a spell. Also if you have ability reuse modifiers they apparently work on counters. So spell casters with lots of ability reuse mods actually make better crafters! Adventuring gear that affects tradeskills! Would this stop working if there was a tradeskill gear tab? Would we lose power regen from gear? (not that there is much out there) Would our stats be figured off of the tradeskill tab while we're doing crafting? Would tradeskill stats always be in effect? Would tradeskill gear affect our adventuring stats? (seriously, some tradeskill gear is semi-effective for adventuring) There are some interesting questions to answer when your introducing a new equipment tab that would actually do something other than alter appearance.

As a side note: the only peice of tradeskill gear I bother equipping now is the shawl. Everything else is in my bags but it isn't worth the bother of equipping it. Now for some serious harvesting I'll equip the shawl and...umm...maybe the cloak. Oh, and the unicorn if I don't want to fly around the area. Try it, you'll find that crafting goes more or less the same with a full set of gear or just the shawl.

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Old 06-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #8
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Personally, I wish they would add in 40 more aa points.  They could set it so that only 320 could go to adventuring stuff and 40 to the tradeskill tab if they wanted to, or they could let you add it whereever, I don't care which.

The reasons I would like this are:

1. I'm at 320 aa's already and hate it when my aa's are maxed out because it discourages me from playing and "wasting experience"

2. It would be more convenient than having to go to the aa respec mirror every time I want to go harvest.

3. I like pie.  

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Old 06-06-2012, 01:00 AM   #9
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I don’t see why we can’t earn separate AA similar to adventuring but in crafting and with TS quest’s that would hopefully award more TS AA but just like adventuring there can be a max amount spent until you reach a certain level.

For example every 20 levels we can spend 10 more points

10pts up until level 20

20pts up until level 40

30pts up until level 60

40pts up until level 80

50pts up until level 100

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Old 06-06-2012, 01:03 AM   #10
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Cinnimon wrote:

I don’t see why we can’t earn separate AA similar to adventuring but in crafting and with TS quest’s that would hopefully award more TS AA but just like adventuring there can be a max amount spent until you reach a certain level.

For example every 20 levels we can spend 10 more points

10pts up until level 20

20pts up until level 40

30pts up until level 60

40pts up until level 80

50pts up until level 100

So like prestige points, which operate outside of the 320? Kinda like this idea.

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Old 06-06-2012, 02:32 AM   #11
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Cinnimon wrote:

I don’t see why we can’t earn separate AA similar to adventuring but in crafting and with TS quest’s that would hopefully award more TS AA but just like adventuring there can be a max amount spent until you reach a certain level.

For example every 20 levels we can spend 10 more points

10pts up until level 20

20pts up until level 40

30pts up until level 60

40pts up until level 80

50pts up until level 100

Probably with this is that the tradeskill AA aren't just for tradeskilling, they're also useful for harvesting.

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Old 06-06-2012, 01:23 PM   #12
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Cinnimon wrote:

I don’t see why we can’t earn separate AA similar to adventuring but in crafting and with TS quest’s that would hopefully award more TS AA but just like adventuring there can be a max amount spent until you reach a certain level.

For example every 20 levels we can spend 10 more points

10pts up until level 20

20pts up until level 40

30pts up until level 60

40pts up until level 80

50pts up until level 100

It could also be done 5pts for every tier so players can feel they have earned something to spend in the Tradeskill AA Tree is also another suggestionas well  too.

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Old 06-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #13
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decator666 wrote:

I agree with this...In Vanguard they had a separate clothing set for your crafting armor and when you started crafting or harvesting it put your relevant clothes on for what you were doing.

And yes AA should be separate for crafting since you shouldn't be punished just because you enjoy crafting as well as adventuring...

it is not 'punishment' with AoD you can earn a max of 320 AAs how many you choose to allocate between adventure and tradeskill are up to you. the points exist so you can make choices yet here you are complaining because you have choice and you dont like the consequences of your choice.

*if* you put 300 pts in adventure and 20 into tradeskill that is your choice.

*if* you put 320 pts in adventure and 0 into tradeskill that is your choice.

