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Old 05-12-2005, 12:15 AM   #91
Ethi

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Actually you could do what they do on the EQ team.  They tend to not allow testers to loot or do certain things for new events.  I mean finding out whats in the metal box isn't really necessary for testing.  And on events and things I'd think people could be transported to disconnected parts of content to test specific functions.  Again this is how I've seen it done when testing updates for EQ...
 
But there are some areas where people will get some knowledge and as you say it is unavoidable...
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:22 AM   #92
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LuckyPSD wrote:
Amount of ACTUAL testing experience you have- ooo shame thats the biggie right there.

See thats what its about, this guild has been doing testing work for alot of years where as alot of other people who are now asking why it wasn't them has absolutly no testing experience and thats what the devs need, not some one who can play the game well and kill the uberest of uber bosses but some one who can actually test it properly and give good feedback. 

Ding ding ding.. someone gets it. (I'm not on Permaforst, and I'm not in an uber guild)...

If you want more proof that this is a prime motivator look at 99% of the comments on these forums.  The extent of the feedback is usually:

OMG I was (soloing/raiding/etc.) this mob and it killed (me/us).  This game sucks.

or

OMG I was (soloing/raiding/etc.) this mob and it was too easy.  This game sucks.

As someone who has run development groups and IT departments for years, let me say, everyone thinks they make a good tester.  The reality is, testing, *really truly* testing something is boring, tedious and annoying work that few people have the attention or articulation to do correctly. It's one thing to find a bug.  It's another to find out how to reproduce it (here's a hint, if you can't reproduce it, don't even bother reporting it, *way* too many variables to hunt through).  Finally you then have to be able to articulate: the problem, the method by which to reproduce it *and* what you believe should be correct behavio(u)r of the affected system.

Hell just look at this thread... 99% whining, 1% valid and/or well articulated arguement.

Regards,

Osiri (oggok & test)

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Old 05-12-2005, 01:12 AM   #93
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otlg wrote:


LuckyPSD wrote:
Amount of ACTUAL testing experience you have- ooo shame thats the biggie right there.

See thats what its about, this guild has been doing testing work for alot of years where as alot of other people who are now asking why it wasn't them has absolutly no testing experience and thats what the devs need, not some one who can play the game well and kill the uberest of uber bosses but some one who can actually test it properly and give good feedback. 

Ding ding ding.. someone gets it. (I'm not on Permaforst, and I'm not in an uber guild)...

If you want more proof that this is a prime motivator look at 99% of the comments on these forums.  The extent of the feedback is usually:

OMG I was (soloing/raiding/etc.) this mob and it killed (me/us).  This game sucks.

or

OMG I was (soloing/raiding/etc.) this mob and it was too easy.  This game sucks.

As someone who has run development groups and IT departments for years, let me say, everyone thinks they make a good tester.  The reality is, testing, *really truly* testing something is boring, tedious and annoying work that few people have the attention or articulation to do correctly. It's one thing to find a bug.  It's another to find out how to reproduce it (here's a hint, if you can't reproduce it, don't even bother reporting it, *way* too many variables to hunt through).  Finally you then have to be able to articulate: the problem, the method by which to reproduce it *and* what you believe should be correct behavio(u)r of the affected system.

Hell just look at this thread... 99% whining, 1% valid and/or well articulated arguement.

Regards,

Osiri (oggok & test)




For someone who suppose to run an IT department, you need some common sense. FOH (or any quild) is not copied to the Test Server  to run QA testing. They are there to test the Raid Encounters for Ease/Difficulty. They are there to find the Strategy to defeat the encounter. They are there to find ways to do something that SOE didn't think of. Sure they might not have to complete the quests to get there (possibly they do), but they sure get to fight the encounter as it is intended to go to live. Sure changes will be made based on this, but the encounter will eventually reach an acceptable level based on this testing. Of which, FOH will have the strategy already.

There is NO WAY, they are going to pull a bunch of MMO gamers to do real testing and bug reporting. FOH or any other guild is there for one reason and one reason only, to get to see the content first. It gives an advantage.

