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Old 06-02-2005, 09:35 PM   #1
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Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this.... Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:42 PM   #2
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I agree with Cohh
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Old 06-02-2005, 09:47 PM   #3
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Cohh wrote:
Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this....

Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?



Honestly?  I want both.
 
First off-  Your concept of "core game" and others are going to be different, and don't get me wrong, I am not saying font alterations are "core game". 
 
What I am saying is that what you want fixed and what some others want fixed will differ.  Who is right and who is wrong?  Who's priorities do they follow?  Yours?  The next guy?  Do a poll?  A poll would take time and data analysis, and then you are back to priorities again.
 
What it boils down to is that there are different team sections working each aspect of the game.  The people who do fonts are not the guys who program DPS alterations and fix bugged code (for the most aprt anyway).  Those are generally not even remotely the same people in game design. 
 
The things you want fixed have certainly already been prioritized and are being worked by a seeprate team within the EQ2 devs.  The fot updates are not goign to affect current development timetables in the slightest.
 
I know these are all only my opinions, but I think I have a pretty good rationale going on here. SMILEY

Message Edited by CanisLupos on 06-02-2005 10:49 AM

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Old 06-02-2005, 09:50 PM   #4
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I agree... when I read the test update notes I was amazed at how unimportant the next live update will be. It's not addressing important issues and is also lacking in any substantial changes to game content/mechanics

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Old 06-02-2005, 09:52 PM   #5
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Cohh wrote:
Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this....

Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?



The game mechanics that need fixing take a lot more time to fix then a font.   Just because you do not see the result yet does not mean it is not being worked on feverously by many people.  Changing basic game mechanics take a lot of time and require going to tons of code and rewriting it all.  It also takes more then one person to do it.  They most likley have a whole team working on it(could be 2 people, could be 10) 

The combat changes also will take that amount of time.  These changes have most likley been worked on for months.  The fact that we see some of them on test is a sign that 'most' of the work is nearing completion. 

To answer your question, yes I want different fonts for my journel.  That most likely took 1 guy 2-3 days to fix.  And Yes I want the mechanics of this fixed.  That most likley has had a team working on it for months and they are wraping it us and getting closer every day.   The changes you seek will come.  It just takes time and patients.  SoE can not have the devs snap their fingers and make all the changes happen.  It takes people like you and me to rewrite all the code and humans can only go so fast.

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Old 06-02-2005, 09:52 PM   #6
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Cohh wrote:
Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this....

Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?



Ok, here's my take:

I work for a development firm. I work on one aspect of my software. Compartmentalization allows for much better use of developer time. Did it not occur to you that perhaps they have developers working on different parts of the software? I don't want somebody who knows nothing about the new combat system to try and work on it when their area of expertise is UI. That would be just plain bad business, and much more likely to break something else for you to complain about than it would be to fix everything miraculously.

This game is multiple gigabytes. Multiple millions of lines of code. Sometimes it takes a bit more work to fix than most people who spend their time telling the devs how crappy a job they are doing seem to think. Try leaving constructive feedback and you're more likely to get listened to - the fact that you expect your own post to be locked points to the reality that it is but a rant.

1 star, here I come. Perhaps fanboi status too. Whoop dee doo.

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Old 06-02-2005, 09:55 PM   #7
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5 * here for Chuk and Twiz from me.  Best posts I've seen in a while, really.
 
And not just because they have similar ideas. SMILEY  It's primarily becuse their ideas show some forethought, not just the rage of impatience. SMILEY

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Old 06-02-2005, 09:58 PM   #8
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Chukklez wrote:


Cohh wrote:
Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this....

Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?



Ok, here's my take:

I work for a development firm. I work on one aspect of my software. Compartmentalization allows for much better use of developer time. Did it not occur to you that perhaps they have developers working on different parts of the software? I don't want somebody who knows nothing about the new combat system to try and work on it when their area of expertise is UI. That would be just plain bad business, and much more likely to break something else for you to complain about than it would be to fix everything miraculously.

This game is multiple gigabytes. Multiple millions of lines of code. Sometimes it takes a bit more work to fix than most people who spend their time telling the devs how crappy a job they are doing seem to think. Try leaving constructive feedback and you're more likely to get listened to - the fact that you expect your own post to be locked points to the reality that it is but a rant.

1 star, here I come. Perhaps fanboi status too. Whoop dee doo.




While I agree with your assesmant, because yes, you are right, one thing I do not agree with, and I think you can see my point, is the complete lack of communcation from the devs.  People wouldnt get so damned upset about craptastic live updates like this if they we knew what SoE is working on/doing.  As it stands right now, that LU is very sad by a development standart when you look at the larger scope of things.  The only change I saw in that LU that means anything to me personaly is the fix to alchemy workshop tasks, which only took them 2 months to get fixed.

