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Old 10-20-2015, 01:53 AM   #1
Caith

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Much like scouts, fighters have had a full overhaul of the damage, buffs and debuffs for many of their abilities in Terrors of Thalumbra.

Please post any fighter specific questions, feedback or bugs here.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:24 PM   #2
Boli

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it appears all fighter stuff is boosted by a flat 15% regardless of type

Although "useless" and "outdated" abilities jst get the flat boost without change. e.g. Crusade still a tiny wis/resist buff and heretics destruction moves from 15% to 17.3% CB/POT so don't expect anything different

amusingly on many Spells they now say things like 114% chance to cast xxxx when you use the ability.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:40 PM   #3
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Yup, we're catching those and correcting them as we come across them. Please report specific abilities that you notice doing so.
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:45 PM   #4
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its pretty much any "percent chance" is boosted by 15% as well - loathe as I am to mention it stuff like pally myth now has DR of 11.5% Devout sacrament now reduces damage by 40.25% instead of 35%

I mean I like all these boosts but would prefer a more structured approach to class balancing and fighter DPS Smile
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Old 10-20-2015, 09:49 PM   #5
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Its the same thing with Shadowknights Furor, its 115% chance to ripost now lol
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Old 10-21-2015, 07:19 AM   #6
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I could not see any changes to the paladin class up to now, what outdated skills and AA abilities, and regards their expansion? So this is probably not yet active on the beta server?

abilities:
- "Crusade" as already mentioned of Boli, partly outdated
- "Demonstration of Faith" in height completely outdated
- "Divine Inspiration" in height outdated
- "Devout Sacrament" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated
- "Lay on Hands" short buff component in the amount or type partly completely outdated
- "Prayer of Healing" short buff component in the amount or type completely outdated

AA abilities and enhancements:
- "Combat Leadership" in height completely outdated
- "Aura of Leadership" in height completely outdated
- "Battle Leadership" in height outdated, a value of 350 to 450 or so would currently
- "Fervor of Faith" in height outdated
- "Legionnaire's Mercy" in height completely outdated
- "Enhance: Crusade" in type completely outdated
- "Blessed Warding" in height completely outdated
- "Battle Hardening" in height or type completely outdated
- "Resilence" in height outdated
- "Legionnairs Focus" in height completely outdated
- "Cavaliers Call" in height completely outdated

epic buff:
- "Epic Repercussions: Marr's Favor" included damage proc in height and hit rate completely outdated
- "Epic Repercussions: Holy Avenger" the term with 10 seconds too short for effective action, outdated

That would be something so I can think on the fly. Are we here so perhaps finally overhauls of this skills and AA points see, Caith?
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:12 AM   #7
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A few more of my own thoughts: I understand all that is on the servers right now is a flat 15% boost but we are trying to push this more in the direction of numerous tweaks rather than a flat increase. (although the flat increase is welcome runnign through EVERY classes AA/spells and tweaking will make a lot of people very very happy)

* Wisdom value is low (~120 I think enhanced when priests have average of 6-10k each.
* Resist value laughable (~300 when resists are close to 200k)
* Increase heal is a potency buff - so 5% heal potency when people are/will be pushing 2000%

Overall not worth casting, even the fact its raid wide does not boost it up.

I presume you mean scope/power rather than height -even massively increased in potency its only going to be a 50k ward on a 2million health slow to cast and expired before the recovery time has even finished.

This should be changed to a defensive buff (with a regenerating ward component)

It has always been a very poor proc; the massive increase to dps over the last few years has just made it into laughable. the only enhancements have been to "make it proc more" - changing it to a 100% proc (perhaps with a small hate componant if caster) would not be game breaking but actually make the pally feel good about actually having this ability.