If this was also common in EQ, then that explains why FOH was normally the FIRST to complete the end game encounters. They had knowledge of the encounter before it was even released.

EQ2 gives incentives for being first to complete things. Giving them access to new encounters and expansions is fine. Just don't allow anyone copied to Test to obtain the special titles or World First status. This would make it fair to everyone (Even though I doubt FOH would participate anymore in the so called tests).

Let FOH (or any other guild copied to Test) be the first to kill uber mob1. Who cares now as we all know they get time to perfect their strategy on Test so them being first means NOTHING anymore.

 

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Old 05-12-2005, 01:23 AM   #94
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KerowynnKaotic wrote:


Bravnik wrote:

ganjookie wrote:


Marlow wrote:
*snipped*
Message Edited by Marlow on 05-10-200509:49 PM

*snipped*



Again, this is all fine and dandy. However, I assure you FOH does not test this stuff to help out SOE. They would only do this if they got something in return. That something is a first look at the upcomming high end content. That knowledge is CRUCIAL because it gives them a HUGE advantage in a game that gives Titles and Specail consideration for World Firsts.

*snipped* 

The point is by copying over an ENTIRE Raiding Guild,  it lets them build their strategy and get access to the content way before anyone else. This gives them an unfair advantage in a game that recognises World / Server firsts. Take away that recognition and you take away the issue. Sure they can still waltz around preening that they were the first to kill something. But now we all know that they really are not all that good. They just got to practive on Test over and over again until they got it right....So LAME!



You are assuming that SoE is putting that whole guild inside of the entire event.

I assume they let in enough to beat the event. You can make that assumption because there would be NO point in sending any less as they would wipe immediatly which would allow little to no usable data. Think before you post please.

Well, in some cases they might be but I would guess the testing would be way more involved than that.  I would guess that the testing is actually in a lot of bits and pieces.  I know they can rig several events that they give the players full suits of specific armor/weapons and even certain skills and spells.   I don't doubt that they do something similar with testing.  The only difference in that they have probably several guilds whom they use as /copycharacter to test to do Final Runs on various different Final Events options, using their own mix-match armor/weapons/skills/spells to see how it will really play out in a live situation.    

I doubt every seriously that the testing would be more than simply saying, "here is the encounter, good luck".  

There is a big difference between for Event #22's Final Run #1 and Final Run #16 of which could be tested/tweaked by several different Live Server Guilds and/or Test Server Guilds before it become Completed Event #22.

Yes but the end result would be an encounter that is difficult to almost impossable for FOH to defeat, thus making it difficult to almost impossable for any guild given FOH's status. The end result would still be that FOH has information that every other guild does not have.....giving them World Firsts or Special Titles for defeating encounters they helped design is just wrong. Or do you not agree.

Again, I could care less if its FOH or any other End Game Guild. It just happens to be FOH in this instance.




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Old 05-12-2005, 01:30 AM   #95
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Again, this is all fine and dandy. However, I assure you FOH does not test this stuff to help out SOE. They would only do this if they got something in return. That something is a first look at the upcomming high end content. That knowledge is CRUCIAL because it gives them a HUGE advantage in a game that gives Titles and Specail consideration for World Firsts.

Getting people to test your end game stuff is fine. Just don't copy an entire RAIDING guild over to Test and allow them to prefect their straegy before anyone else even knows the content is in the game. That is the same as Insider Trading on the stock market. It is UNFAIR to the rest of the public as one guild has the knowledge. One guild already has their strategy to defeat the encounter before 99% of the other guilds even know their is an encounter to begin with.

If you do feel you need to have an entire Raiding Guild copied over, then you need to make it to where they DON'T get credit for World Firsts or Server Firsts...EVER. That would make it fair to everyone else. I don't care it its FOH or any other Raiding Guild. If they are copied over, then they should NOT get credit for World/Server Firsts.

Do you think FOH (or any other guild for that matter) would be so willing to help out on Test if they didn't get World/Server discoveries? I doubt it. So if you need some incentive for them to test, give them ALL free accounts if they help test.