So I guess the point here is, SoE needs to work on communication with their customers, we know they are doing something with the combat system, something with the spells, etc etc etc....but no onw really knows exactly what the hell is going on, and thats not a good thing.

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Old 06-02-2005, 10:03 PM   #9
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I agree!

Combat is Broken! Mob Pathing is [Removed for Content]! Spells are Broken!

But I get new fonts, woohoo...

LU#6 was supposed to address class balance?

 

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Old 06-02-2005, 10:14 PM   #10
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Gyheim wrote:
I agree with Cohh


ROFL Gyheim

You need to find something better to do with your time SMILEY

Oh wait… maybe it’s me that has to do that, I just spent the time figuring out which font you used.

NM!

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Old 06-02-2005, 10:41 PM   #11
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I am at work right now so sadly this is a better use of my time.  Well for me and not my employer haha.  Work SUCKS! and I think we can all agree on that.

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Old 06-02-2005, 10:42 PM   #12
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Something people really need to consider when arguing points in this thread is that this is a game that has been through Beta. This is a game that has been on the shelves for over 6 months. This has nothing to do patience, this has to do with getting it done period. The core (and yes, the CORE of the game, read all the boards) want combat changes, spell updates, item corrections, MECHANICAL changes. We don't care about FONTs, we don't care about NEW WAYPOINTS. And you know, its fine if they compartmentalize, thats how good companies are run. All i'm saying is it is time to see some ACTION from that side of the fence, beceause right now, it feels pretty stagnant. All we get are promises and let downs. Still no dueling on live servers, and no ETA. Still no Priest DPS changes, bumped back as well. Enchanter DPS adjustment? Shelfed for now. How about scout DPS balancing? I doubt thats even on the CHECKLIST at this point. They've had yeras to develop this game, and over 12 SOLID months to tweak the combat system, yet we see nothing. They even claimed to have adjusted strength, NEVER saying they didn't, but that too was a lie, and streangth still has the same affect on dammage as day 1. Do I also need to get started on Haste? Or how imbalanced it is when you can haste a tank with a RGF to almost HALF A SECOND SWINGS? THere is so much balancing it makes my head spin, and yet we see none of the effects, no changes, not even MENTIONS of them. What is going on here? Where are our combat updates? WHY ARE WE GETTING MORE FONTS?
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:11 PM   #13
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"WHY ARE WE GETTING MORE FONTS?"

If you want the same guy that handles the fonts (ie menu artist) to repair the combat issues, you'll get one big surprise buddy. You're talking to distinctively different areas.

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Old 06-02-2005, 11:22 PM   #14
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I'm a developer too and while I understand there are people working on the other issues, I'm of the opinion we don't get enough information about what's being done to fix the core issues.  The only information we have to go on is the update notes posted after a fix goes live or a LU goes to test.  That's not good enough.  We're paying them for a working game, and even though I'm sure they're putting effort into making it work, some sort of status other than "We're looking into it" is in order. Just please start telling us what's going on in more detail with the broken stuff, then we'll be able to enjoy the cosmetic changes knowing we can look forward to the big things getting fixed.
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:23 PM   #15
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Chukklez wrote:


Cohh wrote:
Don't know where to start here, title says it all. What are you guys DOING in there? New fonts for our quest journal? WHAT? HI, you have a broken combat system on your hands, and your updating the font in our journal window? I could go on for hours about this, how there are classes with broken spells, DIRGE with AOE TAUNTS (WHAT THE HELL?), Items that are broken... were talking game MECHANICS, and you guys are fixing the FONTS? I'm sure this will get locked, but i'd seriously like some other opinions on this....

Do you guys want more font for your quest journals? Or do you want to fix the core of this game?



Ok, here's my take:

I work for a development firm. I work on one aspect of my software. Compartmentalization allows for much better use of developer time. Did it not occur to you that perhaps they have developers working on different parts of the software? I don't want somebody who knows nothing about the new combat system to try and work on it when their area of expertise is UI. That would be just plain bad business, and much more likely to break something else for you to complain about than it would be to fix everything miraculously.

This game is multiple gigabytes. Multiple millions of lines of code. Sometimes it takes a bit more work to fix than most people who spend their time telling the devs how crappy a job they are doing seem to think. Try leaving constructive feedback and you're more likely to get listened to - the fact that you expect your own post to be locked points to the reality that it is but a rant.

1 star, here I come. Perhaps fanboi status too. Whoop dee doo.