I presume you are talking about the health boost to the paladin/group once cast - in this I agree for Lay on Hands and Devout Sacramanet it should be maxhealth% rather than 1k extra health on a 2M healthpool

As far as Prayer of Healing is concerned I think the recast is too short - right now enhanced (through focus and AA) its 19% max health every 9 (4.5) seconds. (there are already complaints in pvp) I say you change this line completely to a Heal over time which gives a nice buff when up. e.g. "increase healing received by 5%"

As for the amount? Take the druid group HoT - make it recast 60s (duration 20s) and the amount should be 10% of the value of a real druid heal BUT with potency / crits allowed. (Fury group HoT 752 - 920 / 2seconds | Paladin group HoT 75-92 / 4seconds)


All AA which grant crit chance should be changed to give higher bonuses to generate legendary/mythical crits OR just be changed to a flat out increase final combat art and/or spell damage boost

Also:
- Concenter (focus, really ?)
- Knight's Leadership (32 AA to get 8% group potency and useful for one fight an expansion fear immune - just make fear immune the first AA instead of Concenter and be done with it)
- Enhance Intercept: mentioned many times but it reduces recast (useless) and adds a 10% heal when it expires naturally (so when it was never triggered?) - completly useless.

and then the paladin tree is full of AA which enhance the reuse of spells - used to be handy to cap out reuse but now all useless - its actually a challenge to pick from this tree and not waste any AA. (enhance faith strike and enhance crusade count as wasted here)


I honestly forgot about the holy avenger (not been on my hotbar in years) but the buff itself whilst not perfect is one of the few which scales as its 25% of our Strength. the damage is pathetic... but then sadly all mythical spell buff damage is :/

Likewise I've only added my thoughts to Paladin as an example here but there are a slew of broken/useless and AA which have been completely outstripped by gear upgrades across all classes.

Going through and changing/tweaking these abilities/AA/Prestige so they scale where appropriate across EVERY class will go a long way to curry favor with the entire community.

a perfect example is:

Enhance: Lay on Hands: improves reuse speed by 12seconds | Reduces Power cost by 3%
How to make this a viable choice would be: "at 5 ranks the power cost is removed entirely - this AA does not work in pvp combat"
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:20 AM   #8
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sorry... if like most you went tl;dr. I'll end with this:

There are a lot of broken/outdated/laughably small boosts granted to all classes spells/AA

As a community we can pretty know every ability/aa which falls under this.. and most likely up to 10 suggestions to how to fix each one raging from "overpowered" to "too stressful on servers" to "small tweaks which make them viable.

please review for all classes (although paladins seem especially effected) and use us.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:49 PM   #9
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The above is a nice improvement to help our scout brothers.

15% boost for fighters is not enough. As it is playing a Guardian I need 2, if not 3 hate transfers to try to hold agro. This will put some of the lower DPS generating fighters event more behind the 8 ball. I want to stop hearing "I need to hold back because I (we) are taking hate from the tank" in raids/groups.

Tanks need at least 30% if not more just so we can keep up with everyone else. Speaking for our Pally brothers they need 40-50%.
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:27 PM   #10
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@holyduke I don't know as a guard I am a raid MT and able to group with dps doing 30mil dps and have no issues holding hate. in raid the only time I lose agro is when another tank is using positionals and that's really just for large groups of trash pulls. Now that's not to say I wouldn't be against a 30% lol but I don't think that its needed for the reasons your saying. I think instead of an additional % boost, individual abilities/spells/CAs need to be looked at for better functionality. But that's just my opinion.
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Old 10-22-2015, 05:54 AM   #11
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@Boli
Thank Boli, for the deeper explanation of my words, and you're right, it affects most classes, not just the Paladins, I have had the experience, you should always speak only for their own class, so as not to annoy the players of other classes.

As for the AA points to shorten the reuse und castspeed of skills of all classes, I can only agree, they are a waste, because today everyone 100% reuse and 100% castspeed achieved solely by his Gear.

As for improvements of mana consumption, they are also irrelevant in most skills in today's mana.