The point is by copying over an ENTIRE Raiding Guild,  it lets them build their strategy and get access to the content way before anyone else. This gives them an unfair advantage in a game that recognises World / Server firsts. Take away that recognition and you take away the issue. Sure they can still waltz around preening that they were the first to kill something. But now we all know that they really are not all that good. They just got to practive on Test over and over again until they got it right....So LAME!


( when I mention FoH, I mean all of the guilds SOE is using, as I am aware it is not just one guild. Its just easier to say that, as most people don't use most of thier brain to comprehend that.  My apologies FoH in using your name in any disrespectful way) Are you on the test server? SOE has trust in FoH, thats all I care about.  I'm not here to debate about FoH and how they get game/server firsts.  I don't care who finds what first really.  It wont make my pecker any bigger or smaller if I find one or not.  Even though FoH is on MY server, what they do has no effect on me what so ever.  Ok well maybe the Plague  cure did ( thanks guys) but I don't give a flying rats [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] who found what.  If there is info on on a certain item that would benefiet me, cool.  If not oh well. This is not Wall Street, this is a online game enviroment created and provided for us by SOE, they make the decisions, they are [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing GOD!  if you disagree with God, then you are s.o.l. because God is everything and is always right, in his opinion. ( Don't quote Dogma to me, its just a movie). Good day sir

[edit: removed unnecesary quotes]

Message Edited by ganjookie on 05-11-2005 02:34 PM

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Old 05-12-2005, 01:30 AM   #96
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So heres the real question, did any of the Devs/Soe Representatives have prior relationships with the people in this guild?  Or was it just that the CRS people and devs, watch every server see who is the best and then selected FoH.  I'd like to know the answer to that.  honestly if this was a competing guild on my server I would very mad.
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Old 05-12-2005, 01:48 AM   #97
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Nice of you to point out my post twice Gage. It further explains that I am not bragging as I have not mentioned any guild name nor accomplishments. I have talked with members of different guilds on other servers and I am going with what I hear from them.
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Old 05-12-2005, 01:51 AM   #98
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not a single title or world first gained from any activities on test.  the vague "what-ifs" are netertaining, but if you have specific doubts about what we do, go on and ask.  They will be answered.  FoH has nothing to hide.  We have done nothing even close to what some have accused, and have benefited very little from our ability to test content.  I'll say again, the only encounter we tested was the adventure pack, and as a previous guildie mentioned, it was broken.  We didn't test it ever again because of how long the event takes to get through (you know what I mean).  We were assured the event would be less broken before live, thanked for our trouble, and left be.  As far as I know the event never even got fixed on test before it went live.  And was toned back even more quite recently. No, we didn't get to try the mob in his actual form.  He was unwinnable when we tested it.  We didn't get to see his loot because we didn't kill him.  We didn't know about the artifact item until it was already up on ogaming by a guild that did not get copied to test.  And you can be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sure that is a great guild.  I'm not aware which one it was, but hats off to them. Enough with the "what-if" bull.  None of the "what-ifs" have been committed by FoH.  If an event goes to live we either can or can't beat it ON LIVE, and thats all that matters to us.  We don't rush to test upon every change and parse every event and hours of grind data to enter into our supercomputer for analysis.  I have recently logged to test to solo a white con heroic fire giant, and /feedbacked "fabled gear is too strong".  I've got a full white suit of fabled plate.  Its completely in my interest to have fabled equipment beefed up.  Why in hell would I report that my stuff is too good?  Maybe because I'm tired of the game being trivial kthx.  I also logged in to see that kite and tower shields are now identical in shield factor - to my dismay.  I disagree with it, but there are other changes in the works I'm unaware of.  In either case I don't have some red phone to send my personal thoughts on balance back to the developers.  Thats why I'm on these forums writing up my thoughts just like the rest of you schmucks(sp?). Thank you for all the support, even though much of it has nothing to do with personal aspects of FoH.  The majority of the negative comments are out of line and off-topic.  Yes, we are the best guild on Permafrost.  Last time the epics were difficult only FoH stayed standing.  That won't change.  I hope I get the chance to prove it.   edit - gage, you know that guy?  who is he in NPU?  some clownshoes from that guild sent some pretty stupid tells.  apparently a few of them want to extend their e-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] beyond just one server.

