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Old 06-24-2005, 12:34 AM   #1
Noah

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Given the ingame mechanics (basically dont suggest something off the wall), what type of ""AA"" or "Trained Talent" skills would you like to see as a Guardian? 
 
My Suggestions -
 
Increase Hate Skills by %
Increase HP by %
Increase Mitigation vs Physical attacks (different selections - pierce, crush, slash)
Add Small hate every melee auto hit.
 
Not very creative but perhaps other people have ideas.
 
 
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:23 AM   #2
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I do not want to see any kind of system that encourages mindless grinding. Guild writs are bad enough. This is supposed to be a next generation game, they need to come up with something inventive. I play a lot. I play most weekends and every night for several hours. I have a 50/50 main, and two 20 level alts. I've just started to raid so I got about 2-3 months to outfit myself in fabled gear before the expansion. I probably would play more if I didn't have to worry about things like rent, food, and hygiene. I honestly can't believe there is a large percentage of people playing this game, that have done so much more than me that we need any type of AA system. What if they do give us AA's? If they don't give you content to match your new abilties you'll just trivalize any old content. You'll need another "Omens of War" to be kept busy. Do we really want to go down this road again?

Message Edited by Migyb on 06-23-2005 05:43 PM

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Old 06-24-2005, 01:26 AM   #3
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Increased run speed, maybe something that increases weapon procs, other than that maybe the usual stat increases, hp regen increases so on.
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:44 AM   #4
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I agree with the above poster would be nice for aa's to become different than eq1. Perhaps havind to do favors for someone kind of as a trainign tool to grant certain aa's would be a nice touch.
 
AA's id like to see tho"
 
Double attack
HP%
Power%
Run speed
Block %
Resisting Stun%
Resist upgrades like how eq had +10 in them should scale higher sine resists are way higher maybe +100 per training.
 
granted could list tons of aa's because had so many in eq1 id much rather see a disc system implemnted also. I dont agree that stances replace defensive discs and so on. I think each fighter class should have its own type of defensive disc. Such as monks should get a evasion disc. Knights could get a mix of 25% avoidance 25% mitigation boost as they are hybrids. Guardains Zerkers should get a form of defensive disc. I think with the current raid content people are trying to hold it on standard of other games. Raid content in eq1 sucked IMHO until velious. AoW was not killable with out defensive disc until planes of power came out 2 expansions down the road. Perhaps a fully vt geared tank could have.
 
Would like to see that difficulty added in with out fully mimicing eq1. Can make it a 15 min refresh skills we get at certain lvls. Such as at lvl 52 when we ding we get 2 skills 1 is there proposed skill then 1 a disc all with 15 - 30 min reuse timers. Give each class 4-5 I feel that would add alot of versatility to the game and be a more balancing factor to classes and roles. They also could make it in decisions like at lvl 60 you get to choose 1 disc for you to have. I think they could do alot of cool things with it. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:58 AM   #5
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Percentage chance to shrug off stuns of any type, melee or magic based.

Some type of fearless

Some long range pulling spell would be nice, even if it's only 1dmg, anchor is great for pulling but I'd like something that does atleast 1dmg and shorter refresh

An AE taunt like EQ1 would be great, real AE and instant, not encounter, and guaranteed top agro spot by 1point

Not very original either, but I always liked those AA's especially, along with the ones Noah posted.

Resists, Run speed, Enduring breath, stat increases, proc rate increase etc.. AA's were nice too but those should be general and not fighter / guardian only.

Oh, and please for the love of god, let us shorten the cast time of gate through AA or spell level incease.