I don't actually disagree with what you've said. On the other hand, I think many of us are deeply disappointed because EQ2 was released without anywhere near sufficient time in beta. Yes, it's a dynamic game. Yes, I expect changes, some major. But rushing the game into production to compete with WoW did not earn them a loyal fan base. That is not a developer problem, that is a management problem, where management perhaps doesn't yet quite get that EQ has plenty of competition out there and more on the way, and faster does not usually translate to better. I think the devs are well aware of that fact.....but management in any large corporation can be far removed from the people who actually do the hands on work. There's only so much hinting that something isn't good to go before I'm sure the management starts saying that a team leader is "counterproductive."

At any rate, I'll give them a little while longer for something that will completely change gameplay.....but it better a) WORK without major bugs when it goes live! and b) truly be a long term fix. This is not six years ago when I started playing EQ as my first MMORPG and was awash in awe.....choices are growing by leaps and bounds and if enough resources aren't devoted to gamebreaking issues, I'll be happy to blame the management....but I'll vote with my cancelled subscription. There are many things that I like about EQ2, but I have stopped thinking that EQ is the end all, be all of online gaming.

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Old 06-02-2005, 11:34 PM   #16
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Why are we getting more fonts? Maybe because over at EQ2interface there is at least 3 mods that change the fonts to make them easier to see. I'd also be willing to bet that Sony is just importing the code from these mods since the mods are done with thier tools. Therefor it was done because enough people CARED about it bad enough to make thier own modifications to the game and it was most likely done for free. Look at that, demand causes supply...

Why are they adding waypoints? Maybe because everyone and thier mother uses eq2map. Maybe because while combat is working with a few bugs for now, some people are having difficulty finding thier way around. Adding waypoints to the map is also a VERY easy mod, probably done by a dev on his lunch break after realizing no one uses the maps in game without using eq2map mod these days.

You asked why dueling isn't in the game. Apparently you are unaware of the new expansion pack comming out. Its called Desert of Flames, it will be out in september and that is where sony is advertizing that dueling will be.

Combat is working right now. The imbalances are there but they are not game breaking. Everyone contributes to a group and everyone can solo without any problems whatsoever AND (imho the most important) every single class is usefull on a raid.

You obviously have never played another MMORPG, this is still one of the most bug free and balanced games on the market. Its Waaaaaay better than EQ1 was in its first 3 years. Raid targets actually take strategy and you can't just zerg them (which is boooring). I'd be willing to bet that the Combat patch will be part of the Desert of flames expansion too since that is where dueling is being introduced.

If you are really this frustrated maybe you need to take a break and come back when the combat patch is released. If not, I recommend pot or valume.

 

 

Message Edited by Yrendar on 06-02-2005 12:36 PM

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Old 06-02-2005, 11:42 PM   #17
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Yrendar wrote:

If you are really this frustrated maybe you need to take a break and come back when the combat patch is released. If not, I recommend pot or valume.



That would be valium SMILEY

And no I don't use it SMILEY

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Old 06-02-2005, 11:49 PM   #18
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Side note that I forgot in my post.

Dirges do not AOE taunt. They create agro through thier buffs just like every other class. Every class. I can hold agro fairly well as a mystic if I buff in battle (although that is what we Mystic's call Suicide). Any good tank will save thier buffs for battle so they can hold agro better.

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Old 06-02-2005, 11:59 PM   #19
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Yrendar wrote:

You obviously have never played another MMORPG, this is still one of the most bug free and balanced games on the market. Its Waaaaaay better than EQ1 was in its first 3 years. Raid targets actually take strategy and you can't just zerg them (which is boooring). I'd be willing to bet that the Combat patch will be part of the Desert of flames expansion too since that is where dueling is being introduced.

If you are really this frustrated maybe you need to take a break and come back when the combat patch is released. If not, I recommend pot or valume.

Message Edited by Yrendar on 06-02-2005 12:36 PM


Not addressed to me (I think) but I would like to say that I played One from the third week Mithaniel Marr was up. Over five years.....and I had HOPED and PRAYED they'd learned something during those five years. There are some wonderful things in EQ2, I find it much more playable as a casual player in many aspects than EQ One. But I've had six years to learn what I like, and SOE has presumably had at least four of those years to determine how they want this game to go. Do I think that EQ2 should be compared to EQ1 in its first years? No. To me, that's like saying they started from scratch. Which is pretty much what Verant did, actually. Four years is a long time to observe what works and what doesn't work, not to mention I'm sure they took a look at implementation in the other major games to come out after EQ.