Message Edited by Ibishi on 05-11-2005 05:54 PM

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Old 05-12-2005, 02:11 AM   #99
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Shennron wrote:
Nice of you to point out my post twice Gage.
You're welcome.
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Old 05-12-2005, 02:11 AM   #100
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KerowynnKaotic wrote:


Shennron wrote:
Thats all I could look for in someone wanting to test MY game out.  FoH will probably get  the first look at content anyhow, as they are well organized and hardcore players...
 
I beg to differ on this statement. Who says they will be the first to look at this content anyhow on live servers? I know many guilds on Permafrost that are probably hardcore players too not to mention all the other servers and guilds that have hardcore players. You are in the mind set that FoH is the best when numerous guilds can take out any mob out there right now. Guilds have different playing times and not to mention there are guilds that are more hardcore then FoH, the ones that can set up a raid at anytime of the day as soon as a mob pops and kill instead of waiting for primetime.


Disclaimer: I am not a FoH camp follower ... my thoughts & conculsions are just stuff that I have picked up from guildchat/ooc/tells/etc ...

Well .. it is true that FoH of EQ2 isn't "quite" the same as FoH of EQ1.  Different leaders I would presume since Furor was taken to the darkside plus the guild itself is split off into 3 different games each with a different Game/Guild Leader. 

That being said, FoH still retains it's reputation of being a very skilled group of players.  FoH looks for and recruits those players that do show an increased awareness of mob mentality as well as dedication to be Top Dog.  BTW, for those of you out there measuring your e-manhood there are several different ways to be Top Dog.  *rolls her eyes at the silly males* 

My guess would be FoH is having a hard time right now in EQ2 keeping a solid group together during a full day is due to several issues ..

  • 1) Only so much content for Maxed EXP players.
  • 2) Part of the Guild is/was testing pre-live stuff. 
  • 3) Only so much content for Maxed EXP Players.

*shrug* I repeated because unfortunetly it's true.  I "presume" there is more Hard-Core Raid options on the horizon but those that have a need to measure their said e-manhood against other player's e-manhood have the NEED for it RIGHT NOW and not 2 - 6 months down the road.   *rolls her eyes at the silly males* 

TRUE. 

For True Hard-Core Raiders .. Once the Event itself is Broken (2 wins in row usually) then it is BROKEN to that guild.  Afterwards, it is considered FARMING.  Farming to most Hard-Core Raiders is B-O-R-I-N-G.   Just because [Guild Insert Name] can log on and race to a pop and kill it before FoH even musters a group doesn't mean they are out of the running, could just mean they generally feel that mob is of low priority.   Btw, for True Hard-Core Raiders even the draw of specific lewt isn't always enough for them to redo events they consider Broken because it's not the lewt it's the accomplishment of doing the kill.  After you have killed the mob .. what's the point? ...

So VERY TRUE!

I know for a fact that my guild in EQ2 isn't the same guild as in EQ1.  We don't have our real leader(s) for starters.  That's the problem with new games.  The guild itself breaks up into various different shards of that guild, each a bit more diluted than the former but each comes with it a chance to fail or suceed. 

So far in EQ2 while i haven't heard any rabid ramblings of FoH's successes, I have heard the quiet murmur of them and at the same time I haven't heard anywhere near as many bad things about them as I have about several other large guilds on Perma.   This tells me that they are doing well enough and that they have chosen well enough of their people that those people don't need to go around making life miserable for anyone they cross paths with just because they believe themselves to be "Uber" ...  In other words, they do their jobs and enjoy what they do.   



I was trying hard to refrain from entering this discussion, but find it unbearable and disconcerning that some of you criticize SOE for copying FoH chars to test server and, even more troubling to me, is that some have attempted to slander, in true bad faith, the reputation of FoH as the an uber guild.   So I reluctantly enter the fray.
 