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Old 06-24-2005, 02:19 AM   #6
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Reduced re-cast on Shield Slams - 3 ranks, 5-7 seconds per rank  (Passive)
 
Additional Hate on Shield Slam (Passive)
 
Reduced casting time on combat arts (Passive)
 
Chance to fire attacks while initiating a combat art.  2, 5, 10% (Passive)
 
Enhanced Block Rate with a Tower Shield (Passive)
 
Critical Melee Attacks (Passive)
 
Reduction of delay on 2-Handed Weapons (Passive)
 
Increased Run Speed and Jump Height (Passive)
 
Greater amount of unconscious HP.  If stamina already controls this, then create a more efficient formula to be used by this ability. (Passive)
 
More efficient stamina to breath conversion (Passive)
 
Increased Kick Damage and chance to interrupt (Passive)
 
Greater chance to proc effects on weapons and shields (Passive)
 
Greater chance to proc effects on HEAVY armor, but not jewelry or any other equipped armor type (Passive)
 
Low-HP improvement of riposte and parry.  If you could train tiers in this ability it would extend the range of where you receive the bonus from under 10% HP to 20% to 30%. (Passive)
 
Greater chance to successfully land blows through parry, riposte, dodge, and block.  If it is a riposte they would still get to deal damage to us, they just wouldn't stop our damage if this ability succeeded. (Passive)
 
Any source of health or mana regeneration boosted by a %.  Such that if you receive clarity for 30 points a tick, it acts at 33.  If you eat food that regens your health at 60 points a tick it acts as 66.  This enhances the current sources of regeneration, making them more desirable rather than providing base regen which could make them less so. Base Regen would be unaffected. (Passive)
 
Reduced Durability Loss per death by 1% of total per rank - 2 ranks.  This gives standard armor 12 deaths rather than 10 when fully trained. (Passive)
 
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:23 AM   #7
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Welp, now that two FoH tanks have posted, I'm going to assueme this system has been decided and the devs are just fishing for ideas/feedback. You guys should charge a consulting fee.Anyway here's my list:1)
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:46 AM   #8
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Migyb wrote:
Welp, now that two FoH tanks have posted, I'm going to assueme this system has been decided and the devs are just fishing for ideas/feedback. You guys should charge a consulting fee.

Anyway here's my list:

1)

The animosity towards our tag, when someone is trying to bring up a good discussion, is childish don't you think?

I mean the devs already listed some type of AAs as a possible inclusion in the game soon (both in the Community Summit write up notes and MG in Sassee's latest ask SOE).

So I would assume since some form of AAs are going to be implemented eventually, that the EQ2 community would like to give as much feedback as they can in order to get a system in place that everyone is comfortable with.

I just don't understand what it is about a tag that can bring such hate.  /shrug

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Old 06-24-2005, 03:00 AM   #9
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nothing that effects fighting or i become godly with my 18 hour per day gaming.. :/ stuff like run speed bonus would be nice. any hp/stat increase will make fighting easier and then they need to make encounters harder and ones that dont have as much time to play are left out of the game.. however some minimal increases might work. but i want to be great cos i play my toon great, not cause i have loads of time to grind AA:s and my toon is great.
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Old 06-24-2005, 03:25 AM   #10
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Gage,I have nothing personaly against FoH in the game, or how they conduct themselves. But I do have issues that game designers are soliciting game design advice repeatedly from only several specfic users or guilds.It was already suggested on the guardian boards that there be a "class representative". This idea was seen by the majority of the people who read these forums as a bad one. If SOE wants good feedback from their players, then devs should come to us directly. They should use opinion polls and surveys that hit all of their player base. They could also talk to other game designers, and not a handful of end users. Their game developers should play other games.If they want useful advice from their users, I know of many people who are in the software industry. Perahps they should ask us questions like, "How do I code for load?" Or "How do I create and execute proper test plans?" That some of us can help with. But otherwise game design should be left to game developers.
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Old 06-24-2005, 03:33 AM   #11
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Once bloodlines was introduced, one of my favorite skills has been Unyielding will. I'd like to see an AA version maybe on a long timer that has the same effect, but when death's door runs out, instead of being a guarenteed instead death due to the exploding heart effect, maybe a 10% chance to live on, could make it tiered as well, 10%, 25%, 50% chance to live after death's door expires. Comments? *Fixed Grammar. Huuuuked on phunix wurked 4 me

Message Edited by Lyrus-D on 06-23-2005 04:36 PM

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Old 06-24-2005, 03:37 AM   #12
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Welp, now that two FoH tanks have posted, I'm going to assueme this system has been decided and the devs are just fishing for ideas/feedback. You guys should charge a consulting fee.