*if* you put 280 pts in adventure and 40 into tradeskill that is your choice.

you can pick and choose but no matter what you cant have everything you want.

go get yourself an AA mirror and setup a crafting and 'serious adventure' template so you can alternate between them.

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Old 06-07-2012, 10:03 PM   #14
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Cinnimon wrote:

I’m not sure about others but having to go to house to swop out AA lines is a waste of my time if you happen to be out about harvesting & adventuring and want the maximum AA for both.

Also, it just like the Tradeskill armor…why can’t we benefit from both? Why not add a separate TS armor tab for Tradeskill armor that we can maybe check to be in effect or not if out an about?

This having to swop out is tedious and one of biggest things I really hate about this game because I have bag slots filled with this and sure could more room when adventuring.

This is a great plan. In addition to the problems you talk about, it would make all the nonsense about tradeskill AA when trying to reset profession go away. We should earn AA for ts separately from adventuring which would virtually end any issue with profession start overs.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #15
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General_Info wrote:

decator666 wrote:

I agree with this...In Vanguard they had a separate clothing set for your crafting armor and when you started crafting or harvesting it put your relevant clothes on for what you were doing.

And yes AA should be separate for crafting since you shouldn't be punished just because you enjoy crafting as well as adventuring...

it is not 'punishment' with AoD you can earn a max of 320 AAs how many you choose to allocate between adventure and tradeskill are up to you. the points exist so you can make choices yet here you are complaining because you have choice and you dont like the consequences of your choice.

*if* you put 300 pts in adventure and 20 into tradeskill that is your choice.

*if* you put 320 pts in adventure and 0 into tradeskill that is your choice.

*if* you put 280 pts in adventure and 40 into tradeskill that is your choice.

you can pick and choose but no matter what you cant have everything you want.

go get yourself an AA mirror and setup a crafting and 'serious adventure' template so you can alternate between them.

I'm not complaining just adding feedback to a topic.

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Old 06-08-2012, 12:30 PM   #16
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(( Adventuring levels and Crafting levels do not come in the same "pot". We can level them separately. Those players who have interest in only one of the two, can ignore the other, and those who enjoy both, can level in both. This is a good design. The very idea that you would have to earn 184 levels and then split them between Adventuring and Crafting would have been a silly idea. The idea of having, say, 174 levels, and needing to stop at 82 adventuring or at 82 crafting (or taking both to 87) would be an even sillier idea. Thank goodness no-one went for an idea like a combined pool for levels.

Yet that is what we have for AAs right now. A combined pool.

For those players who are pure adventurers who have no interest in crafting, there is not a problem - they just ignore the crafting AAs just like they ignore crafting levels. The equivalent can be said for pure crafter players. But for those of us who play BOTH as adventurers and crafters, we have to accept not being able to ever be simualtaneously capped in the two separate spheres of the game.

What is the result? In my case, it means that all my characters max their adventuring AAs and just do not ever bother with crafting AAs. I will not accept being 40AA weaker as an adventurer, competing with 320AA adventurers for groups and raids, because that would make me noticeably weaker. Therefore the crafting AAs may as well not exist for players like myself. This is why 8 of my 9 characters, all of whom are 92/320 adventurers and 92 crafters, will never have crafting AAs in the current setup. The only one that does is the one who basically never adventures anymore.

As for those saying "just use the AA mirror", the answer to that is just: No. The AA mirror is an incredibly awful design, and extremely fiddly to set up and very annoying to use, not to mention, I would have to use it multiple times per day on multiple characters, and every time the AAs changed it would cost a fortune in money and a lot of time to setup all 9 mirrors with 2 different profiles yet again.

The actual answer is, and always has been, to have separate AA pools for Adventuring and Crafting.

I don't care how they do it. I don't care how current points are allocated to those pools. A one-off choice to each character would be one way, but really whatever way it were done, it would be fine by me, as I would just grind whatever I needed on all the characters to hit the new cap ))

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Old 06-08-2012, 12:40 PM   #17
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I'm sure the poster above me makes some great posts, however I'll never be motivated to try to read orange font on black backgrounds...