I am a member of FoH.   The Merovingian I am.   For those who criticize SoE for copying our characters to test, your arguments are either factually untrue, incorrect, or solely based on jealousy.   In either case, you are completely wrong in your conclusions.   Trust me when I say this, we provide a benefit to SOE and to all of its player base.  We have tried to assist in making this game the best it can be.   We test this content for all of you, not for ourselves or discovering some secret strategy.  Not once has anyone in guild chat said anything about some secret method to killing a mob they found while testing it.   We honestly don't think that way.  We kill mobs they want us to fight, they observe, they adjust, the game benefits.   We do not provide any testing services for anything other than raid content or general combat.  Occassionally a developer has zoned us in small groups to an area to fight different mobs and often making us mentor down and then testing normal and named mobs.  ( the last few times I did it, we fought in sol eye and was asked to mentor down.)   We don't search for quests like the Froglok's in the hopes of unlocking them first.  It would be a waste of time for us to do so, plus it would be a breach of SOE trust to play on test for the sole purpose of having server firsts.  Not once, as anyone mentioned anything about finding the Froglok's quest on test, or any other game breaking quest.   In fact, NOT one time has anyone in my guild ever asked to do anything on test other than test raid content, ....often with the presence of a developer.    We don't look for hidden quests or great items.  We don't tradeskill on test.  In fact, the times I have been on test, we don't even look at the loot.   We don't care.  We are there solely to test the content and for the developers to observe raid and combat encounters in person and to make necessary changes.   It isn't that big of deal as most of you make it.   But in the end, you all reap the benefits from it.  
 
Furthermore, we never do anything on test so as to give us an advantage on having server firsts.  You might not believe this, but at no time during guild chat have I ever seen someone say "I just got server first for ...."     It isn't a big deal for our guild.  The only thing FoH cares about is raiding successfully.  The server firsts will come, and so will the loot eventually.    No one tracks that kind of stuff for our guild.  I have no idea how many server firsts I have, or Alloria or Noah.  Don't care.  I don't think they care.  The only thing they care about it is focusing on the next mob we fight and defeating it, and most of all, having fun.
 
Moreover, and trust me when I say this, we would have the same server firsts with or without having tested the raid content.  We have always killed every mob we have encountered the same night we first fight it.   Heck, I remember when Vox was doing 8000 aoe damage and no guild could kill it.  It was bugged and was instant death for everyone for a few weeks back in February(?).   We killed it on our second attempt.  Other guilds didnt even try it as they knew it would be an utter waste of their time. Ardent Legion might have.  I don't know.  But (.....they know who they are.....) watched us and I remember their members sending me tells in utter amazement.   Also, we have killed Cursed with 10 peeps before he was nerfed.   And on both occasions we hadn't tested either encounter.    It wouldn't have made a difference.   So to say we get a leg up on everybody is pointless and untrue.  FoH killed Venekor first on PF and had never tested it before, and killed it the first night. 
 
In addition, we don't test every raid mob, at least I haven't on test, and yet, when a mob or zone goes live, we still clear the zone or raid mob without any problems.   Our success has nothing to do with testing raid content.   Every encounter we have fought in this game wouldn't have changed had we not been on test.  In fact, truth be told, we would probably be even better without being on test since sometimes when we killed a mob on test we might take the encounter for granted in live server and not focus or concentrate as much.  
 
Moreover, we only test the raid content in its "final beta" stage.  Often, the mob is more difficult when we first encounter it on live server as a result of having defeated it on test and the developers making it tougher for live or adding a few final new abilities, ie. Arch Lich, King Zalak.   I believe on both occasions new abilities were added to the live Arch Lich without ever hitting test.  Yet, we still defeated it the first go around.   
 