Anyway here's my list:

1)
 
 
Hehe yes it is becoming funny. Hold on a sec maybe these guys are paid to be SoE representatives on forums ? You know like with free gaming time etc.. ?
 
After reading all the recent posts that are almost exclusive written to cover up and pave the way for possible nerfs on our class I am really getting the feeling that these guys are actually told what to post.
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Old 06-24-2005, 03:43 AM   #13
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Why the animosity? Why not just put aside any previous feelings for the sake of intelligent discussion? Comments like that will just continue to deteriorate the thread until Godwin's Law takes effect. Common courtesy is if you don't have anything constructive to say, to not say anything at all.
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Old 06-24-2005, 03:49 AM   #14
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Hehe yes it is becoming funny. Hold on a sec maybe these guys are paid to be SoE representatives on forums ? You know like with free gaming time etc.. ?
 
After reading all the recent posts that are almost exclusive written to cover up and pave the way for possible nerfs on our class I am really getting the feeling that these guys are actually told what to post.

Well, I actually agree with what the FoH tanks have to say about the combat system. It is broken, and the way guards tank is a huge part of that. I also feel that Noah has been invaluable in providing the community with information. And his comments on the game are always insightful But there is a line crossed when devs start asking people advice on core features that are not even coded yet. No one can see the big picture as well as they can. They need to keep game design in house. AA's would change the entire dynamic of how and why we play. We as players should say if something is fun, or tedious, fair or unfair. We can also report bugs. That's where our comments should end.

Message Edited by Migyb on 06-23-2005 07:51 PM

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Old 06-24-2005, 03:58 AM   #15
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Why the animosity? Why not just put aside any previous feelings for the sake of intelligent discussion? Comments like that will just continue to deteriorate the thread until Godwin's Law takes effect.

Read Migbys' post above Lyrus-D You can replace Demos' name with any name doesnt matter. Would have received same reaction.

 

 

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:04 AM   #16
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I don't see how SoE, being the ones who came up with the concept of alternate advancement in EQ1 could be seen soliciting an idea they came up with. I'm fairly certain that they've had the idea of implementing AA's eventually since EQ2 went live.  There's just something I'm not grasping here that seems to be beyond the scope of logic. Whatever.
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Old 06-24-2005, 04:12 AM   #17
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There are two discussions going on in this thread. It seems that the devs have asked a handful of people, one of them being Noah, "What type of AA's do you want?" There are two problems with that question. One, they should not be asking the players how to design core game system. The second problem is that if they ARE going to ask the players how to design core systems, they shouldn't be asking only a handful of players.The second discussion that is going on is Noah asked, "What type of AA's do you want?"My reply was, "Who says we want or need AA's in the first place?"Hope that clears things up.p.s Oh, there is third topic. It involves gage being touchy about FoH being mentioned in posts. Sorry, I'll try not to do it again SMILEY