I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if someone has attended culinary school for four years, I wouldn't expect the cake to fall, even if they were designing the recipe from scratch. They had plenty of time to observe what works and what doesn't work for their intended audience.....the management chose to pull the cake out of the oven before it had finished baking. I am well aware that the devs don't make that kind of decision. Pity there aren't celebrity devs like there are celebrity chefs, so they could run their own kitchens....err development teams. I guess Brad McQuaid is as close as it gets.

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Old 06-03-2005, 12:01 AM   #20
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The problem, as I see it is that they have ANYONE AT ALL working on fonts/optional voiceovers/waypoints, this is FLUFF and only serves to dress up a defective product, it may "look" pretty but it doesn't work for crap, hello Edsel!!!

SOE needs to get its priorities straight and set people to work on the important problems such as combat fixes, heal agro balancing, Mage class DPS overhaul etc, you know the stuff that keeps the game from being playable or fun at times?

The resources available at SOE are vast and talented,  the probelm is not availability of resources to fix the game, its the managerial decisions to put fixes as a lesser priority than "new" stuff, they are driven to move ahead, dress up the game and hope that we will all be so dazzled by the spiffy new fonts and waypoints that we wont mind the broken stuff anymore, this has been the mindset of Smed and Co. for years now and the "let them eat cake" attitude is insulting to our collective intelligence to say the least.

SOE needs to devote its people and talent to making this game work right, and they KNOW it, they even ask you if that is one of the reason you are leaving when you cancel an account, but enough of us stay and hope for the best, which unfortunately send the misinterpreted message that we don't care, when the truth is we DO care and we keep trying to get the message across but no one listens.

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Old 06-03-2005, 12:13 AM   #21
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I love fonts....:womantongue:
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Old 06-03-2005, 12:26 AM   #22
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No Ashilian, it wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the OP who came across like he/she was throwing a tantrum.

Personally I don't think they had anyone really working on fonts. I'm almost posative they imported the font mod from eq2interface.com. No joke, someone could do this on a smoke break, it is that quick and easy.

Maybe I've been beaten down by so many other MMORPG launches. EQ1 was a nightmare, SWG was Horrid (and just kept getting worse instead of better), DAOC was so bad I tried to get a refund, COH was good but got repetative and booring very quick, I quit AO before the trial was up due to bugs. Honestly this has been by far the absolute best launch I have every seen on an mmor... I feel like they learned from everyone else and did better.. but hey, thats my oppion and much like another stinky part of your anatomy, we all have em.
 
Even the bugs that are in this game are tempered by something else. Pathing is pathetic but at least the mobs don't bring friends. Combat has some issues but isn't broken by any stretch of the immagination, Tanks tank, Scouts DPS or buff and have tons of utility, Nukers nuke and buff, Healers heal and buff and come with a few utility spells... Sure some tanks can out DPS some Scouts but that really is minor. You can take any class to 50 solo or grouped. What I'm afraid of is the combat patch totally messing everything up.
 
I know I'm not the only one having fun in this game, I have a blast with my guildmates. That may be it, you can forgive all these bugs with teamspeak and your whole group drinking beer SMILEY
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Old 06-03-2005, 12:48 AM   #23
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Yrendar wrote:
 
Even the bugs that are in this game are tempered by something else. Pathing is pathetic but at least the mobs don't bring friends. Combat has some issues but isn't broken by any stretch of the immagination, Tanks tank, Scouts DPS or buff and have tons of utility, Nukers nuke and buff, Healers heal and buff and come with a few utility spells... Sure some tanks can out DPS some Scouts but that really is minor. You can take any class to 50 solo or grouped. What I'm afraid of is the combat patch totally messing everything up.
 
I know I'm not the only one having fun in this game, I have a blast with my guildmates. That may be it, you can forgive all these bugs with teamspeak and your whole group drinking beer SMILEY


I do have fun....but it's very frustrating to me to see what could have been a great game reduced to mediocre because they wanted to rush the release to compete with WoW. Instead, they ended up with a ton of people (at least many of my friends :smileysadSMILEY leaving for WoW, when I think that WoW isn't such hot stuff in a lot of ways. They could have had people leaving WoW for EQ2 if they'd been willing to work on it in beta for longer. I do have fun, but the people I spend time with are the ones I'd have fun with in any game. Which sounds like your friends :smileyhappy: I don't have a big gripe with the fonts issue, my problem is that they didn't devote the prerelease resources they should have, and they don't devote the resources to testing and bug prevention now. With the number of people who howl in protest when major bugs go live after they spammed the bug reports on Test......either staff isn't listening or they think fewer people are affected by many of these bugs than actually are, or management takes the usual attitude of management that we aren't leaving in droves, therefore we must not be that upset.