Regarding this thread, I fully support changing the tradeskill AA system to be more like the adventure prestige system.  I'm not sure we need to auto-unlock the points though.   I would prefer it be unlocked via tradeskill type achievements instead.

Anyone can level a TS class to 92.  But the AA should come from completing the different factions, from making 1000 items.  Making 500 unique items, and other types of achievements.

A system like that would be a good tradeskill system.  Please do not encourage them to make it auto points for breathing.

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Old 06-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #18
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

    For those players who are pure adventurers who have no interest in crafting, there is not a problem - they just ignore the crafting AAs just like they ignore crafting levels. The equivalent can be said for pure crafter players. But for those of us who play BOTH as adventurers and crafters, we have to accept not being able to ever be simualtaneously capped in the two separate spheres of the game.    What is the result? In my case, it means that all my characters max their adventuring AAs and just do not ever bother with crafting AAs. I will not accept being 40AA weaker as an adventurer, competing with 320AA adventurers for groups and raids, because that would make me noticeably weaker. Therefore the crafting AAs may as well not exist for players like myself. This is why 8 of my 9 characters, all of whom are 92/320 adventurers and 92 crafters, will never have crafting AAs in the current setup. The only one that does is the one who basically never adventures anymore.

how is it bad to have choice? we have a certain cap on each tab for a reason just like we have a global cap on how many points we can spend. remeber that when AOD came out no new combat AA lines were released and the global cap was raised by 20. The whole point of the system is you pick and choose what is right for you, being able to get everything would defeat the purpose.

when you allocate points you are choosing your 'strengths' if you put all your points into combat and you miss out on the crafting bonuses that is your own choice and your own fault. if you put 20 points into TS and 300 into combat sure you'll be less 'powerful' then someone who put them all in combat, but you will be better at TS stuff.

It's a system of pick and choose. you have to choose between one thing or the other. a perfectly viable solution already exists if you have to go to the mirror plenty of times that is your own choice for trying to bake your cake and eat it too.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:16 PM   #19
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General_Info wrote:

It's a system of pick and choose .... you have to choose between one thing or the other.

(( We all know what the current system is, but thank you for summarizing it back to us again ))

General_Info wrote:

how is it bad to have choice?

(( We want a choice, but we want the choice set out differently from the way it is in the current system.

The feedback is:

Please SOE, give us the choice to choose our crafting AAs from a crafting AA pool, and to choose our adventuring AAs from an adventuring AA pool. Keep the two AA pools separately, in the same way that adventuring levelling and crafting levelling are separate.

We would like to be able to select AAs in both independently, and would like NOT to be forced to choose between adventuring and crafting.

For me, I would prioritize this for developer effort over most other current issues in the game.

Of course, you may not agree, but that was my feedback, you can make your own ))

General_Info wrote:

a perfectly viable solution already exists if you have to go to the mirror

(( That may be your opinion, but many other players do not agree, and I am one of them.

We would like crafting AA and adventuring AA to be entirely separated from eachother. Such a change would be loved by almost all players who have characters who are both adventurers and crafters, and would have no effect at all on players who did not play in one of the two spheres ))

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:31 PM   #20
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

General_Info wrote:

how is it bad to have choice?

(( We want a choice, but we want the choice set out differently from the way it is in the current system.

The feedback is:

Please SOE, give us the choice to choose our crafting AAs from a crafting AA pool, and to choose our adventuring AAs from an adventuring AA pool. Keep the two AA pools separately, in the same way that adventuring levelling and crafting levelling are separate.

We would like to be able to select AAs in both independently, and would like NOT to be forced to choose between adventuring and crafting.

For me, I would prioritize this for developer effort over most other current issues in the game.

Of course, you may not agree, but that was my feedback, you can make your own )

ok then anwser me this if they were seperate what caps would you expect to get for both types? if the total is no more then it currently is you are asking to control how other people spend their points for your own piece of mind. for example you might be happy if it was hardcoded so you had a 20TS AAs total and a 300 adventure AA total but you would just be removing choice from other people to mix the two together.

you are't forced to choose between one and the other you are forced to pick and choose abilities by your desire and not by style of play. you can pick up the double harvest AA if you so choose but that means between 1-5 less points to spend elsewhere just like every other AA.