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:12 AM   #18
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Nooo, no AA's !!  :smileymad: That was the kind of crap that made me quit that game!!! I'm sure SOE developers are smarter than that and will come up with something better :smileywink:.
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Old 06-24-2005, 04:25 AM   #19
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It seems that the devs have asked a handful of people one of them being Noah, "What type of AA's do you want?" First off, what proof is there that you have that is verifiable that anything of the sort happened? There are two problems with that question. One, they should not be asking the players how to design core game system. The second problem is that if they ARE going to ask the players how to design core systems, they shouldn't be asking only a handful of players. Back to the first point, Without any proof that they actually did ask  these handful of players, it would mean you're merely making a speculation, possibly with the intent of defamation.  Second, they don't only ask a handful of players, /feedback has been in the game since it went live for any and every player to make suggestions. The second discussion that is going on is Noah asked, "What type of AA's do you want?" That was the intent of the post, why hijack it and discourage intelligent discussion? If you don't want AA's, fine, it's just a matter of not replying or not even reading the thread to begin with.
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Old 06-24-2005, 04:26 AM   #20
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Of the 3 FoH in this thread I have the most experience with EQ.  Of the 3 FoH in this thread I have been given the least amount of influence with SOE.
 
Not everything is fair.  Stay on topic and discuss the possible implementation of an AA system and any effects you would like to receive from that, please.
 
I like the idea to shrug off stuns of any type.  I was considering stun resist, but there are fewer physical stuns in EQ2 it seems.  That fits in with limited mental resistance anyway.  Some form of ability to shrug off stuns before their full duration would rock.

Message Edited by Ibishi on 06-23-2005 08:34 PM

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:40 AM   #21
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Lyrus-D wrote: It seems that the devs have asked a handful of people one of them being Noah, "What type of AA's do you want?" First off, what proof is there that you have that is verifiable that anything of the sort happened? There are two problems with that question. One, they should not be asking the players how to design core game system. The second problem is that if they ARE going to ask the players how to design core systems, they shouldn't be asking only a handful of players. Back to the first point, Without any proof that they actually did ask  these handful of players, it would mean you're merely making a speculation, possibly with the intent of defamation.  Second, they don't only ask a handful of players, /feedback has been in the game since it went live for any and every player to make suggestions. The second discussion that is going on is Noah asked, "What type of AA's do you want?" That was the intent of the post, why hijack it and discourage intelligent discussion? If you don't want AA's, fine, it's just a matter of not replying or not even reading the thread to begin with.

Gage already stated earlier in this thread that,  " I mean the devs already listed some type of AAs as a possible inclusion in the game soon (both in the Community Summit write up notes and MG in Sassee's latest ask SOE)."

I going to assume at the fan fair summit (which only a handful of players attended) that a discussion of possible AA's occured. I apologize if I am assuming too much. As for /feedback, you have verifiable information that a large majority of the player base is asking for AA's?

I did not realize that opposing an idea means that I automatically cannot be included in "intelligent discussion". 

I think AA's, implemented as they were in EQ1 are a bad idea for this game. I feel strongely about this issue, and telling me to be quiet because I disagree with the concept is hardly constructive in of itself.

If the AA's did not affect PvE in anyway, I would proabbly not mind them. If AA's ment status items, or perhaps new titles that is fine. But AA's as implemented in EQ1 were a huge turn off for many people.

Message Edited by Migyb on 06-23-2005 08:42 PM

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Old 06-24-2005, 04:45 AM   #22
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My apologies, but with the way you thread-jacked the conversation,  it leads to alot of assumptions. If you have a problem with AA's, then list  your concerns and justify them.  With your current approach you have contributed nothing. Back on Topic please.
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Old 06-24-2005, 05:01 AM   #23
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This whole thread could be considered a necro-post. If you do a forum search on AA's, and set the search to posts older than 180 days you'll see about 9 pages of discussion on AA's. It was a topic that was brought up in beta, and people either hated them or loved them. My personal opinion is the concept is dated and done with. EQ2 is a new game.Rather than band-aiding in more abilities, SOE should just focus on creating more content and raising the level cap. Instead of gaining X ability at level 55 and 10 AA's, you should just get X ability at level 60, or 61 and so on.p.s My last comment on this topic. AA's are bad because you gain power and ablities for no extra challange. The game should increase in difficulty as you progress, not decrease in difficulty because you killed the same monster 10,000 times.