 I don't think you're a fanboi for enjoying the game.....I enjoy it, too. But I really did have higher expectations, and I don't think they're unrealistic for a company with Sony's resources. If they choose to settle for decent gameplay over great and don't put the effort into responding to major concerns in a timely manner, they're going to lose people. I've always been someone who stuck around because I don't like to spend the money trying out a lot of games when they aren't definitively better. I have the feeling that eventually someone is going to get it right for my particular playstyle (Guild Wars and WoW working well for a different set of gamers than me), and when they do, SOE can no longer count on my loyalty. They have to earn it.

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Old 06-03-2005, 01:09 AM   #24
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LU#11 New Added Colors to the , Sorta New Fonts ... Enjoy...

We tried to fix some issues with certin raid mobs such as The Kra`thuk for the umpteenth time but got frustrated and decided adding colors was faster and easier.. Expect the Combat locking to be fixed in the near future after we add new font and colors to the in game mail system..

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Old 06-03-2005, 01:35 AM   #25
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Yrendar wrote:

Side note that I forgot in my post.

Dirges do not AOE taunt. They create agro through thier buffs just like every other class. Every class. I can hold agro fairly well as a mystic if I buff in battle (although that is what we Mystic's call Suicide). Any good tank will save thier buffs for battle so they can hold agro better.


 
Just F.Y.I. Dirges do have taunt oddly enough. This is in addition to buffing aggro onto you and it costs 1 concentration slot.
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Old 06-03-2005, 01:43 AM   #26
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1)  The dude or dudet who updated the fonts probably isn't a programmer. They are  probably an artist/graphics designer.  I don't want them touching combat changes.
 
2)  Have all of the EQ vets lost their memories?  EQ was so broke when it was released (granted it was Verant back then but Smed is still here).  The new UI release was horrendus, amost every expansion was broken.  There were dozens and dozens of quests that were in the game at release that still have never worked.  Casino anyone??  Good God people they closed the official forums for YEARS.  All that we had were Druids Grove and Monkeybusiness and EQ Necro and all the other class boards  to discuss the game, and were lucky if the CS rep posted once every couple of months.  (Absor didn't like the Necro Boards SMILEY.   ).  They've ALWAYS released new expansions with old broken content still there.  They've ALWAYS fixed doors when there were bigger fish to fry.  Part of it I'm sure has to do with resource allocation and things of that nature. 
 
Having said all that, They eventually got most of the important stuff right, they re-opened the official forums, the started talking more on the class boards (yes even the necro board).  We had to wait far too long to get things fixed, but eventually it did.  The combat change is a huge change.  It could completely change our characters and how we play them.  I want them to get it right.  At the same time, I don't want everything else to stop.  Should they have delayed the Froglok quest to work on combat changes?  I think most of us would say no, but that took time and resources for them to implement. 
 
But please SoE, fix the blasted combat lock problem.
 
 
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Old 06-03-2005, 01:59 AM   #27
FamilyManFir

 
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Kucastank wrote:
Just F.Y.I. Dirges do have taunt oddly enough. This is in addition to buffing aggro onto you and it costs 1 concentration slot.

Are you talking about Hyran's Angry/Raging Sonata? From what little I can see isn't it supposed to increase encounter hate on the target of the spell (i.e., put it on the MT to improve his/her aggro building)?
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:26 AM   #28
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The developers are working on the splitpaw adventure pack and the desert expansion. There are not enough devs left to fix the game. I expect the combat balance when the next expansion comes the expansion after this desert one and I fully expect the balance to be a disaster. I hope to be proven wrong.
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Old 06-03-2005, 08:41 AM   #29
Keegant

 
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Responding to the person that said that this game has fewer bugs than most MMORPGs.

 

Ummm, what games have you played? I can say that I have played many an MMORPG, and though the others may have had more bugs, this I agree with, this game has the most detrimental to gameplay bugs. I don't care if a frog runs while on a flying carpet. How many flying carpets are their in the game anyway? 3, 4, maybe 10. The fact that SOE spent the time to fix a bug that had ABSOLUTLY NO EFFECT ON THE GAME, and havent yet fixed the LIC bug that has made me almost completly stop playing till it is fixed, shows that they don't have thier priorities strait. Apearance is big but ame play is bigger. I'm just about done with this bugged game.

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Old 06-03-2005, 09:02 AM   #30
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I just had to laugh when I read the topic of this thread.  Start losing gamers?  They've been losing players for months already, I'm very close to quitting myself, but that's not overly important to anyone else.  /shrug  SOE will do what they think is best, and that's about all they can do.
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