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Old 12-28-2007, 03:58 PM   #1
Bloodfa
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Give them an Evac.

Seriously.  If anyone needs a "boost" in PvP, nobody can argue against these guys being the most needy.  When it comes to classes, everybody wants some other class to get hit with a nerfbat except for the only ones that would be hard-pressed to be more nerfed, and those classes are the Summoners.  I mentioned this idea on another thread, but it kind of left a lingering impression on me.  The point I made was that these are the only classes with a pet, a pet whose sole purpose is to serve and protect their Master.  So ... why not give them an escape spell that forces the pet into a defensive "protect the Master at all costs" mode, with the fighter equivalent of intercept or rescue, assuming they have a tank pet up.  Another crazy thought would be to give the scout pet an early warning system that alerts them when enemies are approaching, tracking, but with a message to the caster along the lines of "Enemies nearby".  Tracking can differentiate between friend or foe, it just would need a different interface once the enemy color cons; instead of the tracking window, a simple visual or audible tell. 

Obviously these are just suggestions, something to get the ball rolling, and would need refinement if they were even possible to implement, but what I'm hoping for are some positive suggestions as to how to give these token dispensers a bit more viability. SMILEY 

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Old 12-28-2007, 04:09 PM   #2
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I had many threads going about 6 or 9 months ago about giving casters some kind of observation ability that warns them of nearby enemies.  I think that would be a great counter to scouts for the clothies.  Tanks/healers that are geared evenly and played well can hold thier own against almost any scout that gets the jump on them, however casters are in some serious trouble.  Giving them a warning system in my mind just makes sense.

I beleive the tank pet for summoners needs a very large tuant boost.  A good tank can lock down 1 player for an entire fight.  While i don't think the pet should match a tank, i do think they should get an auto taunt that fires as soon as the summoner gets hit, that will lock on for a short amonut of time.  Its something that should probably last 2 or 3 seconds, and fire off ever 10 or so.  Im sure numbers would need looked at, but thats how it should go IMO.  Along with using Detaunts, that should help the summoners a bit.

I don't think evac is an option, as there is already a very large voice of new player calling for it to be removed.  Unfortunatly they will probably get it.

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Old 12-28-2007, 06:35 PM   #3
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I'd like to see something City of Villains had with their "summoners" aka masterminds which is the bodyguard mode.  Damage is split in half between you and your pet.  I think this would be a great way to boost summoners.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:11 PM   #4
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The main two problems are that pets no longer taunt and the pet intercept aa doesnt work as well as it should. The pet should taunt ocasionally ( 10 seconds seems about right), with a slight lock ( a second or 2) The pet damage absorb could also use a bit of a boost as well. Another issue I have had, not sure if its a bug or not, is avoidance. I should avoid over 40% of even con attacks, and I usually check my combat log after the fights over...and I can't remember ever avoiding an attack. I'm not sure whats going on with that, if all avoidance is adjusted for pvp maybe? Anyway I don't think major changes are needed to summoners, just adding some defense via pet taunting and intercept doing a bit more, just something to help us last more than a few seconds in a pvp fight.

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Old 12-28-2007, 09:47 PM   #5
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evac... it's our dream

maybe that idea: another way to summoner escape is converting heals to 75% speed in the fight as sprint with mana?

hmmm, or 35% speed from HP + sprint 40% = 75% SMILEY

p.s. sorry for my english 

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Old 12-29-2007, 03:10 AM   #6
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In there current state I don't think a summoner would get evac off against most classes before they die.
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:51 AM   #7
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Evac isn't going to give them the fighting chance they need or a fair chance to attain their PvP gear at a reasonable speed. What is more important (and fun?) - being able to actually win some fights or just being able to flee? How about making their pets taunt better, and give them some more defense so they may survive a little bit longer than 2 seconds against a melee class? They have good damage potential, the problem seems to be that they never survive long enough to unleash it properly. And it also be awesome if pets could keep up, instead of getting there 5 minutes later....
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:28 AM   #8
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Agree

Summoners pets have to be actual in PvP (pet it is not only pet, ...it is pet+tons of buffs on it that become useless in PvP too)

atm most classes just total ignore pets and kills summoners in 4-8 sec

necro have to spend 16 AA! (1+ sta( 4+4+8 )just for a chance to lock player on pet for 2 sec!  it is ridiculous

... and no chance to avoid combat at all (even if we'll get chance once in 1h it is better then nothing)

kill summoner (got infamy) => invite friend and hide near respawn => kill summoner (got infamy for friend)... normal scenario

u'll never do the same with normal char who have evac, advantage in speed or track.

Even my Bruiser alt on Naga when full group of greenblue jumped on him, just waited (yeah, why not with tons of hp+avoidance) when first root break and went away, locked qs in combat...

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Old 12-29-2007, 07:07 AM   #9
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they could definitely use some pet loving.

Speed that pet up.  If they have a taunt pet, make the taunt work right.

Heck, give em an avoidance bonus from frontal attacks too!