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Old 06-24-2005, 05:33 AM   #24
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I prefer to be more involved in my character's development.  I am somewhat indifferent to "uniqueness" but when it comes to which directions I would like to grow in, I enjoy being able to prioritize.  Games where people discuss "character builds" are exciting to level up in because each level lets you refine your build along a plan you made.  Its more interactive than EQ and EQ2's rigid template system.  So I would actually like more AA mechanisms throughout levelling.
 
One example might be that each level allows you to extend certain skills from a 155 cap to a 160 cap.  then when you're at level 50 you can still earn XP to progress the skillcaps of those skills you didn't consider useful to you when levelling your character at first.  In the end everyone can become the same, but along the way people would be able to make choices and feel more interested in their character.  Currently this ends with gear and spell upgrades, and you don't get a terrible amount of choice there given the inflated status of ALL equipment and the rigid spell structure.  Thats just me fantasizing though.
 
My point being that having a limited amount of control over how you develop is exciting to me.  When you're at the level cap you run out of "new" spells and your choices of improving your gear begin to diminish.  Players need another way to continue to develop to prolong their interest.  Advancement that you can develop in increments is preferred so that you're making some steady progress on those 50 nektropos runs to get that metal chest with the great new baton in it.
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Old 06-24-2005, 08:08 AM   #25
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AA's are a carrot, getting free stuff when you level is all fine and dandy but the sole purpose of AA is to keep people interested and playing. I dont think its really up for debate, Sony knows theyre going to lose even more players if they dont have a carrot to chase. They have to cater to both ends of the spectrum, not just one, its their job.
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Old 06-24-2005, 08:33 AM   #26
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I've always felt the problem with AAs is that you end up having 'must haves' for every class as they level and reach the point where you can start AA grinding. EQ used AAs as a crutch for some problems that plagued the game from the get go... i.e. the mage ability to have a pet totally ignore everything. That should have been something given to mages but no, you had to work for it.

That said, things I would like to see:

- Add a crit % for normal attacks. Does 2x damage and 100 hate.
- Focus ability that let's us shunt some of our damage to our power pool. Short term, long refresh, more of a desperation move.
- % increase of hate in our taunts.
- % increase of the effects of our buffs.
- Focus ability that prevents us from attacking but our defense goes up by 50% or some other significant number. Short term, long refresh, another desperation move.

Mainly, I would rather the AA system mirror the Realm Rewards of DAoC than what EQ has. As in, extras that add to your overall utility but aren't wholly necessary to enjoy the game.

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Old 06-24-2005, 10:30 AM   #27
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In my defense, nobody was taken aside at the Summit and asked about AAs at all, it was one of the topics brought up in the open forum, and it was touched on lightly, mostly with Scott and a few others saying that yes, eventually some sort of AA system would make its way into EQ2, but they were very aware of the negatives of the system in EQ1.
 
This much was shown in the Community Summit write up on the main EQ2 site shortly after the Fan Faire was over.
 
Also, as I stated, in Sassee's latest Ask SOE at the vault at IGN Moorgard also touched on the AA question, stating pretty much the same thing Scott said.
 
So whether or not some sort of AAs will see EQ2 eventually isn't the question, they will.  The only question is what/how/when it will be implemented, to which course I believe Noah's post came about.
 
Now, if you do not agree/want an AA system, by all means post your opinion.  I just thought bashing our tag was lame.
 
In my particular instance I was invited to the Summit well before I wore the tag, and way before I was a raider.  I was invited on my own merits.
 
Besides, as Sigon stated, he wasn't at FF or the Summit at all, so everyone thinking that we have the dev team on speed dial getting whatever we want are way off base.
 