As for those egregious, mean-spirited, jealousy-ridden, unsupported, slanderous statements about FoH and its ranking among the top guilds in game, and its difficulty in maintaining a 24 man raid party, I will say this...... First, it isn't necessary right now for FoH to gather 24 chars to kill any mob in game.   Every mob can be killed with 18 or less.   Second, Kerowynnkaotic is right, there is only so much content in game right now for maxed out characters.   Alot have left.  I rarely play anymore.  Maybe once a week.  Been 50 since January I think.   Fighting the same static mobs every night gets old.  But our membership still has the best players in game in my opinion.   I have no doubt on that.  I have played almost every MMORPG there is.  Been in the "uber guilds" and can honestly say that FoH has always had dedicated, intelligent, very skillful, and disciplined players.  Some have left.  Alot are still playing.   FoH has and will always have the ranking as a top guild.  Alloria is a great guild leader.  Amazingly intelligent in his knowledge of gameplay and strategy.  Same goes for Noah and Mystque and Faille.  As long as FoH has them, they will succeed against any mob, any time, with any raid party.   But we are not the only uber guild and don't claim to be, there are others like Ardent Legion.  We know that, but to criticize FoH and slander there good name is uncalled for.    The game isn't set up right now for true hard core players that enjoy the challenge of defeating the epic mob, rather than farming the loot.  Once you have killed Venekor and Darathar and Vox a hundred times (guessing), it gets boring.    
 
But you are correct, palyers have left FoH, ...But players will always leave.  Especially right now when the content is limited for those of us used to tremendous amounts of content.  Hardcore players have been spoiled by other games including EQL.  We expect that now, and are saddened when we log in and find the same small amount of raid mobs by comparison.   FoH has lost some great players because of this.  But they replenish the ranks.  You all have to remember FOH only recruits hardcore, serious, skillful players.   Those types have a tendency to want to be proactive in gameplay and conquer new encounters.  If that isn't happening, they get bored and move on to dominate another game.   Our members are not the casual, level up to 50 in 6 months type of players who play for the quests and just for the sake of logging in to waste some time.   They are driven for a common goal.  If that goal is acheived then they move on to the next mob, but eventually in this game in its infant stages, no goals are left.   So they are forced to replenish more often than other casual guilds with members who are not so driven to succeed.  Its the nature of the beast.  But they have always succeeded in doing so, and will certainly continue. 
 
As for me, I love this game.  Graphics are great.  Quests for levels 1-49 are terrific.   But when you have been 50 for months and months, the game seems to disappoint.  Not a knock on SOE.  They can only do so much in its early stages like now.   I am confident that in time they will focus on the level 50 player base and provide tremendous amounts of content including quests and raids to satisfy our appetite.    But right now, it is really only the Fire and Ice/Deception quests, and maybe one or two more smaller ones that have any relevancy for us.  Sad but true.   As a result, alot of my friends and playmates have left  after hitting 50.  Alot!  And I find myself rarely eager to log in.  In fact, I logged in last night for the simple reason of soloing a lvl 50 double up grouped mob and then soloing Iceberg and Tundra Jack(x2).  I am a lvl 50 Wizard.  That brings me to another point, ....when a lvl 50 Wizard or Warlock can solo a lvl 50 Grouped ^^ mob and a lvl 50 x2 mob, then something is wrong.  The game is a little out of wack.  Not that we need to be nerfed, but encounters need to be made more difficult especailly raid mobs
 
As for those comments about there not being much difference between guilds at this point in time.  No, there isn't.   Why?  Because the raid mobs are way to easy.   It doesn't take much effort to be successful  Why?  Because alot of guilds who are unsuccessful in raiding come to the forums and whine.  They whine until a raid mob is nerfed.   There was a time when Krathuk and Zalak and others spawned numerous adds, uncontrollably, unlimited in number, and neither Atro....., or any other guild on our server could kill them,...except us.   People whined.  SOE caved in.  Mobs became easier.  
 