There is now at least the third addon where we hope this everything, due to the long-term changes in the game mechanics, write / write together with justifications, etc., and a processing to improve, maybe it will work out eventually.
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Old 10-22-2015, 08:00 AM   #12
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Any change on mit and resist curve?
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:14 PM   #13
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I've always wanted fighter combat art damage to be based on a % of the fighters max hp. So the higher your max hp the more damage your cas will do
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:27 AM   #14
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When messing around I had a horrifying thought. the 15% compared to the 30% scout bonus might have a lot to do with the fighter offensive stance! (the potency boost could be significant)

I'll now like to make this clear fighter DPS should be balanced from under the DEFENSIVE stance... the offensive should give a boost yes... but not as much as it gives currently

The only bonuses the offensive stands should give is to if the fighter is fighting from the flank or rear.

personally I would remove the offensive stance entirely (put STR and +weaponskill on defensive) but give a boost to combat arts if fighting from the rear/flank.... and now consider fighter DPS to be in the "defensive" stance only and adjust accordingly.

remember overhealing and over taunting is *not* fun.
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Old 10-23-2015, 12:32 AM   #15
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Scout have 30% bonus, but they nerf the melee and put a cap on cb and wdb.


But, atm is hard to comment without play our main.
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:02 AM   #16
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Technically, the only 'nerf' to melee are those two caps, which only effect those that can reach them. And said 'nerf' effects all classes that melee.
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Old 10-26-2015, 11:49 AM   #17
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it seems very obvious they dont have the manpower to do anything substancial...
15% to all/most numbers in your spells! thats the most band-aid thing i have ever seen...
all "class balancing" this xpacwill be done through gear and it got higher potential than usual to be a huge clusterf***
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:11 PM   #18
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New weapon have lower rating, and on cloak/belt now share The weapon/magical skill with The other item.


Talking about weapon skill... In aom dev have put skill on all belt/cloak (and remove some versione from The loot table).
This little change was a very big help for all tank, a big help for The hit rating... Now we will lose 600/700 skill.. I just hope The new mob will have lower resist.
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:48 PM   #19
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Viewing the spells really showcases it was just done as a database script sadly as there are improvements in places there really shouldn't be - below is a "fairer" list I just wrote off the top of my head using the 15% boost as a guide:

Holy Ground
* Increased damage by 100%
* Forced Following AA now increases duration by 3 seconds per rank and the final rank adds an additional 2 hate positions.

Faith Strike
* Increases damage by 15%

Power Cleave
* Increases damage by 15%

Penitent Kick
* Increases damage by 15%

Divine Inspiration
Focus: Divine Inspiration & Enhance: Divine Inspiration now increase damage of the ability by 25% instead of increasing trigger chance.

Blessed Weapon now triggers every time but off autoattacks only
Enhance: Blessed Weapon increases damage added by 25%

Divine Vengeance
* Increases damage by 15%

Heroic Dash
* Increases threat amount by 200%

Decree
* Decreases base casting time to 0.5s

Holy Strike
* Increases damage by 15%

Zelous Smite
* Decreases base casting time to 0.5s


Yes, I purposefully missed out all the paladin blue spells and all their high damage attacks - but it is more focused approach concentrating on their directed single target attacks as well as reducing the annoyingly long cast times of the encounter abilities (a problem for all classes sadly :/)

The class still needs a lot more tweaking and the above is actually a less powerful boost than what is currently on beta - but in many ways I would actually prefer it.

in fact I'm sure every fighter class could shove up a dozen ideas on tweaking their damage output in the same line
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Old 10-26-2015, 05:50 PM   #20
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Big potency bug. I finally got my tank copied over but when he has his AA spec on his pot drops to 300 cap and it reflects in my abilities. when I remove all my AA and commit my pot returns to around what I should be minus the prestige and AA stuffs. Have had the time to tinker with it to find out what makes it bug out yet but thought I would give a heads up.
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Old 10-27-2015, 08:30 AM   #21
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the pot bug is connected to the wepon of the mind prestige skill (new prestige tree)
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:36 AM   #22
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Not sure about this. Giving easy fixes such as hate xfers, and boosting dps of tanks so they rival scouts is usually just a patch over to make it so you don't have to try as a tank. A tank should be able to hold hate without all that. Sometimes, and I don't mean this to offend, but sometimes someone is just way more talented at dps than you are at being a tank, or more geared by far, or whatever...