Anyway, sorry for the offtopic, I just hate comments like that being made.
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:38 AM   #28
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F these boards...just ate original post, rewriting now... Blind hatred and stupidty towards anyone with an FoH tag is ridiculous.  Can argue the fact about early testing, but cant ignore their contributions to the community and the quality of these forums.  I am not a fanboy, i'm an officer of another raid guild on permafrost and the idea that FoH gets every contestable mob, rides on the shoulders of chariots being pulled by gm's, and are gods of EQ2 is ridiculous.  I've had run ins with some of their individuals, but as a group they are positive.  When were getting organized to zone into an instance, all that's said between the 2 camps is "hello"'s and "GL"'s.  Being stubborn and not willing to back down sometimes makes someone rub off like an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  Everytime i see gaige's sig i think about The monk thread.  It didnt make me happy, but at least he had the balls to step and say something that he felt was unjust and at least relevent given previous descriptions of classes.  Trying to point out common sense and reality to some of you. My contribution to the AA discussion. I see a few ways of handling AA's.  The standard EQlive way, points put into mass amounts of passive skills and a few special abilities.  I personlly, really enjoyed EQlive's AA system.  I felt the balance between class defining, general utility, and class utility in every aspect.  I do however feel there might be a better way about doing it. There are 2 ways that came to mind, first points are spent to unlock new traits (similar to racial and class based).  But i feel the better way is as follows. Essentially the new system is the same, teird,  points are aquired through exp but this time, spent on augmentation's or a better word, bonuses for existing skills.  After a certaion number of points are spent an option to "purchase" a new specialized bonus or Trait (think Braskan's or an adept 4 version of a skill).  The majority of the augmentations would be availible to every class, and would follow in the footsteps of eqlive; + resists, stats, hps, agi etc etc.  The next teir would allow for more specialized and powerful, but only a limited number of these special bonuses may be used.  Natural caps exist based upon the total number of buff/attacks slots open for bonuses.  This allows for a chance for deep progression, but also class builds. Augmentations can only be used once.  Skill types could have different numbers of slots, say buffs have 3, attacks have 1-2 depending on timer. A few example of rule sets for balance: Buying a +100 fire aug for a single target (or self buff), thrown into a group buff say Return to battle adds +20/25. Examples of purchasable augmentations for buffs: +100 fire/cold/etc +2str/sta etc +parry/dodge/riposte Examples of class based augmentations: +miti crush/slash/peirce +spell avoid + % to hp buffs Examples of purchasable augmentations for attacks: +Chance to crit +stun +increase hate +debuff melee resistance Examples of the purchasable traits: -Passive skill that has a % chance to proc hate -Cross encounter AE taunt If there were 50->100 types of augmentations to choose from it would allow for some very interesting paths, along with the chance for very customized character design.  This is a very rough idea, and it would require alot of balancing but given the time, I feel it could turn into a very rewarding and unique system.

Message Edited by TempestHammer on 06-24-2005 12:39 AM

Message Edited by TempestHammer on 06-24-2005 01:26 AM

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Old 06-24-2005, 12:08 PM   #29
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Main issue i see with AA is that i doenst help any one to be more special than other.

The More you play the more AA you can gather.

Best will be some type of achetype AA, where once you "buy" one AA it open new skills choice, but grey previous skils.

At first we can choose between 3 starting AA (  HP/Stat oriented, Avoidance/Mitigation/Resist oriented, Dmg/Taunt Oriented ).

And then we could advance in the skill tree to get special customization.

Of course we could at any time respect our skils tree at a small AA loss ( like 10-20%).

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Old 06-24-2005, 02:41 PM   #30
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Most AA abilities I would like to see have already been mentioned by Noah and others.  Add this one to the list, though: 

Special knockback attack which moves the mob X feet in the direction the guardian is facing.  This could either have a significant effect (e.g., 10 feet knockback) with a long recast time or it could knock the mob a mere foot or two back with a recast time of 10 seconds or so.  Alternatively, the AA ability could simply modify all the attacks in a given line of combat arts (e.g., the various shield bash arts or the Blast line.)


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