This game isn't like EQL in the disparity right now in raid content.  It is difficult to separate one guild from another.  There was a time when Darathar was difficult.  FoH killed him the first night.  Ardent Legion was the only other guild to have prismatics.  But what happened,......Darathar was nerfed.  Now everyone can kill him.  The line for separation amongst the guilds is not there right now.   But at every turn when a line can be drawn, FoH is always at the top.  Atrocious and other guilds can act like they keep up at those moments, but they know they don't.  Eventually they kill it after the nerf, then say......"FoH ain't so tough."   But those moments for disparity are few and far between right now.    Time will help cure that.  But for now, guilds want to brag about keeping up with AL and FoH, as if it is some uber achievement especially considering the low level of difficulty in killing raid mobs and expecially considering that it shouldn't matter what FoH or AL does or kills or whether you can do it too.  Most of us strive for the challenge of defeating a terribly difficult epic mob.  We want to spend hours on end fighting that ultimate challenge only to lose time and again until we finally succeed.  That is the high or joy we seek.  Not farming.  Any guild in this game can gather enough peeps to kill any mob any time.  Its too easy.   Does FoH sit at the computer waiting for Nagalik to spawn?  No.  Why?  The challenge isnt there.  If it was, we could gather enough at anytime of day.   Anytime a new mobs enters the fray, we are there, first in line, waiting for the challenge, only to defeat it and walk away with pride, often not caring about the loot or number of rubies we get.   That is not the purpose for us.  It is the challenge!
 
Everyone should just play the game for fun, do the best they can, and not defeat mobs for the sake of saying "FoH killed it, and so did we.....ergo we are awesome."   In time, the top guilds will set themselves apart.  Have no doubt my friends.  
 
So, in conclusion, let your jealousy of testing content leave you, see the benefit we provide to the game, be happy someone is testing the content to make this game the best it can be or we hope it to be, and, further, ..........brag if you must about keeping up with FoH, denouce their ranking among the top guilds, but remember it isn't so terribly difficult right now to keep up  .  When it was difficult, .......very few did, ........and in time, very few will.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Message Edited by MerovingianII on 05-11-2005 03:22 PM

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Old 05-12-2005, 02:13 AM   #101
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Bravnik wrote:


For someone who suppose to run an IT department, you need some common sense.


And you need some manners, but moving on...


Bravnik wrote:

FOH (or any quild) is not copied to the Test Server  to run QA testing. They are there to test the Raid Encounters for Ease/Difficulty. They are there to find the Strategy to defeat the encounter. They are there to find ways to do something that SOE didn't think of.


Wow this sure sounds like QA testing to me... Make sure the product (in this case content) functions as expected without any unexpected loopholes, errors or omissions.... sound exactly like QA to me. 


Bravnik wrote:

There is NO WAY, they are going to pull a bunch of MMO gamers to do real testing and bug reporting.


Apparently they have.. so that would make you wrong.. but again.. moving on... 


Bravnik wrote:

FOH or any other guild is there for one reason and one reason only, to get to see the content first. It gives an advantage.

Let FOH (or any other guild copied to Test) be the first to kill uber mob1. Who cares now as we all know they get time to perfect their strategy on Test so them being first means NOTHING anymore.


 

So you admit you are complaining for no reason then.. good, glad you realize that now.

 

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Old 05-12-2005, 02:14 AM   #102
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Ibishi wrote:
gage, you know that guy?  who is he in NPU?  some clownshoes from that guild sent some pretty stupid tells.  apparently a few of them want to extend their e-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] beyond just one server.

Yeah, his in-game name is Shennron too; and in his defense he doesn't seem like the kind of guy to me that would be sending stupid tells cross-server, although there are a lot of those "uber kiddie" types in NPU.

He is just a member afaik, not an officer or anything; one of their healers.

But I would just dismiss it, as the majority of their attitude comes from one of their leaders, Poac who is a little too much on the 1337 uber kiddie side.

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Old 05-12-2005, 02:22 AM   #103
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ganjookie wrote:


Again, this is all fine and dandy. However, I assure you FOH does not test this stuff to help out SOE. They would only do this if they got something in return. That something is a first look at the upcomming high end content. That knowledge is CRUCIAL because it gives them a HUGE advantage in a game that gives Titles and Specail consideration for World Firsts.