I'd support Tradeskillers getting AA xp through tradeskilling but not a seperation of AAs.

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Old 06-08-2012, 09:46 PM   #21
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General_Info wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

General_Info wrote:

how is it bad to have choice?

(( We want a choice, but we want the choice set out differently from the way it is in the current system.

The feedback is:

Please SOE, give us the choice to choose our crafting AAs from a crafting AA pool, and to choose our adventuring AAs from an adventuring AA pool. Keep the two AA pools separately, in the same way that adventuring levelling and crafting levelling are separate.

We would like to be able to select AAs in both independently, and would like NOT to be forced to choose between adventuring and crafting.

For me, I would prioritize this for developer effort over most other current issues in the game.

Of course, you may not agree, but that was my feedback, you can make your own ))

ok then anwser me this if they were seperate what caps would you expect to get for both types? if the total is no more then it currently is you are asking to control how other people spend their points for your own piece of mind. for example you might be happy if it was hardcoded so you had a 20TS AAs total and a 300 adventure AA total but you would just be removing choice from other people to mix the two together.

you are't forced to choose between one and the other you are forced to pick and choose abilities by your desire and not by style of play. you can pick up the double harvest AA if you so choose but that means between 1-5 less points to spend elsewhere just like every other AA.

I'd support Tradeskillers getting AA xp through tradeskilling but not a seperation of AAs.

(( A good question!

There are many ways.

But here is my first stab at answering this. This is what *I* would do, were I to be SOE-for-the-day:

(1) Leave adventuring AAs as they are, with the cap of 320. However, the tradeskill AAs cannot be chosen from this pool of AA. This would therefore mean *zero* change for adventurers who are not crafters.

(2) Create a crafting AA pool of 20. Allow these to be gained in some way via crafting Allow AAs from this pool to be spent on Crafting AAs from the Crafting AA tab.

These would mean the Level/AA cap for Adventuring would remain 92/320, and there would be a separate Level/AA cap for Crafting which for now would be 92/20. This could of course be added to in future updates/expansions, but *crucially*, crafting updates and adventuring updates would be separate (and they do not even have to be updated at the same update).

It would then leave two issues to be sorted out by SOE:

(a) How would current AA pool be split between the two pools when the system is introduced? The simplest answer would be: give each player a one-time choice. SOE may put restrictions in as they see fit, like you must be at least a level X crafter to put any into the crafting pool, or whatever they see fit. Minor details, frankly, because (b) below is the one that really matters.

(b) How would crafters then gain crafting AA? This is especially poignant for existing capped crafters who have done the quests. There would need to be some way dreamt up for doing this. This thread is not about that, and would be a separate exercise in itself.

This direction would be wonderful for crafters, whether they are "pure crafters" or "adventurer/crafters" like me. They would of course have zero impact at all on adventurers who do not craft.

And these are just the ideas off the top of my head - I'm sure SOE will create more!

The first step is the separate of AAs. And that is what I want to see. Hence my feedback on this thread asking for precisely that ))

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Old 06-09-2012, 07:30 AM   #22
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

((1) Leave adventuring AAs as they are, with the cap of 320. However, the tradeskill AAs cannot be chosen from this pool of AA. This would therefore mean *zero* change for adventurers who are not crafters.

(2) Create a crafting AA pool of 20. Allow these to be gained in some way via crafting Allow AAs from this pool to be spent on Crafting AAs from the Crafting AA tab.

These would mean the Level/AA cap for Adventuring would remain 92/320, and there would be a separate Level/AA cap for Crafting which for now would be 92/20. This could of course be added to in future updates/expansions, but *crucially*, crafting updates and adventuring updates would be separate (and they do not even have to be updated at the same update).

so basically you want a seperation as an excuse to get more points out of the system what you are asking for is only partially different then when aod came out they added 20 points to allocate to ether and here you are asking for seperation and another 20 points. so you want the 320 points of a current pure combat spec plus 20 points for tradeskill spec.

why should you be able to have it both ways and why should the devs make us collectively more combat powerful?