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Old 12-29-2007, 12:34 PM   #10
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 Subject: Re:An idea or two to give Summoners some love ...Idea : get a group.
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Old 12-29-2007, 01:11 PM   #11
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  A 'blink' spell that works. Maybe with a short range, random teleport that puts you into a 5 second Invis. It could give the mage enough time to plan his next move, get a spell off, or just avoid the onslaught for a few secs...Something that actually works like magic, since we are a 'Mage' class. A scout pet that can fire off a bow if the person gets out of melee range, perhaps with a knockdown or snare. It dosent even have to work 100% of the time, I'd like to see my scout pet shoot something. Taunts for the tank pet or some kind of 'intercept' would be cool. I do like running with my scout pet, so if any changes happen, I hope its not gonna force me to use the tank pet to have a better chance of survival. Call servant insta cast on the run, cause the pet follow issue seems like it will never be resolved SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" /> Even if no changes happen, I'll still be playing my necro and sucking it all up...
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Old 12-29-2007, 08:47 PM   #12
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can i please get a reroll button for this crap class that has no business being in pvp other than to be a token giver.
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Old 12-30-2007, 11:27 AM   #13
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Rename summoners "deer" and rename all other classes "hunters" Change the name on the game to "Deer or Hunter." Package and resell. Problem solved :p
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:33 PM   #14
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As a necro the main thing that really boils my blood is the huge resists I encounter. Yellows , I can handle the resists with and think. "well he is a higher lvl and deservers to resist like that.", But when greens and blues seem to resist the same as the higher lvl countrparts. I tend to be concerned on my ability to protect my self or even engage in pvp combat anymore when i attack . Target runs, then relaizes im a summoner with low hps , turns around resists all my Ad3's and master fear "good up to lvl 86" and stabs me to death like the fool i was to let my presence be known. My hostel spells hit right on 90% of the time, my defence spells are the exact oposite. On a side note people are learning that swarm spells can be out run till you out range them , swarm returns to caster and just stands there while you get beat on. I hate the pet swarm range nerf with a passion just becouse of that. But as i always say oh well , summoners can bring home the loots better than any class, mabye we should just stay in are dungens =/
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Old 12-31-2007, 05:45 PM   #15
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Getting a group with a Summoner means nothing against another group.  The secondary or tertiary damage dealer will remove them as an afterthought.  Hell, they tend to drop just from secondary damage from AOE's.

Resists are screwed up clear across the board, I don't see that being fixed in the immediate future, but that's just an assumption. 

Why servants can't keep up after all this time still confuses me.  They should come with a perma-SoW.  It's not like they get tired, or follow reluctantly.  I know if an NPC is attacking, they don't seem to have much difficulty staying on top of their target.  So far the general concensus seems to be that the pets need some reworking, both in speed and utility.  There's a start.

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Old 12-31-2007, 07:48 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

Why servants can't keep up after all this time still confuses me.  They should come with a perma-SoW.  It's not like they get tired, or follow reluctantly.  I know if an NPC is attacking, they don't seem to have much difficulty staying on top of their target.  So far the general concensus seems to be that the pets need some reworking, both in speed and utility.  There's a start.

Pet follow is totally bugged...

Here's some interesting stuff I've found out on this issuehttp://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=401519

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Old 12-31-2007, 11:51 PM   #17
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Well the 77 undead knight has a buit in 40% run speed but in RoK zones he seems to think about my orders before he executes them..... He would have been dishonerably discharged along time ago. =p  But in all pre RoK zone if i say attack hes on the ball. Somthing is really wrong with the RoK pathing as far as pets are concrened.
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Old 01-02-2008, 12:45 AM   #18
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When unengaged from PVE/PVP combat establish a leash for the pet.  Establish a maximum distance limit a pet ca nget from it's owner and when the pet hits that limit it resets/teleports back to the owner.

Mob pathing is BORKED in eq2.   You could give a pet 200% out of combat run speed and it still wouldn't be able to keep up with it's owner.  The devs have been trying to fix mob pathing since beta, so they are not going to fix it overnight for summoners in pvp.

Step 2.  Make pets work better in combat.

When in PVP combat tank pets should taunt more often and/or have better taunts.

Scout pets should snare, mage pets root.

Healer pets....yes summoners have pets that heal.....should heal.  The AI on healing pets is terrible and shouldn't be that hard to fix.

A few small fixes should make summoners a playable PVP class without nerfing anybody else. SMILEY

Now if only guardians as a solo class were as easy to fix. SMILEY

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Old 01-02-2008, 10:14 AM   #19
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Izzypop wrote:

When unengaged from PVE/PVP combat establish a leash for the pet.  Establish a maximum distance limit a pet ca nget from it's owner and when the pet hits that limit it resets/teleports back to the owner.

HOW MANY TIMES SHOULD WE ASK FOR THIS UNTIL THIS IS FINALLY IMPLEMENTED?!!
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:17 AM   #20
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Feel my pain, I am illusionist and we don't get even get Call Servant like summoners do.

Sometimes, I have to wait my pet for over a minute.In fact, usually it is faster for me to kill it and recast/rebuff new one (15-20 sec).

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Old 01-02-2008, 01:40 PM   #21
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I think Izzy stated it best when he said this is fixing two classes and doesn't involve nerfing anyone else. You would think when you have complaints from both sides of the fence; maybe the developers would think about looking into it. Geez, it is bad enough that even non-summoners are asking for SOE to fix the classes.
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