Getting people to test your end game stuff is fine. Just don't copy an entire RAIDING guild over to Test and allow them to prefect their straegy before anyone else even knows the content is in the game. That is the same as Insider Trading on the stock market. It is UNFAIR to the rest of the public as one guild has the knowledge. One guild already has their strategy to defeat the encounter before 99% of the other guilds even know their is an encounter to begin with.

If you do feel you need to have an entire Raiding Guild copied over, then you need to make it to where they DON'T get credit for World Firsts or Server Firsts...EVER. That would make it fair to everyone else. I don't care it its FOH or any other Raiding Guild. If they are copied over, then they should NOT get credit for World/Server Firsts.

Do you think FOH (or any other guild for that matter) would be so willing to help out on Test if they didn't get World/Server discoveries? I doubt it. So if you need some incentive for them to test, give them ALL free accounts if they help test.

The point is by copying over an ENTIRE Raiding Guild,  it lets them build their strategy and get access to the content way before anyone else. This gives them an unfair advantage in a game that recognises World / Server firsts. Take away that recognition and you take away the issue. Sure they can still waltz around preening that they were the first to kill something. But now we all know that they really are not all that good. They just got to practive on Test over and over again until they got it right....So LAME!



( when I mention FoH, I mean all of the guilds SOE is using, as I am aware it is not just one guild. Its just easier to say that, as most people don't use most of thier brain to comprehend that.  My apologies FoH in using your name in any disrespectful way)

Are you on the test server?

Funny you should ask. I have requested NUMEROUS times to be copied to Test. Not even a reply to my direct PMs. I'm one of maybe 60 Coercer 45+ World Wide offering my time to test Coercer Issues and nay a word.

SOE has trust in FoH, thats all I care about.  I'm not here to debate about FoH and how they get game/server firsts.  I don't care who finds what first really.  It wont make my pecker any bigger or smaller if I find one or not.  Even though FoH is on MY server, what they do has no effect on me what so ever.  Ok well maybe the Plague  cure did ( thanks guys) but I don't give a flying rats [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] who found what.  If there is info on on a certain item that would benefiet me, cool.  If not oh well.

FOH just happens to be full of people who don't have a life at all and play EQ/EQ2. They don't trust them, they just happen to be one of the most dedicated guilds in Everquest. The figure if FOH has a hard time defeating their encounters, then anyone will. Simple truth.

I'm glad you don't care who did what or when, but I assure you there are many more people who do. Especially people who complete directly with FOH for the honor of being first to do something. So if you don't care, then fine. I happen too. Not because I compete for them. I'm in a mom and pop Raiding guild. I care because I believe in being fair to everyone. When someone already knows something in a competition, then they have the advantage.

They say they are trying to help. I say BS. If they are just doing it to help, then take away  their ability to get special titles and world firsts. Then lets see.

This is not Wall Street, this is a online game enviroment created and provided for us by SOE, they make the decisions, they are [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing GOD!  if you disagree with God, then you are s.o.l. because God is everything and is always right, in his opinion. ( Don't quote Dogma to me, its just a movie).

LOL - You done sucking ... well you know what. I have every right to voice my opinion on what I think is fair and what is not. Just as you have every right to disagree. SOE is not GOD as I can just stop playing and SOE and can't do anything about it.

Good day sir

And a good day to you.

[edit: removed unnecesary quotes]

Message Edited by ganjookie on 05-11-2005 02:34 PM



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Old 05-12-2005, 02:25 AM   #104
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Bravnik wrote:

FOH just happens to be full of people who don't have a life at all and play EQ/EQ2. They don't trust them.


Congratulations.  Both of those statements are uninformed and petty.

But in context, if that is why FOH gets selected, wouldn't you need to meet the same requirements (no life) in order to test Coercer issues?

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Old 05-12-2005, 02:32 AM   #105
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Gallenite has already responded to the FoH conspiracy theorists out there.  I'm really tired of seeing them bashed when they aren't doing anything wrong.
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