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:03 AM   #23
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General_Info wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(1) Leave adventuring AAs as they are, with the cap of 320. However, the tradeskill AAs cannot be chosen from this pool of AA. This would therefore mean *zero* change for adventurers who are not crafters.

(2) Create a crafting AA pool of 20. Allow these to be gained in some way via crafting Allow AAs from this pool to be spent on Crafting AAs from the Crafting AA tab.

These would mean the Level/AA cap for Adventuring would remain 92/320, and there would be a separate Level/AA cap for Crafting which for now would be 92/20. This could of course be added to in future updates/expansions, but *crucially*, crafting updates and adventuring updates would be separate (and they do not even have to be updated at the same update).

so basically you want a seperation as an excuse to get more points out of the system what you are asking for is only partially different then when aod came out they added 20 points to allocate to ether and here you are asking for seperation and another 20 points. so you want the 320 points of a current pure combat spec plus 20 points for tradeskill spec.

why should you be able to have it both ways and why should the devs make us collectively more combat powerful?

(( You say "as an excuse"? You imply that the purpose of those like myself who want AA separating is just "an excuse" to have the cap raised? If you think that, you have entirely misread the feedback, and are attributing negative motives where they do not exist.

You say "make us more combat powerful"? This is factually incorrect. Combat power is measured from adventuring level, adventuring AA, spell/CA levels and gear alone. It is not affected by crafting level. It will not be affected by crafting AA either. Adding more crafting AA, whether it be 20, 50 or even 500, will not affect combat power one iota. And you know it.

Encounters (solo, group and raid) are balanced against a cap of 92/320 adventurers. The assumption in balancing will be for the most common case where the character has spent those 320 AA in adventuring skills. Which is what most people actually do for anything challenging anyway.

The only way you are implying someone is 'more powerful', is where a crafter/adventurer who has 320 AA has currently accepted being a weaker adventurer than everyone else by sacrificing some of their adventuring AA to use in crafting, and under my suggestion, they would no longer need to sacrifice adventuring power compared to other adventurers in this way. This is precisely the situation I want to have remedied, and I see it as a correction to a problem, not a power increase. The current situation punishes adventurers who happen to also be crafters on the same character. I would like every adventurer to be able to spend 320 AA in adventuring AA, and separate to that, every crafter should be able to spend (for example) 20 AA in crafting AA, and the two spheres be entirely unconnected.

The fact that an adventurer/crafter would then potentially have 340 AA if you add the two spheres together, is entirely irrelevant. That is like saying my monk having 184 levels is more powerful as an adventurer than a level 92 monk who does not craft, it is poppycock. Again, you know this already.

When I go LFG later, I won't be shouting "184/320 Monk-Carpenter LFG", and if I did, people would laugh at me (quite rightly too). The spheres are separate. I'll stick with "92/320 Monk LFG", regardless of whether I have 92 carpenter levels as well, and regardless of whether I might in the future have 20 crafting AA as well.

=====

The purpose of this thread is not to cause any change to adventuring at all. It is to separate crafting AA off in the same way as crafting levels are separated from adventuring levels. Has this singular point got through? I have repeated this three times now, what the aim of this feedback is. (That doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but summing up the motives behind the change as something entirely different from what they are is not helping anyone).

My hopes are:

- Create a separate pool for crafting AA.- In doing so, try to have no impact on pure adventurer players.

My suggestion meets my objectives, and I don't see another way of meeting them offhand, although of course it could be done at the next cap raise anyway. It is also a fantastic basis for the future, to allow crafting to gain further developments (more AAs) without ever again impacting adventuring power, and crafters could receive new AAs and new ideas from that point on, without ever having any impact on adventuring ever again.

This would be wonderful for adventurer/crafters, and also pretty nice for pure crafters too, looking to the future. And it would have no impact on pure adventurers at all.

All this said, my approach was just one way it could be done, and I am sure SOE can think of others.

The feedback remains:

We would like to be able to select AAs in both independently, and would like not to be forced to choose between adventuring AA and crafting AA. The answer is, and always has been, to have separate AA pools for Adventuring and Crafting ))

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Old 06-09-2012, 09:21 AM   #24
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

(( You say "as an excuse"? You imply that the purpose of those like myself who want AA separating is just "an excuse" to have the cap raised? If you think that, you have entirely misread the feedback, and are attributing negative motives where they do not exist.