And it can be VERY tough for the average joe to judge. In my opinion even Amends should be nerfed, and then give paladins other ways to taunt or boost their hate.

I have no idea about the guardian, but be careful with advice like this. I don't like flat transfers. I prefer to group with tanks that can actually output hate because they are talented at playing tank...not because they were GIVEN hate by someone else that is talented at DPS.

A guardian that goes through a zone only generating x amount of hate through dps and taunts on their own should NOT hold aggro, they should lose it, and then go back to the drawing board on playing their toon better.

That said, I can't speak on whether the guardian is capable of generating enough hate. I hear others saying that yes, they are.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:10 AM   #23
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Amends as it is only offers the paladin the option of choosing their transfer or using a transfer when one is not available; whilst this may offer a better chance of holding agro in a odd-group setting it by no means guaranteed perfect agro control. *because* paladins are given amends means our active agro skills are much lower than all the other tanks; In a fully hate speced/transfered group amends is near useless meaning effectively the paladin will generate half the hate of any other tank

It is less a matter of a lower talented person "riding the more talented coat-tails" more the paladin has to completely rely on their transfer to be good at their job - spiking DPS at the right time engaging correctly and staying alive - so it doesn't matter if the paladin is the "best tank in the world"; with a bad amends they are fighting a loosing battle before things even start.

I think *every* tank should have *some* sort of hate reducing or transferring aspect for their group (group buff/temp procing de-taunts/depositionals will help "dodgy" group setups for other tanks without impacting raiding too much) but at the same time "active hate" (dealing DPS and using taunts) should be prioritized first.

And I really hope it comes in the form of more DPS (note NOT scout level DPS) as fun fact: over taunting something is not fun.

Speaking as a paladin it is getting annoying being out parsed by templars and grinning over every afk break as you didn't bounce along the bottom of the parse window.
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Old 10-28-2015, 03:22 PM   #24
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I don't think it is perfect either. It does rely too much on another player. I dislike hate xfer in general, and what you are saying is just another reason to dislike it as a tool. ESPECIALLY to the amount that amends does. Players should rely on their own ability is the gist of what I'm trying to say. Overall group hate reduction and stuff, and transfers, those can easily be valid part of mechanics so that we don't have to deal with tanks outparsing actual dps classes, but I think group hate reduction is MORE important than xfer.

Why? Raid viability. xfer can be dangerous and cause aggro to go to someone it shouldn't. Meanwhile a group reduction buff can make it so that a group might even want a tank.

I agree it should come in the form of dps also for raid viability, but as you are saying they need to be careful not to make tanks as much dps as actual dps classes. I don't have a problem with healers being able to damage a little bit, personally, though, if that is their aa and focus. But a raid healer that is specced for heals should not be outparsing a tank class that is not main tanking and is in a full dps spec. I don't mind a raid healer SPECCED for dps beating a tank class specced for aggro though.

If the mechanics were perfect, that is the type of thing you'd see.
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:31 PM   #25
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are taunts getting a revamp too? with Scout CAs going up 30% am wondering how tough it will be to hold agro if tank CAs only go up 15%

Hope for a 30% inc to taunts to off set this added DPS the rats are going to do hehe
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:52 PM   #26
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or flurry and DC in belt cloack XD with mit and block, of course.
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:12 PM   #27
Genghes

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Well the scout damage increase will help tank agro from a swash/sin transfer, but I wouldn't mind seeing taunt amount of dps increase. However for a tank, as our stats increase our threat from taunts will increase with current mechanics
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:14 PM   #28
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Just noticed that Paladins Demonstration of Faith wont take potency into account if you cast it while having subtle strikes active.
Re-checked it on live, where it is the same - only base value of ward applies.

Broken, it seems.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:25 PM   #29
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It would be nice to see two things...
1. Swash and Sin threat transfers should include a small amount of baseline hate and aggression.
2. Tank hate mod that converts into something productive over 100%. Block chance, avoidance, riposte chance or damage, positional proc chance or ? Anything would be good.
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Old 10-31-2015, 06:14 AM   #30
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Has anyone found any brawler weapons to replace the FKoS shiny staff yet?
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