You say "make us more combat powerful"? This is factually incorrect. Combat power is measured from adventuring level, adventuring AA, spell/CA levels and gear alone. It is not affected by crafting level. It will not be affected by crafting AA either. Adding more crafting AA, whether it be 20, 50 or even 500, will not affect combat power one iota. And you know it.

Encounters (solo, group and raid) are balanced against a cap of 92/320 adventurers. The assumption in balancing will be for the most common case where the character has spent those 320 AA in adventuring skills. Which is what most people actually do for anything challenging anyway.

by going with your idea exactly you are increasing most people's combat power by freeing upto 20 points they currently have spent in tradeskill trees and then giving them 20 points to spend in the tradeksill aa boxes.

someone who has 300 spent in adventure and 20 in tradeskill will become more powerful as they could allocate 20 more points into adventure and get 20 seperate points for tradeskill. The only difference between that and a flat increase to the aa cap from 320>340 is with a global cap increase people still have choice on where those aa go and there is still a balancing act between adventure and tradeskill AAs.

second level cap encounters are balanced around 280-320 AAs as 280 is the minimum requirement to level past 90.

only having 300 AAs in adventure is not a handicap, people with 320 in adventure are just better off in combat and you are better off then them in regards to harvesting/crafting.

you ether full spec adventure or you hybrid spec not both.

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:22 AM   #25
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General_Info wrote:

you ether full spec adventure or you hybrid spec not both.

(( Again, you are summarizing back to me the current system as it is. We all already know what the current system does, and repeating it back to everyone again is not helpful. The fact that the AA cap is 320 now and that at the moment characters who are both adventurers and crafters are forced to choose between either being the same power as non-crafting adventurers and not having crafting AA, or being weaker adventurers than non-crafters and choosing some crafting AA, is obviously the case.

Yes, we know how it currently works. Some of us just do not like the current system and consider it unfair to adventurer/crafters, and are requesting that it be modified to remove that unfairness. That is the very purpose of the feedback (well, the initial purpose, it has grown to something more than that now as well).

The purpose of this thread is to request a CHANGE to the current system, to one that we on this thread believe would be better for crafters and better for adventurer/crafters, whilst at the same time having no impact whatsoever on adventurers who do not craft.

In such a CHANGED system:

- Every adventurer can spend 320 AA in adventuring AA, whether they are a crafter or not. This balances adventuring for adventurer/crafters compared to pure adventurers, and has absolutely zero impact on pure adventurers.

- Every crafter can spend however many crafting AA are available (I'd suggest 20 to start with), regardless of whether they are an adventurer or not.

Yes, every adventurer/crafter would then be able to earn 320 AA adventuring and 20 AA crafting, in the same way she can currently earn 92 levels in adventuring and 92 levels in crafting.

This is the aim: To separate the pools completely, and allow each sphere to be developed separately. But this is not just a solution for adventurer/crafters who are currently forced to choose adventuring or crafting AA, who would then be able to choose both. It is also a fantastic idea for all crafters for the future.

Crafting AA development can then move forward in future expansions/updates without worrying about impact on adventuring at all. Separate pools is the way to go, for all crafters and adventurer/crafters alike.

And there is no downside! (well, apart from people who consider any developer work on crafting to be a waste of time, but I am never going to see eye-to-eye with that attitude so it's wasting time even having such a debate).

Once again, you do not need to agree, but that is our feedback ))

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Old 06-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #26
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Yes, every adventurer/crafter would then be able to earn 320 AA adventuring and 20 AA crafting, in the same way she can currently earn 92 levels in adventuring and 92 levels in crafting.

This is the aim: To separate the pools completely, and allow each sphere to be developed separately. But this is not just a solution for adventurer/crafters who are currently forced to choose adventuring or crafting AA, who would then be able to choose both. It is also a fantastic idea for all crafters for the future.

Crafting AA development can then move forward in future expansions/updates without worrying about impact on adventuring at all. Separate pools is the way to go, for all crafters and adventurer/crafters alike.

And there is no downside! (well, apart from people who consider any developer work on crafting to be a waste of time, but I am never going to see eye-to-eye with that attitude so it's wasting time even having such a debate).

Once again, you do not need to agree, but that is our feedback ))

except for the part where the total number of AAs you can invest in adventurer is not equal to the total which you could invest into the tradeskill tree and let's not forget AAs are allocated and can be reset later once you gain a level you can't backtrack if you have a change of heart.

and how would you feel if they seperated them but didn't raise the total global number of AAs combined? (e.g 320AAs>300adventure-20TS or 280 adventure-40TS)

as for future expansions given they added prestige points i think they'll be taking advancement down that route since they are gained by pure leveling and not extra grinding for them.

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Old 06-09-2012, 01:29 PM   #27
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General_Info wrote:

except for the part where the total number of AAs you can invest in adventurer is not equal to the total which you could invest into the tradeskill tree and let's not forget AAs are allocated and can be reset later once you gain a level you can't backtrack if you have a change of heart.

and how would you feel if they seperated them but didn't raise the total global number of AAs combined? (e.g 320AAs>300adventure-20TS or 280 adventure-40TS)

as for future expansions given they added prestige points i think they'll be taking advancement down that route since they are gained by pure leveling and not extra grinding for them.

(( Whilst there are a lot of keen crafting players, and they are significant in number, it is still clear that the majority of the playerbase are either pure adventurers who do not craft, or are mainly adventurers who consider crafting as a side-issue. Already there are huge numbers of adventurers with 320 AA, who of course have all those AA in adventuring skills.

Any approach that says to all those adventurers "hey, we are REDUCING the number of AAs you can have in the adventuring AA trees" is going to go down like a lead ballon. There would be a huge outcry. It just not going to happen. SOE would never do it.

The adventuring cap has to remain the same as the current cap, because the reality is, that is where most players play. Any changes made for crafters and adventurer/crafters cannot impact pure adventurers in a negative way. This is why I believe your suggestion here is never going to fly.

================

With my suggestion, pure adventurers are 100% unaffected. The new pool for crafting AAs is *extra* AAs, purely for crafting, earned by crafters, and only boosts crafting (and harvesting, since SOE seem to link the two, tho theoretically harvesting need not have been linked, but that's a different discussion entirely).

You are correct, however, in that in the idea I am proposing, the pools are *completely* separate, and that:

- AAs earned from adventuring can only be used as adventuring AAs for adventuring AA skills- AAs earned from crafting can only be used as crafting AAs for crafting AA skills

Forever the two will be separate. There will be no "re-setting" of crafting AA to be adventuring AA and vice-versa.

But I contend that this is a "good thing". The two spheres are best off completely separated, allowing future development of one or the other without needing to worry about eachother.

================

Yes, there is the *initial* issue of how the current combined pool is split between the two new pools, at the time the intial split is made, because the existing tradeskill AA tab would need to be moved to be chosen from Crafting AAs instead of from Adventuring AAs. I mentioned this issue earlier in the thread. There are a few ways this could be done.

The easiest is to not allow any AA to move from the current combined pool, but just assume that all existing AA are "adventuring AA" and just start with 0/20 for crafting. Crafters would then have to earn their AAs in crafting by whatever approach SOE put in place for doing that. But this has a really large downside, because it would make many crafters very unhappy. Why? Because if a crafter has 20AA *now* in the combined pool and allocated to the crafting tab, those would be stuck in the adventuring pool, and that crafter would initially lose all those crafting skills until they re-grinded the crafting AA.

A much better solution (because it has no negative impact at all) is to allow every player a one-time-only choice as to how many of their existing "combined" AA go into the crafting AA pool at the moment of the split. SOE could put some restrictions on this choice, like you need to be level X crafter, or whatever. This would leave it as a player choice. Once made, the player can then grind AA in both spheres independently.

This is only a short-term issue however.

Let me explain by means of example. Let's say my Fury character were to choose the initial split for her AAs from 320/320 combined ===> 310/320 adventure and 10/20 crafting. After it were done, she would gradually grind the remaining 10 adventuring AA back again by the normal adventuring means, to get back to 320/320 adventuring AA. Separately, she would also grind the other 10 new Crafting AA, by whatever process SOE put in place for gaining crafting AA. However, my monk might choose to leave all her 320 in adventuring, and need to grind all 20 crafting AA from scratch, whilst my templar/sage might choose to put all 20 into crafting, and need to grind 20 adventuring AA. Each player would have the choice, for each character.

[I am assuming here that gaining these initial 20 crafting AA would not be by the 'prestige' approach, because the crafting level cap is already 92 and huge numbers of crafters are already at that cap, and giving AA "for free" is never a good idea. Future crafting AA added in updates and expansions to come, could then of course be added by a prestige approach when level cap raises happen, if that were SOE's wish.]

================

Long-term, the outlook for crafting in EverQuest II is a lot brighter once the AA pools are completely split. It would allow SOE to add whatever they like to crafting, without imbalancing or even affecting adventuring at all ))

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Old 06-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #28
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I am a raider, lvl 92 Guardian and a lvl 91 armorer. I put all my AA points into adventuring. I am also a max level adorner. I use to have on my AA mirror a tradeskill spec that had the chance to make an item without using the materials so I perhap could save on manas when I make adornments.

I found it so annoying to switch between specs that I stopped doing this. I hate switching specs and having to rebuff everything everytime. I also do this on my swashbuckler for the rare harvest chance and when I switch specs my poisons reset, which is a major pain, I do not want to waste my poisons just to switch between the two.

I no longer bother switching between Tradeskill AA specs and Adventure Specs. On my Guardian/Armorer I have gotten rid of it completly.  I think AA mirrors are for switching between 2 different adventuring specs, now with having tradeskill AA that has changed some what.

If you consider the fact that there is Raid Apprentices that can only be gotten by some one who raids (or bought from a raider) that it shows that you can't split your AA's between tradeskill and adventure.  On my non-raiding alts I would never put points in tradeskill AA when I am doing adventure zones. I know that is my choice, but any person who has a crafter and is serious about adventuring will never do group zones with points in tradeskill AA.

I guess I don't understand why seperating the 2 would be such a big deal. I would be all for it. Just like I think crafters should be able to make items that help out crafting (I know a different topic) I like this idea, anything that will benefit crafters, though this idea will really only benefit the adventurer/crafter players and I don't see a problem with that.

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Old 06-14-2012, 12:43 PM   #29
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Last post on the topic from me.

To try to better illustrate: Currently on each AA tab you have a limit to the number of points you can spend in that tab. You have to pick and choose what to spend points in because you can't spend max points on every item in a tab before you run out of points that you're allowed to spend in that tab.

So if you take the max you can spend in the tabs and add them together you get 40+100+100+70+50 = 360

The maximum AA that you can earn is 320. That's 40 points that you SHOULD be able to spend but can't because you're capped at 320. The only thing that would have to be changed at all is up the cap to 360. Spend the 40 points wherever within the current tab maximums you're allowed to. It's easy. 2+2=4 NOT 2+2=3.8

The only thing anyone gains is the ability to quit swapping out AA specs to craft at their most efficient or swap out specs to adventure at their most efficient. Yes, people at cap right now will have to go earn 40 more AA points but come on, if you're at cap it gives you something to do with all the xp that you're otherwise throwing away. If you're below cap, then it gives you the option to cap your adventure abilities faster or spread it evenly between crafting and adventuring or dump it all into crafting or whatever you like. You get to play without being forced to choose between two options (adventure OR craft).

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Old 06-14-2012, 02:31 PM   #30
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Cinnimon wrote:

I’m not sure about others but having to go to house to swop out AA lines is a waste of my time if you happen to be out about harvesting & adventuring and want the maximum AA for both.

Also, it just like the Tradeskill armor…why can’t we benefit from both? Why not add a separate TS armor tab for Tradeskill armor that we can maybe check to be in effect or not if out an about?

This having to swop out is tedious and one of biggest things I really hate about this game because I have bag slots filled with this and sure could more room when adventuring.

I tend to agree which is why I don't use AA mirrors.  Too much of a pain in the neck.

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